A Temple Relief Depicting the Egyptians at War with the Sea Peoples under Ramesses III
The Sea Peoples and British-Israelism
The Presence of Europeans in Bronze Age Palestine
By Scout
"At this time the island of Britain was called Albion. It was uninhabited except for a few giants.”
– Geoffrey Monmouth, The History of the Kings of Britain
I saw a giant at the grocery store few weeks ago. He wasn’t just tall and fragile-looking like some giants with endocrine problems. He was tall and also robust. I would say he was about 6’8”. He was broad-shouldered and looked athletic. My guess is that he weighed one hundred pounds more than me. I’m a little over six foot and weigh about 190. But I felt quite small. Seeing someone so large did not disrupt my shopping although his size gave me momentary pause. When I see big people, I just wonder where they get their clothes. I worked with a huge Irish guy one time. He wore a size 17 shoe. Where does one even find something like that? That brings me to Goliath the Philistine.
Archaeogenetics has established that there were people in Palestine during the late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age with the same population genetics as Europeans. But they were not of the tribe of Ephraim. Nor were they of the tribe of Manasseh. They came from a non-Israelite population and their history should be interesting to anyone who is seriously considering the idea of British-Israelism. Goliath is a part of that consideration.
The Sea Peoples and the Philistines
The Sea Peoples were a diverse coalition of people who originated in Southern Europe and West Asia. They fought against and plundered various cities in the eastern Mediterranean. Ramesses III of Egypt repelled a massive invasion of these people during his reign. Ramesses III defeated these seafaring invaders and transplanted some of them to southern Canaan. The Egyptians recorded that among this diverse group of invaders were the Peleset or the Philistines. Other historical evidence indicates that the Philistines came out of the Greek sphere and originated around the Aegean Sea and settled around 1175 BC in Canaan.
The Table of the Clans of Noah in Genesis 10 indicates that the Philistines were Hamitic descendants of Mizraim, another name for the Egyptians. It is entirely plausible that the Sea Peoples, a motley group, could have included these descendants of Adam living in Greece and came to have their name. The precise relationship between the Genesis 10 Philistines, the Sea Peoples and the Europeans is a little vague working from historical references alone. Genetics does much to clarify this.
The Archaeogenetics of the Philistines in Brief
Archaeogeneticist Michal Feldman, in conjunction with the Max Planck Institute, analyzed the genetics of 10 individuals who were excavated in the Philistine city of Ashkelon. The burials date from the Early Iron Age, the 12th Century BCE, a little earlier than the time of David who lived in the 11th Century BCE. She found four infants whose genetics indicated a Southern European ancestry. A Southern European origin for the Philistines is supported by language studies and pottery types. The Philistines are associated with the Aegean and in particular the island of Crete. Crete is thought to be the Caphtor which is mentioned in the tribal name Caphtorim in Genesis 10. Further research indicates that over time these early Europeans were absorbed into the Levantine population.
One of the excavated infants, labelled ASH067, was haplogroup R. This connects these people to the Pontic Steppe Pastoralists who occupied most of Europe. The haplogroup could not be fully sequenced, though markers were identified, so we do not know if it is haplogroup R1b or R1a, respectively corresponding to western Europe and eastern Europe. It is likely that it is R1b because that population existed in the Aegean region. This drives the conclusion, then, that there were Europeans among the mixed population of the Philistines in ancient Palestine. I think that Goliath was one of them.
Goliath the European Giant – Maybe
Goliath was a big guy. But he was not so big that David could not comfortably use his sword (1 Samuel 21:9). My conjecture is that he was a big European – maybe standing at 6’ 8”. The Jews in the time of Christ were on average around 5’ 1” and weighed about 110 pounds. My guess is that the earlier Israelites in the time of David were about that same size. Europeans are a larger people and a big western European would seem like a terrifying giant on the battlefield to the Israelites back then. It’s the case of a guy wearing a size 7 shoe meeting in bellicosity a guy wearing a size 17 shoe in low tech, sword against sword circumstances.
