Happy 4th!

Gerald Flurry Destroying All CD's Sent To Congregations and Tells Members That Offerings Will Be Required On All 8 Days Of Feast

Gerald Flurry seems to be going into melt down mode.  Kind of like Davey pack is doing.  Six Pack knows that this idiotic rantings can cause the PCG great harm if this words make it out to the press. 

Six-Pack is recalling all sermon CD's and destroying them.  Once they are played in church they are to be immediately handed over to the Pastor who then makes sure it gets back to HQ.

Bob Thiel had this letter on his blog that he says was sent to him:

Did you know that Flurry made a announcement in The Church that no one could have  any children any more .As He said it’s time to go, any moment, and He wants all the people to tell  all of their familys… that are in some of what He calls “Off Shoots” He wants them all back..?

…a  CD  just was distributed in all Churches, of the [PCG] “of course.”.. They are to tell ALL , The family members and “all others” that left and in “THE OFF SHOOTS”.  “That it is time” for all to return to “The True Church”, as it’s time to go very soon now.. They are not allowed to have anymore children, if they do it’s possible they might be put out and unable to go to the Place of Saftey… This is what I heard,  one could never have the proof as He has all the CD’s  destroyed after hearing them..  [ Look on Exit and Support ].. for more details.. Flurry, forbids any “CD”S going out”.. If he finds some one tell anyone anything “There marked”…

I also hear that He told His congregation that they are expected to have “offerings” “every day” at The Feast.. INSTEAD OF THE FIRST AND LAST DAY.. Can’t you just imagine what a hard ship it would be, for people that have big familys, that can barely afford to go in the first place..  He has told every one on the out side.. That THE TEMPLE is mostly payed for and they are doing very well.. But in secret He is begging the members for more money saying the work is really down..  There are also mention of more building being built.. For what I wonder…?… He has only a few students there..  also TURGEN , is talking about buying Him a jet.. [no anouncement was made ] There just throwing around the idea just now..  If the end is near, why is He still building..?.. I thought MR. Armstrong said get the people ready., not get rid of them ..as He is doing. He will put you out for the slightest thing… …..He is putting no money into getting any work out..  He is only building on at His compound.. and putting it on the backs of those poor people that can barely make it now….With all Obama has done  no one can afford such luxury as Flurry expects…

PCG Trinidad: Members Drop to 19 While HQ Demands More Money

Gerald Flurry and crew have really done a number on the Trinidad congregation.  With their abusive minister Seebran wrecking havoc the members have been leaving.   Many are leaving over the constant demands by Flurry for  more money.  They don't understand how of they need more money that Flurry claims to have paid off Armstrong Auditorium.

Samuel Seebran is trying to convince remaining members that everything is working out according to "God's Plan." He is reassuring them that all is well and the focus is being placed on "God's House" being [supposedly] paid off and that new projects are on stream as the "Work" intensifies. (More projects means financial exploitation for existing members.) But some are questioning how "God's House" can be paid off because all the time HQ was stating that income was down and they were lagging behind in loan payments. [See June 4, 2013 PCG letters for more on this.] Was this gimmick used to solicit more money from members and lies were being used from the podium to deceive and extort more money to enrich themselves? There is no financial accountability and transparency in the PCG. Members have to trust and believe the ministry ("ministers cannot lie"). Members are also being told not to believe everything they hear and to stay away from the networks (i. e., ESN) that are against the PCG because "Satan is using them to attack and destroy the Church" and that members are "being tested." All this a cunning ploy to keep members ignorant and in the dark as Gerald Flurry's financial empire falls apart. --Resigned member (Trinidad)

One rumor floating around is that Wayne Turgeon is trying to solicit funds to by Six Pack his own jet.  Ever since Wayne bought his way into Flurry's inner circle he has been walking all over people in order to impress Flurry.  He has left a trail of destruction in his wake. With the world about to end and members told to stop having kids, they are still spending money like it grew out ion the back fields of the compound.   They are dropping between $30,000 to $100,000+ for each one of their concerts in their mini-me auditorium.  That is money that members struggle to send in as Flurry demands more and more from them.

If these dumb idiots think they are about to flee they had better start watching the news in Egypt and elsewhere.  No Arab government will allow a bunch of whacked-out pseudo-christians come barreling into Petra and take over it.

