tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post8409173789961679434..comments2024-03-28T21:38:37.316-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: PCG's Ron Fraser Mocks DSM-5 Because The PCG Is An Authority On Mental IllnessNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-9477341259271462522013-06-07T10:29:50.237-07:002013-06-07T10:29:50.237-07:00"Ministers are not gurus, shamans, or keepers..."Ministers are not gurus, shamans, or keepers of the "urim and thummim"."<br /><br />What are they, then?<br />There are so many armstrongist groups! But, let's take the example of the armstrongist "ministers" of the United Church of God as an example:<br /><br />They lied and cheated covertly, plotting their break from the WCG while they disfellowshipped people for believing exactly what they believed, just so they could ensure their retirement monies and positions of power over dumb sheep would remain intact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86737537862384103172013-06-05T16:46:23.847-07:002013-06-05T16:46:23.847-07:00I knew someone who had been raised in old school W...I knew someone who had been raised in old school WCG. (this is not autobiographical, in case anyone is wondering. Upon arrival at AC, my friend took the standard battery of aptitude and personality tests which were administered by the faculty. He was actually shocked by the sheer level of abberance and warpedness which these tests uncovered, and spent years (unknown to the ministry or faculty) working to systematically correct them.<br /><br />Here's the take-away from his experience: Psychiatry, psychology, and the field of behavioral science in general will expose the personality disorders and mental illnesses directly caused by Armstrongism. What can the cult leaders possibly say about this other than these fields are of man, or of Satan? Their reaction to this is perfectly predictable!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-7808002716558922662013-06-05T12:56:49.426-07:002013-06-05T12:56:49.426-07:00Another case where the COG tries to act like an ex...Another case where the COG tries to act like an expert in fields that they have no history in, experience, or even practical knowledge. <br /><br />The Bible is not an encyclopedia reference book. It is a philosophical and religious book. God left the other areas of knowledge open for our exploration and discovery. <br /><br />Some few ministers have actually had true education and degrees in the field of psychology,... these include Dave Antion and Bill Jacobs. <br /><br />The UCG has made progress in realizing their own shortcoming in regards to counsel. They appear to openly suggest specific field medical advice, personal counseling , financial planning, and outside educational and vocational pursuit.<br /><br />There is still some small amount of old school element there in those regards, but it appears to be rapidly fading. <br /><br />Ministers are not gurus, shamans, or keepers of the "urim and thummim". Learn to self treat, and seek good advice from specific experts . <br /><br />Joe Moeller <br />Cody, WYAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762918803284340960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-71163838906048205092013-06-05T11:56:56.999-07:002013-06-05T11:56:56.999-07:00Ron Fraser said
"—following a century and m...Ron Fraser said<br /> "—following a century and more of foisting its trickery off on to a gullible public seeking basic answers to the most fundamental of human questions—stands largely revealed as a fraud." <br />Hmmm, that sounds familiar. <br />Psychology and psychiatry has flaws too, but at least they have many more categories to catalog dysfunction with several possible ways to treat those inflicted. Armstrongism seems to only have 'it's a government problem', 'demon posession' and prayer.<br /><br />another seekeroftruthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-42663095115596583182013-06-05T11:34:56.502-07:002013-06-05T11:34:56.502-07:00Yep!
