tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post7195922915806242814..comments2024-03-28T11:27:04.027-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: The Battling Church of God Archives SitesNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-86874193670634051192016-07-08T09:29:18.116-07:002016-07-08T09:29:18.116-07:00to Anonymous of July 7, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Thanks f...to Anonymous of July 7, 2016 at 10:14 AM<br /><br />Thanks for your response.<br /><br />I have come to the conclusion that the old WWCG in the US was an entirely different entity to that found, in my experience, in good old Aus. Every one that I ever met during various congregation assemblies was polite, kind, friendly and otherwise very supportive.<br />Maybe it had a lot to do with cultural differences. From what I have read on this blog I am so glad my experience of Armstrongism was in Australia and not the USA.<br /><br />cheers<br />ralph.fRalphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09094056276430807523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-34156553926805167862016-07-07T10:14:32.510-07:002016-07-07T10:14:32.510-07:00Ralf, 'moral rot' is me being polite, but ...Ralf, 'moral rot' is me being polite, but since you have pressed the issue. The average church member was a bully, a thug, very discernible with the mental penalties such as a negative self image. The average member was heartless and exploitive. Your strong objection, or former membership does not change this reality. Oh, by this time when I was a church member, a daddy minister would be threatening me, telling me 'not to offend' members. This is what bullies members do. Real adults don't go to a daddy. I attended spokesman club for 5 years, and there was rarely a speech that magnified the ten commandments. It stood out like a sore thumb. You obviously did not arouse envy or a Cain Vs Abel attitude, as many did. <br />Neither would real adults would not be in a Rod or Dave church either, only bullies would.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-14484512012623024522016-07-05T21:54:35.749-07:002016-07-05T21:54:35.749-07:00how is it that you think your proclaimations of co...how is it that you think your proclaimations of cog demise are any more legitimate than their own proclaimations...both of you are merely one breath from non existence, so why are you right and they are wrong?<br /><br />and the great irony is that you are doing your part to keep them in the media; if you people wouldnt continually publish things about them, google searches may very well not even return much from a key word inquiry...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30695748956766653502016-07-05T19:51:22.850-07:002016-07-05T19:51:22.850-07:00to Anonymous of July 5, 2016 at 2:45 AM
You wrote...to Anonymous of July 5, 2016 at 2:45 AM<br /><br />You wrote "So half the church fell away because of the moral rot."<br /><br />It could be because of my once described "thick filters" but I still don't get your point. Perhaps if you would define "moral rot" it might help.<br />From my perspective, if the members lacked in moral code why would they leave the 'transforming' old WWCG and follow the new splinters who claimed to adhere to HWA teachings. Are you really saying that the membership of the old WWCG was morally rotten, then how so? And, if such is the case then I strongly object to your words as I was part of that "membership" for many years.<br />I left because I considered the Tkach dismantling of Biblical doctrine be highly immoral.<br /><br />cheers<br />ralph.fRalphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09094056276430807523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-52575101847220258162016-07-05T02:45:53.264-07:002016-07-05T02:45:53.264-07:00Ralf, half of the members followed the splinters w...Ralf, half of the members followed the splinters when Tkach changed the doctrines. The remainder stopped coming to church. So half the church fell away because of the moral rot. That includes both ministers and members. I suspect the moral rot was worse for the ministry, but I only had 5 different ministers, so I can't be conclusive. The remaining 'church' half seem to be struggling, based on the weak message in their publications. UCG is notorious for their flat articles. Likewise, if these people were converted, why are they staying with Psycho Rods church?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-78468459770564787612016-07-04T22:13:29.054-07:002016-07-04T22:13:29.054-07:00on July 4, 2016 at 4:22 PM
Herbert W. Weakwrist wr...on July 4, 2016 at 4:22 PM<br />Herbert W. Weakwrist wrote:-<br /><br />"Grow up Ralph, its Yoohoovuh."<br /><br />Wasn't he US President back in 1929-33?<br /><br />also:-<br />"Now get with the program son."<br /><br />What program is that? You sound like one of the ministry team from an old WWCG congregation as it was breaking up. The congregation I used to attend so long ago.<br />I thought I recognized your name.<br /><br />cheers<br />ralph.fRalphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09094056276430807523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-27771113715113633532016-07-04T21:58:46.034-07:002016-07-04T21:58:46.034-07:00on July 4, 2016 at 12:22 PM
Anonymous wrote:-
&qu...on July 4, 2016 at 12:22 PM<br />Anonymous wrote:-<br /><br />"The cause was the moral rot in the church. Tkach brought the doctrines into harmony with church members immorality."<br /><br />If such is the case then why did so many choose to follow the splinters? Unless, of course, by "moral rot in the church" you are referring to the ministry and not the members, but your wording doesn't suggest that.<br /><br />cheers<br />ralph.fRalphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09094056276430807523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-45729344370674803122016-07-04T20:02:15.772-07:002016-07-04T20:02:15.772-07:00Dont you recall Junior moaning about how there wer...Dont you recall Junior moaning about how there were 40,000 unaccounted for that were neither with GCI or the splinters? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84482333284296119012016-07-04T16:25:19.039-07:002016-07-04T16:25:19.039-07:00I grew up in Romania under Communism Connie.