Living Church of God: You MUST Respect The Church. We Have The Power to Forgive Or Retain Your Sins

I find the intro to this to be kind of strange for a COG video.  At first I thought it was a spoof, but what they are doing is mocking Christians.  LCG knows all and the rest of Christianity are idiots and followers of Satan's "jesus"

I was just send this link for an LCG video sermon on why you MUST respect the church and that the ministry has the authority to speak on behalf of Jesus Christ concerning the forgiveness or retention of your sins.  Without the Church you cannot know God.  We need the church to tell us who the "true" Christ was.  The Christians of the world do not know anything about Christ. 

Retention?  Retention?  That word alone shows LCG is Biblically ignorant.

Over one hour of blabbering that could have been wrapped up in 20 minutes.

Dennis On: "I'm Just Joshin' Ya"

"Another theory refers to a man named Josh Tatum, who was accused of passing "Racketeer Nickels" in Boston. Mr. Tatum was unable to either hear or speak, so he never actually said that what looked like five-dollar gold pieces were really gold-plated nickels -- he just gave them to clerks and accepted whatever change was given him. No one was able to testify effectively against him, and he was allowed to go free. Since this happened (if it happened) in1883, about forty years after josh meaning 'banter' appeared, we can also discount this theory.

According to the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, the name Josh was regarded in mid-19th-century America as a typically rural name. A Josh was 'a country bumpkin' or 'a hick', a rustic who was rather slow and not too bright. Here's an 1863 quotation from Hearsill's 1491 Days: "We were 'gobbled up' and taken to the Arkansas Battallion H'd Q'rs ... Luther says that the only thing he regrets in the affair is to be arrested by 'Joshes'." Lacking evidence of any other source, it seems likely to me that josh meaning 'to make fun of' has its origin in this use of the proper name. Joshes, then, were the ones who were joshed, rather than the joshers."

Yahoo Answers

The tale may be apocryphal but the stories are appropriate with regards to the upcoming but now obvious claim by the Apostle Joshua C. Pack that he IS the fulfillment of the historical Joshua the High Priest, who along with the political leader and governor Zerubbabel in the sixth century BCE eventually shamed the people into rebuilding the Temple in Jerusalem after years of captivity.  Of course, this is ridiculous.  Anytime a man sees himself specifically spoken of in the Bible, it always ends in disaster because, of course, it is not literally true.  Such men do not need to congregations.  They need medications.

It is not my purpose here to quote the many assumptions, analogies, imaginings, twisted scriptures and loopy comments of the Apostle Pack.  You can pick out the ones you like here http://rcg.org/sep/news.html  as they are very public and very bold.  But in the final anal-ysis, the Apostle Pack is just "Joshin' the Brethren."  Detailed analogies based on ancient texts written for their own times and not projecting ahead thousands of years do not make truth.  I would challenge the Apostle Pack to practice "in a multitude of counsel there is safety," and bounce his prophetic meanderings off a few genuine theologians or Old Testament scholars.  I am sure they would be more than interested in hearing his interpretation of the meaning of the minor prophet Haggai's experience in rebuilding the Temple after an Israelite return form captivity in the 500's BCE.  I'm thinking the conversation would not last long and when these men returned to their own students would probably share their experience with their students about "I talked with this fundamentalist preacher over the weekend who told me he was Joshua the High Priest and the fulfillment of the mere type Joshua in the minor prophet Haggai.  Let's turn to Haggai for a minute."  

First of all let me get this said and out of the way.  Why do I take such personal exception to David Pack?  I've known him since he was in college.  I have worked around him in adjoining church areas and he was my parents and siblings pastor in Rochester, NY for a time.  My dad spent many hours with Dave visiting as a Local Elder.  We have our own family stories about Dave.  Aside from that, I have come to deeply resent the idea of religious men (not just Dave) who take titles to themselves and then use it to control people or convince them of things that ultimately and simply are not so.  I resent the taking of monies not earned by these types of self appointed ego driven types.  Commanding others to give based on fear, guilt and shame , as the Apostle Pack is very good at, is not earning one's living.  It is taking it from others and unearned.  The Apostle Paul pulled this on people in I Cor. 9 as well where he said something to the effect that if he supplied them spiritual things, what's the big deal if he reaped their physical things.  Please don't ever take any analogies between the Apostle Pack and the Apostle Paul, from me, as a compliment.  They both pulled the same stunts with people, had no intention of cooperating with others and either were in charge or they didn't play.  Bending the rules to suit them was also a stunt both were often wont to do.  In the end Paul had to eat crow on his grand views about prophecy and his place in it as will Dave.

