tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post4891137010696994475..comments2024-03-28T16:17:27.623-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Obeying the Voices in Their Heads: Was Ezekiel Mentally Ill?NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-2003783905155219732017-07-07T10:56:49.404-07:002017-07-07T10:56:49.404-07:00I Knew John Cafourek In WCG Didn't Understand ... I Knew John Cafourek In WCG Didn't Understand The Importance Of Baptism said...<br />Mentally Ill People Often Cling To Religious Cults Such As The ACOG.<br /><br />July 6, 2017 at 4:54 AM<br /><br />Anon 4:54, I have observed that Cafourek is the classic case, as many of the cog so-called ministers are, of clinging to a religious cult. They cannot escape the brainwashing they received at AC, nor move into any enlightened thinking, even when shown to be right. That constitutes insanity. From my numerous interactions with Cafourek, I also have found him to be a very two-faced deceptive person. His lies have been well-documented by several that have known him. Perhaps, however, he was just listening to conflicting voices in his head. Life is so much better without having to deal with the insanity of those hirelings in the cogs.Cognac Willienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-5231694036836017792017-07-07T09:02:31.209-07:002017-07-07T09:02:31.209-07:00And too..I am not a biblical wolf in sheep's c...And too..I am not a biblical wolf in sheep's clothing. Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266112796114131485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30695364071806478342017-07-07T09:01:38.478-07:002017-07-07T09:01:38.478-07:00It can be because two different authors are giving...It can be because two different authors are giving differing views on what faith is and proving. Both are mutually exclusive conceptsDennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266112796114131485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18103843276376957432017-07-07T06:03:16.879-07:002017-07-07T06:03:16.879-07:00Sorry, but your post is too short to have been wri...Sorry, but your post is too short to have been written by Dennis. Have a ham sandwich and try again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-23830467569419817832017-07-07T01:19:59.099-07:002017-07-07T01:19:59.099-07:00Hebrew 11 does not say that faith is believing wit...Hebrew 11 does not say that faith is believing without evidence.<br />How can this be since we are instructed to 'prove all things' and 'beware of wolves in sheeps clothing' (which includes incorrect 'wolves' beliefs) and similar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17219683604298111222017-07-07T00:58:39.373-07:002017-07-07T00:58:39.373-07:00Hi all. This is the Dennis Diehl from the future. ...Hi all. This is the Dennis Diehl from the future. I borrowed Michael J Fox's back to the future car, and have returned to 2017 to give a warning to Banned readers. <br />It's all true. The tribulation has just ended, Europe has been wiped out by a Euro-Asian army of 200 million, and Christ has returned.<br />So please, please ignore all my apostate, crown stealing articles from 2017.<br />And be sure to be diligent in your prayer and bible study.<br />I better go and return Michaels car. Bye all. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79429082602413055382017-07-06T18:21:23.271-07:002017-07-06T18:21:23.271-07:00I've long realised that a type of insanity too...I've long realised that a type of insanity took me over at age 18. Before that, I had been quite the sceptic, but the hypnotic voice and printed messages from Pasadena overwhelmed for decades the basic analytical mind I was born with. I was able to shake it. Many others can't quite get there.<br /><br />Allen C. Dexter Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-16150716584045467222017-07-06T16:24:19.515-07:002017-07-06T16:24:19.515-07:00While controversial as a theory, the research into...While controversial as a theory, the research into the history of human contact with the gods , old Testament prophets and the fading of that contact such as we find in the psalms in the form of "why art thou so far from me" etc, but Julian Jaynes and his work, The Origins of Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind, is very fascinating and full of information on how the brain works to produce voices in the head and perhaps why.<br /><br />"Bicameralism (the philosophy of "two-chamberedness") is a hypothesis in psychology that argues that the human mind once assumed a state in which cognitive functions were divided between one part of the brain which appears to be "speaking", and a second part which listens and obeys—a bicameral mind. The term was coined by Julian Jaynes, who presented the idea in his 1976 book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, wherein he made the case that a bicameral mentality was the normal and ubiquitous state of the human mind as recently as 3000 years ago."