tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post2495862077719421337..comments2024-03-29T01:36:52.100-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Are the LCG members who post here "fake" insiders and "bitter" liars?NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-56539773160371230092018-02-27T13:22:16.004-08:002018-02-27T13:22:16.004-08:00No, that was Ken Giese's time.No, that was Ken Giese's time.RSKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427255805476848046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-59236265626168676722018-02-24T18:20:17.078-08:002018-02-24T18:20:17.078-08:00RSK said...
Yes, that was for you TB. I forge...RSK said...<br /><br /> Yes, that was for you TB. I forget that the mobile version I'm looking at shows direct replies while the desktop version doesnt.<br /> We were at Richmond briefly, left in 82.<br /><br />RSK....did you have Bob Jones and Val Burgett as your ministers...?? I thought they were both fine men, and they were both very good to me and my family.<br /><br />Feel free to email me if you wish: kingair001@aol.com<br /><br /><br /><br />ToddTrue Breadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04630174767307245168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-72304714730103404972018-02-23T15:47:37.128-08:002018-02-23T15:47:37.128-08:00Anon 8:24, how do you know for a fact that the &qu...Anon 8:24, how do you know for a fact that the "people were treated so badly" (i.e. some of the Scarboroughs?) As far as I can tell, you've only heard and read one side of the story. Their side of course. And these people would "never" mislead or mischaracterize their part in any of this, right? People, especially those who have no agenda whatsoever, just don't do that sort of thing! These inherently evil COGs are the real devils in every shape and form, they are the ones who need to be stopped and vilified and condemned! Right? And you yourself would "never" automatically take sides against a particular type of organization that you already have preconceived notions about, would you? Of course not!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-28287310364842880452018-02-23T15:42:47.657-08:002018-02-23T15:42:47.657-08:00Who will Gerald Weston ordain next as an evangelis...Who will Gerald Weston ordain next as an evangelist?<br /><br />Rob Tyler? He wants it, and he is responsible for a huge portion of the planet, but he is very young and ordaining him would spread discontent among the older Pastor-rank ministers.<br /><br />Mario Hernandez? He is doing the work of an evangelist, in Central and South America, as well as in Europe. His presence as an outside leader helps keep a lid on the jealousies and rivalries between different national groups in those areas. The problem with ordaining him is that he teaches some doctrinal and practical matters very differently than the English-speaking LCG areas, and if he is ordained there will be upset among the Pastor-rank ministers who don't teach their own ideas and speculations.<br /><br />Jonathan McNair? He is now LCG's #1 educator, with nothing more than a BA from Ambassador University. With PhDs and Evangelist-rank ministers under his authority, he needs something to set him above as a credible leader. Watch for him to be ordained as an Evangelist for organizational and bureaucratic reasons.<br /><br />Rod McNair? Rod will soon enough replace Doug Winnail as CAD Director. Watch for an Evangelist ordination to go along with that promotion. <br /><br />With these other ordinations, it would be an insult for Wally Smith and Wyatt Cieisielka to remain as Pastor-rank ministers. Watch for them to be caught up in a wave of mass ordinations to Evangelist rank. <br /><br />Scott Winnail? He considers himself qualified, but his prospects are slim. If he stays involved with LCG education, he'll be reporting to Jonathan McNair, and it would be awkward to have one Evangelist reporting to another. On the other hand, if he moves to a field pastorate, that isn't Evangelist work. If he can swing a Regional Pastor job he might end up as an Evangelist, otherwise he appears to have plateaued at Pastor rank. Scott and his father represent a an approach that Gerald Weston has repudiated with his selection of Jonathan McNair, and with his support of Rod McNair and Wyatt Ciesielka. Watch for them to make the leap to UCG or COGWA. UCG already has a congregation in Charlotte, but the COGWA congregation closest to Charlotte is 90 minutes away. If father and son Winnails became the pastors of a COGWA congregation in Charlotte, I expect they would quickly have a congregation larger than the LCG congregation, and the LCG congregation would be reduced to LCG employees and their families. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-70507860941842626762018-02-23T14:32:50.144-08:002018-02-23T14:32:50.144-08:00Many LCG members were holding out hope that Gerald...Many LCG members were holding out hope that Gerald Weston was taking his time to bring positive change to LCG HQ.<br /><br />Unfortunately, with the move of Jonathan McNair to Charlotte, most of that hope has been dashed. Jonathan McNair is a lot like his brother Rod, not very bright but very spoiled and political and eager to kiss up to his superiors at the expense of the brethren. He is much more like his Uncle Raymond than like his father Carl.