We go...I grew up in Romania under Communism Connie.<br />We got information with the same amount of spin that you get in the USA now. It is evident to us who lived under that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-37520166755903125502016-07-04T16:22:09.674-07:002016-07-04T16:22:09.674-07:00Grow up Ralph, its Yoohoovuh . Learn it...Live it....Grow up Ralph, its Yoohoovuh . Learn it...Live it... Love It.<br /> Now get with the program son.Herbert W. Weakwristnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-54303207193470731612016-07-04T15:58:35.399-07:002016-07-04T15:58:35.399-07:003.24 PM my understanding is that the combined majo...3.24 PM my understanding is that the combined major slivers amount to a half of the former 100,000 WWCG membership. The church lost a least a half of its members since Herbie died.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-73002340850596210142016-07-04T15:24:25.212-07:002016-07-04T15:24:25.212-07:00Considering this "harmonizing" ran off 5...Considering this "harmonizing" ran off 5/6ths of its membership, it must have been a small percentage of immorality!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-69787804356400469682016-07-04T14:34:19.349-07:002016-07-04T14:34:19.349-07:00NCK:
The internet was a big help in having people...NCK:<br /><br />The internet was a big help in having people leave the WCG in 1995, whether out of the COG movement completely, or for the formation of a splinter group like UCG. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14910856904624749641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18843280848620690062016-07-04T13:26:50.452-07:002016-07-04T13:26:50.452-07:0012:22
Ok! I see where you are coming from.
Perha...12:22<br /><br />Ok! I see where you are coming from. <br />Perhaps we can agree on that at least it was not like some "Chinese party congress" falling apart by "information flow." Perhaps some felt embarassed by what they had been thinking true, or inner decay as you call it. But it was not caused by external pressure of any kind. <br /><br />The analogy I use is the Perestrojka caused by that other Russian reformer.<br />They wanted to change a few things but knowinly or unknowingly they removed some cornerstones causing the edifice to collapse. <br /><br />I believe 95% presented on this blog untrue, since they assume some sort of inner evil in armstrongism, whereas I only perceive magnificent unprofessionalism.<br /><br />I do not know where the line is crossed between evil and unprofessionalism, but that is all I see. (like this whole lcg meredith affair, I can see why adversaries would want to call it evil, but I would call it plain stupidity and unprofessional behavior)<br /><br />nck nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-7489409107185731622016-07-04T12:22:54.444-07:002016-07-04T12:22:54.444-07:00Nck, I beg to differ. The change in fundamental c...Nck, I beg to differ. The change in fundamental church doctrines, is the effect. The cause was the moral rot in the church. Tkach brought the doctrines into harmony with church members immorality. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-68454276148368942472016-07-04T10:29:27.984-07:002016-07-04T10:29:27.984-07:00This collection of archive sites, once again, demo...This collection of archive sites, once again, demonstrates that there are so many wide divergencies, that the Armstrong movement had to have been bogus from the start. Gamaliel, plain and simple. <br /><br />Obviously, a movement evolves. It is amusing to watch people who do not believe in evolution attempt to deal with the evolution of their church. Apparently, they judge correctness by relative strictness, which is what one would expect of people who place primary emphasis on the Old Covenant. <br /><br />Who even knows of these archive sites except for Armstrong nostalgia buffs? We have certainly realized that they are a great source of information which can be used to hold revisionists accountable, those who say that conditions and doctrines were never as bad as we portray them. But, they certainly do not constitute any sort of powerful message. They're more like a forgotten, musty old book lying in the basement of a library.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-5565654835453167992016-07-04T10:12:43.263-07:002016-07-04T10:12:43.263-07:00"Banned, which at times can be uncomfortable,..."Banned, which at times can be uncomfortable, or a bit over the top, nonetheless, provides a resource and reference place for the clearance of information. It is a bit like "Radio Free Europe" was in its day!"<br /><br />Excellent comparison.<br /><br />Having access to all of the archival writings of all of the writers over the years is very helpful. It is also helpful, if somewhat amusing, to read the "corrections" or amendments or explanations/clarifications to some of those writings.<br /><br />Will an unbiased, reliable history of the various 20th century Churches of God (up until, say, 1986 or so) ever be published? Including the first several decades of the 20th century's precursor churches prior to HWA's hijacking of the movement?<br /><br />John F<br />IndianaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12790870095301695465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-89081590698780102942016-07-04T10:07:34.945-07:002016-07-04T10:07:34.945-07:00Connie,