Whether it's the RCG franchise of armstro...Yep!<br />Whether it's the RCG franchise of armstrongism, the UCG franchise of armstrongism, the PCG franchise of armstrongism, the LCG franchise of armstrongism, or many other armstrongist franchises, they're all teaching bronze age superstition and pretending it's modern, more scientific and more advanced than it really is.<br /><br />No wonder these "churches" overwhelmingly have elderly adherents who cannot shake the indoctrination they got from Herbie, and these "churches" are steadily dying in numbers.<br /><br />(Some are dying more quickly, such as the UCG suddenly and recently losing one third of it's members and half of it's ministers!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-87705829718873346692013-06-05T11:00:55.743-07:002013-06-05T11:00:55.743-07:00Any strength, practiced to extreme, becomes a weak...Any strength, practiced to extreme, becomes a weakness or liability. The people who are philosophically aligned with the teachings of HWA, in their zeal for purity, actually elliminate and sideline all too many of the things which could elevate the quality of their members' lives.<br /><br />The basic problem is, as anyone who ever read the last paragraph of a Plain Truth article knows, these organizations teach that there is no solution to virtually anything until the return of Jesus Christ. They deliberately reject solutions which could partially diminish bad impacts. For them, it's floorboard the accelerator pedal, or floor the brake pedal. The perpetuation of their numbers is based on keeping members on edge. They simply don't want anyone finding the many beneficial solutions which come from outside of their pathetic orgs. You gotta drink their Kool Aid daily, buying totally into them and their infinite wisdom or, they being the gatekeepers, will relegate you to Laodecean status, which makes you the worst pariah.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-65926627567864718022013-06-05T08:07:29.140-07:002013-06-05T08:07:29.140-07:00"the pseudo-science of psychology—following a..."<i>the pseudo-science of psychology—following a century and more of foisting its trickery off on to a gullible public seeking basic answers to the most fundamental of human questions—stands largely revealed as a fraud</i>."<br />Wait, is he talking about the COGs, or something else here? Sounds like he's talking about the COGs to me...<br /><br />The funny thing is, then he turns his own hand to psychologizing, as if he knew wtf he was talking about:<br />"<i>When I was a child, the school teacher quite correctly identified such behavior as resulting from poor parenting. Children who had been taught to sit down on command, sit still and listen to their parent at home, enacted the same habit at school. Ill-disciplined children remained ill-disciplined at home and school, with the result that they suffered from an entire lack of focus on the teacher</i>."<br />So, according to his theory of psychology, people are like dogs or robots. You program them, or train them, and if they aren't perfect little automatons, that means you didn't program them correctly. What a shit-for-brains.<br /><br />Then he follows it all up with the tired old, "we have the book with all the plain truth you'll ever need blah blah blah..." Those aren't answers, they're bronze age superstition that aren't true and don't work.<br /><br />Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-88790141792907156982013-06-05T06:37:36.813-07:002013-06-05T06:37:36.813-07:00DSM-5...
Wasnt that one of the series in the &quo...DSM-5...<br /><br />Wasnt that one of the series in the "Star Trek" franchise? <br /><br />Joe Moeller <br />Cody, WY <br /><br />PS- Set your "FRASERS" on stun! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762918803284340960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-82278652112142457392013-06-05T06:04:58.176-07:002013-06-05T06:04:58.176-07:00Charlatans? Charlatans? Really?
Your qualificatio...Charlatans? Charlatans? Really?<br /><br />Your qualifications, sir?<br /><br />Oh, I see -- you are a disciple of a dead false prophet.<br /><br />The DSM-5 is well positioned for the pharmaceutical companies, so go to a qualified psychiatrist and he can fix you right up with the appropriate meds.<br /><br />And your leader... let's see... Gerald Flurry... yes, yes... has a DUI. Well, sir, he needs to be checked in to rehab to insure his status -- to see if he is an alcoholic. It's inherited, so if his mother is an alcoholic, it's certain he is. <br /><br />And the DSM-5 certainly describes the PCG rather well in the section of "Cluster B" personality disorders. We like the part about narcissists (Mikey has his own copy of the DSM-5 and will likely comment on it in association with cults this weekend).<br /><br />Best though, we call in Dr. Paul Babiak and Dr. Robert Hare and check out the PCG leadership with the PCL (Psychopath Check List). We'd like to be excruciatingly accurate in our assessments of sociopathy over there in the PCG, particularly in the leadership, especially with your founder who has delusions of grandeur as "That Prophet", claiming as it were that he is Jesus Christ in full living color (well, Flurry <i>is</i> looking a bit pale these days), in the flesh. That is undoubtedly covered in the DSM-5, but my cat hasn't checked out the specifics yet.