tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post6818848328963307947..comments2024-03-28T12:00:36.886-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dear Bob,, NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34744624915670476972017-01-27T22:43:41.385-08:002017-01-27T22:43:41.385-08:00Retired Prof,
Body language and tone of voice woul...Retired Prof,<br />Body language and tone of voice would mean everything with expressions like 'dreary interval between life and death,' and similar. Obviously this cannot be done with the written word. Thanks for sharing your experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-6059894155677559292017-01-27T15:29:00.365-08:002017-01-27T15:29:00.365-08:00Anon 11:40, thanks for clarifying your motive. My ...Anon 11:40, thanks for clarifying your motive. My family is thickly infested with Missionary Baptist deacons, ministers, and missionaries, who feel the Great Commission as a weighty obligation and are gratified to seize opportunities to fulfill it. When they do, they sound a lot like you. But of course similar behavior can spring from diverse impulses, and I should not have reflexively extrapolated their motivation to you. Sorry.<br /><br />By the way, you might be interested to know that my pessimistic "dreary interval between birth and death"* stance can make people feel better instead of worse. Back in the day, when people around the university would ask me how I was, I would answer "Wretched."<br /><br />They would make a sympathetic face and start to express condolences. I would shrug, smile, and in a cheerful voice say "Oh, it's nothing to worry about. Just the human condition." It always got at least a smile, and sometimes a good hearty laugh. <br /><br /><br />I owe this nifty phrase to a former colleague of mine, who originally used it to sum up my take on things.Retired Profnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17699651801496798562017-01-27T11:40:25.334-08:002017-01-27T11:40:25.334-08:00Retired Prof,
Negative, it's not my moral duty...Retired Prof,<br />Negative, it's not my moral duty to disagree with/correct others. Rather it's an option I have. For instance, l try not to correct evil people, since the feedback would be used by them to become more effective in the criminal ways. <br />Everyone feels gratified when they believe they have done the right thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-85160046076829958502017-01-27T09:03:50.965-08:002017-01-27T09:03:50.965-08:00Anonymous 9:49 and/or 9:59, of course life is prec...Anonymous 9:49 and/or 9:59, of course life is precious. The most precious gems, the ones we lust after most, are the rarest ones. The gleam of a human life is not just a rare gem--it is completely unique. The ultimate treasure to the person who possesses it. <br /><br />We all have different ways of gleaming, which is to say, lightening the gloom. You two can't shine unless you believe the game is deadly serious. Keep on believing that. You may be right, and I may be wrong that believing so is just another move in the silly game. But here's the kicker: notice how gratified you felt to make those comments. You were doing what you saw as your solemn duty, and you gleamed. Retired Profnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-20239551246805389602017-01-26T21:59:29.725-08:002017-01-26T21:59:29.725-08:00Retired Prof
It seems that you have not only retir...Retired Prof<br />It seems that you have not only retired from your job, but have retired from life as well. You should treasure every day and every hour that God has given you. Your "pass the time and lighten the gloom" is passive suicide. It's demonic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-23035432354011418362017-01-26T21:49:41.015-08:002017-01-26T21:49:41.015-08:00Retired Prof, I beg to differ. life is very precio...Retired Prof, I beg to differ. life is very precious and should be treated as such. We are not here to pass the time, but rather to build the mind of God. Playing silly games is anti life, and hence worthy of condemnation.<br />Life is precious, not cheap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-64536239767784706252017-01-26T21:22:47.968-08:002017-01-26T21:22:47.968-08:00Anonymous January 25, 2017 at 2:55 PM says Michael... Anonymous January 25, 2017 at 2:55 PM says Michael is "just playing silly games."<br /><br />Relax, Anon. We all are. Silly games make an effective way to pass the time and lighten the gloom during this dreary interval between birth and death. <br /><br />Best part is, that interval won't last all that long. As Samuel Beckett wrote in *Waiting for Godot,* “They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.”<br /><br /><br />Retired Profnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-78685513287036693532017-01-25T14:55:59.790-08:002017-01-25T14:55:59.790-08:00Michael
If your mind is already made up, why come ...Michael<br />If your mind is already made up, why come here with your questions? You are just playing silly games. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-14738317399229718922017-01-25T11:03:26.440-08:002017-01-25T11:03:26.440-08:00Anon wrote:
"This dog-eat-dog plan B was forc...Anon wrote:<br />"This dog-eat-dog plan B was forced on God."<br /><br />Poor omnipotent God, always forced to such extreme evil plans...Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-49992328785014584162017-01-25T08:44:06.716-08:002017-01-25T08:44:06.716-08:00Michael