-wcg fell apart because of the fundamenta...Connie,<br /><br />-wcg fell apart because of the fundamental changes in its foundational doctrines. (not information flow)<br />-wcg in the 1970's was part of the state department's official "moral" diplomacy in the effort to fight communism<br />-regarding your statement about 'RFE" There are scientific studies on Radio Monte Carlo and other stations broadcasting "American" culture . They prominently figure the World Tomorrow as a huge spender enabling these stations to function <br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-54769043246834465292016-07-04T09:15:05.381-07:002016-07-04T09:15:05.381-07:00Richard, first Herbies 'heart failure' was...Richard, first Herbies 'heart failure' was a heart flutter. Salesman Herbie milked this for all it's worth by 'shading' the truth. Even in 1977, many new people were coming into the church, so more time was needed. The falling away has shakened people off the fence. The splintering has also loosened members chains, and in the case of 'independent Christians,' broken their chains. In the OT, God warned ancient Israel for generations before military defeat and enslavement. This is because a moral slide takes generations. Had the 1950s and 1960s generation repented, this generation would find it much easier to repent. The accumulative nature of sin means today's generation has passed the point of no return.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-13962669802799808272016-07-04T09:14:22.690-07:002016-07-04T09:14:22.690-07:00I thought RCG had the biggest biblically based web...I thought RCG had the biggest biblically based website in the world?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-89474830741177385222016-07-04T07:29:37.120-07:002016-07-04T07:29:37.120-07:00Anonymous at 1:06 spoke of the fall of WCG and the...Anonymous at 1:06 spoke of the fall of WCG and the Soviet Union<br /><br />Indeed, they are not unrelated. Tyrannical communist governments cannot operate in an environment of free information. The personal computer and the ability for people to communicate with one another and to "research the history" breaks the bonds. <br /><br />Banned, which at times can be uncomfortable, or a bit over the top, nonetheless, provides a resource and reference place for the clearance of information. It is a bit like "Radio Free Europe" was in its day! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14910856904624749641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74936979012003616092016-07-04T07:11:33.957-07:002016-07-04T07:11:33.957-07:00If Jesus Christ resurrected Herbert W Armstrong fr...If Jesus Christ resurrected Herbert W Armstrong from total heart failure in 1977 to put God's Church back on track, why did Jesus Christ do nothing when little Joey Tkach inherited the Church and its wealth, shrunk the Church, killed Ambassador University and changed all the major doctrines so it no longer resembled what it once was? <br /><br />What was Christ's purpose in postponing the inevitable outcome? Why couldn't the "great falling away" happen in 1977 instead of the 1990s? What was God's purpose?<br /><br />What was the purpose of the Church's witness and warning of the coming Great Tribulation in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s when many who received the warning are no longer alive today? <br /><br />RichardLake of Fire Church of Godnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-59799290581539828802016-07-04T06:35:54.494-07:002016-07-04T06:35:54.494-07:00Obviously the true website would be easy to ascert...Obviously the true website would be easy to ascertain, just count how many photos of HWA they have. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-65912133630118514052016-07-04T06:06:51.767-07:002016-07-04T06:06:51.767-07:00on July 4, 2016 at 12:56 AM
Redfox712 wrote:-
&q...on July 4, 2016 at 12:56 AM<br /> Redfox712 wrote:-<br /><br />"I cannot help but wonder if some also share this hope."<br /><br />I did, once. But following the Tkach dynasty's dismantling of the WWCG and after a relatively short period with another smaller group I came to the conclusion that HWA had fully exploited <b>an idea whose time had come</b>. After that, there was nothing left, except the truth.<br />"Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." <br /><br /><br />cheers<br />ralph.fRalphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09094056276430807523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-76347508215639116222016-07-04T05:54:16.085-07:002016-07-04T05:54:16.085-07:00Anonymous said...
Isn't it interesting th... Anonymous said...<br /><br /> Isn't it interesting that the church imploded, just like the old Soviet commie empire. The two were very similar, both tyrannical and altruistic. And the Soviet empire fell on December 1991, about the same time that as the church splintering. This defies random probability. It seems that the churches ideological daddy was communism rather than biblical morality.<br /><br /> July 4, 2016 at 1:06 AM<br />__________________________________________________________________<br /><br />“The goal of “Communism” is identical to that of British Israel and they emanate from the same source and serve the same masters. Capitalism finances Communism and Russian Communism is state capitalism. Communism promises a perfect society and British Israel promises a paradise on earth. Are they the same?”<br /><br />“The Union Jack”<br />-Published ca. 1970<br /><br />http://hwarmstrong.com/british-israelism/bi-deceit.htmJameshttp://hwarmstrong.comnoreply@blogger.com