tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post162812940226848086..comments2024-03-28T14:49:35.135-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Atheism - How many gods do YOU not believe in?NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-44203821728743721312018-04-20T15:38:53.936-07:002018-04-20T15:38:53.936-07:007.50 AM
Stephan Hawking found himself in a difficu...7.50 AM<br />Stephan Hawking found himself in a difficult situation which is experienced by many. <br />When Christ spoke the truth in His home town, they tried to throw Him off a cliff. <br />The religious leaders threatened to put out of the temple those who acknowledged Christ. Today this would be the equivalent of being marginalized and shunned by ones professional peers and perhaps being avoided by ones customers. So one commonly finds self help books that blame the effects of sin on such things as sex (eg, Freud) or on neurosis or similar. Sin is either not mentioned or tip toed around. People like Stephan keep their mouths shut about God.<br /><br />This is the compromise they make in order to survive in the real world, and I leave it to God to judge these people.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-38062160198177232382018-04-20T08:06:27.239-07:002018-04-20T08:06:27.239-07:00Dennis wrote: "God as revealed by scripture o...Dennis wrote: "God as revealed by scripture on many topics has had to yield to science."<br /><br />No doubt that OT Biblical detail has had to yield to science albeit without yielding the meaning of principle. The mistake you are making is that you are centered on the Old Testament for your "doctrine of god." And, of course, you feel that science has this god on the run. In fact to achieve this you make an error that you accuse others of - that is, you have become a Biblical literalist. Much of what you would consider error, I would venture, is developed by converting allegory and symbolism, like the talking snake of Eden, to some form of literalism. And literalism is always subjective - no two people will agree on what a "literal" interpretation of a Bible passage actually is. <br /><br />Another mistake you make is common among atheists. It is "wrapping yourself in the mantle of science." Such as the statement:<br /><br />"Science does not point for truly dedicated scientific inquiry to "undeniable divine presence."<br /><br />"For truly dedicated scientific inquiry" is nothing more than a personal bias that recruit science to your cause. I could contend the same thing for my point of view (and did). Nothing is resolved. <br /><br />None of your statement responds to the substance of what I wrote. <br /><br />A sidebar: Why is your syntax so bad in these posts? Are you using some kind of a strange text editor? I don't know if I am responding to your statement or to some error introduced by a software product. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487906691943831671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-47741595700708461582018-04-20T07:57:52.673-07:002018-04-20T07:57:52.673-07:00It is only a theory that Mars once had water. The...It is only a theory that Mars once had water. They have not found the water or explained, with any supporting proof, where it went to. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6275882373289300212018-04-20T07:50:48.286-07:002018-04-20T07:50:48.286-07:00Stephen Hawking was deceitful because, in his book...Stephen Hawking was deceitful because, in his book for the public, "A Brief History of Time," he used the word 'God' in way that he knew would be misunderstood by the public. I.e. he intentionally misled his readers. Little did the public know 'God' is often used by physicists as a code word for 'The Universe', when they are not necessarily talking about God at all. <br /><br />Kind of like how physicists talk about the "God Particle" even if they don't think this particle has anything to do with God, but is a key to understanding the universe. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-21268706681495097352018-04-20T07:41:55.009-07:002018-04-20T07:41:55.009-07:00Retired Prof:
For an excellent review of Dennett&...Retired Prof:<br /><br />For an excellent review of Dennett's approach to the issue of Theism, have a look at:<br /><br />https://www.firstthings.com/article/2007/01/daniel-dennett-hunts-the-snarkAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487906691943831671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84932724692263299692018-04-20T06:16:09.350-07:002018-04-20T06:16:09.350-07:00252 said "But is there even a Dennis whose co...252 said "But is there even a Dennis whose consciousness will exist as Dennis after you die? There's just about as much evidence that you will live after this life as that you lived before this life. So, it seems that your task is to live this one life as ethically and expertly as possible, and to let go of too much worry about the before and after. "<br /><br />This is my view as well. Enjoyed your perspective in your whole comment and agree. All the factors that have led to the world we see are truly amazing. No doubt about it and as we learn more we can appreciate it more. Also, we are searching for those exoplanets that might also have thrived and produced life of their own in their "Goldilocks Zone" Hope I live long enough to find out or at least that Mars, which once had much water before it lost its atmosphere, had life as well. DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84644609960823992852018-04-20T06:09:22.643-07:002018-04-20T06:09:22.643-07:00Anonymous said...
