“Why do people get so angry at atheists for not believing in God?”
https://socialthoughtsblog.com/2024/11/02/why-atheists-enrage-theists/
- The existence of atheists threatens their theist-based perception of reality.
When theists have been conditioned to believe that they are on this planet because of a supreme being, they can’t handle an opposing view. Their theism affects everything else in their life:
- Reason for living
- Right vs wrong
- Social connections
- How to vote
- How to view death
Furthermore, indoctrination is not without the threat of eternal damnation for the act of doubting.
Most believers genuinely believe in a severe supernatural punishment if they dare to question their religion. I wrote about the use of Satan for the sake of control back when I was a Pagan: “The Devil: Lucifer vs. Satan vs. Satanism”
The realization that it’s possible to live according to your own perception without the fear of punishment causes many theists to be confused and/or envious.
- Theists have denial and projection of doubt.
No one likes to be made a fool. Not all, but many people will not admit when they are wrong or even unsure.
Our society has made it better to make up an excuse answer for a question than sit with uncertainty. This goes for religion and business alike — which makes sense because the church is very much a business. It sells you the idea that divinity and the supernatural exist, while never providing concrete proof for any of their claims. These types of theists would rather go to their graves telling atheists they’re wrong than admit that no one can actually prove that divinity exists.
- Theists don’t understand atheism.
Many of the angry theists make wild accusations about what atheism even means. Atheism answers one question: “Do you believe in god(s)?” If the answer is anything except for “Yes,” you’re an atheist.
These types of angry theists will instantly demand an explanation for how the universe began or they’ll tell you what they think you believe, as if it’s a fact: “You believe that something came from nothing!” What they don’t understand is that identifying as an atheist does not require that you answer this question or any other, in fact. They don’t understand that a perfectly rational, acceptable and the most honest response is “I don’t know, and neither do you.”
The Big Bang is the best scientific explanation for how the universe came to be; however, it does not account for the very first few seconds because no one was there to witness it. Science does not make up a story to explain what is unexplainable; religion does; hence creation myths like in Genesis I: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
While plenty of theists prefer the “God of the gaps” argument, it fails as soon as it begins. If God is responsible for everything, then where did God come from?
The unfortunate reason why so many theists don’t understand atheism is because they were told what it is through the lens of religion. If religion doesn’t allow them to question, it won’t allow them to know the truth about the opposing views; instead, it invents its own untruthful version that paints atheists as “ignorant” and “arrogant” for not believing, while simultaneously demanding blind faith from its own followers.
- Theists think atheists hate God.
“Why do you hate God, if you don’t believe God exists” is a common question from theists to atheists. They don’t realize how illogical this question is.
Do Christians believe in the Easter Bunny? Adults don’t usually believe. So, does this mean they hate the Easter Bunny? I doubt it. It’s quite a silly accusation; yet, replace “Easter Bunny” with “God” and you will understand how absurd this question/claim sounds to atheists.
Some theists will get especially angry if you don’t believe in their God.
I find this particularly confusing. There are billions of people in the world. I can’t help but wonder how it’s possible to be so insecure about learning that another person doesn’t believe exactly as you do.
Even Christians argue amongst themselves. Christianity alone has thousands of denominations. Who has the correct interpretation of the Bible? Which version of the Bible is the true version? What makes someone a “true Christian?” In my multiple debates with Christians, a surprising amount don’t even seem to be aware there are multiple versions of the Bible. Where did they think the multiple churches came from?
I have heard that the Christians most eager to prove their God exists are the most insecure. This makes sense. The Christians who truly believe in their God need not convince anyone else. I think that goes for any theist.
Dennis, I'm sorry to see that Bob Thiel's preaching style has rubbed off on you.
ReplyDeleteIn this and your previous post, you are all over the map, and you make some very good arguments much harder to appreciate because of the way you conflate wildly different arguments having sometimes-contradictory first premises.
For instance, we may ask: "Is there a singular personal God who expects us to conduct ourselves in a particular way?" But that is an entirely different question from, "Is it more philosophically sound to assume the existence of an inaccessible Deism-type deity than to assume that the Universe has inherent existence?"
For that matter, the hard problem of consciousness is indeed a hard problem, and debunking any particular religious belief doesn't get to the heart of the underlying question of what consciousness is, and whether it is itself "god" (as suggested by some Eastern philosophies) rather than an emergent property of the chemicals we find around us.
Dennis, it's a pretty big leap from, "Your sky-fairy is bogus" to "The Universe's contents are self-existent" to "The periodic table is self-existent."
I'm sure you roll your eyes when you see one of Bighead Bob's sermon summaries. Please go back and look at your last couple of posts and separate out a couple of the strongest and most tightly-related arguments for proper consideration, if you want to have any hope of making inroads in the thought processes of the folks who read your posts.
