tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post9050963258503500265..comments2024-03-28T17:29:12.818-07:00Comments on Banned by HWA! News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Church of God Movement: 1980/1981 Spanish Department Break InNO2HWAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02018654662518613623noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-81659514690530756912018-07-16T22:35:29.664-07:002018-07-16T22:35:29.664-07:0012:32
Your data for the 1975-1980 period is corre...12:32<br /><br />Your data for the 1975-1980 period is correct.<br /><br />1980-1985 perhaps the 2nd generation was at baptismal age.<br /><br />Huge financial increase during the Reagan, "televangelist heydays", boost in national pride leaving the vietnam trauma behind. Setting the stage for tkach senior adding perhaps another 30.000 members up to 155<br />000 feast attendees destroying my personal 144.000 theory.<br />Then the Jr team reduced it all to about 40.000 with perhaps (25.000 or less attendants?) in cgi today and 29.000? in the combined splinters<br /><br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-42061826888551414472018-07-16T13:58:41.758-07:002018-07-16T13:58:41.758-07:00The increase in membership after '75 may have ...The increase in membership after '75 may have been a result of the lifting of the divorce and re-marriage policy. Thus enabling a larger number of co-workers, such as my mother to attend.Mickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12447091547346560787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-17384589935142499672018-07-16T13:23:34.268-07:002018-07-16T13:23:34.268-07:00A lot of the more reasonable, humane, and moderate...A lot of the more reasonable, humane, and moderate ministers left in the revolt of ‘74. Presumably, they too had to go out and get jobs. I ran into one at Santa Anita Mall who was selling mens’ clothing in one of the better department stores. He could hardly get his work done that evening, because smiling ex-members kept walking up to him to shake his hand! Suddenly, he was the “Elvis” of ex-ministers!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-15206365053492746122018-07-16T13:02:45.813-07:002018-07-16T13:02:45.813-07:00A new wave of members started attending around 197...A new wave of members started attending around 1977. The explanation given in the church was that God held back these people until the church eased up on its tyranny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-62081851721805625652018-07-16T12:44:50.447-07:002018-07-16T12:44:50.447-07:00I remember the post 1980 period as "dust sett...I remember the post 1980 period as "dust settling down". Rapid increasing growth. Sinister figures like garner ted and rader finally sidelined. <br /><br />JR Ewing broadcast was pounding the Berlin wall. WCG money flow doubled, SEP camps tripled. It was "morning again in america". Tom Cruises Tom Cats protected the world as the final push to bring the Soviet Union down was being delivered. World Tomorrow broadcasting from Leningrad, Maos friends disacossiating themselves from rhe Soviet Union on conversations with Rader and HWA sending the Shanghai school children on an AICF sponsored diplomatic tour all over the USA ending in the White House signalling the Cold War was over as AICF broadcast the important Horowitz concert to the Soviet Union signalling a diplomatic message by the State Department that a new order was beginning.<br /><br />The World Tomorrow had started as we are now rapidly moving into technological singularity. <br /><br />Then HWA declared that his work was over and done and the Tkaches pulled the plug and were heavily rewarded for doing so.<br /><br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-18548520001975593402018-07-16T12:32:48.912-07:002018-07-16T12:32:48.912-07:00nck,
I too would like to see your proof that the ...nck,<br /><br />I too would like to see your proof that the church grew after 1975.<br /><br />In 1980 I had access to the computer records and was responsible for generating historical reports for the accounting and data processing departments (which were under the same manager at that time). From 1975 to 1980 U.S. church income was essentially flat after adjusting for inflation (which was in the double digits during most of the '70s).<br /><br />I cannot speak for what happened after 1980 or for outside the U.S. But I saw no evidence of real growth after that time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43416887557811795672018-07-16T10:03:52.488-07:002018-07-16T10:03:52.488-07:00I don't believe the church really grew after 1...I don't believe the church really grew after 1975 because many of us opted out at that time. However, we were retained on the rolls as "inactive members" where the computer was concerned. It was a device to hide the fact that membership was actually declining. Virtually my whole former department, the Personal Correspondence Department, had divorced ourselves from the organization, but you wouldn't know that from the official stats.Alllen Dexternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-35608447356623346062018-07-16T09:34:55.966-07:002018-07-16T09:34:55.966-07:00Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I g...Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I grew up in the WCG and left after the split in the 90’s. I spent a long time reevaluating my spiritual beliefs, but it has only been in recent years that I have come to understand the corruption that went on. I really hate that so much of my life was wasted on this despicable organization. It is only by people sharing their experiences, though, that we can see it for what it was - and unfortunately still is in various forms. Thank you for your bravery in putting yourself out there and subjecting yourself to ignorant and malicious comments. Your story is helpful to me and many others. <br />ShellyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-42805008650920308222018-07-16T08:41:23.848-07:002018-07-16T08:41:23.848-07:00nck said, "Guarantee for disappointment and a...nck said, "Guarantee for disappointment and a guarantuee for never understanding why the church doubled in size and scope AFTER 1975".<br /><br />MY COMMENT - OK nck, I'll take the bait. WHY...why did the church doubled in size and scope AFTER 1975? This after the turbulent 1970s with the failed 1972/1975 in prophecy, the sex and financial scandals, the heir apparent being thrown out of the Church, the Receiver taking control of the Church assets, and the start of the first splinter groups taking thousands from WCG to Associated Churches of God and Church of God International? <br /><br />RichardLake of Fire Church of Godnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12608502952299962752018-07-16T07:46:07.484-07:002018-07-16T07:46:07.484-07:00“Church doubled in size and scope AFTER 1975.”
Ac...“Church doubled in size and scope AFTER 1975.”<br /><br />Actually, I personally considered that to be not a positive thing, nck, but rather, the further spread of a disease. Once they battened down the hatches and reassumed autonomic control following the receivership evasion, I knew that HWA and Rader had become so twisted, so disingenuous, that they could survive nearly anything. You are not going to find evidence of a scared, incompetent HWA during the so-called “back on track” era. That time period was much like the union-busting era of Ford Motor Company. And, of course, as in the case of Ford, change was right around the corner.<br /><br />In retrospect, from today’s vantage point, it really doesn’t matter how big that church became. All that matters is that an unseen hand from somewhere divided and confused their tongue. Armstrongism today is boring and impotent, and HWA has been reduced to a bizarre footnote in 20th Century churchianity, a largely forgotten figure whose empire arose and faded comparatively quickly, never meeting expectations. <br /><br />Hooray!<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-27143244374093860682018-07-16T06:54:43.803-07:002018-07-16T06:54:43.803-07:00"The problem is that "prove all things&q..."The problem is that "prove all things" is a ongoing process."<br /><br /><br />exactly.<br /><br />we are continually making course corrections to our path as we learn. I think we'd choke if God gave it to us all at once.<br /><br />unfortunately, there are many with the idea that if they just do as the minister says they'll be ok....(and I think there are many in the ministry that encourage that mindset)...those are the folks that suffer the most, blown to and fro with every changing wind.<br /><br />and by the way, I'm not criticizing anyone, and I apologize to anyone that took it that way. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-57261121798357391972018-07-16T05:44:02.728-07:002018-07-16T05:44:02.728-07:00Thanks for your comment ABThanks for your comment ABAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-61736714164759158962018-07-16T01:39:57.945-07:002018-07-16T01:39:57.945-07:0011.27 PM
The problem is that "prove all thing...11.27 PM<br />The problem is that "prove all things" is a ongoing process. In the meanwhile, members, especially the newer ones, were dependent on Herb and his ministers. This power was abused, resulting in often severe harm to members. The faulty healing doctrine and 1975 being good examples. Telling these victims not to be "overly concerned with HWAs shortcomings and mis-teachings" is rubbing salt into their wounds.<br />It sounds like you are one of the unscathed members. It's easy to be a armchair critic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-48333956010150953292018-07-15T23:35:06.095-07:002018-07-15T23:35:06.095-07:0011:27
You said it well.