Dennis wrote:
I believe whoever... Anonymous said...<br />Dennis wrote:<br /><br />I believe whoever, or whatever God is, if so, he/she/it is benevolent.<br />I understand that you want to believe that. But you also seem to want to be a rational and science-minded observer. So, how can you believe that a benevolent God oversees this universe?<br /><br />I don't in reality. It would be more accurate to put that in the "What I'd hope to be true if..." or "If I thought there was a supreme being , it would be benevolent" etc as opposed to what we find in the OT and demanding blood without which there can be no forgiveness of sins etc. DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-1831368217080277612018-04-20T05:40:39.175-07:002018-04-20T05:40:39.175-07:00Anon 3:38 comments are in my opinion the core trut...Anon 3:38 comments are in my opinion the core truth. A truth that is never discussed and only whispered about behind closed doors. <br />Whether God himself will kick open the door on the hypocrisy of it all would not surprise me. <br />It is a mess with true believers being lorded over by obvious burnt out atheists, egomaniacs and blatant sinners.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48173929863664154312018-04-20T03:38:28.600-07:002018-04-20T03:38:28.600-07:00Dennis wrote that "I believe most ministers I...Dennis wrote that "I believe most ministers I know teach one thing and believe another in their hearts but what the heck."<br /><br />Speaking as an LCG "church youth" I must agree with Dennis. Even the young people who attended Living University usually fell into one of two categories, going there either to please their parents or to "get ahead" in the church. Nearly every one I ever had an honest talk with would admit to some private beliefs very different from what the church teaches. Apparently, that's also true of the LU faculty. The rare LU students who arrived as "true believers" were typically the ones who had the worst time there, as they kept having their illusions shattered, but even some who had their illusions shattered decided to press forward and try to get hired full-time and make a career out of something they didn't really believe. What a mess!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-49587552612243075532018-04-20T03:01:25.532-07:002018-04-20T03:01:25.532-07:00Dennis wrote:
I believe whoever, or whatever God ...Dennis wrote:<br /><br /><i>I believe whoever, or whatever God is, if so, he/she/it is benevolent.<br /></i><br /><br />I understand that you want to believe that. But you also seem to want to be a rational and science-minded observer. So, how can you believe that a benevolent God oversees this universe?<br /><br />To put it bluntly, all living organisms on Earth feed on the death of other living organisms. Without death, Earth's ecosystem would collapse quickly. With death comes suffering and impermanence and loneliness and loss. Any God who created Earth's ecosystem is a cruel entity that enjoys seeing living entities suffer. Such a god is not much different from a little boy who cruelly tears the wings off of flies or incinerates ants with a magnifying glass. Such a "god" is either the gnostic Demiurge or is the warden of Hell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-8975220998754749252018-04-20T02:52:12.631-07:002018-04-20T02:52:12.631-07:00Dennis,
You might be very encouraged and inspired...Dennis,<br /><br />You might be very encouraged and inspired by studying some of the mathematical work that reveals the sheer improbability of conscious life existing in our universe. I know there are some scientists who say, "Conscious life is extremely improbable, and if there are multiverses such life is extremely rare. However, even if it only occurs in 1 out of every billion trillion universes, that one universe is the only one where there is an awareness of this rarity, so it's not such a surprise." But that's a cheap dodge to downplay just how extraordinary your existence truly is, whether you attribute that existence to a deity or to un-sentient math and physics.<br /><br />That said, our improbability is so great that it is very easy to envision us as the product of intelligent design, whether that intelligence is running us as a computer simulation or is some kind of transcendent deity. What is hard to envision, though, is the idea that this deity has a "plan for all of mankind." The ACOG answer is compelling to some for precisely this reason. If God is in fact "calling" everybody in their one human lifetime, He is either an incompetent or a sadist, as He has certainly done a terrible job of sharing His message in a way that the brains He created can assimilate it rationally.<br /><br />So, if there's a God, He is more of a Deist "blind watchmaker" than a micromanaging chess player. Or, He has an individual plan for each individual soul, quite separate from any one religion or "seven-thousand-year plan."<br /><br />But is there even a Dennis whose consciousness will exist as Dennis after you die? There's just about as much evidence that you will live after this life as that you lived before this life. So, it seems that your task is to live this one life as ethically and expertly as possible, and to let go of too much worry about the before and after. <br /><br />All of this means that if God exists and is working with you individually, that's between you and God, and He isn't asking you to be a prophet sharing His message with others. You aren't the boss of Bob Thiel (nor vice versa). You have more than enough to do using the brain and heart you have (or that God gave you) to their fullest.<br /><br />In the meantime, if you see people arguing about what God did or didn't say, it's a safe bet that God said none of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-78820279302521596632018-04-19T22:44:33.695-07:002018-04-19T22:44:33.695-07:0010.14 PM
HWAs deceit has been detailed many times ...10.14 PM<br />HWAs deceit has been detailed many times on this blog.<br />If someone is going to accuse Stephan Hawking or similar with deceit, it's only moral to give supporting evidence.<br /><br />Just because this is dissident site, doesn't mean it's posters are lawless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12427281634068056082018-04-19T22:44:13.480-07:002018-04-19T22:44:13.480-07:00N_E_O recommends: "Please refer to the book &...N_E_O recommends: "Please refer to the book "Mind and Cosmos" for the fundamental reasons why materialism cannot account for the human mind - written by an atheist and professor of philosophy."<br /><br />R. P. recommends: please refer to "From Bacteria to Bach and Back: The Evolution of Minds" for a plausible narrative about how materialism can account for the human mind--written by an atheist and professor of philosophy.Retired Profnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-45292724649870719182018-04-19T22:14:46.910-07:002018-04-19T22:14:46.910-07:00Anonymous said...
