tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post7963495700462563992..comments2024-03-28T01:47:50.775-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: The Saddest Thing About Betrayal Is That It Never Comes From Your EnemiesNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3760749909220485672018-01-08T22:27:22.410-08:002018-01-08T22:27:22.410-08:00Escapee-- helpful excellent post!Escapee-- helpful excellent post!Ekklesianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-13286142516536978752018-01-08T17:11:53.479-08:002018-01-08T17:11:53.479-08:00...on the "Liking a person" video the re......on the "Liking a person" video the relavent segment is 17:45-25:31.Escapeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-71534306005050566072018-01-08T15:49:56.022-08:002018-01-08T15:49:56.022-08:00I struggled for years trying to shed the callous, ...I struggled for years trying to shed the callous, cynical attitudes that are widespread in the Living Church of God. Of course, there were always the little old ladies and gentle grandfathers in the church whom I tried to emulate, but failed. I admired those kind people because they seemed to be above all the politics and arrogance. The problem was that the leadership is poisoned and that affects the whole, despite the isolated good examples.<br /><br />I could only escape by changing how I thought about people. It doesn't work to try to behave better, to try to be nicer, to try to make people like you more - those are all facades if you maintain a world view that all is vanity and can only be fixed in the Millennium - a world view that sees people as either 1st resurrectionees or 2nd resurrectionees.<br /><br />I adopted the viewpoint of the man in the below videos. When you watch and listen to him, don't ask how you can treat people as he did, but ask how you can think about people as he did. For certain, his world view is contrary to that of the Living Church of God.<br /><br />When I feel my mind drifting back toward the heartless apathy which I was saturated in during my decades in that church, I have to remind myself to adjust my thinking, and remember the following things, which you will find expressed in the video links. <br /><br />1) Start liking people. <br />2) Be interested in people for who they really are.<br />2) Be convinced that every person is unique and matters.<br />3) It’s the one-on-one time with a person, in the moment, in brief, everyday encounters, out of the spotlight that is important.<br />4) Be concerned with people’s well-being now.<br />5) The prominent things are seldom what are most important, but the story behind the person’s face that is.<br />6) Learn the things that children have to teach you.<br /><br />I left the Living Church of God years ago when I saw how they had a system of lording over their membership and protecting the leadership first. But it wasn’t until I adopted the attitudes in the above list that my world changed. Treating people right just happened organically after I started thinking about them differently. I don’t have to try to be kind, it just happens now that I like people. It’s amazing how people somehow sense your attitude toward them - when I adopted this world view people suddenly started responding to me differently, as if they were no longer apprehensive - I was dumbfounded because I didn't even say all that much to them. Maybe it's a different expression or body language. I hope to eventually make the better view of people truly part of me and not have to struggle with the LCG worldview anymore. <br /><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zuqvNDdcI2E?start=1062&end=1510" rel="nofollow">Liking a person.</a><br /><a href="https://youtu.be/djoyd46TVVc" rel="nofollow">Interview</a><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IbBwDi9RIgM?start=167&end=355" rel="nofollow">Speech.</a><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TcNxY4TudXo?start=0&end=358" rel="nofollow">Hall of Fame.</a>Escapeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-52799864824487686572018-01-08T08:31:03.370-08:002018-01-08T08:31:03.370-08:00Anon 11:18 I can see it happening in my life now. ...Anon 11:18 I can see it happening in my life now. We get sermons on discernment and sowing discord and yet the dividers and discord sowers always are the ministry. They are very adept at this. From the pulpit and elsewhere, the ministry basically treat heresy as the same things as sowing discord (for the brethren), so, instead of defending their doctrine and proving "heresy" the ministry go the easy route of calling it the sowing of discord. Slam dunk! The ministry lies (or deceive themselves) and wins again in their little fiefdom. Meanwhile I suspect it is now about 95% of those that have actually come to know Armstrongism who now no longer want anything to do with Armstrongism. And yet it is the disparaging of people that honestly disagree in order to marginalize them that is the definition of sowing discord and dividing the brethren. <br />As a side not, anyone in the splinter COGs that now state that WCG and the ministry were wrong back in the day will be told that it was some flaw in the "laymember" that caused the trouble even while the splinter COG minister is currently in great disagreement with those past ministers of the WCG that are not now in their current splinter group. They are a tight group, these ministers, they circle the wagons when a complaint occurs regarding a minister in their group. But, as we saw with the COGWA/UCG split, that loyalty quickly dissipates; you see, those ministers in the alternate group are now suspect. Why can't people see the illogic/hypocrisy of this????