We have witnessed the title taking tour of several lone, "I am an Apostle," "I am THAT Prophet," and "I am A Prophet" types since HWA was also christened an Apostle by Dr. Hermann Hoeh.  Big titles, in my experience, are for small men.  I recall once I was at a gathering in Manchester, Kentucky at a member home and I was talking with some fellow I didn't know.   I introduced myself and he said,  "I'm the Mayor of Manchester", but he said it in a way that it was clear I was supposed to do something or say something that was amazed by this fact.  I just said, "nice to meet you."  I was tempted to say, "Weren't you just on 60 minutes as a rather shady character," but I resisted.  60 Minutes ran a segment on Manchester, KY because it was a place where getting killed or disappearing was not all that uncommon.  I had a deer rifle with a really BIG scope on it put to my head there by a women that was pretty sure her husband was not going to be baptized by me anytime soon.  "Shoot him, not me," came to mind.  The story of my escape is awesome but I spare you :)

Another time in KY, the mayor of Somerset,Ky "bought" five cases of oranges from a church member but did not pay.  The member was nervous to deliver them so I did. It was obvious this small man, who had a striking resemblance to GTA, was expecting me to give him the five cases of oranges.  Bzzzzzzzzzzzz, thanks for playing now pay.  I sat there and made it equally obvious he owed for the oranges.  He got the hint and since he did not know me nor could figure me out, he paid.  I assume I would not get any good ol' boy favors from him should I need them in the future. Arrogant little pr.....

In some ways I feel sorry for Dave Pack and in other ways I am intrigued by his personality and claims.  He has not changed one bit since I knew him in his early 20's.  This is who he is and how he thinks.  Whether it be narcissism for which there is precious little successful treatment or possibility of change or something else, it is a dangerous path to go down when mixed with religious zealotry and ideas of special ness, being even spoken of in the Bible.  Those who sit in services hoping that these statements of special ness,  both for themselves and of their Apostle, are going to get hurt.  I have listened to more than one non-member mate talk to me about the damage that is being done to their children and member partner and everyone's relationship to each other.  The Apostle Dave is building up both a following and an anti-following who follow him.  It is no surprise to me that if you are uninvited to RCG or show up on the property without permission, getting the police called on you is pretty much a given.  You can't demand a member destroy the personal family resources and wealth along with retirements and such and not expect some backlash.  The Clarion Call sermon is still to me one of the most stupid, bullying and obscene sermons any minister, real or fake ever could have given.  I would love to see that quoted in the Akron Beacon Journal to balance the community smooze.

At any rate, The (also self appointed) David C. Pack is Joshin' everyone but it is really not funny.  It is a lie based on an analogy that has no reality in fact.  It also is going to lead to lots of heart ache, resentments, ruined lives and lessons once again learned about trusting religious leaders who lose sight of their own humanity and self.  While we may poke fun of Dave's statements, ideas and puff age , it is not really funny because of where it is going to end up.

We are all able now to look back at the legacy of the Armstrongs.  When we were caught up in it, and please understand, I believed in the WCG view of the Bible with all my heart until I didn't, you could not have driven us away.  Had anyone told me what I know myself because I have done the homework to reeducate myself, back then, I would have simply thought it was Satan endeavoring to get me off track.  I could not be here if I had been there is simply my own explanation of the whole experience.  I may have thought like a child, and those in the various one man driven splinters still do in my view, but experience will drive the child out of you if you allow it to.  I have never been sure the Apostle Paul actually wrote I Cor 13 because it is so unlike him in his other writings. But perhaps the man, seeing that all his bluster and egocentric rants and ideas were bullshit, woke up and realized what an ass he had been on many topics and how many people he had not shown love to, which was the greater goal than promoting failed prophecy.  Prophecy frankly is for fools.  Where has "prophecy" ever taken sincere members of most fundamentalist churches?  Into madness or skepticism I'd say.   

Recently, Gary has been running pictures of the tearing down of the physical campus to make room for more profitable ventures.  I can't say it is not emotional and not painful to see the pictures.  I got married in the Fine Arts Hall and "educated" in all things Bible in it.  It's demise and being hauled away was prophetic of both.  Had someone told me at 18 when I sat there listening to Roderick C. Meredith teach me the "Harmony" of the Gospels, how I was going to understand them later in life and all that was going to happen, well...I would not have believed it though one rose from the dead as they say. 

