tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post666964622902078446..comments2024-03-28T22:34:16.707-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Living Church of God member writes about Sardis/Philadelphia eras and why the church proclaims the Bible yet treats members like dirtNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-90748815672722818262017-03-31T20:23:48.106-07:002017-03-31T20:23:48.106-07:00@5:29
I hope that I can offer some encouragement ...@5:29<br /><br />I hope that I can offer some encouragement to you because I have been in your same situation: To stand up against unfairness and be kicked out, or to keep silent and watch others suffer wrongly.<br /><br />I pushed things as far as I could without getting kicked out myself. I had to realize that I was not on a level playing field with these individuals. You can be totally in the right, with all the Scriptures on your side, and be kicked out without a second thought. To push things farther, and be kicked out, would have accomplished nothing. <br /><br />You are 100% correct that growing in grace and knowledge of God is up to each person individually, no church or minister can do it for you. <br /><br />Hang in there my friend, you are not alone in your struggles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34062964447325815092017-03-31T08:16:46.098-07:002017-03-31T08:16:46.098-07:00Let me suggest exploring the metaphor of the ember...Let me suggest exploring the metaphor of the ember going out. Look at it in two opposite ways.<br /><br />1. Before going to bed on a cold night, I put big solid chunks of oak or locust wood in my stove so there will be embers left to get the fire going again the next morning to keep the house warm.<br /><br />Is your ecclesiastical fire safely contained and properly vented so it warms the family without releasing poisonous gases or burning down the structure it is supposed to make warm? If so, how can you best keep the embers glowing through the dark night?<br /><br /><br />2. After firefighters doused the flames of a brush fire on our property, they hurried around to the smoky spots and extinguished every last ember so it could not ignite a new conflagration.<br /><br />Has your ecclesiastical fire spread out of control and damaged you and your relationships? Can you afford to let the embers die out, or do you need to extinguish them now, for your family's sake?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79381059049612822562017-03-31T05:24:33.468-07:002017-03-31T05:24:33.468-07:005:29 here
@ 9:13
I am not offended in the least ...5:29 here<br /><br />@ 9:13<br /><br />I am not offended in the least by your questions. I struggle with those questions nearly daily.<br /><br />I have guilt that I haven't stood up for those that I know were treated unfairly by LCG ministry. It's something that eats me alive. But I know that standing up for them would result in problems for my family for no LCG minister is going to tolerate a member who "stands up". You are right, I have been a horrible friend. I love these people but my actions aren't reflective of that love because of my cowardice. To answer you question, I feel horrible about being told to shun people who I know are good.<br /><br />It sounds so shallow even as I type it but my kids are looking forward to summer camp and we've already registered for the Feast. I'm not in a place where I am brave enough to mess that up. <br /><br />The entire environment isn't "rotting and infected". Many of the brethren and ministers are good people. It's the core that is rotten (Rod McNair borders on evil) with a few offshoots to local congregations (you can always tell based on where people are disfellowshipped and/or leave in greater numbers than they grow).<br /><br />Regarding your question about my kids growing up and turning their backs on me if I leave LCG and they stay... I'm not worried about that because I doubt LCG will be in existence for that much longer. There is a growing discontentment that is palpable. It's unsustainable. I'd rather just stay and keep my good name and when everything falls apart making a move will be less notable.<br /><br />And lastly, to answer your question, "if LCG is not the COG then what is?" - I am convinced that the COG is a body of people. It has nothing to do with an organization with a corporate name. There are people in the various splinter groups that are truly trying to live God's way. There are many people who don't attend with any group who are truly trying to live God's way. <br /><br />I agree with you that it would be easy for "the ember to go out" completely and that is one of the reason I continue attending with other like-minded people. I just no longer look to my ministers for guidance, character or even informative sermons (they are so uninspired). We are each PERSONALLY responsible for growing in grace and knowledge. No church can do it for us.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18242280325124074572017-03-30T21:13:14.719-07:002017-03-30T21:13:14.719-07:00Anon 5:29 AM "We have all seen how LCG membe...Anon 5:29 AM "We have all seen how LCG members have no loyalty or love lost for people who are no longer in LCG."