Classic “Armstrongism,” for want of a better term, teaches that the “True Church” is defined in its identity and authority by a lineage of ministerial ordinations (sometimes termed “apostolic succession”). Christ ordained the original apostles, who ordained people, who ordained people, yada-yada-yada, who ordained people, and at least one of those people personally ordained by the laying on of hands Herbert Armstrong. All of these people will have followed “true” Christianity, which means they were seventh-day Sabbatarian. They will not have descended from the supposed Simon Magus counterfeit religion, as Armstrong would elaborate, and at no point will there be a non-Sabbatarian in this lineage.
This was the explanation given by Andrew Dugger, Jr and CO Dodd in their 1930s book “A History of the True Religion” (originally titled, “A History of the True Church”). Armstrong embraced this concept, and intensified it in the 1950s. See
“Must God’s ministers be ordained by the hands of man?” (1960 version). The idea is that to be a “true” Christian minister, one must have been ordained by the literal action of a minister in that succession.
This is not my opinion. This is the teaching of your faith tradition. If you found a minister of a small congregation somewhere meeting on Saturdays and perhaps teaching a few doctrines traditionally associated with your faith tradition (Armstrongism), that would not necessarily mean that church is a “true Church of God” (or “branch of the Church,” the terminology preferred by some like the late Roderick Meredith). The minister would had to have been ordained in that discussed lineage. He couldn’t have been, say, ordained as a Presbyterian minister, looked at the Decalogue, and said, “Oh, wait! We should be observing the seventh day, not Sunday!” and then led his congregation to do so. Likewise, lay members of your faith tradition meeting without a minister could not say to you, “Hey, dude! You’re doing the job of a minister. We think God wants you to be a minister,” then all lay hands on you and declare you ordained, and have it be legitimate (in the eyes of your religion). You wouldn’t have ministerial authority, and your “congregation” would simply be a gathering of individual adherents to your faith.
It is this claim of ordinational lineage that gives the ministry of your faith tradition their legitimacy as a binding authority. Thus it is core to the claim of Herbert Armstrong being an “apostle,” “the Elijah,” etc. If that lineage does not in fact exist, then the claim of his authority is false, as is that of the ministry ordinationally descended from him.
Craig White of Australia has done decades of research in “True Church history,” and has sought to demonstrate the alleged linkage going here in North America. Whatever doctrinal commonalities the different Sabbatarian groups may have possessed (and doctrines can be transmitted or developed in the number of ways with no ordinational or organizational succession), he admits failure to find the requisite linkages.
From White’s writeup,
A Note on the Seventh-Day Baptist Relationship to the Church of God:



Note Point 4: “4. if there is very little linkage between them and there is no evidence of ongoing sequence of laying hands upon subsequent leadership or elders from one era to the next, how does one know it is legitimate?…”
He acknowledges “no evidence” of the ordinational succession, and then asks the resultant question of how to evaluate the “legitima[cy]” of the Armstrongist “True Church” and ministry claim.
And here is the answer: Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7 include a reference to a number of families claiming Levitical descent at the rebuilding of Jerusalem, but whose names are not listed in a registry of such descendants. This results in them being declared “unclean” and set aside from the functions and privileges of the priesthood (until objective verification could be had). Putting this in jurisprudential terms, this is a “precedent,” an event which sets out how situations like this ought to be handled. The “burden of proof” lies with the people claiming the succession exists. It does not lie with somebody challenging it.
The Armstrongist ministry has long and strongly drawn a direct parallel between itself and the Levitical priesthood. No remotely experienced Armstrongist can deny this with a straight face. That said, I will include a few of my favorite examples to illustrate the depth your religion takes this. The reference to “Levites” in the Deuteronomy 14:28-29 discussion of “third tithe” was used to justify the use of the assistance fund to pay for home renovations of ministers. I even recall a minister at a WCG Feast of Tabernacles saying that it could be used to directly augment ministerial salaries because of this (though he denied it had ever happened). Much of the authority and prestige of the Armstrongist ministry comes from drawing such parallels. A UCG minister after the 1995 event even said that they could call themselves “priests” because of this if they so chose. Another minister, then still in WCG post-1995 but now pastoring for UCG, told me of how at WCG headquarters in Pasadena, since ordained ministry were called “spiritual Levites,” they went full-circle terminology-wise and referred to non-ordained church workers as “PHYSICAL Levites.” Armstrong himself took it so far as to even roll it over into a theory that many of his ministers were descended literally – genetically – from the Levitical line.
