tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post827602339169642151..comments2024-03-28T22:34:16.707-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dave Pack: COG Savior - Salvation Is Only Available Though HimNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-56292451507998041562012-07-16T19:49:29.769-07:002012-07-16T19:49:29.769-07:00Earlier comment: "Calling his latest church ...Earlier comment: "Calling his latest church the Living Church of God rather than the Church of the Living God is just another indication of Roderick C. Meredith's subtly messed up mind and his desire to be number one."<br />This is not entirely accurate. While there is little doubt that egomaniacal RCM has a messed up mind, he very much wanted the name to be Church of the Living God, but that name was unavailable, so he chose Living Church of God. I find this to be more appropriate, anyway. "You have a name that you are Living, but are dead." - anon 43Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-91813600213068227642012-07-16T18:00:45.671-07:002012-07-16T18:00:45.671-07:00To the anonymous poster who suggested more sharing...To the anonymous poster who suggested more sharing: You must be a newbie here. You have to be judicious about sharing any of the blessings of the Christian life on forums. It's true that some folks will be inspired and rejoice over such sharing, but it also often opens the door for others to mock and blaspheme. Like a musician, I enjoy playing in venues where you get positive, inspiring feedback.<br /><br />To whomever it was that suggested alternative topical studies to circumcision, I think that we just went over your head, spiritually speaking. In ancient Israel, you practically weren't able to even use the bathroom if you were male and were not circumcised! You certainly were not allowed in the temple, weren't allowed to keep the sabbath with the Israelites, or the Feasts and Holy Days, or be observant in any other fashion. It was the pre-linchpin of the entire Mosaic covenant. When James declared that physical circumcision was not to be required of the Gentiles, just about all of the Old Covenant went down with his edict.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-11699607821044160732012-07-16T09:05:20.178-07:002012-07-16T09:05:20.178-07:00Anonymous M.T.Incisions replied to BB with this:
...Anonymous M.T.Incisions replied to BB with this:<br /><br />"Anonymous [[BB]] said... <br />"My advice to anyone still caught up in this legalism is to do a topical study on circumcision, and then read the edict presented by James following the first Jerusalem council. That will provide the best understanding of what the New Covenant does or does not embody that I've ever found." <br /><br /><br />Funny, I'd have not picked that topic to show me the best understanding of the New Covenant and legalism. Sabbath, Holydays, meats, commandments, etc but this would not have crossed my mind as the best topic to show me anything about this. <br /><br />I had a friend who actually circumcised elephants for the circus. He complained the pay was bad, but the tips were big. Oh well.....<br /><br />M.T.Incisions<br /> <br />July 14, 2012 3:30 PM<br />******<br />BB/M.T. Incisions FWIIW, your inspiring conversation reminded me of an event in my life over several decades ago.<br /><br />My wife and I asked a doctor, and member of WCG at the time, to circumcise our son on the eighth day after his birth.<br /><br />It was not a fun experience for us, the parents, but I guess it was better than using flint, or whatever rock, stones, and knives were used back in the days of the likes of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac. My son, of course, thankfully, recalls nothing of the event, but there was a lot of crying and screaming going on...<br /><br />Anyway, upon completion of "the work" we offered to pay the doctor some money for the job done. To which he just said: "No, thank you! I just collect the tips."<br /><br />As said above...FWIIW...so much for an eighth day experience!<br /><br />JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-46925365761266036322012-07-16T08:45:14.824-07:002012-07-16T08:45:14.824-07:00Richard said...