The post, reproduced here and written by another who is answer in their own way why people get angry at atheists. It's not about solving the hard problem of consciousness. No one has. There is no debunking of any religious beliefs in either this post, or the last, also written by someone other than myself and merely reproduced there. You seem to have missed the point of both posts There is no need to go back to anything to single out "the strongest and most tightly related ag related arguments for proper consideration". One post is what topics in life can provoke one to question religion and this one is why believers get annoyed at unbelief.
ReplyDeleteI have no inroads to make. I simply am explaining both what observations in life have lead me on my own journey out of belief and why all the blowbacks.
You seem to have missed the point of both posts
DeleteYou, Dennis, seem to have missed the point of posting. Flinging poo against the wall isn't "explaining." Listing 30 topics that can provoke different ones to question religion is likely to be counterproductive, as most people will agree with some and disagree with others, leaving your readers annoyed. You're venting, seemingly as unconcerned about your audience as Dave Pack seems to be.
Sorry, I got twangled. There is no need to go back to anything to single out and "separate out a couple of the strongest and most tightly related arguments for proper consideration, "
Delete‘The Christians who truly believe in their God need not convince anyone else’.
ReplyDeleteQuite a powerful statement there Dennis. And correct.
I enjoy your posts and while I do disagree I welcome your openness.
The tragedy of atheist regimes, the bloodshed they have spilled, is a telling indictment against them.
And much blood has been shed in the name of God.
Alas for humanity. But Christianity provides a hope, and without hope we are all lesser mortals. And it is hope that inspired countless folk to be better people and made this insane world we inhabit slightly more tolerable.
We need more of them.
And hope.
Cheers.
The religious impulse should lead individuals toward humility. So should the scientific impulse. Whether you call yourself a theist or an atheist, if you aren't humble about it there's a very good chance that you've actually become a you-theist, making a "god" of your own subjectivity.
ReplyDeleteExposing the truth yet again that this is a atheist blog.
ReplyDeleteThis really is a attack the sabbath keepers movement blog, you attack on many fronts. One of the attack fronts is atheisim, falsely accuse and bait Sabbath Christians on atheisim repeatedly. It exposes your personsl hallmark of no respect for others.
Yet, you are constantly looking to get titillated over posts here. It is a sad indictment that your faith is so shallow that any post there can cause one to lose faith. If you were secure in your beliefs, you could carry on conversations about why you disagree and admit there are plenty of good reasons why Armstrongism has driven so many to atheism and agnosticism. But, you are to big of a coward to do that. You just hit and run each time like a little whiney third-grade school-girl bully.
DeleteYou really do spend too much time writing your own fanfiction, 11:25.
DeleteNonsense. You can dish out as many nasty assumptions and accusations as you like. My faith is not shallow. I'm not a coward. I do not hit and run and i'm not a bully because i'm fighting back.
DeleteSabbath Keepers have a religious freedom to defend their beliefs and their right to worship God, in peace on the 7th day Sabbath in a sabbath church.
You've lost your temper and are making matters worse. You expect people from different generations to all have to hate or apologise for Herbert Armstrong. Every generations experience is not the same.
Running an anti COG blog is not the answer and only keeps old wounds unhealed. I cannot help you and i honestly don't know who's left alive who can. This was all supposed to have been sorted out 15 or more years ago.
If you had any brains and had been on here for a long time, you would see that most here are NOT against Sabbath keepers. People are free to worship on the day they choose. Many Sabbath keeping members regularly participate here and have posted articles here over the years. What you will find here is people standing up against the endless string of liars and false prophets lording themselves over the brethren with Old Covenant rules, deviant doctrines, outlandish requirements to believe they receive dreams from their god, etc., and their wilful mocking of the New Covenant. Go eat a matzo and have a glass of Manischewitz, you need it!
DeleteLies 4:36. This blog for years has constantly mocked and attacled Sabbath keepers. Your backtracking now. Im not intimidated by your pathetic insults. I can see who you are.
DeleteYou can’t see crap! Which is obvious from your outlandish accusations.
DeleteI actually like Sabbath keepers! Jews, SDAs! Awesome people. Probably COG-7 Sabbath Keepers, too. They love Shabbos. I don't tend to like or enjoy being around people who claim to be the only true anything, the know it alls who believe that when Jesus returns it will be to teach and enforce their particular set of beliefs. Guess that means it's only the Armstrongites that I don't like. Everyone else who keeps the sabbath seems to be more open-minded! Surprise, surprise, surprise!
DeleteYou lot are a utter disgrace to the concept of Christ led leadership in the Way. Diophtres all 3 of you.
DeleteIf you think you are intimidating any of us here, you are barking up Herbies wrong leg.
DeleteI love it when these self-righteous know-it-alls pop on here and spew spittle in self-righteous indignation. Their words are empty and meaningless, pretty much how I imagine their lives to be.
DeleteWhy don't you all say these insults to my face in church ? Afterall i am in your congregation. So go on then. See you later.
DeleteOh? Youre in their congregation huh? So who are you addressing? What is their first and last name?