<br /><br /> Jaynes theorized that a shift from bicameralism marked the beginning of introspection and consciousness as we know it today. According to Jaynes, this bicameral mentality began malfunctioning or "breaking down" during the 2nd millennium BCE. He speculates that primitive ancient societies tended to collapse periodically (e.g., Egypt's Intermediate Periods, as well as the periodically vanishing cities of the Mayas) as changes in the environment strained the socio-cultural equilibria sustained by this bicameral mindset. The Bronze age collapse of the 2nd millennium BCE led to mass migrations and created a rash of unexpected situations and stresses which required ancient minds to become more flexible and creative. Self-awareness, or consciousness, was the culturally evolved solution to this problem. This necessity of communicating commonly observed phenomena among individuals who shared no common language or cultural upbringing encouraged those communities to become self-aware to survive in a new environment. Thus consciousness, like bicamerality, emerged as a neurological adaptation to social complexity in a changing world.[citation needed]<br /><br />Jaynes further argues that divination, prayer, and oracles arose during this breakdown period, in an attempt to summon instructions from the "gods" whose voices could no longer be heard.[3] The consultation of special bicamerally operative individuals, or of divination by casting lots and so forth, was a response to this loss, a transitional era depicted, for example, in the book of 1 Samuel. It was also evidenced in children who could communicate with the gods, but as their neurology was set by language and society they gradually lost that ability. Those who continued prophesying, being bicameral according to Jaynes, could be killed.[6][7] Leftovers of the bicameral mind today, according to Jaynes, include religion, hypnosis, possession, schizophrenia, and the general sense of need for external authority in decision-making."<br /><br />Wiki/Bicameralism<br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-10467734161553748972017-07-06T13:53:19.087-07:002017-07-06T13:53:19.087-07:00“The president of the United States has claimed, o...“The president of the United States has claimed, on more than one occasion, to be in dialogue with God. If he said that he was talking to God through his hairdryer, this would precipitate a national emergency. I fail to see how the addition of a hairdryer makes the claim more ridiculous or offensive.” <br />― Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian NationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-14520215867396348322017-07-06T09:02:04.044-07:002017-07-06T09:02:04.044-07:00So is there anything out there or not? I admit I d...So is there anything out there or not? I admit I don't know. I have avoided mental illness my whole life and now have to avoid senile dementia. I admit to occasionally hearing voices and seeing things which I know weren't there, but according to Dr.Sacks this can be quite normal especially in childhood. We do know the mind fills in blanks, this is part of the science of vision. We recognise something familiar way quicker than something strange because our brain fills in the details. The voice I heard was just a name called (not my own) and it did scare me, but I am not prepared to think I was insane, nor at that time using drugs.<br /><br />So I wonder when someone is mentally ill and hears things, or is perhaps sane and hears things, are there things out there we are usually unaware of, but somehow we break the barrier normally present between us and them? <br /><br />I know people attempt to explain these things away but they don't know for sure.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-11178266723548210332017-07-06T08:42:00.645-07:002017-07-06T08:42:00.645-07:00Nice quote RSKNice quote RSKDennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266112796114131485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25749525297180561922017-07-06T08:22:12.917-07:002017-07-06T08:22:12.917-07:00The idea in Heb 11 is not that faith is based on n...The idea in Heb 11 is not that faith is based on no evidence at all. Just no evidence, other than God's character, that God will fulfill a <i>particular</i> promise. <br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15482557414178122742017-07-06T07:57:56.449-07:002017-07-06T07:57:56.449-07:00"The age of miracles" Haven't heard..."The age of miracles" Haven't heard that one in ...well...ages😱Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266112796114131485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-16476884598504176222017-07-06T06:31:27.273-07:002017-07-06T06:31:27.273-07:00rather...""Now faith is what we hope is ...rather...""Now faith is what we hope is true with absolutely no evidence that it is true" rendered in Hebrews 11 as "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79419137400208120512017-07-06T06:29:21.864-07:002017-07-06T06:29:21.864-07:00"I feel sorry for those whose hope is in the ..."I feel sorry for those whose hope is in the bible being false..."