@Anonymous John: Paul DOES refer ...Richard said... <br />@Anonymous John: Paul DOES refer to “the gospel of your salvation” in Ephesians 1:13.<br /><br />But grab a Strong's Concordance (or search the Blue Letter Bible site) and you'll find "the gospel of the Kingdom" is never mentioned by Paul.<br /><br />The KJV New Testament refers to a "gospel of Christ" (or words to that effect) 15 times - and a "gospel of the Kingdom of God" 4 times.<br /><br />Just because you appeal to Herbert Armstrong doesn't mean the Bible backs it up.<br /> <br />July 14, 2012 12:27 PM"<br />******<br />Richard, yes, Paul does refer to a "gospel of your salvation," but he also wrote about the "gospel of peace!"<br /><br />Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"<br /><br />Ephesians 6:15 "And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;"<br /> <br />So what? What means it? The gospel is about many things.<br /><br />You concluded with writing: "...Just because you appeal to Herbert Armstrong doesn't mean the Bible backs it up..."<br /><br />Where did that comment come from? I saw no appeal to Armstrong in my post. Did you have someone's else's post in mind when you wrote that? If not, please explain how you "see" that "appeal to Herbert Armstrong."<br /><br />Thanks, in advance...<br /><br />JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-27910946122822142282012-07-16T07:49:46.418-07:002012-07-16T07:49:46.418-07:00Dear Anon,
Your support of wholesale genocide is ...Dear Anon,<br /><br />Your support of wholesale genocide is sickening. Like many Christians and Muslims, you demonstrate an appalling lack of basic morality, especially in your support of Noah's Flood, in which countless unborn children were murdered- God's Own Mass Abortion.<br /><br />Do not come near me, or my family. Not all of us Evilutionists are liberals who abhor guns. I suggest you seek counseling.<br /><br />Paul R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-72243161369131837712012-07-15T21:49:58.303-07:002012-07-15T21:49:58.303-07:00Paul R. said...
"Do you support genocide?&qu...<i>Paul R. said...<br /><br />"Do you support genocide?"</i><br /><br /><br />There are many stories in the Bible about people being put to death (executed) for doing evil. Sometimes many people were put to death at once. There was no safety in numbers for the wicked. Below are just a few brief examples.<br /><br /><b>THE FLOOD</b><br /><br />"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time" (Genesis 6:5, NIV).<br /><br />"Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people of the earth had corrupted their ways. So God said to Noah, 'I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them'" (Genesis 6:11-13, NIV).<br /><br />"Only Noah was left and those with him in the ark" (Genesis 7:23, NIV).<br /><br />Worldwide sin brought worldwide death.<br /><br /><b>OTHER EXAMPLES</b><br /><br /><b>Sodom and Gomorrah</b> <br /><br />"Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them'" (Genesis 19:4-5, NIV).<br /><br />"Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah--from the LORD out of the heavens" (Genesis 19:24, NIV).<br /><br />If such people ever surrounded my place and wanted me to come out and play, I'd hope God would do something similar today.<br /><br /><b>The people in the land of Canaan</b> <br /><br />"When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 18:9-13, NIV).<br /><br /><b>THE FUTURE</b><br /><br />"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:40-42, NIV).<br /><br /><b>CONCLUSION</b><br /><br />Rather than whine stupidly about how God executes the worst perverts around, people would be well advised not to be one themselves.<br /><br /><br /><br />P.S. I know an evolutionist who always talks ignorantly and stupidly about "genocide" in the Bible. I noticed that at election time he rushed off to vote in favor of abortion. In his riding there was a famous anti-abortion candidate that he despised, never stopped bad-mouthing and name-calling, and just had to vote against.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12201615152886120812012-07-15T17:12:21.989-07:002012-07-15T17:12:21.989-07:00More Irony:
Anonymous said...
'Paul Ray sa...More Irony:<br /><br /><br /> Anonymous said...<br /><br />'Paul Ray said...'<br /><br /><br />Paul R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3324690586659937952012-07-15T17:07:18.567-07:002012-07-15T17:07:18.567-07:00"Can you say "utterly depraved psychopat..."Can you say "utterly depraved psychopaths"?"<br /><br />Do you support genocide? <br /><br /><br />Paul R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-32022006567736251422012-07-15T07:45:41.485-07:002012-07-15T07:45:41.485-07:00Yikes!