(
Here is a comedic story touching on this, involved security at the Ambassador campus. The writer is obviously very discontented with Armstrongism. It seems that security volunteers on the Sabbath were given a technical consideration of being “spiritual Levites” in order to justify their work on the Sabbath. As all good satire is based in truth, it demonstrates just how truly serious the Armstrong faith tradition has taken the supposed Levitical parallel. )
The Levite-“True Church” minister analogies go on and on, and every minister of the Armstrong tradition knows that.
Ergo, following the parallel laid out by the ministry of your faith tradition, it is on them or their supporters to show the lineage exists. And if that cannot be done – and up to now it has not been done – they are to be considered set aside, and their doctrinal and spiritual authority nonbinding.
Despite this, Armstrongist apologists not only seek to avoid the general issue, but actually play dumb on the whole matter. Note the following exchange on
LCG’s “Tomorrow’s World” YouTube channel. “TommygunNG” is yours truly.




“HUMAN lineage” (emphasis added). Is that genetic or actional (by ordination)? This purposeful distortion of the issue is shocking in its audacity. Obviously, this being more of an outreach channel, LCG is attempting to hide the reality of their faith from the uninitiated – that is, prospective members. They will think in general terms about a lineage or succession, believing there’s nothing to what I asked, while members can CHOOSE to take it as referring to genetic reproduction in order to deny to themselves the disingenuousness. But in reality, all their muddling does is show the legitimacy of my point, and their own complete lack of a genuine answer.
To their credit of sorts, at least they were attempting something vaguely substantive. When I asked a comparable question to LCG via Facebook Messenger in 2021, this one specifically regarding who ordained Armstrong himself, their only response was, “Mr. Armstrong explained his ordination in some of his articles, autobiography, etc.” On the other hand, UCG did not reply at all, and COGaWA only replied after a second message noting that they did not reply, with them saying, “Hello! Thank you for your message! We will personally reply to your message as quickly as possible. In the meantime, feel free to check out our website at […]!” Of course, no such “personal reply” ever came.
Even attempting to deny the direct applicability of the scriptural example (and thus losing much of the power and prestige in the ministry gained by the Levitical typology), the precedent sets the parallel in establishing the burden of proof for succession claims. Think about it. If a woman from your past claimed her child was the result of a union between the two of you, you would not simply accept her claim. You would demand affirmative proof that the child was yours. How much more important than the genealogy of a single individual is being sure that the doctrinal authority you believe you are bound to is the correct one?
Today we have DNA tests to determine physical paternity. But unfortunately, there is no spiritual DNA test that can track ministerial ordinations. People have to rely on verifiable documentation for that. And unfortunately for your religion, the Armstrong faith tradition cannot even determine what elder(s) ordained Armstrong himself, let alone who ordained him/them, etc., back to the original apostles.