4.59 PM
Stephan Hawking was dece...Anonymous said...<br />4.59 PM<br />Stephan Hawking was deceitful because.... and because....<br /><br /><br />Herbert Armstrong was deceitful because...because...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-45876167473773872572018-04-19T21:10:59.429-07:002018-04-19T21:10:59.429-07:00Correction: Universe..."14.5 billion"Correction: Universe..."14.5 billion"Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266112796114131485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-1869999625905901582018-04-19T20:55:52.850-07:002018-04-19T20:55:52.850-07:00continued
What do I believe literally?
I do beli...continued<br /><br />What do I believe literally?<br /><br />I do believe humans are hairless, evolved hominids that arrived by the process of evolution <br />I believe the earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old and the Universe 4.5 billion years old. <br />I believe Creationists are dishonest and in denial. I believe they'd say the same about me. <br />I believe you will never find Noah's Ark on any mountain where an elephant would fall to it's death trying to descend or a kangaroo would know how to get back to Australia, and no other place, from.<br />I believe the Discovery Channel and National Geographic Specials are more informative than the plain, present, current, restored, living, united, reconstituted, upheld, redacted, methodical, congregational, catholic, universal, united or revisited truth ever was.<br />I believe human beings can act out "prophecy" and attract evil to themselves and the planet and yet still get no Second Coming for all their trouble.<br />I believe most ministers I know teach one thing and believe another in their hearts but what the heck. <br />I believe that most religious authorities, including Bible characters, prophets, priests and kings, suffer and suffered from delusions, illusions, imbalances and in some cases, outright mental illnesses.<br />I believe we have allowed the mentally unstable or ill to lead us down the wrong path.<br />I believe I have to take personal responsibility for having allowed that to happen.<br />I believe there are many very sincere balanced people in religion who just want to know the truth.<br />I believe the ego motivates many to an unreasonable and inaccurate view of themselves.<br />I believe these types of religious, and in some cases "God haunted" individuals, can rise to high positions in the world of religion.<br />I believe there are some reading this just itching to wish death upon me for not believing what they believe.<br />I believe we are all entitled to believe what we want or need to believe based on our own life experience, needs and ability or desire to look or not look outside the box we came in.<br />I believe it does not matter what I believe.<br />I believe if I understand, then things are as they are and if I don't understand, then things are still as they are.<br /><br />What do I believe Spiritually?<br /><br />I believe we are all one small part of the same one big thing.<br />I believe we became conscious and self aware for some reason I don't yet understand but mostly in the last 4000 years.<br />I believe I was born right the first time.<br />I believe whoever, or whatever God is, if so, he/she/it is benevolent.<br />I believe that life is amazing and our true origins are incredible<br />I believe I have always been very, very sincere in what I believed or do believe.<br />I believe everything will be ok.<br /><br />What I'd like to believe<br /><br />I'd like to believe we are a spirit trapped in a mere five sensed carbon based wetsuit that someday we can shed and experience wonderful things forever. <br /><br />What do you believe?DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3810990016820567292018-04-19T20:55:22.406-07:002018-04-19T20:55:22.406-07:00And to be clear:
I don't believe the Bible i...And to be clear:<br /><br /><br />I don't believe the Bible is literally true, "God-Breathed" or inerrant.<br />I don't believe serpents and donkeys can talk... ever.<br />I don't believe in Satan or millions of demons as portrayed by religion<br />I don't believe in angels, based on way too many experiences<br />I don't believe many of the accounts of Old Testament exploits of the Israelites are true.<br />I don't believe the first 11 Chapters of Genesis are literally true or tell us anything about origins, geology or reality in the history of humankind.<br />I don't believe God, as portrayed in the Bible, is anywhere near how a real God would be.<br />I don't believe the Old Testament portrays a consistent picture of monotheism nor do I believe the Israelites, including Abraham and Moses were monotheists.<br />I don't believe the story of Jesus birth, life and death are unique in the history of the world.<br />I don't believe the Gospel Accounts are eyewitness accounts or harmonious in their portrayal of events.<br />I don't believe anyone had a clue about the birth circumstances of Jesus and the authors of Matthew and Luke had a need to make one up based on OT scripture and not facts.