Is someone actually suggesting that someon...Yikes!<br /><br />Is someone actually suggesting that someone who had ham and eggs for breakfast is an "utterly depraved psychopath"?!<br /><br />I can't decide who's nuttier- the armstrongites, or the parade of kooky "Liars for Jesus" on the TBN and Daystar Christian TV networks.<br /><br />NormAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79812536910013489782012-07-14T22:29:13.628-07:002012-07-14T22:29:13.628-07:00Paul Ray said...
"Can you say 'psychopat...<i>Paul Ray said...<br /><br />"Can you say 'psychopath?'"</i><br /><br /><br />Many Americans support such things as ham-eating, Sunday-keeping, Easter-observing, evolution, witchcraft, abortion, homosexuality, etc.<br /><br />Can you say "utterly depraved psychopaths"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79028108268224163112012-07-14T22:15:46.971-07:002012-07-14T22:15:46.971-07:00"Dave Pack is a brilliant man."
Well, ...<i>"Dave Pack is a brilliant man."</i><br /><br /><br />Well, he does appear to be some sort of financial genius. Of course, his gain will be your loss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-77871560449638806402012-07-14T21:14:54.165-07:002012-07-14T21:14:54.165-07:00"The Great Apostasy according to Roderick C. ..."The Great Apostasy according to Roderick C. Meredith is that these ham-eating, Sunday-keeping, Easter-observing so-called "Christians" are now also openly accepting some other additional unbiblical things such as witchcraft, abortion, and homosexuality."<br /><br />So America is just now starting to piss off God? Only now? So God had no problem with the whole Indian Killin' and Slavery thing? Of course not, since God/Jesus condones genocide and slavery. Can you say "psychopath?"<br /><br />Paul R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-29368868137525587922012-07-14T15:30:25.218-07:002012-07-14T15:30:25.218-07:00"My advice to anyone still caught up in this ..."My advice to anyone still caught up in this legalism is to do a topical study on circumcision, and then read the edict presented by James following the first Jerusalem council. That will provide the best understanding of what the New Covenant does or does not embody that I've ever found." <br /><br />Funny, I'd have not picked that topic to show me the best understanding of the New Covenant and legalism. Sabbath, Holydays, meats, commandments, etc but this would not have crossed my mind as the best topic to show me anything about this. <br /><br />I had a friend who actually circumcised elephants for the circus. He complained the pay was bad, but the tips were big. Oh well.....<br /><br />M.T.IncisionsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-41720105150843379762012-07-14T13:40:40.847-07:002012-07-14T13:40:40.847-07:00BB said: You'll be surprised at what happens, ...BB said: You'll be surprised at what happens, where God takes you, and the changes that happen in your attitude and in your life over a period of time.<br /> <br />BB why don’t you explain what changes you have experienced and where God has taken you? People need to see some real facts. Have you been involve in the ministry of drawing people into a fellowship with God? Are you involved building a larger congregation of believers? Are you involved in visiting the elderly in nursing homes who as struggling for survival? Are you engaged in building stronger families in the congregation you attend? What church do you attend? Are you conducting bible studies that teach the truth of the bible? We need to have something tangible not just an emotional feeling you experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-76873201707568059292012-07-14T12:49:52.782-07:002012-07-14T12:49:52.782-07:00To anonymous 8:27: Study your own Bible. Pray to...To anonymous 8:27: Study your own Bible. Pray to God. Do it consistently. Put God first in your life (I still struggle with that one, believe me!)<br /><br />You'll be surprised at what happens, where God takes you, and the changes that happen in your attitude and in your life over a period of time.<br /><br />The problem with all the WCG legalism is that it sets the legalists up above Jesus' sacrifice and grace. It also automatically produces attitudes such as those so eloquently described in Isaiah 1. <br /><br />My advice to anyone still caught up in this legalism is to do a topical study on circumcision, and then read the edict presented by James following the first Jerusalem council. That will provide the best understanding of what the New Covenant does or does not embody that I've ever found. <br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60494266923358600532012-07-14T12:27:44.203-07:002012-07-14T12:27:44.203-07:00@Anonymous John: Paul DOES refer to “the gospel o...