Church of God (Seventh Day) history shows that the early ministers of that denomination held ordinations from mainstream non-Sabbatarian protestant churches. CG7’s founders were simply ministers who became involved in the Millerite/Adventist movement and adopted seventh-day Sabbatarianism. Few if any came in as Sabbatarians. The same can be said of most of the lay members. They were not “rebaptized” upon this change in their practice. The whole claim of such a lineage preceding the formation of what became CG7 did not exist until the 1920s. Dugger himself claimed in a
1926 article that his “first insight” on the idea came from an event in 1922:



History simply does not bear the claim out, and in fact points against the claim. Contrary to the impressions given by people like Herman Hoeh, there are no (known) ordinational linkages between them and any sort of Sabbatarian line back to antiquity. A clever and perhaps typical example of an attempt to give this unfounded perception is found in
LCG’s booklet on the subject, discussed above in the YouTube screenshots. In a particularly odd case of attention to detail, it attempts to mislead readers into thinking Roswell Cottrell, a Seventh Day Baptist who entered the Millerite/Adventist movement in 1851 and became a leading figure in the movement, was a “long time Sabbatarian minister” at the time of his entrance. The truth is, while his family has a long Sabbatarian history (back to the 1630s) and his father John was a former in SDB minister who entered Adventism the same year, he himself was not apparently ordained until 1854 – that is, already within the Adventist movement, and two years after his father’s death. (Plus, at age 34, he wouldn’t have been a “long-time” anything!) The apparent intent is to imply to the initiated reader that the supposed “True Church” ordinational succession might have entered Adventism through him. Yet without a prior ordination, it obviously could not.
Speculative thought: I have to wonder if the writer actually intended critics to look into the fellow and find his family’s descent from European nonconformist groups often mentioned in “True Church” histories. The problem, though, is that actual attention to detail and a refusal to simply accept their unfounded presumptions defeats the effort. (Good try, though.😁)
And thus, based on the Ezra 2/Nehemiah 7 precedent and the most basic of common sense, your religion’s claim of exclusively being “true Christianity” and that the teachings of your ministry — INCLUDING THAT OF HERBERT ARMSTRONG — ought to be disregarded as authoritative in the sense traditionally held in Armstrongism. This does not mean that you or they are or were wrong about any other given point of biblical doctrine. It’s simply means that you are not bound before God to believe those ministers, and thus are free to study doctrinal questions and arrive at different conclusions. You are not bound to Herbert Armstrong, WCG, or their legacy.
In a very real sense, I personally do not care what days you rest for worship. I do not care what you believe about the state of the dead. I do not care whether or not you doctrinally allow or prohibit makeup or interracial marriage. I can even sadly tolerate the denial of civic duty among many Armstrongists and Armstrongist fellowships (it is a free country, after all). What I do care about is that people are feeling held to a faith tradition – that is, Armstrongism – which bases its doctrinal authority over adherents on a fundamentally flawed and false premise [fraud, perhaps?]. And thus, I will confront its adherents with the historical reality and the scriptural precedent laid out here.
I was an Armstrongist (WCG 1988-95; UCG 1995-2000; ICG 2000-01), as you are now. I do know what you believe. I understand your take on John 6:44. I understand how powerful it is believing that you have been given a special opening to knowledge. But I will put this to you: Jeremiah 17:9 - “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it.”
What I present to you is not my opinion or my specific doctrinal conclusions. It is historical fact and scriptural precedent. It is my hope that you will look into this matter and consider it objectively. A deceived man does not know he is deceived. No matter how deeply you intuitively believe something, it can still be wrong. If you look at this objectively, you will understand.
Contact me on TruthSocial at @LTWalker03 to respond.
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NOTE: If an Armstrongist minister ever denies the ordinational succession claim and/or its centrality to the defining and operation of their supposed “True Church,” ask him if there is even a serious possibility that his church might possibly recognize as a “true” minister someone claiming to be a minister, but definitely without such succession. If he says that it is at all possible, then the hold on members that the Armstrongist ministry claims is gone. His church will be no better than any other Christian denomination. Anyone will be free to leave their current church and be declared a “minister,” and members will be free to follow him or any other professed minister – or none at all. The Armstrongist minister and his church will have no justification on those grounds for denouncing the new “fellowship.” On the other hand, if he says that here is no chance that the succession-free minister would be so recognized, then he is essentially yielding the point.
Lee Walker
Isn't it interesting that history actually does support this unbroken chain of laying on of hands within the (gasp!) Catholic (Universal) Church of God? Heh heh! Read and weep!
ReplyDeleteBB
Isn't it interesting that history actually does support this unbroken chain of laying on of hands within the (gasp!) Catholic (Universal) Church of God? Heh heh! Read and weep!