<br />I don't believe they chose the same OT scriptures to tell a consistent story.<br />I don't believe the Apostles, as portrayed in the NT, agreed with each other nor had a common faith and view of who and what Jesus was or was meant to be.<br />I don't believe Jesus ever intended to start a church.<br />I don't believe there ever was one true church, consistent in thought, word, practice and deed from the beginning.<br />I don't believe there is one true church to find.<br />I don't believe Paul was a team player nor that his gospel was the same as that of the direct students of Jesus, if that story is true.<br />I don't believe Paul wrote everything he is said to have written.<br />I don't believe the Book of Revelation has relevance anymore and is a failed first century "prophecy.''<br />I don't believe human beings should invest their life energy in those who use the Book of Revelation, which seems to need them to reveal it, to motivate others in fear, compliance and adherence to cultic behaviors and outcomes.<br />I don't believe a lot of things...<br /><br />Theologically: (and this is tough with my background to put down.)<br /><br />I don't believer in atonement by execution<br />I don't believe we bear any sin as a result of any Adam and Eve antics.<br />I don't believe in being piously convicted about anything yet marginally informed about everything.<br />I don't believe Jesus died the worst death of any human being ever or you never heard of General Crawford.<br />I don't believe in chosen people leaving others unchosen.<br />I don't believe (or understand)? why the weekend inconvenience of Jesus "death and ultimate sacrifice" is real if shortly after you get to come back better than ever.<br />I don't believe human beings are defective in a way that can be remedied by religion.<br />I don't believe the heart of man is mostly "deceitful above all things and desperately wicked." It depends on who you hang with.<br />I don't believe without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. ("I forgive you" will do just fine).<br />I don't believe any God is three gods, or three gods revealed as one god, and is still not polytheistic in nature.<br />I don't believe in hell as punishment either by annihilation or eternal death.<br />I don't believe dunking, sprinkling or dabbing humans with water changes them.<br />I don't believe I have met a lot of humans have changed by being dunked, sprinkled or dabbed.<br />And I don't believe in a lot of other things I sincerely used to believe.<br /><br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-29181073428327140152018-04-19T20:43:50.277-07:002018-04-19T20:43:50.277-07:004.59 PM
Stephan Hawking was deceitful because.... ...4.59 PM<br />Stephan Hawking was deceitful because.... and because....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34579647894985425222018-04-19T20:40:53.451-07:002018-04-19T20:40:53.451-07:00"Good science done well over time produces th..."Good science done well over time produces the ever shrinking Bible God as well." <br /><br />This statement cannot be supported."<br /><br />Of course it can. God as revealed by scripture on many topics has had to yield to science . Every question that "God" put to Job to put him in his place back in the day is clearly understood now and would not be questions any modern god could get away with asking as if we did not know the answers. <br /><br />Perhaps you just mean your made up first cause God, who is not the God of the Bible?<br /><br />Now is your "not Bible God" still the one who became flesh, sacrificed himself in a weekend mellow drama coming back better than ever, a few days later, which is really not a sacrifice at all and pays for my sins along with the quilt we all have of Original sin committed by mythological persons who never did any such thing? <br /><br />Tell me who your God is in detail? And tell me where you found him/her/it. If it's a first cause God, so what. Where did it go since then and of what practical help and comfort is it to humans now? Does it have a place where the good us go? Does it love us and have a plan for us? Or is it just a first cause , I gotta go, kinda god?<br /><br />Or is your not the Demiurge God just a bigger made up version, less jealous, less genocidal and less loving to be worshipped, the existence of which also cannot ever be proven?<br /><br />Science does not point for truly dedicated scientific inquiry to "undeniable divine presence." Maybe yours does. I know Dave Pack's does but he did not do so well defending or proving that when he tried. <br /><br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12054949664435903922018-04-19T19:49:49.793-07:002018-04-19T19:49:49.793-07:00"Religious people ridicule atheists for belie..."<i>Religious people ridicule atheists for believing that life came from non-life but would a religious person please explain to me how God created the universe from nothing!</i>"<br /><br />Religious people ridicule atheists for <i>not</i> believing, <i>of all possible gods</i> that <i>their</i> god brought forth the universe from nothing, and life from non-life.