tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post7510784757313103906..comments2024-03-28T07:15:19.938-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis muses: Never Tell the Deity How It Simply HAS to BeNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-21878406512210893052014-01-07T14:57:03.861-08:002014-01-07T14:57:03.861-08:00Anonymous said...
Corky, might there be another te... Anonymous said...<br /><i>Corky, might there be another temple built, a third, the one where the antichrist conducts the abomination of desolation that is being described in Matt 24?</i><br /><br />And pigs might fly...but, no. It's plain that Jesus is talking about the same temple they are looking at (Matt. 24:1-2)Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-76230554313059722182014-01-07T05:35:39.665-08:002014-01-07T05:35:39.665-08:00Corky, might there be another temple built, a thir...Corky, might there be another temple built, a third, the one where the antichrist conducts the abomination of desolation that is being described in Matt 24?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18793704247674341072014-01-05T08:51:58.744-08:002014-01-05T08:51:58.744-08:00Red,
This Hulme situation is in many ways similar...Red,<br /><br />This Hulme situation is in many ways similar to what happened in WCG when the changes took place, only it does have its own complexities. <br /><br />David Hulme, by the reports, is acting very much the guilt-tripping authoritarian, as have his role models from the past. Certainly it should be well known at this point that applying authoritarianism to changes or reforms works against the long-developed consciences of the members. <br /><br />My sympathies would be with the little people who are being hurt to the point that their whole world appears to be collapsing. We know that most of them will segue into yet another splinter group, and I do have mixed feelings about the probability of British Israelism being one of the core beliefs of that new splinter, which is why it is nearly impossible to take sides. You have set an example of critiquing individual examples of evil, deceit, and hurt rather than taking sides, and that appears to be the only logical way to respond to this crisis. <br /><br />The good news is that each time this sort of thing happens, there will be some who decide to go back to the concept of proving all things, only this time they will do it on their own, reaching their own conclusions rather than the ones towards which someone is manipulating them. We are well into the new millennium, and so many excellent resources are just a mouse click away.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-37350300265578061772014-01-05T08:51:13.093-08:002014-01-05T08:51:13.093-08:00Yes, Redfox, there is only one playbook and everyo...Yes, Redfox, there is only one playbook and everyone uses it.<br /><br />No minister or member is allowed to have an opinion or a thought unless the apostle has given it to them. Anyone who dares to have an opinion or thought, and then proceeds to criticize the apostle is a dissident, is "rebelling against god" and is "sowing division," even if they're just reminding the apostle what it says in the bible (because apparently he forgot.) Apostles don't forget. Apostles have the keys to the kingdom. (Yes, all of them have a duplicate set). Whatever they bind on earth is automatically bound in heaven, so god backs them up 100% even if they're wrong.<br /><br />I would hate to be a COG minister. You know it's only a matter of time before the apostle goes off the rails. Some people will tell you that you answer to a "higher authority" (god). But the apostle will never say that. Does god sign your paychecks? No, the apostle does. Does the apostle pay you to have an opinion? No. Does the apostle pay you to go over his head, citing a "higher authority"? No. Does the apostle pay you to criticize him? NO! I don't know who ministers think they pray to, because there's no room in this logic for it to be anyone but the apostle. The only way I could possibly be a COG minister was if I was totally corrupt, because otherwise I would live in a state of crisis of conscience.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6053632624092265972014-01-05T01:48:57.278-08:002014-01-05T01:48:57.278-08:00Byker Bob,
I have read that these COG-AIC dissent...Byker Bob,<br /><br />I have read that these COG-AIC dissenters do seem to believe in Britsh-Israelism. It is well known that idea is complete nonsense.<br /><br />However I feel very sorry for them because it is clear to me that they have been severely scammed by Hulme. He tells them he is the one God has chosen to lead them, he tells them the church is to deliver a warning message to the world, and he does not do it. He does not deliver. But he expects them to pay their tithes and if they complain, he and his collaborators claim said members are causing division and disfellowship them.<br /><br />I think these dissenters must be very brave to stand up to Hulme, knowing they could very well be disfellowshipped and shunned by COG-AIC members. Already I have heard at least one dissenter mention how one Hulmite minister has claimed that the dissenters are cursed by God and that God is displeased with the dissenters.<br /><br />That is why I wish to promote what little I have seen in the hope that there will be a greater understanding of this current schism. I hope that people will have a clearer understanding of the situation.Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-5927349843869034082014-01-05T01:42:11.539-08:002014-01-05T01:42:11.539-08:00I just read Eric Keefer's sermon defending Hul...I just read Eric Keefer's sermon defending Hulme. <br /><br />http://silenced.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Unity-And-Division-Transcript.pdf<br /><br />Here is what he had to say.<br /><br />"If a member demands to have a say in an area that he or she has not been given, then that member is rebelling against the body." (p. 30.)<br /><br />"the bottom line is if God has not placed us in a position to change something within the body, then we have no business demanding our way." (p. 31.)<br /><br />He then said those who "cause division" are liable to being disfellowshipped.<br /><br />So that is how Hulme's collaborators appear to view the mass dissent within COG-AIC.Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17720189207777529052014-01-04T17:38:13.608-08:002014-01-04T17:38:13.608-08:00Anonymous said...