@Anonymous John: Paul DOES refer to “the gospel of your salvation” in Ephesians 1:13.<br /><br />But grab a Strong's Concordance (or search the Blue Letter Bible site) and you'll find "the gospel of the Kingdom" is never mentioned by Paul.<br /><br />The KJV New Testament refers to a "gospel of Christ" (or words to that effect) 15 times - and a "gospel of the Kingdom of God" 4 times.<br /><br />Just because you appeal to Herbert Armstrong doesn't mean the Bible backs it up.Richardhttp://www.angelfire.com/ga4/wwwcg/index.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-51306089302855657612012-07-14T06:03:22.136-07:002012-07-14T06:03:22.136-07:00It's not Dave's emotions. It's his eg...It's not Dave's emotions. It's his ego. What you see as emotion is really his anger and frustration wanting better success than he is actually experiencing. Well, to me anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-37506763505641483562012-07-14T05:22:35.411-07:002012-07-14T05:22:35.411-07:00"Dave Pack is a brilliant man'
In his ow..."Dave Pack is a brilliant man'<br /><br />In his own mind and small circle of followers. He'd not last five minutes in the presence of trained theologians and historians.<br /><br />M.T.BrillianceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-54414316130456854522012-07-14T03:07:10.376-07:002012-07-14T03:07:10.376-07:00It seems so easy to accept that Salvation Gospel, ...It seems so easy to accept that Salvation Gospel, if there is no Book of Revelation. I almost did, but the problem was the Baptists can't explain the Book of Revelation that well. . . If the good goes to heaven and the bad goes to hell, why on earth does the Christ needs to go back for the judgment day? . . . An ex-WCG pastor turned baptist, once told a man whose wife had miscarriage that their baby is now in hell. Aren't that encouraging to be an ex-WCG?<br /><br />Dave Pack is a brilliant man. The problem? He allows his emotions to get the better of him most of the time. He's excited about the Truth of God so much, that often he ends up looking like a false prophet. BTW he's not a Prophet, he's an Apostle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-21405579466083536142012-07-13T21:53:41.913-07:002012-07-13T21:53:41.913-07:00Concerning the Winnail LCG sermon, it is absolutel...Concerning the Winnail LCG sermon, it is absolutely stunning. For LCG to openly proclaim that Baptists are actually Christians according to the Bible is the biggest change in HWA beliefs that has been seen since Tkach. This is a VERY DRAMATIC change for Meredith as he has been perhaps the #1 proponent of COG exclusivity for decades. To even imply that Baptists are Christians risks sending LCG'ers fleeing for the exits. Why they aren't is only further evidence of the hypnotic hold RCM has over them. I do not see why Meredith would permit this unless he has been reduced to a mouthpiece. Let's remember that HWA spent his entire ministry separating WCG from "false" Christianity. For LCG to reverse that teaching and accept <br />Methodists as fellow Christians is astounding.<br />-anon 43Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-64890217313956251872012-07-13T21:02:49.259-07:002012-07-13T21:02:49.259-07:00BB said: I'd advise people to sidestep the who...BB said: I'd advise people to sidestep the whole issue of teachers, just pick one (a certain Jewish carpenter!) and establish a direct connection.<br /><br />This would be good advice if people were versed well enough in what this Jewish carpenter did and why he did it and have some understanding about why and how this makes a direct connection with a God they may not understand or know. <br />It is also good to remember that not everyone has a burning bush experience. For many the best advice is to listen to that still small voice that says to do the best you can to live by what you clearly understand before making radical decisions that promote confusion. <br />Albert B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-77458604644399376752012-07-13T20:27:47.516-07:002012-07-13T20:27:47.516-07:00BB said:
" A true teacher wouldn't care...BB said:<br /><br /><br />" A true teacher wouldn't care about these things. He'd just encourage people to get to know God, and let God do the rest."<br /><br />Pardon if this seems a bit trite and swoozy. "Just get to know God..." Just how does this work?<br />In what way does one get to know God? How do you know you are getting to know the right God? How do you know if you are not just making it up and being emotional about it all? <br /><br />How do you do this? Letting God do the rest? How does one know any God is doing this? Rest of what? <br /><br />Sorry, I know you're sincere and have found what works for you but these simple phrases of certainty are packed with uncertaintyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-21047777325764890772012-07-13T20:19:15.001-07:002012-07-13T20:19:15.001-07:00A recent Living Church of God sermon by Douglas S....A recent Living Church of God sermon by Douglas S. Winnail called <i><b>Lessons From America's Apostasy</b></i> is promoting the idea that the Great Apostasy is something big happening in the nation rather than what had happened in the relatively small Worldwide Church of God culminating in Joseph W. Tkach Sr.'s January 1995 written rejection of virtually everything Herbert W. Armstrong had ever taught.<br /><br />Roderick C. Meredith is teaching his followers that the people of the United States are apostatizing by becoming <i>totally</i> degenerate in every way. There might be some point to what RCM is saying, but these people were never truly converted in the first place according to HWA's understanding.<br /><br />The Great Apostasy according to Roderick C. Meredith is that these ham-eating, Sunday-keeping, Easter-observing so-called "Christians" are now also openly accepting some other additional unbiblical things such as witchcraft, abortion, and homosexuality.<br /><br />Well, the Catholic church and its Protestant daughter churches have always rejected the laws of God and taught that they were somehow done away with and no longer in force. This is precisely why these churches are full of all their unbiblical, pagan-based teachings. This is why it is so very easy for these churches to accept any other ideas that the Bible describes as vile and wrong. They never did obey God's laws, though sometimes they want people to think that God backs up their own laws and teachings.<br /><br />Roderick C. Meredith always tries to minimize the size and significance of Herbert W. Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God and the work that they did over a 52 year period. Getting exiled to Hawaii for 6 months by Herbert W. Armstrong was not something that Roderick C. Meredith ever got over.<br /><br />Calling his latest church the <b>Living Church</b> of God rather than the Church of the <b>Living God</b> is just another indication of Roderick C. Meredith's subtly messed up mind and his desire to be number one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3044579776035876992012-07-13T17:28:34.097-07:002012-07-13T17:28:34.097-07:00Look. Pack is an idiot, but he's right about ...Look. Pack is an idiot, but he's right about some things. Rod Meredith is a ridiculous figure. He tells his supporters how he is such a conservative and is "holding fast" to Armstrong as the oldest surviving evangelist. But then he tells them to enroll in his Living University, which teaches outright liberalism in doctrine and PROVES that Rod isn't holding fast like he claims to be. And just look at the ministers Rod ordains, hires, and promotes. Liberals outnumber conservatives by maybe 10 to 1. More and more, balanced conservatives are migrating to COGWA, and unbalanced ones are moving to RCG. Mark my words, after Rod dies, Jim Meredith is going to be left as the head of a tiny little authoritarian liberal ACOG sect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-49206247267009994022012-07-13T16:41:51.964-07:002012-07-13T16:41:51.964-07:00I'd advise people to sidestep the whole issue ...I'd advise people to sidestep the whole issue of teachers, just pick one (a certain Jewish carpenter!) and establish a direct connection.<br /><br />A dimestore psychologist might opine that it would probably be the false teacher who had the seemingly obsessive-compulsive need to constantly tell people salvation was only available through him, and that he was the only one with the truth. A true teacher wouldn't care about these things. He'd just encourage people to get to know God, and let God do the rest.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.com