<br /><br />Don't. It is not a matter of "hope in the Bible being false." It is a matter of simply being willing to address the issue of “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”― Carl Sagan<br /><br />Nothing in a religious/God realm can be proven. That is why the Book admits that "he that comes to God MUST believe that he is and the rewarder of those who diligently seek him," or "Without faith it is impossible to please God," "the just shall live by faith" (The original OT quote is "The Just shall live by his faith"), and "Now faith is what we hope is true without absolutely evidence that it is true" rendered in Hebrews 11 as "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."<br /><br />That's fine if one is not interested in personal growth or understanding the reality of what actually is so but that approach does not set well for many and progress is not made being stuck in the views of those now long gone who wrote for their own times, needs and circumstances.<br /><br />By the time one says "you'll think differently when you are IN the Lake of Fire" they have stopped growing both in the grace they claim to understand the knowledge they think they are open minded enough to receive along the way. <br /><br />I met few ministers along my own path who had much intellectual curiosities or theological questions outside of what they were taught. Like the Bob Jones student told me when I asked them about where Neanderthals or early humans fit in the Bob Jones world, "I don't know...I just believe what they tell me."<br /><br />It's ok to question what they, from "Moses" to "Jesus", tells us just as much as it is to question what Dave Pack or a Bob Thiel think we ought to accept as the really true truth on everything.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-67054557973519753012017-07-06T06:19:35.087-07:002017-07-06T06:19:35.087-07:00Makes me think of the Tell Tale Heart.
"True...Makes me think of the Tell Tale Heart.<br /><br />"True! - nervous - very, very dreadfully nervous I had been and am; but why will you say that I am mad? The disease had sharpened my senses - not destroyed - not dulled them. Above all was the sense of hearing acute. I heard all things in the heaven and in the earth. I heard many things in hell. How, then, am I mad? Hearken! and observe how healthily - how calmly I can tell you the whole story."RSKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-469710369118616392017-07-06T05:50:06.594-07:002017-07-06T05:50:06.594-07:00GTA once ridiculed Muhammad while incorrectly clai...GTA once ridiculed Muhammad while incorrectly claiming that he wrote the Quran while rolled up in a carpet. Obviously GTA, once touted as the authority on Bible prophecy, wasn't concerned about the various contortions the Biblical prophets had to endure.Hosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285219921252563944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-89893469904861463362017-07-06T04:54:50.736-07:002017-07-06T04:54:50.736-07:00Mentally Ill People Often Cling To Religious Cults...Mentally Ill People Often Cling To Religious Cults Such As The ACOG. I Knew John Cafourek In WCG Didn't Understand The Importance Of Baptismnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-92175227065747007872017-07-06T02:37:16.782-07:002017-07-06T02:37:16.782-07:00I feel sorry for those whose hope is in the bible ...I feel sorry for those whose hope is in the bible being true...Helen Wheelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-58841184418752455662017-07-06T00:36:24.066-07:002017-07-06T00:36:24.066-07:00These people are caught up in what I call the &quo...These people are caught up in what I call the "Tom Sawyer" syndrome. Tom, Huck, and Joe Harper pretending to be pirates on a raft going down the Mississippi River. Except, the Armstrongites are traveling inCOGnito as Bible characters instead of the pirates. So they call themselves apostles, and prophets and such, and pretend that they hear voices because the prophets who lived during the age of miracles did, and then they get people to follow them and do their work just like Tom Sawyer got all the kids to do his job and paint a fence. They're playing a game of "Bible" without any real context, using their imagination about an era that passed a long time ago. All they know is what their leaders have told them, because you're not allowed to read widely and to get second opinions if you're in an ACOG. They don't even bat an eye when their pretend prophecies fail. They just make up new ones, or what we might call in classical music "Flurry's variations on a theme by Armstrong". LOL.<br /><br /><br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-35582210999103183902017-07-05T22:52:05.929-07:002017-07-05T22:52:05.929-07:00"What if?????"