DeletePlease don't be so credulous. The Roman Catholic Church lost its chain of valid ordinations long ago, when it abandoned the Nicene Creed and inserted the heretical "filioque" statement that butchers the proper understanding of the Trinity. Even before Constantinople formally excommunicated the false Roman schismatics, Roman "ordinations" were not ordaining priests into the true Church but rather into a heretical deviation that teaches a false god. If there is any historically valid chain of ordinations from the present to the Apostles, it is found in the Orthodox Church, not the Roman Catholic Church.
@ Anon 6:19 the Four Patriarchs of the Ecumenical churches would disagree with you. Roman sacraments are considered valid. The Roman church is still valid, it is merely in the status of schism. Its validity has never been questioned by the Orthodox churches. The filioque controversy is a lot more nuanced than black and white heresy. A Bishop does have the authority to make certain judgements within their jurisdiction (like adding the filioque to the creed) that are different from other jurisdictions, especially when these judgements are used to combat greater heresies and help define and promote truth.
DeleteI regard the Filioque Controversy to be really a tempest in a teapot. I can't help but feel there was a growing divide in the church already underway and Filioque was just a convenient hook on which the desire for schism could hang. It seems to me that there was much speculation going on about how the three God persons were related. Some of the invoked scriptures have a certain degree of elasticity. They accommodate speculation. When you build a speculative structure, it is hard to label a departure from it as "heresy." It is more an alternative speculation than a heresy. Although, apparently, the brothers back then did not see it that way. But I think their outsized contentiousness was fed by the political milieu.
DeleteScout
I was baptized by a WWCG minister in the 1970s. When I met a girl on the outside of the church and asked God for His permission to marry her, I got the reply of "no, because you are holy." So HWA's ministers do have to power to baptize people with the resulting holy spirit being given. I'm not sure whether ministers from other denominations have this ability.
ReplyDelete3:44 — Simply because somebody tells you they have a power doesn’t mean they actually have it. It certainly doesn’t mean they exclusively have it.
DeleteI find it interesting that HWA believed and taught there was an unbroken historical line of the COG from the apostolic era to the 20th century, using this as proof that the WCG was the true COG. He also claimed this continuity was maintained through ministerial ordinations via the laying on of hands.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in my view, such a historical or ritualistic line doesn’t prove legitimacy—any more than the Catholic Church’s similar claims prove it’s the true Church. Christ said He would build His Church, and I believe that means He calls and chooses His people directly, just as God called individuals in the Old Testament to fulfill His will.
Whether someone was Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, or independent between 33 AD and today, the key factor is the presence of God's Holy Spirit in them—not institutional affiliation.
I say this because I still see some in the COG community who refuse to read or consider any source outside of COG circles—rejecting encyclopedias, commentaries, or works by non-Sabbath and non-holy day keepers. This reflects a lingering belief from HWA’s teachings that the true Church can be traced through history in a direct, visible line.
Ironically, these same people often accept “new truths” from their leaders—teachings not historically found in the COG. Yet if they were willing to consult the very sources they reject, they might discover that these “new truths” were actually known or taught by mainstream Christians long ago. This raises the question: where are their leaders really getting these new ideas from and why are they concealing their sources—much like HWA allegedly did in his time to form his belief system?
This discussion highlights the tendency of human beings to get hung up on extraneous issues and to ignore what is really important, which is each individual's moral responsiblity before God. Simply put, what matters in life is determining what God would have you do and then doing it, which is a very personal matter that involves working out your own salvation. Jesus' beef with the Pharisees is that they were obsessed with relatively unimportant ecclesiastical matters --- hand-washing, picky Sabbath rules, etc. --- while ignoring "the weightier matters of the law", such as justice, mercy, and faith. Likewise, worrying about whether your own particular minister or religious guru had hands layed on him by someone who had hands laid on him by someone who had hands layed on him...ad nauseum...is not nearly as important as following your conscience when it is led by the spirit of God and putting sin out of your life. It is important to stay focused and not get distracted by issues that may be interesting to discuss but are not vital to salvation.
ReplyDeleteMore proof of the illegitimacy of Bob Thiel's claims of apostolic succession from the 1st century. Same goes for Flurry and Pack.