There are, of course, other theories. Malcolm Gladwell made a persuasive argument that Goliath suffered from acromegaly. And there is a possible Biblical connection between Goliath and the sons of Anak who were supposed to be giants. I think the Anakim were big people at one time but I also think that the expression “sons of Anak,” referring to large people, entered the Hebrew language as a figure of speech later. There is also a possibility that he was descended from the Rephaim, another Biblical race of giants. The Talmud asserts that Goliath was descended from a sister of Ruth named Orpah. Further, Ruth and Orpah were both daughters of Moabite King Eglon. And Orpah may have been the mother of other Philistine giants who lived in the city of Gath. The connection between Ruth and Orpah would make David and Goliath distant cousins. Theories abound. One thing that is not theory is the genetic evidence that there were Europeans at one time among the Philistines.
A Challenge to Armstrongists with Money for Archaeology
R1b-M269 is the haplogroup of the British and other Northwest Europeans. This subclade of haplogroup R originated about 13,000 YA in Eastern Europe. If the R1 haplogroup associated with ASH067 in Ashkelon is actually R1b-M269 then it is the earliest occurrence of this haplogroup in ancient Palestine. It places people of European descent in the camp of the enemies of Israel (Might this not have some prophetic significance?). But further, it is a singular occurrence and does not reflect a high-density population in ancient Palestine of R1b-M269. Yet, if G.G. Rupert and HWA are right, British-Israelism would predict that the excavated burials of ancient Palestine should contain R1b-M269 at high density.
Instead of funding the excavation of the City of David or other similar projects, would it not be more valuable to fund excavation that might establish that this high-density population of R1b-M269 at one time existed in ancient Palestine in the area of the thirteen tribes? Imagine the headlines. “Ancient Israel is the Home of the Western European People Based on New DNA Findings.” Think of what a boost that would be to the End-time Work. HWA’s key to prophecy would be underpinned by the best archaeology and technology available to us. If one is confident about British-Israelism, this challenge could be easily and elegantly met and would be well worth the effort.
The Outcome
Up to this point, the presence of Europeans in late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age Palestine as indicated by archaeogenetics is problematical for British-Israelism. The finds at Ashkelon indicate that the early Europeans were not Israelites but were among the Philistine enemies of Israel during the time of the Judges and David. It is true the sample size in small, but I expect more and more data will surface. Perhaps, Goliath himself was a big Western European. That Goliath was related to the British and other western Europeans is a much more plausible hypothesis, based on credible scientific evidence, than the idea that the British are descended from Israel.
Reference
This link contains links to other articles: New DNA Study Suggests Philistines Came from Crete
Thank you Scout for your time and effort with these posts.
ReplyDeleteBritish Israelism, folly magnified indeed. I await a detailed refutation from Dr Bob Thiel and others from the Armstrong clans. Nothing will come of course.
Keep up the good work. An abundance of solid material available which soundly discredits this theology. It’s a dangerous time to be one of the ‘tribe’ at this moment in time. Once thought of as relatively sound, friendly nations, the Anglo peoples are not as friendly as we have seen. On campuses and in cities, and from governments around the globe, due to the tragic Gaza situation, the push to divide our historical homeland is gathering apace. Trouble brewing, and it’s frightening to see. Your post reinforces my opinion that a divorce is coming between the Anglo nations, the USA in particular and Israel. The ‘present’ relationship between Israel and the west is temporary. Your post is fascinating. Keep up the good work, cheers.
What reader has the knowledge to pick the flaws, if any, on the claims made based on haplogroups? I for one, will not go down this rabbit hole.
ReplyDeleteIf British-Israelism is false, the proof should be discernable on a macro and not just on some micro level. Especially when BI makes many bold claims.
I saw a man at my cousin's funeral who was an absolute beast. He had to have been close to 7' tall, and at least 230 lbs with all that muscle. His neck was thicker than my leg, and that's not an exaggeration. Tattoos, purpose in his step, and a cocky look on his face. (He didn't look all that bright, though.) He had a trail of large guys behind him, all at least as big as me, following him like puppies. I don't recall ever seeing a human being that large in person before or since. And to know there are bigger guys than that out there, it just floors me.
ReplyDeleteI thought about Philistines in that moment. I can appreciate the hesitation the Israelites had. Even still, God disregarded all this. I think if I was there, I would go back to God a couple times and ask, "Are you sure you want us to attack them? I mean, are you really sure? Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly here .. really REALLY sure?"