DeleteHa ha! Canny ye not let it go ! Let it go!! Who's barking up the wrong petite, Saville row tailored, finely woven gaberdine fabric suit leg of HWA now !! Ha ha!
DeleteVexatious litigation going nowhere !
Your baiting is hilarious.
DeleteReligious people will in anger state that if there is no God then there is no standards for proper moral and ethical behavior. Atheists and non-religious people believe that it is up to each individual what those standards are with-in the limits of reasonable laws that set by governments to keep society stable and protect the civil liberties of the people. Contrary to what the religious people think Atheists "do" have a strong sense of right and wrong but not within a rigid, judgmental framework.
ReplyDeleteInstead of "hate" for atheists, a true Christian should show love for them.
ReplyDeleteThat's the missing word here. Yet when Christians feel like they're in a competition to "win souls", not getting the breakthrough can be frustrating.
This is something COG's actually get right - when they teach God is NOT trying to save everyone now. The atheists' turn could come in a general resurrection.
Ed 343
ReplyDeleteWithout the existence of objective morality, right and wrong become mere matters of opinion. What was right and wrong for Hitler probably differs from you.
Several here, other than Byker Bob, probably are not aware of and do not fully appreciate the time and effort required to write, produce, and publish a good song. Music must be written, then lyrics which flow with the music, then someone has to put it altogether. To suggest this time consuming process could be accomplished by just any fool without the equipment, talent and skills is like calling the sacred Holy Scriptures a myth. It doesn't wash!
ReplyDeleteThink about it. What a miraculous work the Bible is, including its claims, content, and how it came about. Just because it's a hard read and we may not comprehend something, is a commentary on us, not the song writer.
Which is it? Are the scriptures the coordinated, inspired product of a Divine mind, or the carnal minds of a bunch of sheep herders thousands of years ago, who surely lacked the skills and imagination to pull it off?
How could a carnal mind come up with such concepts as creation, a "Christ", a plan of redemption, the kingdom of God, objective morality, the righteous end to the civilization of humanity, plus give us the scriptural gems associated with those concepts (Psalms 23, John 3:16, the golden rule, parables of Jesus, the 10 commandments, etc)? THEN coordinate these ideas perfectly across 2 separate and distinct divisions (OT/NT) using multiple languages, writers, and time spans?
The Bible we can hold in our hands is not a myth or the product of the human mind. To suggest so is an insult to our mental reasoning and capabilities.
Actually, the blog and participants have changed with time. Atheism used to be a hot topic. Now? Not so much.
ReplyDeleteI remember years ago, when my younger brother left the church. I asked him what his new beliefs were, and he stated that he had realized that we didn't have many of the critical answers we professed and so he had become agnostic. He saw that as more of an acknowledgement than anything else. At my young age, that was a new word for me. I had no idea it would later find such great traction as a solution to the Armstrong problem. Not bad as a temporary stop, but you wouldn't want it to be your permanent status.
atheism is a thing here because we used to all be part of the COGs and take the bible literally and then when we didnt there was two camps we all fell into
ReplyDelete1. the group that said lets just pretend the bible says whatever we want and chill with the world view
OR
2. the group that said hell no thats nuts and so is the Koran or whatever else option is out there.
Personally Im a big fan of the whole idea of God but the books that describe him kind of make me feel like id be locked up if I went all out with the obedience aspect of what they suggest Id need to do to serve him
Growing up COG for me I read the NT and all I see is "GOD" playing good cop. Its hard to take it seriously after reading the OT first. Whacking fools for not being godfearing Jews for a couple millenia you dont all of a sudden become the all loving God cause you changed youre mind about who you wanted to allow in. The whole thing seems asinine. Making a pivot to the Koran or Buddhism or whatever else would just be ignorant after living that process. Atheism as described in the opening post is simply "not being a theist". Its a safe place to be until something better lands on my head.
I am still trying to decipher what the atheist brother is talking about. I think he is saying that he wants to give us a list of reasons why he is an atheist and we are supposed to receive it as a personal manifesto that cannot be challenged. We could challenge the content, point by point, but we cannot challenge the fact that he believes what he believes because that is his personal, subjective reality and we don’t have that privilege.
ReplyDeleteThis is like Woody Allen saying “the heart wants what it wants.” There is no comeback. But this clearly steps out of the realm of midrash and into the realm of romanticism. It is not about objectivity and science. And it should be noted that the notion that atheism is scientific and Christianity is non-scientific is debatable and cannot be assumed as solid mooring for romanticism. So, far be it from me to judge someone’s heart-felt romantic writing. I can empathize but do not agree.
Scout
I really do envy one aspect of the Atheist religion. It's one and done! You give live the best shot, and then you are just gone! No longer conscious. Eternal peace. Don't get me wrong, I love Christian ethics, they are truly the best way to go. When practiced unselfishly, they have a way of bringing many rewards to yourself and all those around you. Just why do we have to live forever and ever?
ReplyDelete