The bible condemns from cover to cover dog...Michael<br />The bible condemns from cover to cover dog-eat-dog behaviour amongst humans, which it calls sin. God has repeatedly destroyed cities and nations for such misbehaviour. Or would you that God removes free moral agency from humans? If you are referring to natural disasters, God does protect individuals and nations if they act responsibly (build responsibly and take precautions) and obey His laws. <br />I remind you that God initially started off with your idea society via the angelic program. But look what happened. This dog-eat-dog plan B was forced on God.<br />Christ couldn't carry His own cross because His back muscles were shredded. Yes, plan B is often very ugly and macabre. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-78320852607651590232017-01-25T01:17:45.688-08:002017-01-25T01:17:45.688-08:00Anon wrote:
"All I can say to you is to look ...Anon wrote:<br />"All I can say to you is to look long and hard at what God has created. Look at the wide variety of foods for humans. I think there's about two thousand edible plants. Would a evil or questionable God give such diversity?"<br /><br />You might want to cast your net of observation quite a bit wider than some edible plants. There are a lot more bad things in the world (from a human perspective) than good things.<br /><br />Lots lots more.<br /><br />Human technology, especially the modern variety, has enabled us to neutralize many of the immediate dangers, but it's still a wretched dog-eat-dog world out there, presumably all designed by a creator.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86456078696472590002017-01-24T23:06:57.761-08:002017-01-24T23:06:57.761-08:00That Dennis got under Bobs skin is another example...That Dennis got under Bobs skin is another example of Dennis having status and prestige within the COG community, despite having 'fallen away.'<br /><br />BB I question your label of amateur psychologists or deprogrammers. Often an amateur is very knowledgeable, sometimes more knowledgeable than the professional. My observation in the church was that when ministers or church members forced themselves on others to play psychologist or psychiatrist, they were ignorant. It's like a 10 year old playing doctor. I doubt most of these people have read even one self help book cover to cover. Yet church members go to their minister for advice, expecting the wisdom of a Dr Phil. What a joke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33492231708676325482017-01-24T17:14:52.357-08:002017-01-24T17:14:52.357-08:00Welcome to the Sha-na-na-na, where the needles ten...Welcome to the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJf_hwdptKo&feature=youtu.be&t=8" rel="nofollow">Sha-na-na-na</a>, where the needles tend to stick. <br /><br />BB said: "There are amateur psychologists, amateur deprogrammers, and even people who deliberately take contrarian viewpoints. But, the good news is that a blog is equally unfair to everyone."<br /><br />After having left Armstrongism, <a href="https://youtu.be/G_X0486ynLI?t=3003" rel="nofollow">we all still tend to do this</a> all to often. <br /> <br />nemoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-52411699114220366022017-01-24T13:01:50.236-08:002017-01-24T13:01:50.236-08:00you're Dennis Diehl
If the comment that got u...<i>you're Dennis Diehl</i><br /><br />If the comment that got under Bob Thiel's skin had been from me, or some other faceless, unknown blogger, it wouldn't have rated an angry headline. But a former WCG minister, with a reputation for critique, that's front-page news. I'm content to be part of "and others".Hosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285219921252563944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33970747972408313132017-01-24T09:06:52.152-08:002017-01-24T09:06:52.152-08:00Abstract
The study of viral molecular genetics has...Abstract<br />The study of viral molecular genetics has produced a considerable body of research into the sequences and phylogenetic relationships of human and animal viruses. A review of this literature suggests that humans have been afflicted by viruses throughout their evolutionary history, although the number and types have changed. Some viruses show evidence of long-standing intimate relationship and cospeciation with hominids, while others are more recently acquired from other species, including African monkeys and apes while our line was evolving in that continent, and domesticated animals and rodents since the Neolithic. Viral selection for specific resistance polymorphisms is unlikely, but in conjunction with other parasites, viruses have probably contributed to selection pressure maintaining major histocompatibility complex (MHC) diversity and a strong immune response. They may also have played a role in the loss in our lineage of N-glycolylneuraminic acid (Neu5Gc), a cell-surface receptor for many infectious agents. Shared viruses could have affected hominid species diversity both by promoting divergence and by weeding out less resistant host populations, while viruses carried by humans and other animals migrating out of Africa may have contributed to declines in other populations. Endogenous retroviral insertions since the divergence between humans and chimpanzees were capable of directly affecting hominid evolution through changes in gene expression and development.<br />Copyright 2003 Wiley-Liss, Inc.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34776992618522859092017-01-24T08:58:00.658-08:002017-01-24T08:58:00.658-08:00Michael