Why is America and Trump on the world news every day and every nation on earth is interested in her? And is the British monarchy around? Why is Israel (Judah) winning against the Arabs and Hamas? I trust the Bible anytime.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 6:16
ReplyDeleteYou wrote, “What reader has the knowledge to pick the flaws, if any, on the claims made based on haplogroups? I for one, will not go down this rabbit hole.”
Genetics is a vetted science and it is not likely that a non-scientific reader is going to find flaws with it. It is not a theory where one opinion I as good as another. One may critique how it is applied in certain cases of research. This is where you take the time to read about the research. My critique of the studies that I cited are that the sample size is small. It would be nice to see more excavations and more genetic determinations. I would like to see a history of migration developed. There is already a start on this. Scientists know that the original Philistines who were a component of the invading Sea Peoples reflected more European ancestry than later generations. This indicates that they were gradually absorbed by the Levantine, haplogroup J population.
What this means is that Europeans were present in small numbers in Palestine as early as the late Bronze Age, the time of David, and were progressively absorbed by the larger Levantine population – mostly haplogroup J. That is not the model that Rupert and Armstrong posit. Their population model asserts that the area of the Ten Tribes was densely populated by Europeans for about 700 years, from the time of Moses to the Assyrian Conquest. Excavated graves should indicate this and, to date, there are no such findings.
You also wrote, “If British-Israelism is false, the proof should be discernable on a macro and not just on some micro level. Especially when BI makes many bold claims.”
I think you are referring to the Sea Gates Theory. This usually comes up. Or the fact that the USA and Britain were great colonizing nations, or the predominance of the USA in prosperity and military prowess. All of this has other explanations and none of it cancels out the genetic evidence. For it to be a proof, it must coincide with the genetic, historical and archaeological evidence. And the lack of a genetic presence of a large population of Europeans living in ancient Palestine is a macro argument.
Don't get me wrong. I am not knocking the haplogroup R people who populate western and eastern Europe. I am one of them. Their worldly accomplishments have been impressive. They form the greatest Gentile nations to have ever existed. Numbering them among the Philistines is not an insult. And the Philistines are probably culturally underrated.
Scout
British Israelism is the same nonsense that Black Israelites espouse. Just the other side of the same false coin.
ReplyDeleteI sort of agree with you on both sides of the spectrum, however the two differ in spirit (attitude). The two also differ in intention. See British Israel is tethered to the birthright blessings, sea gates, throne of David with the throne of England. It also ignores the subjugation that involves the colonization and slavery of the global south. Meanwhile the black Hebrew Israelites correlate the doctrine with the historical subjugation in America. Their attitude is different, it’s to try and find out where they actually came from since they had an ethnogenesis (an ethnic group having to start over). The two look at these (Leviticus 26 & Deuteronomy 28) scriptures differently (on the opposite sides of the spectrum) concerning the blessings and cursings.
DeleteThe Hebrew Israelites sight Deuteronomy 28 and try to tie the curses to what happened during slavery:
30 “You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; you shall plant a vineyard, but shall not gather its grapes.
41 You shall beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours; for they shall go into captivity.
33 A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually.
Again as I asked one of the splinter groups, “ how you get a three and a half year tribulation if you beget children and they end up going into captivity.” They would still be babies. Both groups show a great deal of arrogance, however at least one of them desires to find out what happened to them when they lost their whole culture (history of their names, religion, language, diet, hierarchies, traditions). The Black Israelites come at it from the historical perspective. Armstrongism comes at British Israelism from the prophecy perspective while ignoring their European ancestry and migrations. It always baffled my why Armstrongism continues to use the cursings found in Deut 28/Lev 26 to justify the British Israelism. It's quite a stretch.
Cowboy
Anonymous 7:16 wrote, "Why is America and Trump on the world news every day and every nation on earth is interested in her? And is the British monarchy around? Why is Israel (Judah) winning against the Arabs and Hamas? I trust the Bible anytime."
ReplyDeleteYou have given me the classical Armstrongist response to anyone who criticizes British-Israelism. So, let me give you a classical reply. Geopolitical events do not determine what race people belong to. That determination is made by biological history and DNA. Geopolitical events are soft "proofs." They can be explained by other factors than "God blessing Israel." DNA cannot be explained away.
