tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post8860530048830328127..comments2024-03-28T04:23:41.363-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Is the CGI Jamaica Showing the COG's How To Really Do Church? NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-46176757343232434452017-08-29T13:34:16.792-07:002017-08-29T13:34:16.792-07:00Bear in mind that Jamaica has a high concentration...Bear in mind that Jamaica has a high concentration of Israelites as well. This means God has used the gentiles to get to his scattered people over time. In terms of the other groups that are not doing well in Jamaica, it could be a case of not being known in terms of personalities or not having dynamic speakers. Jamaicans tend to go for lively speakers over just presenting information. As someone that dabbles in marketing, the Church can do well anywhere if we focus in on the issues from a kingdom perspective. People do want hope all over, so we have a chance to provide that.Morleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01384434608958528118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-27580461616828751782017-06-13T22:19:51.901-07:002017-06-13T22:19:51.901-07:004.23 AM
My point is that condemnation of homosexua...4.23 AM<br />My point is that condemnation of homosexuality is often portrayed as purely western construct.<br />What this ignores is that reality is defined by God rather than western civilization. <br />Western civilization is often used as a whipping boy, when people fail to conform to someone's vision of utopia. I try to avoid such nonsense by carefully observing what God has created. Scientists sometimes spend years studying a animal species. Do they turn around and say that the animal behaviour is wrong and that their notions of how the animal should behave is right? If course not. Yet this foolishness permeates left wing thinking. It's obvious that 'materialism' is part of Gods creation. Materialism is good. People wanting more is good. Left wingers can go weep and gnash their teeth.<br />PS left wing Obama got payed 3 million dollars for his speech in Italy. These people don't practise what they preach. Three million buck, the Devil looks after his own. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-80499514399375601752017-06-13T19:52:16.427-07:002017-06-13T19:52:16.427-07:00I am really looking for an informed critique
There...<i>I am really looking for an informed critique</i><br />There is a way out of CGI's dilemma of trying to bridge NT contradictions:<br /> - Jettison either the Christianity or the Judaic component - <br />Prof. James Tabor has taken such action, jettisoning Christianity/embracing Judaism.<br />This would make sense in Jamaica as Christianity is too competitive there.Minimalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07394978086891772878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-91341887447656826072017-06-13T12:45:07.023-07:002017-06-13T12:45:07.023-07:00I meant critique, not "critique show".... I meant critique, not "critique show". Ian BoyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-41930240130316653252017-06-13T11:03:03.361-07:002017-06-13T11:03:03.361-07:00I must say that I really appreciate the fact that...I must say that I really appreciate the fact that Minimalist has taken the time to listen to at least sections of Part Two of my presentations. His comments are reasonable , though I would, of course , differ. I am really looking for an informed critique show and I get the impression that he is prepared to offer just that. If he can endure the two hours I would really appreciate it. I would also like Byker Bob to give a response if he can spare the time to listen. I know it's asking a lot, but if possible, I really crave the critique from informed people. Ian Boyne Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-49536277502058350092017-06-13T09:21:49.153-07:002017-06-13T09:21:49.153-07:00Do you even know what the term "monolithic&qu...Do you even know what the term "monolithic" means, 3:47?. It is something that collections of individuals are generally not.<br /><br />Issues, issues, issues, people. Not stereotypes based on pigmentation!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-89426291839187888742017-06-13T09:12:57.913-07:002017-06-13T09:12:57.913-07:00The guy who brings us the occasional public servic...The guy who brings us the occasional public service spots on behalf of Hitler obviously didn't grow up in my neighborhood where peoples' grandparents and parents still had the numbers tattooed on their arms from the death camps.<br /><br />As John Lennon once sang ".......you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow!" Lennon sang those words about the hippies that tended to admire Chairman Mao, but they apply to Hitler as well! <br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-71780638129515417942017-06-13T08:32:03.995-07:002017-06-13T08:32:03.995-07:00In Ian Boyne's 2nd video, he states at 1:00:44...<br />In Ian Boyne's 2nd video, he states at 1:00:44 mark:<br /> <i>"In Colossians..the scholars are agreed..the majority position..the problem here was a Gnostic.."</i><br />It's a bit more than that: Paul here, and consistently elsewhere, is coming out as a radical supersessionist, overthrowing key Mosaic legislation! Baldwin is just the latest of a string of SDA intellectuals to align with what is the <i>true</i> majority scholarly position!<br /><br />Later at the 1:35:00 mark Boyne quotes scholars having Jesus upholding the Torah in the Gospels. Well yes, the NT canon is schizophrenic on the subject, that's why multiple versions of Christianity coexisted for its first few hundred years. It's just that Paul's (radical) position is more explicit and eventually won out against the James/Peter version of early-Christianity. Minimalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07394978086891772878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-1908553833475860672017-06-13T04:23:28.279-07:002017-06-13T04:23:28.279-07:00Since when does the West reject homosexuality? Th...Since when does the West reject homosexuality? The have gone full trans. Hopefully the blacks in Africa are too smart for that. As for cosmopolitan Jamacia, I'm not so sure. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-78941035759047601032017-06-13T04:21:15.267-07:002017-06-13T04:21:15.267-07:00I recall Gary saying that he only approves some of...<i>I recall Gary saying that he only approves some of them for posting.</i><br /><br />The weak must be protected from truths they can't handle or they will act like animals, go berserk, trample on their shirts, burn down their own neighborhoods, or whatever childish prank that gets them media attention and intimidates civilized people. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-40073598690365755182017-06-13T00:08:35.775-07:002017-06-13T00:08:35.775-07:00An entire posting of my didn't make it over th...An entire posting of my didn't make it over the internet.<br /><br />It rambled something about remnants of the british empire and rastafari lion of judah, lost tribes in Ethiopia consciousness. Then it went on about the American empire and the Western hemisphere. COG being a missionary church from that empire whereas Lion of Judah and Israel connections are rooted in Jamaican culture also.<br /><br />ramble ramble. Most points have been made on this thread in one form or another.<br />I don't know if COG7 are teetotallers, SDA are to some extent. Armstrongism allows for the occasional rum during the feast.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30634172461951460692017-06-12T22:14:50.273-07:002017-06-12T22:14:50.273-07:00Ian
I hate it when writers use expressions such...Ian<br /> I hate it when writers use expressions such as 'western notions of ... (whatever). Often included are concepts such as freedom, reason and rejection of homosexually. What they are really rejecting is what God has created. They think they know better than God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-7404535641332728952017-06-12T18:14:56.535-07:002017-06-12T18:14:56.535-07:00"Ah, I had already anticipated chauvinistic a..."Ah, I had already anticipated chauvinistic and racist statements like the one from Anonymous 11:01 before I even read it."<br /><br />Yep, he was prepared for the racist comments before anybody made any, which is why he read racism into comments that weren't racist. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-35486222771127117202017-06-12T18:13:11.089-07:002017-06-12T18:13:11.089-07:00The COGs think it is their job to warn Israel. An...The COGs think it is their job to warn Israel. And they don't think Jamacians are Israel. So that might help explain why they "ignore" Jamacia. <br /><br />On the other hand, anyone can go to the COG web sites if they are on the internet, so I guess God just isn't calling those people over there because their browsers aren't pointing in the right direction. Good for them. <br /> <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48086908705504315652017-06-12T15:53:04.611-07:002017-06-12T15:53:04.611-07:00"That person probably believes Jamaicans live..."That person probably believes Jamaicans live in trees, too!" <br /><br />Strawman argument. Where did he say that? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-57344284231244491942017-06-12T15:47:09.952-07:002017-06-12T15:47:09.952-07:00Jamaica is full of superstitious people who fall f...<i>Jamaica is full of superstitious people who fall for this kind of mumbo jumbo. Of course they are attracted to religious nonsense.</i> <br /><br />He did not say "blacks are superstitious" just Jamaica. But, if we look at the facts, Africans are also highly superstitious, so, since the black guy played the race card, if the truth be told, being superstitious is, to a large degree, a black thing, so they need to own up to it, rather than play the game of moral supremacism that they are so good at. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-70282385663113982952017-06-12T15:41:32.620-07:002017-06-12T15:41:32.620-07:00Well, Ian, Armstrongism probably made a few racist...Well, Ian, Armstrongism probably made a few racists in its time, but it also attracted a number of them too - they were such before the Armstrong experienc. We see it rather regularly on the comment threads, and I recall Gary saying that he only approves some of them for posting. RSKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6395553926027616202017-06-12T15:05:38.811-07:002017-06-12T15:05:38.811-07:00The heresy of seventh-day-sabbatarianism is popula...The heresy of seventh-day-sabbatarianism is popular in countries that are <i>behind the times</i>, like old former British Island colonies such as Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, New Zealand, Australia, Pitcairn Island(100% SDA), Jamaica...<br /><br />Thus we have that awful movie about Seventh-day Adventists (in disproportionate numbers) in former colonial island nation of Australia, starring Meryl Streep as Lindy "a-dingo-took-my-baby" Chamberlain. <br /><br />Those in disadvantaged countries such as these don't have access to competent scholarly libraries and are subject to draconian postal rates for Amazon and other book sources.