tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post7977421580116663111..comments2024-03-28T22:34:16.707-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: Dennis muses...NO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-47289612569871078332014-01-09T07:38:52.423-08:002014-01-09T07:38:52.423-08:00Wow, I didn't know that John Trechak was from ...Wow, I didn't know that John Trechak was from Passaic, no less New Jersey!<br /><br />I have good memories of Passaic, including the pleasure of enjoying some concerts at the Capitol Theatre there :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-37100880640933278112014-01-09T07:20:46.602-08:002014-01-09T07:20:46.602-08:00One more thing. This is unfortunately one of the ...One more thing. This is unfortunately one of the things that I guess can happen in peoples' minds with the passing of decades. Silly me. There I was, working with John Trechak on a daily basis, eating and drinking with him, and giving him rides to and from work, being happy for him when GTA hand picked him to work on the musical staff of the America Listen personal appearance campaign, saddened when John butted heads with Joe Bauer and ended up resigning from that, visiting with John after he left the organization, even on the night Joe Tkach Sr. and Elmer McElroy were trying to track him down to disfellowship him, and being one of the people he bounced ideas off of for the original "Ambassador Review", but somehow I must be mistaking him for John Tuit???? <br /><br />It amazes me that we are able to get any truth out to the masses even among "friendlies", let alone amongst the deceived. I don't claim to know everything about the man, but was around him quite frequently during that critical embryonic stage during which he became perhaps the first effective dissident the Armstrong movement had ever had. <br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-82091461939496783342014-01-08T19:07:01.096-08:002014-01-08T19:07:01.096-08:00No, anonymous, John Trechak was from Passaic, New ...No, anonymous, John Trechak was from Passaic, New Jersey! John Trechak and I had discussed John Tuit, as he knew about the lawsuit which led to the receivership long before it broke. It was all hush-hush, and then suddenly front page news. No mistake, no confusion.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-29278743462494513692014-01-08T09:49:58.379-08:002014-01-08T09:49:58.379-08:00Byker Bob wrote, "John Trechak was from New J...Byker Bob wrote, <i>"John Trechak was from New Jersey originally and died of a heart attack."</i><br /><br />Bob, you may be confusing John Trechak with John Tuit, who wrote the book The Truth Shall Make You Free.<br /><br />John Tuit attended WCG in New Jersey, and the Tuits were good friends of my parents. John's expose of "The Work" helped them leave the cult.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-55619174890548216662014-01-08T03:39:22.666-08:002014-01-08T03:39:22.666-08:00Thanks, BykerBob
Right, no bitterness but he sure ...Thanks, BykerBob<br />Right, no bitterness but he sure as hell got accused of it. But that's par for the course. Can't call COG leaders out without being called "bitter".<br />Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-90364011413648131042014-01-07T22:02:47.174-08:002014-01-07T22:02:47.174-08:00Dennis, some of the students you and I got to inte...Dennis, some of the students you and I got to interact with had some incredible personalities! The second semester of the 1967-68 school year, somehow a number of them ended up in our off-campus dorm at 80 South Grand. A number of the students began referring to it as "80 South Crass", the word "crass" being one of the most prominent shibboleths in the AC lexicon. Three years later, some of the student workers at AC Press would still come up to me and repeat some of the old 80 S. Crass sayings, or ask me if we really jumped out of the second floor window or played football in our skivvies on the front lawn. <br /><br />My best friends, who were even wilder, had already been kicked out by that point in time, and I lasted through most of the following summer, but it sound like there were still some of the fun loving ones there to greet you a couple weeks later. What you related about Tim reminded me of one of the old sayings. AM radio was really big in the '60s, and KHJ was one of the two big rock stations. I used to sing, "Herbert W. Armstrong, 93 KHJ" as if Herbie were one of the on-air personalities. Obviously one had to be careful with stuff like that because if the wrong person heard it, a report would be on Richard Plache's desk before you could blink!