<br /><br />But would religious people please explain why, if their god doesn't need an explanation for its existence, that the universe does?<br /><br />And if life can never ever arise from non-life under any circumstances, not even the simplest forms of it, then if your god is living, where did the life of this god come from, and why is he so complex? If you're satisfied that the existence of such a complex being needs no explanation, why does life of any type found here on earth require one?<br /><br />If you claim your god doesn't need to be explained, and that your god is just a brute fact, why wouldn't it just as satisfactory of a theory to back up one and let the naturalistic be the brute fact instead, rather than appealing, rather unnecessarily, to the supernatural?Clair Voighentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-53438009382717823502018-04-19T18:35:37.100-07:002018-04-19T18:35:37.100-07:00Dennis wrote:
"Good science done well over t...Dennis wrote:<br /><br />"Good science done well over time produces the ever shrinking Bible God as well." <br /><br />This statement cannot be supported. Science (done well - whatever that means)is the application of a certain method of inquiry and evaluation, the scientific method, to observation. A method of inquiry does not permit you to make predictions such as this. As Einstein said, one contravening point of data may overturn an entire theory. One day science may encounter a data point that proves the existence of God. The scientific method does not permit you to categorically predict the future either for or against the existence of God. <br /><br />It is not true that science will explain more and more until we abandon all notion of the existence of God. There are essential concepts that science will never explain such as: <br /><br />1. The nature of the uncaused first cause. This is a category that lies outside the purview of science.<br /><br />2. The nature and origin of reality itself - for the same reason.<br /><br />3 The nature and origin of existence itself - for the same reason.<br /><br />To ignore these fundamental principles and focus on only the observable is to deny the ontological and erroneously hang everything on the demiurgic. You will not find the popular atheists talking about how existence itself came to be. Existence is always assumed.<br /><br />Moreover, it is not true that science results in a shrinking god. In a critically important area, science points to an undeniable divine presence. There is no materialistic explanation as to why Dennis Diehl can understand the advanced concept of science as a form of systematic inquiry. Materialism supports the evolutionary processes of mutation and natural selection. Natural selection will create a mentation that is focused on biological survival. Materialism will not produce an advanced mentation that implements abstract thought and aesthetic and moral development. (Please refer to the book "Mind and Cosmos" for the fundamental reasons why materialism cannot account for the human mind - written by an atheist and professor of philosophy.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487906691943831671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-16114128262770804072018-04-19T17:17:28.999-07:002018-04-19T17:17:28.999-07:00Religious people ridicule atheists for believing t...Religious people ridicule atheists for believing that life came from non-life but would a religious person please explain to me how God created the universe from nothing! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-72426545131408824072018-04-19T17:08:00.560-07:002018-04-19T17:08:00.560-07:00well, i guess the fact that malaria is on the rise...well, i guess the fact that malaria is on the rise again in some african nations as a result of resistence to the drugs is an example of the limitations of "good science"...<br /><br />"good science" hasnt been effective in stemming the rise of stds in a certain age group, or stemming the rise in cervical cancer resulting from sinful sexual activity... <br /><br />"good science" fighting pestilence and other curses is like the babylonians engineering the tower to escape the flood; its vanity...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12454387391506957062018-04-19T16:59:59.466-07:002018-04-19T16:59:59.466-07:00Stephen Hawking was deceitful.
Stephen Hawking was deceitful. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34770080270289235662018-04-19T16:58:15.327-07:002018-04-19T16:58:15.327-07:00"Now faith is the substance of things hoped f..."Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." KJV<br /><br />"Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen." ISV<br /><br />"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the sign that the things not seen are true." BBE<br /><br />the way you twisted and misquoted that simple Scripture (and hence redefined its message) is metaphoric, typical of the non believer, and, frankly, further evidence of the kind of arrogance a human being tends to exhibit, whether believer or no...<br /><br />c f ben yochananAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com