<br />The Shepherd and the Lord of the Harvest are where our faith and trust must lie. Though my posts are critical of the COGs, I sometimes feel that I must say something, though maybe not worth the time. Nevertheless, there is thankfulness and joy in my life and heart that the Lord saves and lives in those who seek or have found Him. Ekklesianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-57127856791387792982018-01-07T11:22:25.575-08:002018-01-07T11:22:25.575-08:00You do not get due process. That is exactly what h...You do not get due process. That is exactly what happened to my family. Imagine friends You've known for 40 years. You've had over for dinners, movies, events, etc...almost immediately act as if they never knew you. It was a crazy feeling, but if one could ever see Satan visibly working, I saw it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-81252288844736918302018-01-07T11:18:40.175-08:002018-01-07T11:18:40.175-08:00Although I did not depart from LCG, I would like t...Although I did not depart from LCG, I would like to respond to the question. My circumstance involved another fractured group off of WWCG exactly the same as LCG. To make it as short as I can, a particular minister and myself went down a path concerning a "ruling" he made. Because I disagreed with him based on evidence that did not support his ruling, he deemed me and my family as heretics and then proceeded to turn everyone who had known us for 40 years, against us. Sermon after sermon, backroom whispering, etc...found me friendless in the church. I chose only to speak to 2 close people about it in the church, which at the time I was accused of sowing discord by talking to everyone. Once I asked for proof of this so called sowing of discord I was doing, none could be produced. Isn't it funny how if you have the pulpit, you have power to control the puppets? It has been several years now, and a handful have left over similar problems. I have been able to keep in touch with them thankfully. I rest easy knowing that ultimately, these hirelings will answer for scattering the flock and destroying long time friendships. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25654590417581481882018-01-07T05:05:04.407-08:002018-01-07T05:05:04.407-08:00lol
the kathars seemed to have a rather "bla...lol<br /><br />the kathars seemed to have a rather "black and white" view. Only chosen ones among them could "make it" and they led an ascetic life. (easy to accomplish in medieval mountains) Satan and Jesus mix up as created beings all very interesting if you have the time and not spend it at movie theaters.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-75055469900930321202018-01-06T15:42:51.599-08:002018-01-06T15:42:51.599-08:00Was that a Katharsis for you, nck???
LOL
BBWas that a Katharsis for you, nck???<br /><br />LOL<br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12806293465640222222018-01-06T05:40:21.509-08:002018-01-06T05:40:21.509-08:00Good points, Ekklesia. That fits with how I interp...Good points, Ekklesia. That fits with how I interpreted their behavior as well. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-56116463062208239732018-01-05T21:43:23.246-08:002018-01-05T21:43:23.246-08:00In the latest Star Wars more about "the Force...In the latest Star Wars more about "the Force" is revealed. It seems one can tap into this impersonal field. <br /><br />The Force however seems to hearken to the Eastern philosophy of balance, therefore requiring the increase of it in one deemed "good" as "bad" rises somewhere else. <br /><br />The Satan construct does not seem to match God as a balancing power. But thinking of it I suddenly get a grasp of the Kathar way of viewing things.<br /><br /><br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-40225688897695665522018-01-05T11:18:40.842-08:002018-01-05T11:18:40.842-08:00Look, the ministry believes that the Holy Spirit c...Look, the ministry believes that the Holy Spirit can only lead to Truth. Deviance from acknowledgement of that truth (all the doctrines they believe- large and small) shows you do not have the Holy Spirit. If you leave because you disagree with something, that is proof to them that the Holy Spirit is not working with you, so, what's the use in giving more than a single call or inquiry? Obviously you have moved from the truth and the holy spirit. Not much help for that, they believe. Besides, it makes their life easier to just dismiss such things even if it isn't always doctrinal. There is probably some part of them that also believes pain with damaged faith and confidence shows you were never one with the holy Spirit. Again, what can be done? It is not your time and the second resurrection (hopefully) awaits.<br /><br />Maybe a bit too harsh in this assessment, but by in large that is the mindset. Maybe a few more hand-waving calls will be given or someone drop by to see you, but I have seldom seen this as effective in bringing someone back to the COGs (count your blessings). The ministry and others know this and since attending with the "true church" is more important than comfort, again what should one expect?? <br /> Ekklesianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-89550107814325886462018-01-04T20:03:56.658-08:002018-01-04T20:03:56.658-08:00"What about that part when God says to leave ..."What about that part when God says to leave the 99 to go after the 1???"<br /><br />Hard to argue with that one. But the members think they have to leave that to the ministers, and the ministers won't do it. <br /> <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3491992080531931502018-01-04T12:06:48.282-08:002018-01-04T12:06:48.282-08:00I was in a small splinter COG for a number of year...I was in a small splinter COG for a number of years, and after leaving, experienced everything talked about in this post. After realizing for all those years spent there, I knew very little of what my Bible had to offer. For all that time, I had just been told what to read, and given warped answers out of context on how to deal with issues. I am out of that box now, but kept what I could prove and was biblically sound. It is this same box that those who called themselves friends, are still stuck in. Their way of handling or dealing with someone leaving, is based on the warped approach to it given to them by those who call themselves ministers. Once I realized this, I could no longer hold animosity towards them. When their tree gets shook, they too will start opening the box. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-58413760083217757192018-01-04T09:54:50.088-08:002018-01-04T09:54:50.088-08:00Anon 5:42 - "Did you call them?"