Is God pulling the wool over our eyes? I t...Michael<br />Is God pulling the wool over our eyes? I think most people secretly ask themselves about the true nature of God. I don't believe such honest questioning offends God. Presumably much of His creation, such as a wide spectrum of creatures and plants was designed with this in mind. All I can say to you is to look long and hard at what God has created. Look at the wide variety of foods for humans. I think there's about two thousand edible plants. Would a evil or questionable God give such diversity? Look at gardening, the variety to choose from. Would a quack God do that. Have about pets. Some people spend a small fortune putting their deceased pets in a pet cemetery. Do these people think God messed up with pets. Observe what God has created.<br /><br />Regarding the issue of germs and viruses, I believe they are Gods quality control agents. God is a God of high quality and will not tolerate sub standard quality. The solution is to obey Gods health laws, just as the road laws must be obeyed, or else!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25607439156858458152017-01-24T07:35:51.439-08:002017-01-24T07:35:51.439-08:00Anon wrote:
"Gods 'good' refers to Hi...Anon wrote:<br />"Gods 'good' refers to His creation in Genesis. This obviously excludes mankind sins."<br /><br />Just wondering in which category you put the exquisitely designed and highly effective rabies virus.<br />Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-11950840364612129572017-01-24T07:35:10.053-08:002017-01-24T07:35:10.053-08:00As Axl Rose once sang, "Welcome to the Jungle...As Axl Rose once sang, "Welcome to the Jungle". A blog, in which there is a relatively high percentage of free speech is going to be simultaneously many things. One of them, for sure, is open discussion, but not all of it is benign, especially on a blog that is dedicated to exposure of the continuing problems of a false and cultic religion, and recovery from the same. There can be new agendas, there are sometimes people who are determined to "win" at all costs, there are those who hopefully will receive help because they are still ensnared by false teachings, there are others who can't rise to the level of discussing ideas, but refuse to be excluded, so make ad hominem and strawman attacks, there are people who like to teach, and wonder why this is not a classroom-like environment where their ideas are embraced as being the education which they had intended, and some even like to push buttons, then recede into the background as they watch the reactions they cause. There are amateur psychologists, amateur deprogrammers, and even people who deliberately take contrarian viewpoints.<br /><br />But, the good news is that a blog is equally unfair to everyone. I have yet to meet anyone who is universally loved, and never confronted. That is especially true of those who make their comments, and themselves identifiable through using either their given names, or a regular screen name, ie, those who are "in the fishbowl", as I've always liked to say. <br /><br />There are probably always going to be people who have special sensitivities. We usually don't get to know from words on a screen how vulnerable some of the people may be. Over the years, I've encountered several people who were right on the edge, and really needing some positive feedback. Not everybody has thick skin from their life's experiences, and there is almost no way that we could know who does, and who doesn't.<br /><br />In a sense, we are the community which we never could be while we were part of Armstrongism, which was an environment where real personality and identity of self had to be repressed, on the pain of being thought of as unconverted, or rebellious. Like the Russians emerging from communism, some experience problems in adjusting to the normal freedoms of humanity. These are just temporary growing pains.<br /><br />BB<br /><br />Byker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-80674614314573590152017-01-24T07:33:50.229-08:002017-01-24T07:33:50.229-08:00Dennis wrote:
"I have had clients already tel...Dennis wrote:<br />"I have had clients already tell me their relatives were in some crazy church "like the adventists but out of Pasadena, California.." That's when I have to decide to either keep talking or just say, "how about that..."<br /><br />ha!<br /><br />In that case I would say some things are better left unsaid, but if not Im sure it led to some interesting conversations..Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-33830911500078691532017-01-24T07:14:02.241-08:002017-01-24T07:14:02.241-08:00"I'm an atheist, and I thank God for it.&..."I'm an atheist, and I thank God for it."<br />George Bernard ShawAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48684570597076890762017-01-24T06:13:02.740-08:002017-01-24T06:13:02.740-08:00I'm waiting for the magic moment here in Portl...I'm waiting for the magic moment here in Portland, home of large WCG churches in the past to have a client end up saying, "Holy shit....you're Dennis Diehl. I heard you speak at the Feast once!" lol I have had clients already tell me their relatives were in some crazy church "like the adventists but out of Pasadena, California.." That's when I have to decide to either keep talking or just say, "how about that..."DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-7557190533385990752017-01-24T06:00:29.195-08:002017-01-24T06:00:29.195-08:00I am sometimes wary of sharing personally here at ...I am sometimes wary of sharing personally here at times as I still bristle, I know at, "you ministers" "ivory towers" "controlling others" and the generic snark that gets hurled at me for having been one and also for moving into my views of the Bible and religion but it's nothing I can help. I can't unsee what I do see and the quote "Ignore-ance is what you ignore and not just what you don't see, but what you won't see" I know when one believes they have to move heaven and earth to defend it out of fear , perhaps, of what it might mean if it were no really so. I did that for decades, but what is so is not going to change just because I don't like reality. I also know that one man's reality is another's heresy. It's just how we all individually filter and process our needs and world.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-32250225649379131292017-01-24T05:54:10.336-08:002017-01-24T05:54:10.336-08:00Dennis