My experience with WCG reminds me of the Buddhist explanation for how we often experience life. 

When I was young, mountains were just mountains, rivers were just rivers and trees were just trees

But when I got older mountains were not just mountains, rivers were not just rivers and trees were not just trees

But now that I am old, mountains are just mountains, rivers are just rivers and trees are actually just trees.

I suppose if you don't get the meaning of this, I can't explain it to you.

So....The Apostle Joshua C. Pack is "Joshin'" everyone with  his newly adopted title and calling.  Somewhere along the line he either went from "Watcher" to "Evangelist" (although he may have skipped this step as I don't recall him calling himself this), to Apostle and now to Joshua the High Priest.  To me it sounds both terribly silly but also insane.  He is this to himself and I suppose he is this to those who endure the hour upon hour and line upon line of proof speaking and texting to get the mind to accept this, but it is still not true.  Dave Pack has woven a clever analogy taken from an obscure book that most Christians never heard of and making it mean what it never meant.  Ministers make scriptures, analogies and stories in the Bible mean what they never meant all the time.  Even the "Matthew" of the Gospels , is master at this with his 'thus it was fulfilled' passages about the birth of Jesus, in which he twists and manipulates the Old Testament to mean what it never meant to tell his story. He does this because he has no real clue how, when or where Jesus was born.  "Luke" of course never read "Matthew's" account so tells a completely different story.  Both are inaccurate and made up.  That is a theological fact and not at all hard to see if you take an honest look.  You know.."sit before the facts as a little child..." and all.

Those who get "Joshed" by this new rendition of Haggai's High Priest are going to get hurt.

Simply said, Dave Pack is not an Apostle in any reality (whatever Apostle means in our day and age),  unless sending yourself counts. Yes, even the Apostle Paul did this too so I guess one can claim that as the authoritative Biblical example.  It's a lousy example and thousands of men and women have used it to promote their own silly or dangerous agendas throughout history, but nevertheless, a common way of separating oneself form the pack...no pun intended.   The recent defecation of Dr. Robert Thiel, formerly of LCG, and selp appointment as a Prophet is equally as silly.  Dave Pack is not any real Joshua the High Priest.  That is his analogy gone haywire.  It is merely and analogy and we all know how analogy minded HWA and WCG could get to claim powers they did not have and perspectives they really should not have taught.  Being born on eagles wings and Aaron and Miriam contending with Moses come to mind as analogies pulled out of the hat when needed to inspire or warn.   Korah being told "well Korah, with ideas like that, really big things are opening up for you," also comes to mind.

Personality, I am nobody.  But I am not willing, with my background and lessons learned in WCG to give Dave Pack, or anyone else who makes great claims for themselves, a pass if they are going to be so public about it.   No one stood up to the Armstrongs when they claimed special things about themselves to stood up to those who made those claims for them.  I sat through many a Gerald Waterhouse spiel saying nothing when in my head it was a constant "like you can prove that," "that's the most stupid thing I have ever heard," or "this guy needs a woman."  The day came when I told him, finally, that when he visited the area, he caused more problems than he solved and I was no longer going to answer the questions and concerns he raised in the minds of the members.  I would simply refer them to him to answer.  He just looked at me like I was stepping out of line.  It was then I also asked what he was going to say when HWA died.  As I have said before his answer took me down another few notches towards giving up on WCG.  "I'll believe it after three days and three nights," was his answer.

I thought he was Joshin' me.............He wasn't and neither is Dave Pack which is equally as disturbing and does not bode well for the emotional, mental and spiritual health of those that allow such foolishness to go unchallenged. 

"In utopia.....The mastermind is driven by his own boundless conceit and delusional aspirations, which he self-identifies as a noble calling. He alone is uniquely qualified to carry out this mission. He is, in his own mind, a savior of mankind, if only man will bend to his own will. Such can be the addiction of power. It can be an irrationally egoistic and absurdly frivolous passion that engulfs even sensible people. In this, mastermind suffers from a psychosis of sorts and endeavors to substitute his own ambitions for the individual ambitions of millions of people.”

― Mark R. Levin

contact Dennis at   DennisCDiehl@aol.com