<br /><br />"You shall know them by their fruits". If they (the ministry /members) are not showing the fruits of the Holy Spirit why stay in an ungodly environment? If you continue to stay, there is a very strong possibility that you will be corrupted/poisoned by the NOT GODLY fruits. You say you are staying for your children's benefit. If the fruits, attitudes and unrighteous character of this group /ministers are affecting (or is that effecting?) you, it is also affecting your children. Toxic relationships are damaging. <br /><br />You say, "putting up with repeated sermons on government and the abusive treatment of my friends by LCG ministry feels like long-suffering!" Ok, I can see that you would be 'putting up with' the sermons on government but I have to ask, why are you *putting up with* the abusive treatment of another human being that you call a friend, by those who 'lord it over you/them'? Why would you stand by and not speak up? How do you call that long-suffering? Would you call someone a friend who 'put up with' someone else abusing YOU? Would you allow your children to be abused and not stand up and say something to the abuser? Would you not report the abuse? Will you allow your children to continue in this environment and let THEM be abused by the ministry? Why stay in a rotting and infected environment that you describe similarly to gangrene? The church is *supposed to be* a body. If the head is sick, the whole body is sick (willingly or not). I hope you can understand that my questions come from a place of care for you and your children and those you call friends. <br /><br />More questions. If you wait to escape or stand up for what is right until your children are grown, are you not putting them in a position of having to turn their backs on you, if THEY remain in LCG? How do you currently feel about being expected (commanded) to shun those who have left or been put out? Do you feel that is a reasonable position to put your children in? You say, in your 4:59 comment that "your fire was slowly extinguished." Once that stage occurs, it is often not long before the embers go out and then there is nothing left. If LCG is not the COG then what is it? <br /> anonymous63noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-19335626497575057902017-03-30T16:59:42.805-07:002017-03-30T16:59:42.805-07:005:29 here
I'd like to reply to 7:16 who ignor...5:29 here<br /><br />I'd like to reply to 7:16 who ignorantly stated that they suspect I was never really onboard with LCG in the 1st place.<br /><br />You could not be further from the truth. I love the Word of God. I love God's Feast, holy days and Sabbaths. I was never in WCG (before my time). My first interaction with the COG, "first love" if you will, was in LCG. An LCG minister baptized me. I was on cloud 9. I was "all in". Hook, line an sinker.<br /><br />I understand that the church is lead by humans and humans are not perfect. I get that. But what I have witnessed first hand and repeatedly is nothing short of malice from LCG ministry. Ministers in my church have WORSE character than the "worldly" people I interact with at my job every day.<br /><br />Add to that their total lack of forgiveness, inability to ever admit wrong-doing, horrible egos, arrogant senses of entitlement, false accusations against my brethren, lies and refusal to fix what's wrong even when its the most logical thing to do and 1000 other things and my fire was slowly extinguished.<br /><br />LCG might talk the talk but their corruption, greed and abuse of the members makes it clear that LCG is NOT the COG.<br /><br />I agree with the article writer when they say that doing the "work" isn't about telecasts and TW special presentation. Doing the work is about exemplifying Christian character in our daily lives.<br /><br />So anon 7:16, I guess at the end of the day, you're right. I'm not onboard with the behavior that has become normal at LCG. No one should be. Doctrinally though, I still believe what I have proven to be biblically sound despite my saddening experience in LCG.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-54509782767497950602017-03-30T09:49:14.227-07:002017-03-30T09:49:14.227-07:00Although I don't hold to the theological belie...Although I don't hold to the theological beliefs (Armstrongism) as the LCG member who wrote these two articles, I absolutely agree with and confirm his/her assessment of how the Living Church of God leadership exercises harshness that is often in far disproportion to the alleged infraction and how they practice blatant partiality, which can simply be summed up as Spiritual Manipulation and Abuse.<br /><br />I was a member of LCG for ten years and my situation with LCG is almost an exact representation of what the writer points out in paragraph 7 of the first article.<br /><br />I agree with Anon @ March 30, 2017 at 5:29 AM who points out (and I'm paraphrasing here) that when you have relationships in LCG (family and friends), it's a difficult thing to just walk out the door. Ultimately though you have to make a decision, and it has to be the right decision for you. <br /><br />I was compelled by the Holy Spirit and the Gospel of God to ultimately cut ties with LCG because He (the Holy Spirit) revealed to me the truth (John 16: 5-15) that the Armstrong theology (Armstrongism) which LCG teaches is the preaching of another Jesus, a different spirit, and a different gospel (2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6-9) and it is full of doctrines of demons; and also because my relationship with Jesus Christ and adherence to His sound doctrine is by far more important (Matthew 10:34-39). <br /><br />I firmly believe that there isn't any one professing Christian church