All ministers in Herbs church were treated ...Dennis<br />All ministers in Herbs church were treated with kids gloves and treated as near royalty, so ministers living in ivory towers is not mere projection. Perhaps some lesser so than others. ...<br />I would find it hard to believe that you didn't have to adjust some habits in your dealings with others, once you were no longer a minister.'<br /><br />I agree that the ministry and specific individuals were tolerated well beyond their shelf life. Problem types, dictators and the self righteous control freaks such as a Dave Pack were merely moved around to inflict themselves upon yet another congregation rather than sat down and told to shape up or ship out. I saw this many times. In many ways, HQ ignored ministers unless they needed to control them with "snowflakes from heaven" as I called them in the form of memos and "to be played in all the church" nonsense. <br /><br />By projection I meant, on me. I can't convince anyone but I know me and living high on beef cattle and living in ivory towers is a foreign and uncomfortable concept to me. I didn't grow up that way and how I grew up had far more lasting influence on me than WCG or the ministry. These are my perceptions of myself. My core is live and let live, things work out (they didn't as I had thought of course but they have worked out nicely personally after going through all the mud and the blood and the beer as they say) and don't sweat the small stuff which WCG tended to sweat bullets over. <br /><br />My transition into at first EMS and then therapeutic massage fits me very well. It's the "how can I help you" part of me and now, with a very successful practice , so far good health and putting the past where it belongs, I am more happy and content than I have been in decades. I have made my transitional mistakes as all transitions are messy, but I survived where I thought I might not and the air around me is clear and fresh again with combination of to soon old and too late schmart and older and smarter.... <br /><br /><br /><br />DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-81254420060418960522017-01-24T05:16:15.774-08:002017-01-24T05:16:15.774-08:00Ignorance and ignoring – although the context is d...Ignorance and ignoring – although the context is different, I can't help thinking, willfully ignorant. And there is also denial and avoidance. I sometimes wonder what one is thinking when they rerence an unreliable or out of date source, partially quote a person or a verse, or use something out of context. <br /><br />The Painful Truth has been posting pages of a lengthy letter by Orlin Grabbe, who considered WCG ministers to be Biblically illiterate, and that the claim 'tell us if we're wrong and we'll correct it' proved to be mere rhetoric. The method of Biblical 'proof' was a form of eisegesis, and while the facts may be wrong, the conclusion must is always correct. Armstrongism must be defended at all costs.<br /><br />Dennis carefully showed how 'line upon line' doesn't mean what we were led to believe it meant. It was not presented as a form of Bible study, but a mockery of false prophets and teachers. But HWA said otherwise – why not just say he was wrong? No, that would loosen a brick in the COG foundation. It's safer to continue to argue by ignoring the facts presented.<br /><br />In Bob's response to Dennis, we were reminded: <i>Do not despise prophecies.</i> Why wasn't the rest of the sentence quoted? It's a WCG favorite, <i>but prove all things...</i> Was Dennis despising prophecy or proving (testing, examining) it?<br /><br />And teaching - Jesus taught his disciples using a form of historical Yeshiva, and Paul was taught in a similar way by Gamaliel. In Yeshiva, a disciple asks his teacher difficult questions, and a good disciple answers questions by asking more difficult questions...<br /><br /><br /><br />Hosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285219921252563944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-90177302725141506872017-01-23T23:44:30.952-08:002017-01-23T23:44:30.952-08:00Right on, Gary! (Your comment at 12:07)
And, I&#...Right on, Gary! (Your comment at 12:07)<br /><br />And, I'm sure the earlier poster was probably citing that 1977 reference book having learned of it during a sermon, as we certainly all used to get much of the information which supported our beliefs in that same way. However, since the 1990s, and the advent of cladistics, even the phrases "transitional forms", or transitional fossils have become anachronistic, and are no longer used within the scientific community. Strong familial relationships can be demonstrated within the existing fossil record, but it is impossible to prove descendency. This is another example of how the scientific method tests, retests, and corrects the body of knowledge which we know as science. Also, many more fossils have been discovered, examined, and classified over the past 40 years.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.com