<br /><br />Thus their citizens are easily bewitched by what the Apostle Paul calls the <i>'weak and beggarly elements'</i> of stealth Judaism diverting the christian's focus on Christ. Minimalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07394978086891772878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74453538844432936672017-06-12T11:46:55.740-07:002017-06-12T11:46:55.740-07:00Ah, I had already anticipated chauvinistic and rac...Ah, I had already anticipated chauvinistic and racist statements like the one from Anonymous 11:01 before I even read it. So predictable--and ignorant. That person probably believes Jamaicans live in trees, too! It's interesting that people are very "enlightened" in rejecting Armstrongism, but culturally-enslaved and wedded to the racist culture fostered by Armstrongite practice. Sensible people on this forum should condemn such backwardness. Ian BoyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-14030933553231469432017-06-12T11:41:36.980-07:002017-06-12T11:41:36.980-07:00BB, you are exactly right re my fellow believers i...BB, you are exactly right re my fellow believers in the other groups:"The American COG rate of growth" is what they are experiencing. Connie's implicit assumption, therefore, has to be assessed against this background.<br /><br /> Also, it is important that I mention this for I anticipate the thinking of some on this forum: Jamaica is BY NO MEANS similar to the situation in Africa. First, for those who don't know, Jamaica is an highly Americanised, cosmopolitan society. American culture is highly influential here. Our people are very materialistic, atomistic and addicted to Western notions of "success". We are also increasingly secular, with many abandoning Christianity, just like the American phenomenon with the Nones. <br />Jamaica is a middle-income country, unlike many in Africa. In my congregation, for example are several people with MBAs. We have professionals who are doctors, lawyers(like my daughter who is an assistant Director of Public Prosecutions), accountants, IT specialists, business owners etc. And, most importantly, WE ARE NOY SUPPORTED FINANCIALLY by our headquarters. There is no financial benefit to Jamaicans from being a part an American-headquartered CGI. We are self-supporting. People don't join, unlike the situation with some in Africa, because of American dollars which they can get. They know we are only supported by booklets from America. At Feast time we get some assistance to help the poor to attend ,but again the bulk of that social assistance is paid locally. We don't require financial assistance as we run an efficient, well-managed organization. <br />So I know some might say, "Oh yeah Jamaica is Third World, the people are starving and they are flocking to CGI for the money like in Africa". Some with their implicit racism and ethnic chauvinism will tend to detract from CGI's growth in Jamaica vis-a-vis Armstrongism's sharp decline in North America. First, they should ask why Jamaicans are not flocking to other COGs, here, too if their simplistic cultural analysis holds true. And ,incidentally, I am paid not one cent by either Tyler or Jamaica fo rmy ministerial services. My secular jobs support me. Ian BoyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-67818348448693007232017-06-12T11:01:45.243-07:002017-06-12T11:01:45.243-07:00Jamaica is full of superstitious people who fall f...Jamaica is full of superstitious people who fall for this kind of mumbo jumbo. Of course they are attracted to religious nonsense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-45791870165477448782017-06-12T11:00:51.101-07:002017-06-12T11:00:51.101-07:00Ian should call his lectures "Why You Should ...Ian should call his lectures "Why You Should Reject Grave and Use the Law to Gain Your Own Salvation".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-50875174574856610092017-06-12T09:28:27.544-07:002017-06-12T09:28:27.544-07:00The stats on the SDA church indicate that of the 6...The stats on the SDA church indicate that of the 62% who are Protestant, 11% of that are SDA. There is also a large group (24% of the 62%) called "Church of God", but that is a Wesleyist group, dissimilar to what we here commonly call the Church of God, or Armstrongist Church of God. <br /><br />Prevalence of Adventism is not an explanation for CGI's acceptance or success.<br /><br />See Wikipedia article: Religion in Jamaica.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-64773908141498286442017-06-12T08:44:40.781-07:002017-06-12T08:44:40.781-07:00Ian,
The only pastors not benefitting from favora...Ian,<br /><br />The only pastors not benefitting from favorable circumstance were the first missionaries descending on the isles of Ireland, the Viking nation or inserting the Saxons and other tribes on the European mainland from Iona or Lindisfarne.<br /><br />The current trend would be "Local Brands". The lesser succes of other COG's goes with the rapid demise of the authority of the American empire from which its 20th century missionaries hailed bringing a "foreign" brand. Although the philosophy of the British Empire and its worldwide humanistic perspective e pluribus unum, worldwide community of man, which is so characteristic of the philosophy of the COG movement, is no stranger to the Jamaican people.<br /><br />But as I said the American brand and in particular the "armstrongism" brand is under scrutiny. Therefore as it has always been since the romans and the byzantines on the edges of the current empire the cog revives amongst the former gentiles, being celts, langobardi, burgundian tribes or the particular tribed that took shape in the 17th century on your beautiful island.<br /><br />Oh yes. The British Empire. The Lion of Judah, Ethiopia Rastafari and the COG. The perfect mix under the American (christian) nuclear protective shield.<br /><br />nck<br /><br /> <br /><br />nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-89997696180321129252017-06-12T08:39:29.110-07:002017-06-12T08:39:29.110-07:00No slight intended by my analysis, Ian. We really...No slight intended by my analysis, Ian. We really don't have any news or statistics pertaining to the activities of other COG groups in Jamaica. My assumptions would be that some of them are making an effort, but that the results would be similar to what they produce in the continental USA, in other words, minimal and disappointing.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.com