tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post1260330114061995083..comments2024-03-28T09:55:49.032-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: LCG Preaches That Godly Love Is The Most Important QualityNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-64036383576932600562016-03-30T16:35:29.905-07:002016-03-30T16:35:29.905-07:00I have read that too, NJ, but I'm not fully su...I have read that too, NJ, but I'm not fully sure that I buy it. The rabbis were writing well after the relevant point in time, and it sounds to me like they were glossing the brutality inherent in much of "god's law". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-63028644494539917892016-03-30T13:45:51.268-07:002016-03-30T13:45:51.268-07:00If I were HWA's pastor in his first ten years ...If I were HWA's pastor in his first ten years of ministry or GTA's, I would have disfellowshipped them. Ian BoyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-64909570826866103752016-03-30T13:32:23.220-07:002016-03-30T13:32:23.220-07:00I have NEVER disfellowshipped anyone for doctrinal...I have NEVER disfellowshipped anyone for doctrinal reasons. I have disfellowshipped a few for sexual immorality, but never for just a single act. Ian BoyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-70940223009778440162016-03-30T10:32:44.024-07:002016-03-30T10:32:44.024-07:00Did Ian Boyne never disfellowship anyone?
Is that&...Did Ian Boyne never disfellowship anyone?<br />Is that's what's he's trying to say, or is he simply engaging in a whitewashing attempt?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-83877005569871732962016-03-30T10:26:32.985-07:002016-03-30T10:26:32.985-07:00Ian Boyne,
If you've disfellowshipped any mem...Ian Boyne,<br /><br />If you've disfellowshipped any members, please say exactly why you did so.<br />Please be VERY specific.<br /><br />Did you ever disfellowship anyone for stating beliefs which you now profess to believe?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43240113799443804232016-03-30T09:21:50.687-07:002016-03-30T09:21:50.687-07:00Ian, you should know better than to feed the pet-d...Ian, you should know better than to feed the pet-doctrine trolls. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-69698136557737072032016-03-30T09:04:51.307-07:002016-03-30T09:04:51.307-07:00It was extremely hard to put anyone to death in OT...It was extremely hard to put anyone to death in OT times as all capital crime required the eye witness testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses who, 1. could not know one another or be in collusion and 2.saw the crime from different vantage points, ie, not standing as one unit.<br />Circumstantial evidence was not allowed.<br />A warning was given for all first offenders.<br />In the case of the Sota, or alleged adulterous woman she had to voluntarily submit herself to examination of drinking the dust and water. She was not compelled to do it since only her husband was accusing her. She had the option to refuse!<br />This is why the situation of the woman caught in adultery in the NT is significant. What they were doing was mob vengeance, not justice in any way.<br />Anyway, according to most hareidi orthodox rabbinical sources no child was put to death at all, ever. I have learned from Rabbi Avigdor Miller, a renown torah scholar that this was so.<br /> So, in Israel they were never stoning and killing everyone who was accused at all.<br />It was extremely rare.NJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-5265193205549831032016-03-30T08:26:35.256-07:002016-03-30T08:26:35.256-07:00For the LCG to be preaching about love is as bizar...For the LCG to be preaching about love is as bizarre as them teaching on the fruit of the Spirit. In my four years in the WCG with two at AC, I don't recall any preaching on James 1:27 or the Fruit of the Spirit. But, then again, I wasn't the best student or the most outgoing. Hence, I was not hired for "the Work." Thank God for unanswered prayer.Steve Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03186651595432665670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-14753961384865223272016-03-29T22:37:42.558-07:002016-03-29T22:37:42.558-07:00Ian, I suggest you look long and hard at what God ...Ian, I suggest you look long and hard at what God created and what the bible says, rather than some philosopher. My quote isn't meant as a proof, but as a articulation of a position Trade is there in the parable of the talents. Most of proverbs deals with self interest. We are married to our self interest. Always putting others interests first is psychological adultery. <br />I spent dozens of hours driving church members around in my car. When I had a car accident, and asked for a lift to church, all l got was extortionistic demands. People were indignant that ?I asked. This is the churches 'give way' in practise. This is what it really means. When I complained to a minister, he just quoted scriptures dealing with sacrifice. I asked him, how can I survive if people take what I have to offer, and give nothing in return? How do I pay my rent, how do I pay for food and cloths? No answer was offered. I remind you that morality is not divorced from reality, as proverbs repeatedly shows. How do I survive Ian?