"In that generation" m... Anonymous said...<br /><i>"In that generation" may mean in the generation that experiences what is described. IOW, the generation that experiences the great tribulation will see the return of Jesus</i><br /><br />According to the context, it's the generation that saw the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. It's simply that everything that was predicted to happen after that destruction, including the return of Jesus, didn't happen.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-55342857519414266532014-01-04T08:31:08.532-08:002014-01-04T08:31:08.532-08:00Red, I am sure that, like myself, you read the com...Red, I am sure that, like myself, you read the comments which some of the ex-Hulme ministry made with regard to the "doctrine" of British Israelism. It is obvious from the tone that they consider it to be God's truth, the key to their entire world's view, identity as to who they are, and as a result, it becomes a concept that they simply could not change. It is obvious that they have never considered, or read materials which are readily available, contemporary, and from the opposite point of view. <br /><br />This is very insightful as to the mindset. However, what we observed last summer with the Pack fiasco, was that some of the RCG stalwarts began reading "outsider" materials just to obtain news as to what was going on in their own churches. Any news which they could access from RCG was carefully managed, metered, and spun, and these folks wanted more. They know that people who are leaving the various groups do use our little network of "underground" blogs to present their side or take, and frequently share the information that their organizations suppress or deny.<br /><br />The thing is, once people begin reading and sharing, it is only human nature to take an expansive approach. Most of the visitors won't just restrict themselves to their own set of specifics, though that is what they may come here to learn about initially. They will also read much of the research and news which is presented on other topics. That's why I am so glad to see that the blog owners often link to one another, even in cases where one blog may be the philosophical polar opposite of another. <br /><br />This is one of those bombshell situations, and in a way, we are the EMTs, the first responders, figuratively running towards the disaster to assist the victims!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86263689831571944112014-01-04T05:59:25.957-08:002014-01-04T05:59:25.957-08:00"In that generation" may mean in the gen..."In that generation" may mean in the generation that experiences what is described. IOW, the generation that experiences the great tribulation will see the return of Jesus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-35757359450262653522014-01-03T22:03:40.112-08:002014-01-03T22:03:40.112-08:00Regarding the Hulmite schism:
Why is Bill Hendric...Regarding the Hulmite schism:<br /><br />Why is Bill Hendricks being forced to resign from Hulme's COG-AIC? Because he tried to comfort an old woman. This is just so bizarre and weird.<br /><br />http://silenced.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Bill-Hendricks_COG-aIC-resignation.pdf<br /><br />"Now to address my “unwise actions”, as you put it, of last Sabbath which led you to ask for my resignation.<br /><br />"I know that there are members that have been watching me and reporting back to you of everything I say and do. I have not tried to hide anything. Last Sabbath I made it a point to talk to Mrs. Edison. She had been ill the Sabbath before and I had not been able to see her for two weeks. She made the statement to me that she didn’t know what she would do if (name omitted) were to be kicked out or leave the church. Then she said “I’d just die if that happened!” I told her that she didn’t need to worry about it. He wouldn’t just leave us. I then told her that “I think something will happen to clear all this up and things will turn around soon, maybe even this week”. According to you that was an “unwise” thing for me to do. Really?"<br /><br />What a tragedy Hulme is inflicting upon the members because of his autocratic ways.Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-68851793329496236652014-01-03T16:31:52.467-08:002014-01-03T16:31:52.467-08:00Silenced has just released the most amazing post r...Silenced has just released the most amazing post regarding the current schism among the Hulmites.<br /><br />http://silenced.co/2014/01/hulmes-group-implodes/<br /><br />It also included links to several documents concerning the schism.<br /><br />One dissenting minister said this about Hulme's magazine, Vision:<br /><br />"In August I mentioned to you that the fruit of this organization is bad. Our membership has declined, not grown. After 15 years and an estimated expense for Vision of $3+ million dollars for salaries, advertising, publishing, design, shipping, PR, video, travel and whatever, there has been no fruit from Vision or the Vision website. The only new members, other than children of members, have come because of a personal relationship with a member—not because of Vision."