The fact is, you do not trust the Bible at all. You trust G.G. Rupert and his understudy, HWA and their pseudo-historical notions.
If the theory of British-Israelism is true, it should be able to easily explain the genetic evidence rather than challenging it or ignoring it.
Scout
Anon 7:16....That the USA dominates economically and is a preeminent military power is not a pointer to Israelite heritage. And please don't bring up 'the gates of your enemies' routine. The British royals are not semitic, and you can trust your bible on that one. The Davidic line from Solomon was destroyed, scripture is very clear on this one. Jesus is through David's son Nathan. You're just beating an old horse, that bolted decades ago. The USA and the Brits are a great gentile peoples, no different from many that went before them. But Israel is back home, and even now aliyah from around the globe is occurring as God promised, and Israel His people are returning to their birthright. This semitic peoples are home and you can trust your bible on that.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Israel (Judah) winning against the Arabs and Hamas?
ReplyDeleteThe BI theory states Israel is western english speaking nations in the main whilst Jews are Judah. Hence the use of brackets above.
A major error arises in the Armstrong BI theory because it can be demonstrated, after the Assyrian invasion of the northern kingdom, that Judaens continued to use the name ‘Israelites’ and applied it to themselves.
This fact destroys the prophetic assumption described above. There are several prophecies of Jeremiah where it is clear he used the name ‘Israel’ both for the old northern kingdom as well as for his contemporaries in Judah.
The name of "Jew" and "Israelite" became synonymous terms from about the time of the Captivity. This is shown in the books by Ezra and Nehemiah where the names Judah, and Israelite, are used interchangeably.
Ezra called the returning remnant Jews eight times, and Israel forty times. Nehemiah calls them Jews eleven times and Israel twenty two times. He speaks of “all Israel” being back in the land (Nehemiah chapter 12).
As we have said many times before, it isn't just the DNA, historical, archaeological, and linguistic evidence which disproves Anglo-Israelism. There is overwhelming and abundant Scriptural evidence that disprove it.
ReplyDeleteAs Scout has noted, the greatness of the British of old and the United States now does NOT constitute proof that they are the heirs to the promises made to Abraham. Try this passage on for size: They worshiped the dragon for giving the beast such power, and they also worshiped the beast. “Who is as great as the beast?” they exclaimed. “Who is able to fight against him?” (Revelation 13:4, NLT)
Correct Miller Jones & Lonnie Hendrix , two things can be true at the same time. I posed the question: can you be the “beast” and an “Israelite nation” at the same time? Well according to armstrongism, they have napoleon’s french revolution being of the stock of “Rueben” but also being the beast during that time because of its connection to the Holy Roman Empire.
DeleteThe JW also have the doctrine as the beast too stating Rev 13:11, “another beast coming up out of the earth.” And these individuals came from the region of that first beast (Rev 13:1-4). In verse 12, he (new beast) exercises all the power of the first beast. White America descended from the European nations.
The one aspect about the end time (according to them), is that you don’t want to be the world power at the time of the end, because then that means…..
Cowboy
Hey Scout I was wondering about a few things, by the way another great write up. I was wondering if you had read The Thirteenth Tribe? And considering DNA, I read a while back that they compared a DNA found in an ancient synagog to a modern Israeli and there was little match (because they have been all around Europe for centuries), but the Palestinian had more of a DNA match. I say this because of the (Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9), those who say they are jews (Greek states: Those who say they are from the Tribe of Judah) that are not. And if Satan deceives the whole world, what if genetically those people aren't the real jews, but the world is deceived into believing they are.
ReplyDelete7:16
ReplyDeleteIf you believe the British monarchy still exists because it's the Davidic throne and KCIII is descended from King David, then what about the Japanese imperial family? Their lineage is older, uninterrupted and they even claim divine ancestry. More importantly, according to Scripture, the Davidic throne was passed only through the male line—no female could inherit it. And ultimately, the living heir apparent to that throne is Jesus Christ Himself, who now sits on it in heaven. No earthly mortal, no matter their genealogy, has a greater claim to David's throne than He does.