<br />I've gleaned the 'A theory of moral sentiments,' but have not read the book. I'II get back to that. Have you read the book yourself? <br />You have critised me, but have not stated your own position.<br />Do you believe that you reap what you sow? Y/N<br />Do you believe that ownership is determined by production as in a 'workman is worthy of his wages.' Y/N.<br />Do you believe that our greatest responsibility is to ourselves? Y/N<br />They are simple questions Ian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60793191961935887092016-03-29T17:26:45.735-07:002016-03-29T17:26:45.735-07:00It is clear that anyone who sets up paper tigers a...It is clear that anyone who sets up paper tigers are going to shed some blood from the paper cuts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-24531891832235982652016-03-29T16:35:31.331-07:002016-03-29T16:35:31.331-07:00Anonymous, you seem to be an Ayn Randist and an e...Anonymous, you seem to be an Ayn Randist and an extreme right-winger. Adam Smith, the father of modern capitalism, said famously that you don't have meat on your table because of the altruism of the butcher. But he showed in his book, "A Theory of Moral Sentiments", that "the virtue of selfishness" misguidedly taught by Ayn Rand would ultimately destabilize capitalism. The gross inequalities in America today demonstrate he was right. You reject Herbie's theology, but your ideology seems to be heavily influenced by his own right-wing proclivities. Ian BoyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18936986646125831562016-03-29T14:24:45.129-07:002016-03-29T14:24:45.129-07:00Ian, Your "mutually beneficial partnerships&q...Ian, Your "mutually beneficial partnerships" exist between friends even in a communist society. Herbies 'give way' is not charitable, self-sacrificial giving, or sacrificing within a partnership. These are straw man definitions. The 'give way' (more commonly called altruism) rejects self love, self interest and self profit. Pursuing these is the 'get way' according to Herbie. The give way means slavery to others, it means the game of the unjust steward, it means robbing the givers.<br />As one site defines it:<br />"The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice—which means; self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction—which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good."<br /><br />This is the attitude that permeates the churches. This is simply 'pass the wealth around' bully morality. The losers have a right to life, but the winners do not. Gods win-win way of trade, rests on everyone having a right to life.<br /> <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-11602926876973622922016-03-29T10:17:43.197-07:002016-03-29T10:17:43.197-07:00Ian, you didn't read my treatise on the subjec...Ian, you didn't read my treatise on the subject. You're obviously not willing to be guided by Scripture on this one - that's cherry picking. Moreover, your argument relative to scriptural inerrancy is a great example of circular reasoning - makes one wonder who has erected a straw man in this discussion.Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865316200703641028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-54010036993363788542016-03-29T09:52:12.121-07:002016-03-29T09:52:12.121-07:00@Anonymous 11:46: I don't understand what exac...@Anonymous 11:46: I don't understand what exactly you are asking. I do teach mutually beneficial partnerships as well as the importance of giving and being self-sacrificial. I don't see the two as being contradictory. Perhaps there is something I am missing. Ian BoyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-76821419278244794942016-03-29T08:09:58.841-07:002016-03-29T08:09:58.841-07:00Was it "Godly love" that drove LCG leade...Was it "Godly love" that drove LCG leadership to allow a lawsuit to be brought against the church instead of just sitting down and talking to people like Christian adults before the situation elevated to that level?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-22051245130577018532016-03-29T08:06:37.495-07:002016-03-29T08:06:37.495-07:00To the 1st anon: it's not just the Scarborough...To the 1st anon: it's not just the Scarborough's. Meredith has left a wake of abused members in his wake. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84552325853540600162016-03-29T08:04:39.843-07:002016-03-29T08:04:39.843-07:00on March 29, 2016 at 12:38 AM
Byker Bob wrote:
&q...on March 29, 2016 at 12:38 AM<br />Byker Bob wrote:<br /><br />" If ministers were willing to work as spiritual guides, literally feeling that losing anyone was a huge failure for which they might be held accountable, most of the disfellowshipments and markings would go away."<br /><br />Truer words were never spoken. God says to leave the whole flock to go after that one sheep that's gone astray. <br /><br />I'm not saying that there isn't a case where the minister was left with no other option but it should be the last resort after exhaustive counseling and loving support from the minister. <br /><br />LCG's use of disfellowshipping and marking is arbitrary and punitive. Ministers like McNair are self righteous, lazy and use their power to bully and abuse members. It's pure evil. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48133744940885970312016-03-29T06:30:34.587-07:002016-03-29T06:30:34.587-07:00Ian Boyne wrote:
Your Utopian quest for perfect c...Ian Boyne wrote:<br /><br />Your Utopian quest for perfect church leaders leaders is precisely what has created leaders such as the Armstrongs .<br /><br />There's a lot of wisdom in that statement.<br /><br />But on the other hand, there are LCG members who come on this blog and admit that Rod and his henchmen are vile and despicable men but they stay in LCG because Rod has convinced them that it is "the True Church".<br /><br />So I would expand Ian's statement to say that the Utopian quest for the perfect something (leaders, church, inerrant scriptures) is precisely what has created leaders such as the Armstrongs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-4990048398894258172016-03-29T04:55:24.138-07:002016-03-29T04:55:24.138-07:00on March 29, 2016 at 12:38 AM
Byker Bob wrote:
&q...on March 29, 2016 at 12:38 AM<br />Byker Bob wrote:<br /><br />" If ministers were willing to work as spiritual guides, literally feeling that losing anyone was a huge failure for which they might be held accountable, most of the disfellowshipments and markings would go away."<br /><br />Having been through that kind of experience I can only agree.<br /><br />cheers<br />ralph.fRalphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09094056276430807523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43758612132936065692016-03-29T03:55:55.659-07:002016-03-29T03:55:55.659-07:00Ian, if you're interested in a Scriptural pers...Ian, if you're interested in a Scriptural perspective on the subject, here is the link to the first post in a FOUR part series on the subject: http://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2014/04/does-god-approve-of-practice-of.html?m=1Miller Jones/Lonnie C Hendrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865316200703641028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60449357266635858942016-03-29T03:50:57.732-07:002016-03-29T03:50:57.732-07:00It is my understanding that the death penalty was ...It is my understanding that the death penalty was rarely carried out because in most cases the person could be redeemed, by paying a fine, such as in the case of a rebellious son (Deut 21:18-21)). But a murderer could not be redeemed. In Num 35:31 is says, "do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer . . he must surely be put to death." So why classify so many crimes as capital offenses? The reason was to impress upon the Israelites the seriousness of the crime. <br />Steve Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03186651595432665670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-31475868869950073022016-03-29T02:57:01.842-07:002016-03-29T02:57:01.842-07:00this is the second or third time that dr. winnail ...this is the second or third time that dr. winnail has brought up the subject of love since the time years ago he claimed love was secondary to preaching the Gospel...<br /><br />years ago i wrote to the Church that preaching love is central, not secondary, so i am hopeful..but i fear this talk of love is not of lcg, but merely of winnail himself, and therein is potential for conflict...<br /><br />nevertheless, i am glad that he is trying and hopeful the Spirit of Love becomes the cornerstone to the Work because it is desperately needed...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-70276435964741632292016-03-29T00:38:53.229-07:002016-03-29T00:38:53.229-07:00I remember growing up as a young WCG boy, and havi...I remember growing up as a young WCG boy, and having my parents say to me, "Bob, do you know what would be happening to you if we lived in ancient Israel? We'd be taking you to the priests and telling them that we could not control you, and you would then be stoned to death!"<br /><br />Years later, I had an opportunity to participate in a discussion with a Jewish scholar who shed some additional light on this subject. He said that in Jewish history, the stoning of teenagers was a relatively rare occurrence, because the rabbis had the wisdom to work with the rebellious children who had been brought to them, figuratively "buying them back". They would end up being returned to the parents, the problem having been corrected. But, the ACOG drama queens always had to go to the most extreme.<br /><br />Disfellowshipment is treated just as extremely. If ministers were willing to work as spiritual guides, literally feeling that losing anyone was a huge failure for which they might be held accountable, most of the disfellowshipments and markings would go away.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-67974670818828033602016-03-28T23:46:21.795-07:002016-03-28T23:46:21.795-07:00Ian, again, do you believe in the 'give way...Ian, again, do you believe in the 'give way' or trade? It's a simple question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-57372396774394123562016-03-28T19:31:04.699-07:002016-03-28T19:31:04.699-07:00Amen Miller Jones!!!Amen Miller Jones!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com