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-44098000590692380622014-01-07T19:06:08.407-08:002014-01-07T19:06:08.407-08:00Thanks for that BB. I knew Tim Nugent much better...Thanks for that BB. I knew Tim Nugent much better and he was hilarious. He'd go through the dorms with GTA's voice saying, "Greeting friends around the world.." He had Ambassador Report written into his genes from the moment he stepped on campus. DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-63101812457438429002014-01-07T17:07:46.564-08:002014-01-07T17:07:46.564-08:00John Trechak was from New Jersey originally, and d...John Trechak was from New Jersey originally, and died of a heart attack. He was not British, but had attended AC in Bricket Wood for a couple years. I got to know him fairly well when we worked together in the same department. Later, when he and Tim Nugent came up with the idea for the magazine, we'd sit around at another buddy's place (Richard) as John showed us the materials which later went into the first issues. <br /><br />He was highly intelligent, a talented musician, and sincerely concerned for all of the people he saw suffering abuse at the hands of the ministry. He was also very fair-minded and ethical in his research methods for all of the materials going into his publication. He exposed the graft and error the clean way, not with false accusations or bitterness.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-36720944213155127932014-01-07T09:47:38.156-08:002014-01-07T09:47:38.156-08:00"People should stop making excuses for their ...<i>"People should stop making excuses for their pathetic leaders."</i><br /><br />Yes!<br />Let's stop making excuses for people like UCG's pathetic lying "council of elders", Herbert W Armpit, Rodders, Packman, Prison-dude, etc.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-77608898181186748962014-01-07T03:09:02.709-08:002014-01-07T03:09:02.709-08:00I only knew John T in passing and the dorm as a ki...I only knew John T in passing and the dorm as a kid. He was British and always seemed to be a determined guy to me. He returned with Ambassador Report not too many years after graduation. I think that was related to being a determied guy!DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-64940663850225641502014-01-07T01:51:58.045-08:002014-01-07T01:51:58.045-08:00People should stop making excuses for their pathet...People should stop making excuses for their pathetic leaders. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-90564592092692740222014-01-07T01:28:28.867-08:002014-01-07T01:28:28.867-08:00If the media don't like you your comments are ...If the media don't like you your comments are "rambling" and you are part of a "regime." Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-30447638746402965552014-01-07T01:27:03.175-08:002014-01-07T01:27:03.175-08:00I heard that Ghandi was a weenie who was responsib...I heard that Ghandi was a weenie who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of his own people because he had this opinionated doctrine he could not prove: do nothing while they kill you and you will go to heaven. <br /> <br />I hope he's on your team, not mine. <br /><br />It's weird (or is it?) the people who our enemies select to be our heroes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-56289080544529749092014-01-07T01:22:17.108-08:002014-01-07T01:22:17.108-08:00Accept everything. Be a wimpy spineless docile pu...Accept everything. Be a wimpy spineless docile pushover. Never fight back. It's the philosophy that explains why Buddhist nations rule the world today. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-88595571442067020112014-01-06T21:40:17.149-08:002014-01-06T21:40:17.149-08:00Always appreciate your looks backward at your time...Always appreciate your looks backward at your time in the ministry, Dennis.<br />Members had a much different limited vantage point and its good to hear a viewpoint from someone who was on the other side of the "facade" of a "unified ministry".<br /><br />You mentioned you knew John Trechak? Would love to hear more about him. He was immensely helpful to me in the late 80s, early 90s after I left. I devoured his A.Reports, and even had some letters published in it, but don't know much about the guy. <br /><br />Anon 12:03 said he died of cancer, but I thought it was heart attack? Either way, too bad.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-60207639736732339632014-01-06T21:09:43.035-08:002014-01-06T21:09:43.035-08:00I was trying to think of something meaningful to a...I was trying to think of something meaningful to add, or even some sort of intelligent comment, but I believe you pretty much said it all, Dennis.