<br /><br />Oh, all right -- you'd rather we resort to Scripture then. Fine. 2 Timothy 3:1-5: <br /><br /><b>This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. <br /><br />For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, <br /><br />Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, <br /><br />Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; <br /><br />Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.</b> <br /><br />We also like Matthew 7:15-23:<br /><br /><b>Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. <br /><br />Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? <br /><br />Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. <br /><br />A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. <br /><br />Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. <br /><br />Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. <br /><br />Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. <br /><br />Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? <br /><br />And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.</b> <br /><br />We don't have to tell you how much trouble you're in, but since you are <b><i>atheists</i></b>, it makes no difference to you, does it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-27886532494178451572013-06-05T04:58:31.314-07:002013-06-05T04:58:31.314-07:00On balance, I went through a time where anti depre...On balance, I went through a time where anti depressants seemed to be the route. Depression, in my view and experience is rooted in anger that one A. Feels they have no right to express or B. Has a price attached to it that is too high to pay. As a result, we pack it in and it produces the chemistry of depression.<br /><br />Meds can repress those receptors but do leave one rather ambivilent about most things which is not facing the issues in reality and moving on. The doc said I'd be on them "the rest of your life." I recall thinking.."umm....wrong.."<br /><br />Anxiety, mostly caused by churches...lol, is fear of the future. I think if one could combine Ativan with Snickers it would be the perfect food LOL. Unfortunately, Ativan is a class C narcotic and addicting. But is certainly relieves the anxiety that can be quite damaging to the body. Again, the solution is to address the issue that causes the anxiety or learn the art of letting go, none clinging and grasping at things that are not real or go away just like everything else on this planet and in life. <br /><br />With regard to PCG and other one man religious shows...Med's may help one to stay or leave but leaving and thinking for oneself is the cure.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30677890975439087622013-06-05T04:11:37.146-07:002013-06-05T04:11:37.146-07:00The human mind and brain is probably the most awes...The human mind and brain is probably the most awesome receiver of waves outside our skulls one can imagine... A few lbs of colesteral woven into an electrical template upon which all experiences of the outside world get into our skulls and turned into experience and memory. <br /><br />I'd say church leaders need to leave the study of how it works and what can screw it up to others who dedicate their lives to such things, and have the intellect to understand it or speculate about it.<br /><br />The brain fools us into thinking we directly experience the world outside but in reality EVERTHING we experience is only inside the head. <br /><br />If a tree falls in the forrest and there is no ear there to hear it, does it make a sound? No it does not. Falling trees make waves in the air and all sound is ONLY sound AFTER the wave reaches the ear, is turned into an electrical signal which is turned into a sound inside the head. The world outside our head is stone cold silent full of waves and frequencies. <br /><br />Color is only in our heads and it is possible that light itself only illuminates inside the head after the photon passes through the eye and is turned into a picture the size of a credit card inside and on the back of our brain. Whoa!!<br /><br />Mental disorders are many and religion plays its part in both causing it and perhaps helping one cope with it. The brain is also in the blood as it secretes the appropriate chemicals that lead to our emotions . Emotions are the body's reaction to the chemistry produced by the brain. <br /><br />Religion can cause many emotions both good and in the case of PKG, PCG, RCG etc, really intense ones stirred up by memories and experiences with them. <br /><br />Personally my hope is it's all a hologram and reality is not quite what we think it is being much much more and for amazing reasons we are yet to clearly discover. <br /><br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79629328351010422142013-06-05T03:19:04.779-07:002013-06-05T03:19:04.779-07:00Also sad to note are the sycophantic comments clai...Also sad to note are the sycophantic comments claiming this article is so profound and meaningful.<br /><br />Including one comment by a person who says he/she last week received "timely counseling" from a minister and decided to quit his or her job in the mental health care profession. (The commenter is vague.)Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-4817926261524036142013-06-05T02:53:27.618-07:002013-06-05T02:53:27.618-07:00How would you like Ron Fraser to council you or yo...How would you like Ron Fraser to council you or your family? I find that possibility a very scary proposition. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com