I think the most disgrun...11:27<br /><br />You said it well.<br /><br />I think the most disgruntled people are the ones who followed hwa (or their local pastor). Guarantee for disappointment and a guarantuee for never understanding why the church doubled in size and scope AFTER 1975. Impossible to understand for those focussed on men.<br /><br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-75919325284073698822018-07-15T23:27:39.110-07:002018-07-15T23:27:39.110-07:00interesting article.
it does not negate anything ...interesting article.<br /><br />it does not negate anything in the bible, however.<br /><br />it does show why we don't follow men, no matter how high up the ladder they are....even the Apostle Paul, an genuine Apostle, said to follow him AS he followed Christ...and he encouraged the membership to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good, ...he never said "take my word for it"....<br /><br />yep, HWA was a filthy sinner, just like the rest of us, and everyone that has ever lived.<br /><br />I sometimes wonder how many, if any, of the top leaders will be in the first resurrection....so many hold to tightly to HWA's position on things, errors and all, that they mislead the flock<br /><br />I heard a minister say in a sermon once, that he didn't really need a bible because he had HWA's writings to fall back on....I think he's in LCG now.<br /><br />those that dig into their bibles and prove all things aren't overly concerned with HWA's shortcomings and mis-teachings...Jesus is his judge. (and ours too)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-25524270147963791812018-07-15T22:44:45.936-07:002018-07-15T22:44:45.936-07:00Or Cargill that exactly according to the world tom...Or Cargill that exactly according to the world tomorrow scenario is feeding the world with soybeans while the Pantanal is "being made fruitfull".<br /><br />Wcg was the American empire corporatisms apologist.<br /><br />And most here are benefitting for its cover ups.<br /><br />Nck<br /><br />nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-23088621813766722342018-07-15T22:38:53.980-07:002018-07-15T22:38:53.980-07:00My comment are less about whitewashing hwa then an...My comment are less about whitewashing hwa then an expression of my disappointment there are no further revelations on the (spanish) work and the united fruit companies of guatamala or the us meat lobby that grinded the guatamakan rainforest to dust for cattle.<br /><br />The Spanish Work of "the Company"<br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-74535984054958647082018-07-15T22:16:08.884-07:002018-07-15T22:16:08.884-07:00As a benign dictatorship or theocracy, it was not ...As a benign dictatorship or theocracy, it was not in the nature of the wcg to replace its spiritual leader. <br /><br />Its virtually impossible to replace the pope, even if a good many of the conservative princes of the church would want the current "blasphemer" to leave. One "Rader" of that church was hanging on a bridge in Rome as million of banco vaticano were smuggled into switzerland. I'm at least not acting surprised about the workings and cover ups of dictatorships offering utopia and therefore prese nt unblemished criteria.<br /><br />I could name a thousand companies tnat would choose survival over "uncovering" their internal politics.<br /><br />In fact much of the billion dollar consulting business is based on "internal" distrust. The entire philosophy of wcg_hwa was based on the idealistic premise that if you build a campus based on the principles of eckbo, the modernist philosophy of mendenhall, teach uncompromising and make some connection with god, peoples hearts would change for the better. <br /><br />Unfortunately HWA never realized that the quality to draw people is a sure guarantee for a feeble moral chatacter. Since it is human nature to follow the sexual prowess and supposed safety provider instead of the nerdy engineer who is actually making the axes to kill the mammoth.<br /><br />And oh yes, even the axe makers would cover up if a hunter died because of malfunctioning axe.<br /><br />I have seen so many companies fail from the year 2000 - 2009. When on the alumni blog I spoke of the corruption at Enron, Quest, Andersen etc etc most at the blogs would answer me that the "board" was to decide on the bonusses. <br /><br />After 911 I heard calls to hand over most freedoms to the state "since we have nothing to hide".<br /><br />I see fear and blindness everywhere. Especially when (unsustainable) "growth" is expected.<br /><br />As if anyone on this blog cares or acts on knowledge who produces their chocolate or batteries.<br /><br />We want this to be covered up.<br /><br />Ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-12825742888868927372018-07-15T21:12:56.712-07:002018-07-15T21:12:56.712-07:00You definitely get it. Well said. You definitely get it. Well said. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-84488930916024493022018-07-15T20:25:43.836-07:002018-07-15T20:25:43.836-07:00Great talking to you Wes. Thanks for the response....Great talking to you Wes. Thanks for the response. We proved over an hour and twenty three minutes that birds not of a feather can flock just fine together! DennisCDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417850852638492246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-3775186448018452842018-07-15T18:41:03.893-07:002018-07-15T18:41:03.893-07:00This was not the only time I have read logs where ...This was not the only time I have read logs where a minister had to intervene in HWA's wrath and anger to save a poor soul who had to "take it". <br /><br />I think it's somewhere on the PT Site - where there was an Ambassador College Landscaper - a student, I think - who also encountered HWA's temper and wrath. HWA wanted to speak to a particular mananger and asked the young student to get him. The student, if I recall the story right, could not, HWA got extremely angry and ordered the student to get that manager, and Ellis LaRavia, I believe, had to run up and save the student, explaining to HWA that that manager was away and could not be reached. Without even an apology, HWA just turned and walked away. <br /><br />Makes me wonder if the ministers in the evangelist rank were constantly working on behalf of the staff and workers to ensure that the rage of HWA was deflected when need be. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-43071154647259015642018-07-15T18:36:04.650-07:002018-07-15T18:36:04.650-07:00I just cannot help but wonder HOW MUCH went on beh...I just cannot help but wonder HOW MUCH went on behind the scenes - that is, beyond the archives of the Ambassador Reports - that we really don't know of. The things that "never made it to press", so to speak. <br /><br />I can tell you, in the local church congregation I grew up in, there was never any shortage of drama. From "house cleanings" by the Local Pastor to internal member-to-member drama - to the ol' Rumor Mill and the Grapevine - there was always something that was seemingly going on. You just knew what wasn't said. I can't even imagine the stories that were held by Neff, McNair, McCollough, Meredith, Hoeh, Tkach, Albrecht, Feazell, and of course,Armstrong & Armstrong. If it was this chaotic with just ONE story, I can only guess it was so much worse on the Executive Fourth Floor on the Hall of Administration. <br /><br />I would guess that if you were ever called up to Floor Four by Ames or by McNair or Tkach, going up that elevator was probably the Longest Elevator Ride Ever. I wonder how many workers ever heard the conversations coming from the Executive Office with the Biggest Desk of Any CEO Ever. I'd even bet the unwritten rule on Floor Four was simply "Tread Carefully". <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-70446307406026833802018-07-15T18:14:55.962-07:002018-07-15T18:14:55.962-07:00Get on the web and read a little about Warren Jeff...Get on the web and read a little about Warren Jeffs of FLDS. See if you don't get an eerie feeling. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487906691943831671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-79615464791735806782018-07-15T17:33:02.612-07:002018-07-15T17:33:02.612-07:00This whole story is based on the false premise tha...This whole story is based on the false premise that God had/has anything to do with this organisation in the first place. Like God led someone to leave, God led someone to stay, to talk to HWA, to do whatever. I don't think God had anything to do with it, and when people finally woke up and started thinking for themselves, about time, finally they opened their eyes, they weren't led by God to leave or to join a new organisation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-226103369043606765.post-1015160094043287932018-07-15T16:48:22.044-07:002018-07-15T16:48:22.044-07:00This was an interesting experience revealed be Wes...This was an interesting experience revealed be Wes Wright and I am not surprised that things like this happened in WWCOG. What surprises me is that things like this was covered up by those who had leadership roles. It reveals that those in those leadership roles who kept them covered up had little or no understanding of how a true Christian believer should live. It is one thing to suspect this type of behavior but being knowledgeable of it participating in it makes a person as guilty as those promoting these activities.<br />I personally spent 42 years in WWCOG and there were many things that I questioned as being appropriate and some that suspected were wrong. If it was my responsibility to do something to correct the problem I would verify all facts and take the action that was needed. If it was not my responsibility I took it to God and let Him take care of it. I lay no claim on being Godlier than anyone else but those problems were solved.<br />Many have claimed to have their life damaged or destroyed by the all the flaws in HWA & WWCOG but those 42 years gave me many opportunities to help other church members and my personal family grew to maturity and beyond in the biblical principles.<br />When the changes were made after HWA died I recognized that the WWCOG no longer had anything to offer I withdrew as a member of the organization and turned to focusing on my relationship with God and the members of families that I have been and always will be a part of until the death of this body. I rejoice that God has given me a mental peace in a body that is well beyond the allotted fourscore years.<br />I would like to encourage all those who have suffered from HWA and WWCOG to not give up on a belief in God and the hope that Jesus promised those who come to Him. <br /> AB<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com