<br /><br />Even as a PK, I had no idea what might go through the mind of a minister, mostly because the adults closest to a child process things inwardly so that those closest to them never get to know their doubts, crises of faith, misgivings about carrying out authority, etc. So, thanks for spilling the beans. <br /><br />It is also peculiar how different personalities affect us in different ways. I never felt love from HWA. To me, he was someone to be feared and avoided. Oddly enough, I honestly liked Joe Tkach, Sr., in spite of the fact that he once had some harsh words for me by way of correction. Joe Jr. was somewhat of a friend, although as a teenager one could not help but fear that he would get himself in bigtime trouble, as he seemed incapable of setting boundaries for himself. Something about Dave Pack was instantly dislikable even from a distance. Gerald Flurry's younger brother was a friend of mine at SEP, and it angered me that Gerald disciplined him as if he were his father. Lastly, because of his constant classroom rants about masturbation and homosexuality, I tended to think of Rod Meredith as being some sort of buffoon, only one with authority. <br /><br />Oh, and the GTA thing. He did the same thing with me! I was tipped one Friday to the fact that on Monday, he intended to summon me to his office to ask why I hated him. This perplexed me because reality was that I admired him. Fact is, when I have a serious look on my face, as when listening to a sermon, I look like a thug about to kill someone. So, I showed up at his Saturday night singalong, and made sure he saw me smiling, clapping my hands, and singing. It did the trick. My two best friends got called in, but apparently my name was crossed off his list. <br /><br />Your experiences are more recent than mine, and you were required to get closer to the people whom I had the ability to judiciously and skillfully avoid. It is not unusual for new symptoms and after-effects of Armstrongism to manifest themselves even for someone who bailed in 1975. I can't even imagine what it must be like for someone from class of '95, especially a minister.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-9893137519175947652014-01-06T18:54:27.732-08:002014-01-06T18:54:27.732-08:00I have also benefitted from your stories, Dennis. ...I have also benefitted from your stories, Dennis. I have gone through many of the same emotions, although to a lesser extent, but I haven't thought about the meaning of this drama as deeply as you have.<br /><br />I can only echo what the earlier writers said. Your "ramblings" make perfect sense to me and resonate emotionally.<br /><br />StephenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-35459863518623261942014-01-06T18:13:09.450-08:002014-01-06T18:13:09.450-08:00Great comments guys. I was a bit concerned today ...Great comments guys. I was a bit concerned today at work while working on folk in dim rooms with nice music that I may have said too much. <br /><br />HU..All form of negativity, i have come to see , is some form of non acceptance. When negative, ask what one is not accepting and that will be the truth. Clinging to what should or must be is also a slippery sloap. How many times I thought that "this should not be happening", but it was. All I could was live with it , do my best and not take it all so personally. Hard not to at times.<br /><br />I think Dave Pack represents to me everything I never spoke up to with HWA and Tkach. That's never going to happen again.DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-68304029793730998772014-01-06T14:22:14.602-08:002014-01-06T14:22:14.602-08:00The aspect of zen and acceptance has kept coming b...The aspect of zen and acceptance has kept coming back to my thoughts today. On the one hand zen means being in touch with reality and being willing to accept it. On the other, it means being in touch with what reality is NOT, and refusing to accept that. Because there will always be abusive people around who are going to try to steal what ought to be inalienably yours: your freedom, your human rights, your power, your esteem, your wellbeing, etc. These are much more egregious crimes than stealing your physical possessions, especially if they can convince you to accept and acquiesce to this type of theft. I think Mahatma Ghandi is a good example of someone who was in touch with what he should and should not accept, and therefore acquiesce to. And I think Herbert Armstrong is a good example of someone who did nothing but steal, not just physical things, such as "tithe" money, but in every other way possible. And he took advantage of other people's better nature to do it.