<br /><br />(http://silenced.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/MrHulmeConferenceNotice.pdf, p. 2.)<br /><br />One pro-Hulme minister claims everything was fine and peaceful and just great as soon as November 1.<br /><br />"Please consider something with me for a moment<br />1. At the first of November most of us (perhaps all of us?) had no clue there were any<br />problems<br />2. How is it, in the span of less than a couple months, entire congregations were very aware<br />and completely on board with their pastor who has such strong disagreements with Mr.<br />Hulme?<br />3. This level of dissent does not occur overnight. Let me be frank and speak plainly: most of<br />the Phoenix congregation – a congregation I once pastored, with people I dearly love – are<br />now aggressive against Mr. Hulme. How did that happen so quickly, when you didn’t even<br />know there was an issue? Think about that.<br />4. When I was the pastor, there were no indications of this kind of disagreement." <br /><br />(http://silenced.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Current-Crisis-2-Notes.pdf, p. 6.)Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-27603873825037662912014-01-03T13:10:14.105-08:002014-01-03T13:10:14.105-08:00It would be nice if the current sheep believed us ...It would be nice if the current sheep believed us when we tried to tell them that their apostles and non-prophets who falsely prophesy are just playing with mudpies, but somehow they just can't manage to fathom that!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-70497490632878294392014-01-03T13:07:01.069-08:002014-01-03T13:07:01.069-08:00Deuteronomy 20: (What God Meant Version WGMV)
20 ...Deuteronomy 20: (What God Meant Version WGMV)<br /><br />20 <i>But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall be fined up to $250,000, sentenced to six months in prison, or both. Apostles are specifically exempt.</i><br /><br />20.1 <i>And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the prophet from the apostle?</i><br /><br />20.2 <i>When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, he must say, "I am a prophet." Also he will wear robes, a beard, a silly hat, and one of the nine rings given to the race of men. All criteria must be met, or else he's an apostle.</i><br /><br />21 <i>And if thou say in thine heart, Okay, prophet, apostle, whatever, but how shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?</i><br /><br />22 <i>When a prophet or an apostle speaketh in the name of the Lord, excluding matters of the "timing" being "a little off," because the Lord reserves the right to change his mind about "timing" or to be late, if the thing follows not, nor comes to pass AFTER you've given him THREE chances to get the "timing" right, okay, then and only then shall you say in your heart, Okay, for sure now, THIS is something which the Lord definitely hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.</i><br /><br />I think we've found the source of the confusion. Dave's using the WGMV. Why didn't he just say that? We would all have understood a lot easier.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-7954387085000734362014-01-03T11:14:06.047-08:002014-01-03T11:14:06.047-08:00Well, at least Jesus knew when his return and the ...Well, at least Jesus knew when his return and the sign of the end of the world would be...in "this generation" of 2,000 years ago - that was IT!<br /><br />Of course, there <i>are</i> some problems with the mathematics of that time. 30 AD is thought to be the year Jesus died (by the more reasonable scholars), the problem is; John the Baptist died first and his death was in 37 AD. Jesus could not then have spent 3 1/2 years preaching the gospel after John (fulfilling the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel) before his own death as that would have been 40-41 AD and Pilate wouldn't have been there to crucify him.<br /><br />But wait, there's more: Paul converted to Christianity at least 17 years before he went to Jerusalem for the gentile circumcision conference (Gal. 1:18, 2:1) which was some years before the famine that happened in 44 AD. But, let's say it was the same year and subtract 17 from 44 and you get 27 AD as the year that Paul converted to Christianity. Hmmmm, that's before Jesus even died - by any reckoning, isn't it?<br /><br />He who thinks these numbers can be reconciled and made to make sense is merely deluding themselves. Yet, here we have Dave Pack who thinks he knows something pertaining to today in an obscure 'prophecy' in Haggai. Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.com