No.. ...Anon 5:42 - "Did you call them?" <br /><br />No.. I was going through a personal crisis at the time. However, members and ministers of a church I attended years before I had affiliated with a COG (in other words, "the world's churches," "Christians, so-called," and "deceived Christians") heard of my plight and called, visited, checked-up on me and offered help right away. The members and ministers of the COG knew of my plight and never checked up on me. Says a lot in my book. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74415768257295675822018-01-04T06:01:37.677-08:002018-01-04T06:01:37.677-08:00@ Anon 5:40
As the COG sees it, when you leave the...@ Anon 5:40<br />As the COG sees it, when you leave the church you are cut off from God and on the road to spiritual death."<br /><br />What about that part when God says to leave the 99 to go after the 1???<br /><br />This harsh, unloving ability to turn your collective backs on someone who could potentially be rescued with a little love and encouragement is not of God but of the devil. <br /><br />Typical Armstrongism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-46665029828692064852018-01-04T05:28:58.648-08:002018-01-04T05:28:58.648-08:00I actually did have a wcg pastor that understood t...I actually did have a wcg pastor that understood the nature of unconditional love and preached it. He also lived it. Further, he understood that people are not their actions and vice versa, and used to teach us that we would shed our problems in the resurrection when our natures would be different. He continually tried to delineate psychological problems from spiritual ones. And you know what? It was a happy and productively healthy church that he pastored.Gordon Feilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16920970799354430732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17034951732713049802018-01-03T23:33:43.601-08:002018-01-03T23:33:43.601-08:00Did anyone ever really feel approval from the mini...Did anyone ever really feel approval from the ministry and/or the brethren? How about unconditional love? I would submit for discussion that since the entire system was based on unachievable legalism, a factor which automatically causes individuals to look down upon one another, it created an environment in which a state of approval was simply not possible. Hence, whenever anyone was suddenly declared to be no longer a part of the group, there was no empathy or sympathy, only knowing looks indicating acceptance of the inevitable. How could it have been otherwise? <br /><br />When I was a teenager, a gentleman who had been very active in our local congregation, an exemplary and enthusiastic individual whom everybody liked, was put out of the church, and worse, was said to actually be demon-possessed. I remember being horrified and distraught on his behalf, "knowing" that he had pretty much had it, and would be in the Lake of Fire. I remember going through my Sunday chores the following day, thinking "Poor Mr. ..........." <br /><br />Later, as the stories started flowing back, although I didn't know what this was until later learning about it through a Jimi Hendrix song, it became obvious that the man was a manic-depressive, bi-polar. Apparently, some of the things he did while on the low portion of his cycle caused concern. He was also unable to be responsive to ministerial counsel.<br /><br />Most people believe that others perceive their surroundings similarly to themselves. There are all manner of mental states, filters to the mind and senses, and in some cases, heightened senses or awarenesses. The people who are affected by these phenomena often mask or hide them for as long as it is possible, so that others will accept them as normal. When you have an environment such as an ACOG, where everyone is attempting to be a yellow pencil in order to "qualify" for something or other, anyone who is different will eventually be excluded from the system. I'm not defending 100% of that differentness, merely making an observation. Because, let's face it. In some cases, some of these different people can be mentally unstable, bizarre, disruptive, or offensive. That's especially bad in a church that does not believe in counselling from professionally trained people who are not members of the group.<br /><br />Whether or not any of us were shunned, we all have something in common, if we left or were put out. We became unapproved. Not just passively, or imaginarily disapproved, but hugely disapproved of by an entire organization. That feeling alone is very uncomfortable, and once experienced, humans often will crave approval in all aspects of their lives, as they were subjugated and forced to operate in the mode of a child. Once you've been disfellowshipped and return, there will always be a grey cloud surrounding you, known to the other brethren, and certainly known by you. You'll never recapture even the same level of approval you had had prior to leaving. In that respect, the best course of action is to understand that friendships within legalistic sytems will always be conditional, and artificial. They are based on convenience during the timespan of your membership. It is yet another thing you are not told as you enter. You find it out same as we all did, on your way out the door.