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-81156359711004285872014-01-06T12:03:44.093-08:002014-01-06T12:03:44.093-08:00Thank you Dennis for your ramblings. I enjoy readi...Thank you Dennis for your ramblings. I enjoy reading them. I left in the early 70's in my early 20's and got on with my life. I never understood about John Trechak who I knew reasonably well. Why he wasted all that time attacking his old religion, but at the same time I was a little bit worried that being so active a criticizer might result in an awful punishment. He did die fairly young of cancer, but that is just sad and nothing to do with what he did to criticize "gods church". So all these years I kind of still wondered if it might be true, until about 5 years ago when I started to look up people I used to know on Facebook. I was very surprised to find out that the whole thing had fallen apart.<br /><br />A few people tried to convince me that all the prophecies had come to pass and we were now in the Laodicean era. Rght.....hahaha..... Then others told me HWA was a pedophile. I knew GTA was a sexual predator, but HWA wasn't he too old, apparently not. What a fiasco. <br /><br />Once you made a comment that someone who had left in the early 70's would have only suffered a stomach ache as compared to I can't remember what malady, but something much worse. Well I will end my rambling. I tell people I grew up in a religious cult, and most people have never heard of it. Funny how so many of those ministers I went to college with are still on stage like aging rock stars........ Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-91314376958252348252014-01-06T11:29:10.464-08:002014-01-06T11:29:10.464-08:00You told it the best you could, and it was easy to...You told it the best you could, and it was easy to understand for me. I didn't have the added problems of being in the direct ministry. It was therefore easier to turn my back and walk away. It still had its emotional traumas though.<br /><br />The longer you're "out" the less the connection. It's much easier today.Allen C. Dexterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06615706118359802452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-53869311508141562832014-01-06T10:14:39.893-08:002014-01-06T10:14:39.893-08:00Thanks for this, Dennis. You may or may not have t...Thanks for this, Dennis. You may or may not have told the story quite like this already, but if you have, I missed it. To me this is "THE story." I find myself telling my "THE story" repeatedly at different places at different times. The examples I choose to shine light upon the "red thread" may change, but the thread itself does not.<br /><br />"<i>Sometimes members would bring me the dissident mail they received to read ... I could not or would not handle it. Besides, there are lots of scriptures I can quote about gossip and falling away so I was safe.</i>"<br /><br />There's a difference between "believing" that something is true, and having that "belief" confirmed to, in fact, square with "reality." When I was young, it was almost instinctive that I knew I didn't have enough information to figure it out for myself, so, if I had a source that made me feel "safe" that everything I had been told was "reality" that was about all I could do. But you don't stay young. As you get older, you don't have to be able to put your finger on precisely what "reality" is to know (as opposed to merely "believing") that what your parents, and the entire hierarchy of your church has told you, could not possibly, under any circumstances, be that.<br /><br />Reality is not necessarily your friend, however. It is merely the gravity that holds everything together. It is impersonal, but you must come to terms with it. I suppose, if you are an "old soul" as they say, you are able to be friends with reality. But that doesn't mean that reality is friends with you. For even the most zen and accepting of folk, reality has the capacity to turn on them ruthlessly, testing what even they are prepared to accept with grace and ease.<br /><br />Either you come to terms with reality quickly, and the trajectory of your life is relatively smooth, without a lot of perturbations, or radical nonacceptance means that it takes you a long time to do so, greatly perturbing your trajectory, causing it to be traumatic and stressful. Franklin said there are only two inevitables, death and taxes. Like Ron Weinland, either you can pay your taxes on time, or else you can live in denial, and pay them later in a lump sum plus "penalties." But pay them you will, either with less, or else with more, trauma. And as far as death goes, even religion can't deny the event-horizon, although they can blow the inside of that unknowable region full od rainbows and lollipops. I am sure, as sure as sure can be, that in the incredibly, incredibly, incredibly unlikely event that some sort of consciousness can exist after death, that such experience would reveal HWA was full to the brim and overflowing with shit.<br /><br />Thank you for today's post. It was not rambling to me, but coherent and meaningful.Head Ushernoreply@blogger.com