ReplyDelete7:53 — Virtually all of the Armstrongist WCG splits make the same claim. Indeed, without it any talk of “true church” becomes functionally meaningless. Members would be able to go any direction they want with no line to be crossed in order to be considered having “left the True Church.” That’s why I hold that this succession is THE IDENTIFYING FACTOR in Armstrongism. Without it, it is nothing but an assemblage of theological parts that one can treat as a smorgasbord – take what you want, and leave the rest – with no authoritative ministry to control you. So breaking the belief in the succession is the biggest step in destroying the cult.
DeleteHWA tied what is called "the primacy of Peter" to the spurious unbroken chain he stole from COG7. This is described in Matt. 16:18-19, in which Jesus conferred the responsibility/authority of binding and loosening upon Peter. HWA claimed to have this binding and loosing authority over what he euphemistically called "God's Church". (his church)
ReplyDeleteWhy is this important? Since the verified historical records support the presence of the unbroken chain of laying on of hands within the Catholic Church, one could make the argument that the RCC exists today in its current state due to the exercising of the primacy of Peter over the past 2,000 years.
There is so much to be said on this topic! It's also directly related to another favotite, the extrabiblical theory that the list of types of attitudes in churches along an ancient trade route should be extrapolated into historic church eras. Surely, we can all see that these are typical attitudes, common to human beings, all of which tend to exist simultaneously within any given group. William Miller taught that the Philadelphia era had ended during his lifetime, and that "we" had now entered the Laodicean era. Others within the movement he started have made completely different assignations, and were similarly wrong. As an example, anecdotal evidence would seem to support the theory that there was much more brotherly love in the church HWA branded as "Sardis", than ever existed in HWA's church. Why did HWA take the best so-called era for himself? John 13:35. Though he often downgraded the New Testament concept of love, he realized that it was an identifier of disciples of Jesus. So he misappropriated it, placed it into his advertisers bag of tricks, and sold it to us as yet another proof. Make no mistake, there were certain personality types scattered throughout the WCG who had an innate sense of love, and did not allow such things as the child-rearing booklet or the shunning doctrine to kill it off. However, those personality types exist to one extent or another in all churches.
In 1054, the Catholic Church calved its first splinter group, the Eastern Orthodox Church. The Protestant Reformation began in 1517, giving birth to a group which splintered into the global condition HWA was able to exploit as he taught that "all these churches can't be right". Another interesting bit of salesmanship. The fact is that the leaders of most of these groups, though they started as splinter groups, actually had received laying on of hands by people who were part of the chain. However, these people defied the primacy of Peter. For lack of better descriptives, they "left the church". HWA "left the church" to start his own. Gerald Flurry "left the church". Raymond Cole "left the church" Rod Meredith "left the church", and so on and so on from the high and the mighty to the little pipsqueaks. They all sold themselves as being totally justified, and painted themselves as reformers, but reality is that they defied or broke the chain!
BB
In 1054, the Catholic Church calved its first splinter group, the Eastern Orthodox Church.
DeleteFalse. By 1054, the Bishop of Rome was already the political/military head over territory known as the Papal States. Orthodox bishops didn't have their own nations to rule; they were purely religious leaders, though some were more politically entangled and corrupted than others. Rome and its vassals had already split from the faith promulgated by the early Church, as in the Nicene Creed, when the Patriarch of Constantinople in 1054 formally acknowledged this fact and proclaimed that Rome had become schismatic -- that it was Rome, not the many other bishoprics, primarily in the East of what had been the old Roman Empire, that had left the Church and formed the first major "splinter" group. But the Patriarch of Constantinople didn't have "papal" authority over the other Orthodox bishops; he was merely the first and most prominent to so plainly force the issue of Rome's blatant heresy.
At the Council of Nicea, the nascent Christian church split from the last of its links to its Jewish origins. As of 1054 the Orthodox churches were still proclaiming that same Nicene faith. It was Rome and its vassals that split off into new teachings and obscene political/military entanglements, a reality that in 1054 the Patriarch of Constantinople had no choice but to affirm, as did nearly all of the Eastern bishoprics as well.