I feel sorry for those ..."What if?????"<br /><br /><br />I feel sorry for those whose hope is in the bible being false...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-78944141450450376372017-07-05T21:43:13.216-07:002017-07-05T21:43:13.216-07:00It is a common "diagnosis" if one just g...It is a common "diagnosis" if one just goes by the written descriptions of his behaviors. Amos is also well understood to be in a similar catagory and Jeremiah has always been seen as a very clinically depressed prophet in his writings. Of course Jesus himself is subject to questioning when one simply realizes that he said things such as "NO Man can come unto the father but my ME" "I am the way, the truth and the life"...and so on. Pretty bold stuff and it gets a pass because it is Jesus. The Mary of Mark, for some reason, felt he was insane and went to get him for his own protection. That scripture was left in the text only in Mark and removed for obvious reasons by other Gospel writers. <br /><br />Time would fail us to discuss the behavior of Abraham obeying the voices in his head concerning killing Isaac. We give that story a pass as well, but it is horrific and how many mentally ill types today have said, "God told me to kill" The Son of Sam comes to mind as well as several moms with post partum depression who heard voices to kill their children. <br /><br />Any physician would tell you Mark 9: 17 "A man in the crowd answered, “Teacher, I brought you my son, who is possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech. 18 Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive out the spirit, but they could not.”<br /><br />19“You unbelieving generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy to me.”<br /><br />20So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.<br /><br />21Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”<br /><br />“From childhood,” he answered. 22“It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”<br /><br />23“ ‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.”<br /><br />with a bit of embellishment, is simply a boy who has had epileptic seizures since childhood. These are the classic symptoms. They last about 20 minutes and with good timing, anyone can cast out the demons in an ignorant society.<br /><br />Paul's Damascus Road story with seeing a bright light, hearing voices especially with religious content is CLASSIC temporal lobe epilepsy. Luke tells the story of Paul in Acts. Paul himself does not say he ever has such an experience and says he was called from the womb in Galatians. <br /><br />The child Samuel heard "Samuel" in the night while sleeping in the temple close to the Ark evidently. Very emotional place. The voice convinced him he was called of God. Schizophrenia perhaps or most likely religiously overwhelmed and ripe for hearing voices as a child in the temple where who knows what Eli the Priest had told him about God.<br /><br />Fascinating topic. My point is that the PCG author was asking for this when he said that hearing voices was from Satan. The Bible is full of "men of God" hearing voices to launch their careers. Livingston walked into his own trap.<br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12271649752509108722017-07-05T19:10:43.358-07:002017-07-05T19:10:43.358-07:00before any butthurt bibliolators freak out, the su...before any butthurt bibliolators freak out, the suggestion of Ezekiel being a madman is much older tban the 2010 sourcing. I first learned of it around 1989, but it seems to me I found it later in a book from the 1940s.<br />RSKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-8183180828927197592017-07-05T18:12:25.273-07:002017-07-05T18:12:25.273-07:00Was Ezekiel mentally ill? I would say yes and poss...Was Ezekiel mentally ill? I would say yes and possibly the other prophets were as well. Was HWA mentally ill? My answer is a resounding yes! Let's face the facts, the vast majority of people who has ever been associated with the ACOG has suffered through some form of mental illness. Lot of it brought on by the made-up teachings of a false apostle/false prophet Hebert Armstrong. Anonymous 1968noreply@blogger.com