<br /><br />People who were hoping that Mr. Weston could see through the machinations of Rod McNair and Wyatt Ciesielka have now seen that his discernment is not what they had hoped. About all we can hope for is that the intense politicking among the HQ ministers may keep them busy competing against each other and distract them from doing more damage to the brethren.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-90956518769624727772018-02-23T08:24:20.836-08:002018-02-23T08:24:20.836-08:00Anon 5:13 is representative of the type of immatur...Anon 5:13 is representative of the type of immature, heartless, condescending and ignorant person that is very typical in LCG. <br /><br />I have Facebook friends from all the ACOGs and the LCGers never cease to amaze me with their judgemental arrogance and childishness (like typing in all caps and quoting LCG literature instead of the Bible to prove their point).<br /><br />The fact that 5:13 has no empathy for members of God’s church who were treated so wrongly really tells us all we need to know about his or character. I can almost guarantee that 5:13 thinks they are making it to the kingdom (and will have a high position) and the rest of us won’t make the cut. Superiority complex is another LCG defining characteristic. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60909840993369299162018-02-23T08:00:03.218-08:002018-02-23T08:00:03.218-08:002.00 AM
Ron Fraser was a public figure, so your &#...2.00 AM<br />Ron Fraser was a public figure, so your 'shame for writing bout him' doesn't wash.<br />Based on his writings, he was in love with the early socialist-light<br />phase in American and English society, together with it's better morals.<br />He ignored the moral hazard in his beliefs and ranted against their natural consequences. He appears to have used church-world to try to suppress these negatives.<br />I don't believe that is the proper role of a church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79100557910180602402018-02-23T07:34:59.856-08:002018-02-23T07:34:59.856-08:00Just see the sliminess of Rod McNair, again on dis...Just see the sliminess of Rod McNair, again on display. In the latest LCG weekly comments, McNair wrote:<br /><br /><i>Vice President Mike Pence had a personal rule that he would never meet with a member of the opposite sex in private, alone.... Follow the Mike Pence rule!</i><br /><br />Gerald Weston follows this rule, but Rod Meredith did not. Rod McNair did not correct Rod Meredith for his standard, nor did Rod proclaim it as a universal standard other than in the context of certain ministerial counseling where two men can gang up on a woman and have a "witness" that nothing improper was done.<br /><br />Now, however, Rod McNair can curry favor with Weston by promoting this conservative standard as a standard for everybody. So, instead of insisting that his former boss Rod Meredith made wise and appropriate decisions and that Weston is going to an inflexible extreme like Pence, McNair is now promoting the Pence/Weston standard. <br /><br />Weston ought to realize that after he dies, McNair will quickly forget that Weston ever existed and will instead start currying favor with the new Presiding Evangelist. McNair has no inner core of beliefs of his own, and will do what it takes to win favor from the leader. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-59518538142184504482018-02-23T07:06:04.106-08:002018-02-23T07:06:04.106-08:00Ron Fraser was a good man who went through some di...<i>Ron Fraser was a good man who went through some difficult trials near the end of his life.</i><br /><br />If Fraser was such a good man, why did he shamelessly violate the commandment: "Thou shalt not steal"? Much of his professional work consisted of rewriting material that he purchased from the news service Stratfor, which as part of its purchase agreement included the agreement not to rewrite/repackage the material for distribution to others. <br /><br />Ron Fraser was willing to lie, cheat and steal for his god, Gerald Flurry. That is hardly a "good man."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-47109503065032109662018-02-23T03:44:56.939-08:002018-02-23T03:44:56.939-08:001.13 PM
You've lost me. If you were never a me...1.13 PM<br />You've lost me. If you were never a member of a Armstrongite group. Why are you on this blog. How can you relate to any of the topics?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-20061422230419275332018-02-23T02:00:08.398-08:002018-02-23T02:00:08.398-08:00Ron Fraser was a good man who went through some di...Ron Fraser was a good man who went through some difficult trials near the end of his life. He died several years ago but you write about his article as if he's alive and is able to respond to your criticism. Do you people have any shame?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3805376086137596292018-02-22T13:13:23.949-08:002018-02-22T13:13:23.949-08:00You are wrong I am not a member of any of these A...You are wrong I am not a member of any of these Armstrongite groups, never was. I am just telling you the truth, as a total outsider, yyou are the only ones who don't see it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34768414150871180082018-02-22T12:56:55.583-08:002018-02-22T12:56:55.583-08:00@ NEO:
Rod Meredith always struck me as someone n...@ NEO:<br /><br /><i>Rod Meredith always struck me as someone not easily classified. I heard a conservative minister in Big Sandy rake Rod over the coals before an audience. He said that Meredith had personally caused the healing power of God in the WCG to diminish by having his retina worked on by doctors. I think it had become detached when Rod was hit by a handball. Though Rod was considered an arch-conservative himself he was apparently not as conservative as some of his far right critics. </i><br /><br />The word you are looking for is "hypocrite." Rod put burdens on the members that he never put on himself. For example, when Rod McNair complained about Elizabeth Scarborough dressing "like a prostitute" for an event, Rod Meredith supported his boot-licking assistant. That same Rod Meredith, however, told several women at HQ that they should wear more makeup, fix their hair more attractively, and wear more attractive clothing. <br /><br />Meredith always had a lax attitude about tobacco smoking. He would talk very warmly about his father's pipe-smoking, and when his children indulged in an occasional cigar he thought it was no big deal. His biggest objection to David's cigarette-smoking seemed to be that people found out about it. <br /><br />Gerald Weston, by contrast, seems to practice what he preaches. He doesn't force members to be as conservative as he is, but he is very judgmental about those whose standards differ from his. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18884347325183996442018-02-22T10:12:12.144-08:002018-02-22T10:12:12.144-08:00Yes, that was for you TB. I forget that the mobile...Yes, that was for you TB. I forget that the mobile version I'm looking at shows direct replies while the desktop version doesnt.<br />We were at Richmond briefly, left in 82.RSKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427255805476848046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-49575760676629216592018-02-22T08:47:26.675-08:002018-02-22T08:47:26.675-08:00RSK said...
Did you attend WCG in Richmond? I...RSK said...<br /><br /> Did you attend WCG in Richmond? If so, roughly how long?<br /> February 21, 2018 at 9:42 PM <br /><br />RSK....not sure if your comment is directed to me but I will answer....<br /><br />Yes we (entire family) spent many years in the WCG in Richmond, from mid 80's up until we left in 93 due to a horrible minister named Ron Smith. He was so bad that after another totally meaningless and boring sermon we just decided to never go back. Sadly, I decided then to start getting RCM's tapes and my dad and I listened to them alone at home. This led to others finding out and wanting to come over...that's what led to one of the first "churches" of GCG forming on the east coast. I regret ever having anything to do with RCM...True Breadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04630174767307245168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60978089795059729082018-02-22T08:45:53.680-08:002018-02-22T08:45:53.680-08:00Dennis Diehl:
I think your point is trenchant. F...Dennis Diehl:<br /><br />I think your point is trenchant. For some reason the Millerite movement with its emphasis on cryptic and dubious prophetic presumptions has produced a fertile ground for religious entrepreneurship. It seems to be most prominent among the Armstrongists and their brothers the Branch Davidians. Herbert Armstrong and Vernon Howell were preeminent marketeers. <br /><br />This desire to market religion, the goose that laid the golden egg, seems to be a particular penchant of Armstrongists. Hence, all of the "start up" enterprises that I call "Armstrongist fragment churches." And Armstrongism is a nice product because it has a simplistic theology (all neatly captured in a few booklets and magazines), uses fear, racial pride and conspiracy theories as its motive force and targets the religiously naive. <br /><br />I recall the "Slender Now" and "Shaklee" movements in the WCG. Many ministers discovered another way to squeeze their congregations for more money for their personal gain, beyond the exhausting tithing system. And they wrapped it in the mantle of promoting health. More like the health of their wallets. I recall hearing that one minister claimed that everyone in his congregation had hypoglycemia and needed to be taking some product he was selling. Very convenient. <br /><br />Bottom line, this religious entrepreneurship is all about the money. Get yourself congregation, get yourself a tithe base and boogie. <br /><br />Addendum: Rod Meredith always struck me as someone not easily classified. I heard a conservative minister in Big Sandy rake Rod over the coals before an audience. He said that Meredith had personally caused the healing power of God in the WCG to diminish by having his retina worked on by doctors. I think it had become detached when Rod was hit by a handball. Though Rod was considered an arch-conservative himself he was apparently not as conservative as some of his far right critics. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487906691943831671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-56753324364548714972018-02-22T08:06:51.446-08:002018-02-22T08:06:51.446-08:004.47 AM
All the ACOGs worship unlimited government...4.47 AM<br />All the ACOGs worship unlimited government. They claim that it's God's government, but it's not. It's just crappy human government. The left wing socialists worship this same false god. It's like Satan wanting to kick God off His thrown and rule in his place. It's the same garbage. <br />God doesn't rule these churches, it's the ministers that do.<br />Just one example, I have never come across one church article on following God's lead. This is from the 1960s onwards. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-83063825532411278622018-02-22T04:47:56.960-08:002018-02-22T04:47:56.960-08:00Ariel