Your Cliff's Notes: Pope = Joe Tkach. Patriarch of Constantinople =
DeleteVic Kubik, Rod Meredith, Les McCullough, David Hume, David Pack, Gerald Flurry, etc. I do appreciate your having presented the Eastern Orthodox perspective of the controversy, however. It adheres to the typical pattern for the vast majority of splinters.
BB
Not all COG groups claim this.
ReplyDelete11:52 — See the post of my article for the consequences of that: https://catsgunsandnationalsecurity.blogspot.com/2025/03/reference-to-followers-of-armstrongism.html?m=1
Delete“NOTE: If an Armstrongist minister ever denies the ordinational succession claim and/or its centrality to the defining and operation of their supposed “True Church,” ask him if there is even a serious possibility that his church might possibly recognize as a “true” minister someone claiming to be a minister, but definitely without such succession. If he says that it is at all possible, then the hold on members that the Armstrongist ministry claims is gone. His church will be no better than any other Christian denomination. Anyone will be free to leave their current church and be declared a “minister,” and members will be free to follow him or any other professed minister – or none at all. The Armstrongist minister and his church will have no justification on those grounds for denouncing the new “fellowship.” On the other hand, if he says that here is no chance that the succession-free minister would be so recognized, then he is essentially yielding the point.”
—
In a very real sense, they lose any real ability to claim “True Church.” Every other possible basis for the claim is subjective or inconclusive. Doctrine can be copied, even as Armstrong copied Godmaking from the Mormons. Thus it does not prove succession, even presuming the doctrine to be correct. “Miracles” can be documented, so to speak, in many religious traditions. Great accomplishments are relative and matters of judgment. It depends on what one compares the “Work” of Armstrong to, and that usually ends up presuming his doctrine to be correct in order to narrow down what is worthy to be compared to it. And don’t get people started on claims of “how spiritual” the ministers of the Armstrong faith tradition are.
And finally, there is always the possibility of another religious tradition out there which is the ACTUAL “True Church,” a church hiding in the hills of Kentucky or on some little South Pacific island where the women don’t wear a lot of clothes. (Come on, it’s a joke.) They are the “church in the wilderness,” and acting so based on their superior knowledge as actually being the True Church. And throw in the Armstrong view of John 6:44, et al, and it is entirely possible that none of us know anything about it.
No I won't. Behave. Not all COG groups claim to be THE True church.
Delete12:54 — Perhaps precisely what you mean by “COG group.” The Restoration Church of God is a non-Sabbatarian Amish group. World Missionary Church of God is a Korean Leviticus 23-observant group with no Armstrong ties (they worship the widow of their founder, who they view is the second coming of Christ, as “God the Mother”). Church of God (Holiness) was J.H. Allen’s church (yes, that J.H. Allen of Anglo-Israelism fame). if they are included in your definition, then I wholeheartedly agree. But it really doesn’t help with the issue at hand.
DeleteCG7 renounced any sort of agreement with that doctrine. British-Israel Church of God, which seems to consist of three guys and a tech dude spread across two states and two provinces, is definitely Armstrongist in most doctrine and background, but it said they reject the succession claim. Of course, the guys involved with it were never themselves ordained. Christian Fellowship Ministries (”of the Church of God” — always gotta add that part into your name) is a small congregation in the Carolinas, of which the minister has an Armstrongist background, but which seems to reject Sabbatarian exclusivism — that is, non-Sabbatarians can be true Christians in their view. Yet when I asked the pastor about this succession claim, he referred me to Dugger and Dodd’s book. (Yeah, it seemed like he was playing both sides of the field to me as well.)
As for pre-‘86 splits, I’m sure there are some that mitigate or even reject the concept. It would help in justifying leaving Mighty Lord Armstrong’s rule. Again, good for them. Maybe they will be able to examine issues without feeling the need to support Armstrong.
The question then would be, how “Armstrongist” are they? If a given “ACOG,” as I see the term used around here, does indeed reject this succession claim, good for them. I explained the problem with such groups that do so. I guess they could try just tracking members in general as a succession, but then there was no bar to members splitting off and informing the own branches, and then ordaining their own ministry. It makes the concept meaningless.