denomination or group that has all of the so-called "truth" when it comes to their doctrines and practices, and that would definately include LCG and all of the Armstrong splinter groups. If "the TRUTH" really matters to any member of LCG, then get out because the truth is that LCG surely doesn't have it. I encourage you to place your trust in God and ask Him to help you with your relationships and to find a church group that holds to the essential doctrines of the Christian faith as evidenced and taught in the New Testament of the Holy Bible. In the essentials - Unity. In the non-essentials - Liberty. In all things - Charity. <br /><br />As for Anon @ March 30 at 7:16 AM - How dare you have the nerve to chastise 5:29 AM! You just said that LCG has "fallible human beings from top to bottom"! You HYPOCRITE! <br /><br />Your comments just proves that you are not a good person and that LCG is not a good organization! The leaders are unrighteous men who through their unrighteousness suppress the truth (Romans 1:18). If this is your way of practicing how to "rule in the coming kingdom" when you supposedly will become "God as God is God" (which you won't - see Isaiah 43:10), then you're doing a poor job you worm!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48671751706582005252017-03-30T07:16:43.328-07:002017-03-30T07:16:43.328-07:00Anonymous 5:29, with comments like yours, I suspec...Anonymous 5:29, with comments like yours, I suspect that you may have never been fully onboard with LCG from the day you walked into one of it's Sabbath services. And that's unfortunate. What a waste of your time to stay around an organization that doesn't live up to your standards. It's a good organization with a honorable mission focus that is doing what it feel compelled to do with fallible human beings from top to bottom. And sticking around LCG just for the kids sake? Where is your leadership in your family? If you leave after they are adults, then your kids will most likely not respect your decision. Again, where is your leadership as a father or mother in doing it that way? Sad. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25579702616532978642017-03-30T05:29:03.465-07:002017-03-30T05:29:03.465-07:00I enjoyed reading this.
I too am an LCG member an...I enjoyed reading this.<br /><br />I too am an LCG member and I agree whole-heartedly with this writer.<br /><br />It was well thought out. As a member for nearly 2 decades, I can not refute any of its contents.<br /><br />To anon 2:23 who flippantly says "there's the door", when all of your friends are in LCG and you have children and all of their friends are in LCG, it's a difficult thing to just walk out the door.<br /><br />We have all seen how LCG members have no loyalty or love lost for people who are no longer in LCG. We have all seen how heartbreaking it is for people who leave and are basically shunned by the people they have loved for years.<br /><br />I can't do that to my kids. Maybe once they grow and leave for college I will make a move but I can't bear the thought of them losing all their friends and being treated like outcasts just because mommy and daddy can't take it anymore.<br /><br />I am trying to practice that "long-suffering" that the Bible talks about. And trust me, putting up with repeated sermons on government and the abusive treatment of my friends by LCG ministry feels like long-suffering!<br /><br />When LCG started, it wasn't like this. Unfortunately, just like gangrene, the rot has spread year by year and, at present, the infection is about to take down its host.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-76967482940511603572017-03-29T23:32:46.743-07:002017-03-29T23:32:46.743-07:00"In sermon #964, Gerald Weston mentions that ..."<i>In sermon #964, Gerald Weston mentions that the originally, Mr. Meredith had wanted to incorporate under the name "Church of the Living God", however that was unavailable for some reason, and so the name was chosen as "Living Church of God"</i>"<br /><br />I can well recall hearing Meredith stating the same thing in a sermon of his. It was my understanding that another church owned that name hence why it was given its current name.Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-28298907449928449582017-03-29T22:29:55.946-07:002017-03-29T22:29:55.946-07:00Church 'eras" another totally unbiblical ...Church 'eras" another totally unbiblical made up doctrine compliments of the Elijah.<br />Remember back in the day when they put people who thought they were Napoleon or Christ in loony bins?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-45233574177192308312017-03-29T22:04:05.442-07:002017-03-29T22:04:05.442-07:00Herbert W. Armstrong taught the following:
Sardis...<br />Herbert W. Armstrong taught the following:<br /><br /><b>Sardis era:</b> The Church of God, Seventh Day.<br /><br /><b>Philadelphia era:</b> The Worldwide Church of God under HWA.<br /><br /><b>Laodicea era:</b> The current ungodly MESS.<br /><br />Remember this and think about it often.<br /><br /><br />If you reject this understanding and try to listen to new theories, it just seems to open the door to a lot of demonic influence. There will be NO END to the many, different, crazy theories that many, different, crazy people will come up with. Significantly, none of their many, different, crazy theories that they waste their lives trying to convince other people about will ever prove to be worth anything.<br /><br />The so-called “doctrinal upgrades” that the LCG leaders come up with are bad enough. To listen to all the many, different, crazy theories of all the many, different, crazy, lower-level, LCG nuts will not help at all. It is no wonder that they get kicked out and that nobody wants to waste any time listening to them and their many, different, crazy theories. RCM is full of enough rebellion and hostility toward what HWA had taught. The many, different, crazy, little, LCG nuts do not have the good sense to keep quiet about their own rebellion and hostility.<br /><br />Hearing about the very real and serious faults of the splinter groups can be very interesting. Hearing the many, different, crazy theories of the many, different, crazy, little nuts can become a real drag. It is not as if the Holy Spirit is leading them all into the same truth. Instead, numerous evil spirits each lead a different, crazy, little nut off in a different direction. Which one of these many, different, crazy, little nuts are you going to follow? What makes you think that the one, particular, crazy, little nut that you happen to listen to could ever possibly be right? Do you feel lucky, rebel?<br /><br />The explosion of the WCG really did send nuts flying everywhere. This explosion did <i>not</i> lead to greater order and understanding. Like the one true explosion that it was, it continues to lead to more and more chaos and confusion.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-2548415589890897822017-03-29T19:37:17.367-07:002017-03-29T19:37:17.367-07:00I had a work boss work who kept verbally abusing h...I had a work boss work who kept verbally abusing his workers in order to squeeze everything he could from them. He expected management to ignore the abuse, and reward him with promotions. It never happened. Upper management had some morals, so they refused. My point is, this boss, like to days ministers, couldn't comprehend how he was perceived by others. He was secretly despised by responsible people, but didn't know it. Like todays ministers, he was disconnected from reality.<br />Rods 'send in your excess wealth' for a final push for the work, is his attempt to top up his reward in heaven. What a joke that is. He hasn't even qualified for the kingdom.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-16997047762631626942017-03-29T16:31:04.562-07:002017-03-29T16:31:04.562-07:00But these people will continue to support a lie wh...But these people will continue to support a lie which in contrast they lie to themselves every time they send off a check to "Headquarters". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30982247160574931542017-03-29T15:18:18.633-07:002017-03-29T15:18:18.633-07:00Of course, Dennis, since Revelation is just made u...Of course, Dennis, since Revelation is just made up, maybe the churches never existed and there was no message for them.<br /><br />And today, it's totally meaningless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-26773197075352882372017-03-29T15:10:19.975-07:002017-03-29T15:10:19.975-07:00I have stated the same for years. Living COG has a...I have stated the same for years. Living COG has alive connected right to it. I believe that there are two ways that the seven churches need to be viewed. One as they identify on the mail route and the other. expanding through time.Sweetblood777https://www.blogger.com/profile/11000268749016977800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-68312519935742579202017-03-29T14:23:24.789-07:002017-03-29T14:23:24.789-07:00Hey LCG "member" - there's the door....Hey LCG "member" - there's the door. No one is forcing you to stick around. Go find a church that fits your perfect idea of church. You ain't gonna find one - anywhere. Sorry. I wish there was one, but there isn't one. Not yet. Not until the Kingdom is on the Earth. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17283741914132243112017-03-29T12:18:10.835-07:002017-03-29T12:18:10.835-07:00The Seven Snippets to the churches in Asia minor w...The Seven Snippets to the churches in Asia minor were to them. Making them into seven arguable and squabbling church eras is making the text mean what it never meant or could mean.Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266112796114131485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-44957226892013052092017-03-29T11:07:19.536-07:002017-03-29T11:07:19.536-07:00Sorry, but even at its largest, Church of God Seve...Sorry, but even at its largest, Church of God Seventh Day was still larger than the Worldwide Church of God, in more places. What passes for influence? The Bible Advocate or The Plain Truth.<br /><br />Oh, I'm sorry, neither the Worldwide Church of God nor the Plain Truth (as envisioned by Herbert Armstrong) -- not even The Good News -- exists any longer, but the CoG7 and the Bible Advocate are still around after 150 years.<br /><br />The little sects of the Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia can make all the noise they want and pretend all they want, but they are neither great in any way (particularly as Christianity) nor are they at all influential in any significant way.<br /><br />Those are the facts.<br /><br />It's clear that they can readily ignored as usual so that the usual lies and excuses can continue to be embraced without one whit of consideration that the belief system of the Armstrongists is totally off -- completely wrong -- and unfocused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com