After the failure of 1972-75, I knew that Herbert Armstrong's national origins and prophecy theories were just plain wrong, and that God had not sent him to us to warn us of the end. Watching the disingenuous back-pedaling done in the aftermath, by him and his organization, further convinced me. We would not be prematurely robbed of the wonderful lives which had always seemed to be in store for the baby boomers. My nonCOG family members, friends, neighbors, and co-workers would not be wiped out and enslaved and tortured by the Germans! It was occasion for much celebration and partying for several years, and then as the 1980s began, it was time to get on with the serious business of life and career. That seemed to be not only happening for us, but also nationally as there was a new sense of pride, emergence, rededication, and the yuppie movement had its genesis.
ReplyDeleteWith such deep programming as we all experienced, it is only natural for occasional second guessing and "what ifs" to come into play, however in the intervening years, so much deeper study has been undertaken that at this late date in many of our lives, those old HWA theories have been totally obliterated by additional facts which had not been known or available to us at the time of their failure. One can either accept and believe new facts, or wear blinders and deliberately reject them in favor of retaining that which they disprove.
This does not mean that there cannot be new concerns, based on other facts, trends, and events, for America and the surrounding world, or concerns about advancing age as a human being. The fact is, there are always threats to a good life, and there are always those who would seek to frighten and control us. Life is finite, and we are all susceptible to age, accident, and disease. When one grows up in the presence of controllers who aspire to become a whole additional layer of government for us, and to insert themselves permanently into our lives, it either weakens and enslaves us, or provides an atmosphere which we fight, ultimately becoming stronger and more successful. Others may have had to fight poverty, lack of education, or growing up in bad neighborhoods to become successful. We simply had another set of repression and negatives. Such is life.
BB
There are major currents in the argument that British-Israelism is false. One of them is that western Europeans are haplogroup R and Jews are haplogroup J. These y chromosome haplogroups are not just different from each other, they are way different from each other. Jacob could not have had a child who was haplogroup J and the rest of his children be haplogroup R. Human heredity does not work that way.
ReplyDeleteOne might ask, “Which line has validity. R or J? Maybe the Jews aren’t really Israelites.” Jesus was born to his own and he came to the Jews of the Middle East and they were haplogroup J. Full stop.
Sometimes British-Israelism supporters seem to suggest that genetics is not science, like chemistry or physics, but a complex and obscure opinion held by non-believers and if someone would just look into it they would discover that it is all wrong. But genetics is real. It is stable. Its results are replicable. It is taught by science departments at the university level all over the world. It is a hard science with the underpinning of chemistry and physics. If that sounds too far out and scientific, then consider that genetics is the reason why a woman does not give birth to a tree or a hippopotamus. God created genetics to keep biological reproduction from going crazy.
Genetics tells us things about ourselves and viewpoints that we don’t like to hear. It tells us that western Europeans are Gentiles. It tells us that HWA is not pure in his generations. It tells us that “pure” western Europeans are a mix of three different ancestral populations. It tells us that the first modern men were Sub-Saharan Blacks and that Whites are mutational descendants of that population. And, finally, it tells us that Europeans were present in ancient Palestine not as Israelites but among the Philistines.
Armstrongists need to wake up and smell the coffee. The identity of Israel as the key to prophecy is a dog that won’t hunt.
Scout
“Armstrongists need to wake up and smell the coffee. The identity of Israel as the key to prophecy is a dog that won’t hunt.”
DeleteOn that notion Scout, I am always reminded of a verse that they even use to justify their understanding of prophecy.
2 Peter 1:21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Armstrongist “key to prophecy” is by the will of men (or one man), it’s a theory, their version of critical race theory. When one honestly looks in the bible you’ll see Daniel, Apostle John, Elijah, Ezekiel and even Paul getting the prophetic word for the proper context through visions, dreams, angelic host or the Lord Himself. For instance even Peter’s vision was one that pertained to the context that the Gentiles were coming into the faith and call no man common or unclean.
This must be a confusing, dangerous sabbath for the COGlodytes! Live munitions over Interstate 5 in Cali. No Kings demonstrations. Whew!
ReplyDeleteBest wishes for a safe day to all those site-seeing in the Camp Pendleton area, or making your voice heard through the pro-democracy protests. I imagine there are a lot of people who still fondly remember the big sit in demonstration and protest at the Hall of Admin during receivership. It was about the only time when they got to act like the hippies! To bad they didn't sumergete en la musica!