So, what exactly do you mean by “COG group”?
12:54 — Got a little long-winded in the last reply. Simply put, if an Armstrong-connected church rejects “True Church,” then good for them. The bulk of them, esp post-‘86 splits — “classic Armstrongism,” as I put it in my article — hold to it, and thus hold their members.
DeleteThe Primacy of Peter Error:
ReplyDeletehttps://orthodoxgc.substack.com/p/the-primacy-of-peter-error
There is error, but then there is the history of how it has actually been applied.
DeleteBB
There is no doubt that Trump will be the next Pope. He has publicly announced his desire to be Pope. There is an unbroken line of US Presidents from the first, George Washington to Trump. It follows that he will be moving to Rome to take up a new position shortly after the conclave. On another note, where are no church ‘eras’ in the reading of scripture. It is simply a mistaken search for legitimacy by the Armstrong movement that doesn’t exist. Like many doctrines within Armstrongism they are shallow unbiblical and clutching for straws that have no weight or authority. And adding to the burdens and weights already laid on the membership by this sect.
ReplyDeleteThere's really good satirical puppet videos about Trump on YouTube.com:
DeleteTrump renames EVERYTHING | PUPPET REGIME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTHmD-MVM9E
It's not just they believe in the unbroken historical line of the COG, they also believe in the unbroken historical line of physical ephraim and manasseh. They have best of both worlds in their tiny little brains.
ReplyDeleteAnd 3:36 they believe in the unbroken historical line of the throne of David coming down to King Chuck III.
Delete6:36 LOL 😆
DeleteDang! You guys sure get under the skin of Bob so easily.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention HWA was baptized by a non-Sabbath-keeping minister and without the laying on of hands, which further supports my belief that this “magic ritual” is unnecessary for receiving God’s Holy Spirit. In the OT God gave His Spirit to whomever He chose—without baptism or laying on of hands—so these practices can't be used as definitive requirements to ID who is and who isn’t part of God’s "true" Church.
ReplyDelete6:48 — Without getting into specific Christian doctrine here myself, I have to point out that you are presuming that worthless jerk Strongarm received the Spirit of God.
DeleteJust an observation.
Lee Walker 10:47 Sorry for any confusion. I'm not commenting on whether HWA received the Holy Spirit. I'm simply pointing out that he was baptized without the so-called 'magic ritual' of LOOH and by someone outside the COG—both of which, by his own standards, would have disqualified others.
Delete7:39 PM — Understood. And good use of Armstrongist doctrine and practice against them.
DeleteI will add that I have used elsewhere the Armstrongist John 3 “begettal” doctrine as a parallel to Support the Ezra/Nehemiah applicability to the topic above. In a manner of speaking, the minister doing the ordaining is a “father” to the one being ordained. Something Paul said might lend to that as well. Hence, applicability of the OT Levitical precedent, combating LCG’s response to me on YouTube. (I didn’t bother to use it there, for better or worse.)
Just an aside.
@3:36PM, have you noticed that BI enthusiasts never seem to mention that the "throne of David" has for centuries been ruled by royals of German heritage, what the BI proponents would call "Assyrians"? Just because in 1917 the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha changed its name to "Windsor" in the UK doesn't change its Germanic bloodline (nor of the House of Hanover that preceded it from 1714. For the last three centuries and more, Assyrians have held the "throne of David." Oops!
ReplyDeleteKing Charles beloved Grandmother Queen Consort Elizabeth was Scottish.
DeleteCorrect 9:30, They want to back there, but then they don’t want to use the science. Then they say” God is the God of science” as Ames would say or others. It’s actually their version of critical race theory.
ReplyDeleteTank
Does anyone remember that Star Trek episode where the crew were getting infected by something just by touching each other? (I only saw it once and have a vague memory of it, so I can't tell you nerds which one it was.) That's how I picture Bob Thiel's view of this mystical "laying on of hands".
ReplyDelete