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-13847147870283772512018-01-03T19:28:21.485-08:002018-01-03T19:28:21.485-08:00It's a strange thing: I was for many years in ...It's a strange thing: I was for many years in one church area and I saw the level of concern go up and down like a whore's pants. At times, there were more people sincerely seeking to help than there was need. At those times it was a church of bearing each other's burdens without complaint. But at other times, if I had gone up in flames, nobody would have even pissed on me to put out the fire. Gordon Feilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16920970799354430732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-32315818204598896052018-01-03T17:42:45.955-08:002018-01-03T17:42:45.955-08:00"After I left, didn't receive a single ca..."After I left, didn't receive a single call, email or anything. "<br /><br />Did you call them? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-40141418240340402682018-01-03T17:40:42.608-08:002018-01-03T17:40:42.608-08:00"Leave the dead to bury the dead"
As..."Leave the dead to bury the dead" <br /> <br />As the COG sees it, when you leave the church you are cut off from God and on the road to spiritual death. <br /> <br />Another scripture on this topic is Rom 16:17 <br /><br />"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." <br /><br />So the person who leave is put in that category. But, often, it's the ministers who are actually causing the division. Like having hundreds of superfluous splinter groups. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-13638631632068169542018-01-03T17:23:32.801-08:002018-01-03T17:23:32.801-08:00
Some of the cruellest betrayals came from the fal...<br />Some of the cruellest betrayals came from the false prophets (like GRF and DCP) that Satan set up to rule over his imposter cults (like PCG and RCG).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-22028083312069426772018-01-03T17:16:02.013-08:002018-01-03T17:16:02.013-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.True Breadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04630174767307245168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43183195962447439472018-01-03T16:34:15.520-08:002018-01-03T16:34:15.520-08:00I read all the comments so far, and truth is in th...I read all the comments so far, and truth is in them. I have been praying for God to lead me to His full truth and where I need to be in the church. And, I do agree with the posts that most?? of your friends in the church are conditional relating to your own actions. I pray for the Scarboroughs because I believe they were very brave and I hope they are doing okay. I have never met them, but I wish I had. I do have one friend that I feel would stick by me. And, I am so sorry for the pain that has been caused to all my friends here. Especially, Anon 9:25, I sure would have hoped I would have given you a call. I hope our spiritual journey gets a little easier. I am still in LCG but my eyes are being opened. Consider this post a "cyber hug" and to say I do appreciate you for who you are. And, Connie, I would notice and I appreciate you: :-) Have a wonderful 2018. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-66515323201026700722018-01-03T16:02:19.612-08:002018-01-03T16:02:19.612-08:00I experienced all of these....WHILE i was still in...I experienced all of these....WHILE i was still in the church.<br /><br />Whenever I got sick, with a particularly nasty virus that put me in the hospital causing me to miss services for several weeks, no one called or checked on me. I suffered alone. <br /><br />Whenever I was in a car wreck, the local minister (Jim Franks) was told about it but never once called. I suffered alone.<br /><br />Whenever I missed the Feast one year because I couldn't afford to go, no one called.<br /><br />Whenever I fell ill after traveling internationally for a church project, no one called. <br /><br />Whenever I did not attend camp one year, after having done it the previous five years, no one called.<br /><br />Whenever I stopped attending, no one called or emailed or reached out. Not even a single one of my so-called "friends". Not even my best friend. I didn't quit attending with any kind of drama. I didn't go out with a bang. I just kind of faded away. No one cared.<br /><br />I wish I had not waited so long to leave. But when the COG is all you've ever experienced, how can you possible know what it's like outside? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60029871544543968842018-01-03T09:25:37.131-08:002018-01-03T09:25:37.131-08:00I agree with ANON 12:50 - if you're not in a c...I agree with ANON 12:50 - if you're not in a clique then you don't matter. I attended a COG for almost 5 years. After I left, didn't receive a single call, email or anything. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com