Scout @ 7:46:02
ReplyDelete‘The identity of Israel as a key in prophecy is a dog that won’t hurt’…….very true.
I smelled something not quite right with BI when Raymond McNair tried to explain the gulf war from scripture in 1990ish or round about. I remember going over my sermon notes and the scriptures he quoted and came to the conclusion that BI was not so. Anyway I keep my own counsel and a few years later BI turned to custard as a theology within wwcog, and the rest is history. It is not a key to prophecy, and that must be disconcerting to the Armstrong audience as events unfold, unforeseen and unknown despite the best efforts of the ‘ministry’ to imply they are on course lol. You can state the bleeding obvious and still the penny won’t drop. Such is the human condition.
Anonymous 5:09
ReplyDeleteThe Ashkenazi range from 30 and 70 percent Jewish. How do you determine who is a Jew? Nobody is a pure Jew because, like Europeans, the population in the Middle East is part Neanderthal.
I have read The Thirteenth Tribe by Koestler. His theory is that the Ashkenazi are intermarried with Khazars who were of Turkic background. The Turks are mostly a mix of European and Middle Eastern ancestry. They are not Esau or they would all be haplogroup J. They have an affinity for the western and eastern Europeans. Koestler’s work circulated a little bit on the Big Sandy campus back during the rise of Stanley Rader.
Genetics instead indicates that the Ashkenazi are descended in part of southern Europeans, probably from Italian populations. The other big branch of the Jews are the Sephardim. They are a mix of Jewish ancestry and Iberian Peninsula ancestry. I am part Sephardic. So, Koestler’s Khazar Theory is wrong for European Jewry.
The question is, Does God consider the Ashkenazi to be Jews? I don’t know. I would think so. But I am a little part Sephardic and I don’t consider myself a Jew. Where is the cut-off point? And I don’t know if or how Rev 2:9 applies.
The Mizrahi Jews, the Jew who have always lived in the Middle East, are more closely related to the Gazans than any other group. Whereas the Ashkenazi have an affinity for people from the Italian peninsula. My guess is that the Gazans look pretty much like the Jews used to look before they mixed with Europeans and gave rise to the Ashkenazi.
My two cents.
Scout
Scout, your guess and your two cents are worth it, thanks man.
DeleteYou on here all write about genetics and DNA yet in real life judge people badly, to the extent of 'writing people off', according to the present regions of the world they reside in.
ReplyDeleteYou all in real life judge others by individual regional accents labelling their moral, intelligence, educational level and more all by localised regional placement.
DNA and genetics are of no interest to y'all then in real life, only wheeled out as a weapon to fight B.I. belief and write labourously about self.
Ivanka is fully 100% Jewish without a drop of jewish blood. This started in Egypt during the Exodus when many people/strangers joined the Israelites to be Israelites as the bible says.
ReplyDeleteNck
I wrote, "The Mizrahi Jews, the Jew who have always lived in the Middle East, are more closely related to the Gazans than any other group."
ReplyDeleteI want to correct a typo in the statement above. The phrase "the Jew" should have been "the Jews." I was taken to task by a commenter on this blog some years back for this same typo. Apparently, anti-Semites are fond of using the term "The Jew" to refer to the entire Jewish people. While I am not a fan of politically correct speech (it sometimes leads to silliness) I am a fan of not being offensive. One can be analytical and critical without being offensive. Of course, what is offensive is subjective. Some people are offended by the truth.
Scout
"Scouts usually......"
ReplyDelete.... "However The Scout is prone to....."
😁😁
Nck
Thousands of years of various assimilations have made it so that in many cases a given culture has no predominant ethnic characteristics. These have been diluted over time through intermarriage. Cultures have not been static for many decades, and have become amalgamations. How can anyone be accused of forgetting their culture when most of us are multi-ethnic, especially those of us who are Heinz 57 white people. We live in times when all of us are simply ourselves, individuals, although some diluted versions still self-identify with a particular group. Or are identified by others due to a particular hue.