The Scarborough case was the straw that bro...Ariel<br /><br />The Scarborough case was the straw that broke the camels back for my departure form LCG and I didn't even know them. I was already fed up with the sermons on government and submission to the church leaders. I already saw how much LCG was like the Catholic church and how Rod Meredith was the LCG Pope. I was already dismayed by how LCG adds to and takes away from the Word of God when it serves them to do so. I was already disgusted by the routine heavy handedness of the ministers. When I learned of what they did to those people I knew, without a doubt, that I needed to go.<br /><br />Like you I quit Armstrongism all together. Unlike you I first went to another ACOG. I realized quickly that they are pretty much all the same so I escaped.<br /><br />Best decision of my life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-21771161120108526092018-02-21T21:42:59.299-08:002018-02-21T21:42:59.299-08:00Did you attend WCG in Richmond? If so, roughly how...Did you attend WCG in Richmond? If so, roughly how long?RSKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427255805476848046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-10958365035110766092018-02-21T21:39:41.122-08:002018-02-21T21:39:41.122-08:00Anon 5:13pm
The Scarborough case was the catalyst...Anon 5:13pm<br /><br />The Scarborough case was the catalyst for my departure from LCG after spending 17 years in that group. Although I am no longer a christian, doctrine was not an issue when I left. I considered attending another ACOG but soon realized it has the same corporate culture. That's when I finally decided to quit ACOGs. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707259351210252292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-26975656337155912842018-02-21T19:59:30.841-08:002018-02-21T19:59:30.841-08:00Let’s face one fact: Hypothetically, if only 10% ...Let’s face one fact: Hypothetically, if only 10% of what is reported here (specifically about LCG in this case) is true, LCG would still be a toxic environment, with corrupt and unloving ministers, and would be producing bad fruit, and shrinking in size and impact. <br />That’s where the rubber meets the road. <br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-2865244403744729072018-02-21T19:04:15.824-08:002018-02-21T19:04:15.824-08:00and too...it never once crossed my mind after 26 y...and too...it never once crossed my mind after 26 years of it, to start my own church. Once was quite enough in thinking I was supposed to be in the one someone else started. I never once thought of "going with" anybody either. Some few asked me in SC if I would consider taking the church and them out of Tkachville and go it alone. I said no. "I know you folk well and you'd have me for lunch within six months." <br /><br />I love what I do now, where I do and the wonderful folk I meet doing it. I feel like a bit of an underachiever in life having run out of time spending too much time in the wrong place but I suppose I could not be here if I had not been there is how I view it mostly.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-71401058042002656992018-02-21T18:07:53.368-08:002018-02-21T18:07:53.368-08:00LCG needs to re-brand itself- I think they should ...LCG needs to re-brand itself- I think they should rename it 'The Wretched Miserable Poor and Naked Church of God'(WMPN-COG).<br /><br />How I miss good ol' Spanky...<br /><br /><br /> Ronconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74381381457930109172018-02-21T18:03:33.352-08:002018-02-21T18:03:33.352-08:00What is the attraction of "starting my own ch...What is the attraction of "starting my own church" some feel when leave a fellowship. I saw people come and go all my life as kid growing up Presbyterian and no one would ever think of doing such a thing and never did. Of course, Presbyterian ministry is highly trained in theology over years of hard work in the field. Too many men , in the south at least, start their own church after leaving or getting booted from another because "I quit drankin', smokin' and cussin'" Not the greatest credentials. No COG member has the theological background to "start my own church." COG Ministry didn't either from what I now see. To start your own church, at least in my view, bespeaks an unbalanced personality in need of something personal from it. IMHO<br /><br />Unless you are spoken of in the prophets of course. Then I suppose you can skip the education and just go with the voices in your head or dreams.<br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-45894784422212034652018-02-21T17:13:33.370-08:002018-02-21T17:13:33.370-08:00"Scarborough" this, "Scarborough&qu..."Scarborough" this, "Scarborough" that. Blah, blah, blah. Hardly anyone in LCG, besides those directly involved in the case, has heard about the "Scarborough" thing. This whole contrived Scarborough "backlash" by the membership hat is such a lame excuse for LCG's "smoldering problems" or supposed "discontented" membership. Hardly anyone in the LCG membership knows about the case and therefore any "defections" or supposed brewing backlash by the membership toward the leadership is simply a fantasy story of the overactive minds and dirt diggers of most on this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com