ReplyDeleteIt is ridiculous to hold anybody living today accountable for forgetting their prevailing culture, when even in colonial times, people who were born and raised in melting pot societies were leaving them to travel to seek their fortunes in new magical lands. There are people from all ethnicities and all mixtures who could be described as not appreciating their blessings. You'd need to dna test everyone living in relatively comfortable circumstances to determine which of them carried mostly Abraham's dna. See who qualifies to be punished.
“And Abraham sojourned in the Philistines' land many days.” (Genesis 21:34)
ReplyDeleteIt is important to realize that the OT is written from the perspective of the Jewish people. A sharp point is put on this argument (which is also a hermeneutic for Biblical interpretation) in the case of the Philistines. They were an important group of people. They were not just a band of nettlesome band of orcs like the editors of the OT might suggest. Along with the Israelites and Canaanites, they were a significant cultural presence in Palestine. The Jews were never able to drive them out of the land and, oddly, when Judah went into exile, the Philistines were also carried away with them by the Babylonians. The captured Philistines were probably then assimilated into the Babylonian population.
From the findings of Aren Maeir’s archaeological team:
“The team has found that in the centuries following the Philistines’ arrival, Gath grew and, at its peak in the ninth century B.C., was home to an estimated 10,000 inhabitants. Jerusalem, by comparison, would not reach that size until the eve of its destruction in 586 B.C. Gath’s location straddling trade routes that connected inland copper mines with the coast likely contributed to its status as the most important member of the Philistine Pentapolis and made it one of the most significant city-states in the southern Levant.”
The subject of the Philistine people was extraneous to the purpose and writing of the Bible for the Jewish people. But secular history tells us the Philistines were a significant tribe of people.
This article is well worth reading:
https://archaeology.org/issues/july-august-2022/features/levant-philistine-origins/
Scout
I saw Philistine beer mugs in a museum in Chicago. HUGE. Either they were intended to be shared, or those guys had serious bellies going on.
DeleteAnonymous 8:46 wrote, "Thousands of years of various assimilations have made it so that in many cases a given culture has no predominant ethnic characteristics."
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean but I would word it differently. I would say that no pluralistic society has a single culture. There is a reason why I want to respond to your statement.
The term ethnic can mean a bunch of things, but it is commonly thought of as an equivalent of race. The fact is, the White Europeans that live in the USA are all of the same racial composition. Someon who is half Germand and half Italian is of the same racial composition as someone who is half English and half Norwegian.
I know that is hard to imagine but it works like this. The people of Europe derive their ancestry from three founding groups: Steppe Pastoralists, Anatolian Farmers and Ancient Hunter-Gatherers. These groups correspond roughly to haplogroups R, G and I respectively. The only thing that is different across Europe is the percentage of each of these components. It is like mixing three paint colors together and coming up with different shades.
So, the Europeans in the USA are all the same people although distinctions are made typically in culture that sometimes is a proxy for race.
Scout
Another problem is that until 1850 the word "race" was mostly used for "people".....
ReplyDeleteNorwegian race, swedish race, english race etc etc
I agree... Catholic Philipines are western in many aspects rather than their budhist neighbors.
Nck
Yet DNA results are not fallible as factors like human error, sample contamination, rare genetic conditions and limitations in technology can lead to inaccurate outcomes.
ReplyDeleteAncestry estimates are based on statistical probabilities and interpreting it requires careful consideration as small DNA segments can be misleading.
Also some ethnic traits are inherited more strongly from one ancestor than others.
DNA results with the forensics sure help out the justice department when they find out “who really did it” with those cold cases.
ReplyDelete2:20. That is matching DNA results to identify the same person on a police or medical database, which is complete difference to trying to 100% accurately find what your x20th ancestor was from.
DeleteAnonymous 6:50
ReplyDeleteThat's why I think the evidence needs to accumulate. I would like to see larger sample sizes and tests repeated by different laboratories. But what we see happening now tells you what the wind direction is. The big hurdle is that Jews, like Native Americans, don't want ancient graves to be disturbed.
What we know for sure is that one day scientists will not run an additional experiment and tell us that the whole theory is off, and they need to go back to the drawing boards. Genetics is way too mature for anything like that to happen. Unless one day a woman gives birth to a calf rather than a human baby. Then all bets are off.
Scout