Monday, February 18, 2019

Dr Robert Kuhn interviews Sean Carroll on Atheism and the Universe


Early career[edit]

Kuhn first came to prominence in 1972 when "Why the Vast Difference between Animal Brain and Human Mind?" appeared in The Plain Truth magazine published by Ambassador College, an institution of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG). The WCG's Systematic Theology Project[6] was coordinated by Kuhn, but later banned by WCG Founder Herbert W. Armstrong. Kuhn severed his connection to the WCG and its affiliates, including the Ambassador International Cultural Foundation (classical music concerts, featuring musicians including Vladimir Horowitz and Luciano Pavarotti), which Kuhn had created and managed.



"Although if They Disrespect ME, They Disrespect God" and too..."I am the Elijah to Come"




….and may as well throw in, That Prophet



David C Pack
December 12, 1998

SAID.....

"I hope you'll remember it enough to quote it right back to me"

Note:  Can do...
 "I want to make a statement about...me...

 Note:  Now there's a rare topic...


"Now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now.."

Note: But since you did tell us in '98, it is time to repost  it again


"I am telling you  if I go off into strange ideas,  misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me."

Note: That's why I am reposting this


" I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying?"

Note: Evidently not...


"Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren?"

Note: Evidently not...

" Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And  I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me..."

Note: I am quoting it right back to you Dave. Is anybody listening there in RCG?


But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."


Note: I disagree....and yes you have



Dave Pack: I Am THAT Prophet of Deuteronomy 18


God is going to work through another man like he did Moses.  I believed it was Christ for 50 years, but...I was setting you up a couple weeks ago about who could speak and every last soul on earth would hear what he said, if they didn't do it, billions of people, they would be destroyed. Ripped out of mankind.  Here is who that prophet is.  There are NO OTHER POSSIBILITIES! He is Elijah the prophet (Me).


If they disrespect me, they disrespect God.

Sunday, February 17, 2019

David C Pack: More Absurd Claims "Proving" He Is Elijah


If you thought the video from the other day was totally absurd, wait till you hear more claims that Dave Pack makes about himself.  It is going to be a matter of weeks before he proclaims himself as a "christ."  That is about the only thing left for him to claim.

His new claims:


  • Attended college in the "Crown City" of Pasadena...apparently makes him "Kingly"
  • Born in 1948, the same year as Modern Israel
  • For the last 26 years lived near the city of Summit...which is 20 some miles from Akron, which is named after Ekron which is 20 some miles from Jerusalem. 
  • Lives in a city founded by Elijah Wadsworth...Which validates Packs claim as Elijah...WUT???
  • I have the name David and I am a descendant of King David
  • Lives in a State with the motto "With God all things are possible"




It's Funny How One Insect Can Damage So Much Grain!

The title of this post was borrowed from the lyrics of Elton John's Empty Garden (a reference to the senseless assassination of John Lennon). This line, nevertheless, seemed to me to precisely convey the very negative impact that one Herbert W Armstrong had on me and my family.

I hope that what follows will serve as a cautionary tale for anyone who might be interested in joining one of the many splinter groups that formed as a consequence of the disintegration of Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God (or any other group which claims to have THE TRUTH). It is also my hope that what follows will serve those who are currently involved in one of those splinter groups and be a comfort to others who have left the movement.

I was introduced to the Worldwide Church as a small child in the mid-1960's by my father. He listened to HWA and his son, Garner Ted, on a small transistor radio that rested on the headboard of his bed. My younger brother and I would lie across the bed beside him and listen along to the "World Tomorrow" broadcast. Nevertheless, as my father was a divorced man with two small children and still living with his parents, he felt that he was unworthy and/or unable to make the necessary commitment to God and "His Church."

My father, however, never lost his conviction that HWA had rediscovered "TRUE" Christianity, and that he and his son were the only folks preaching the "TRUE" Gospel message. Among the more important elements of their message were their teachings that Christians should observe the Jewish Sabbath, eschew the observance of "pagan" holidays (e.g. Christmas, Easter, etc.), follow the dietary rules of the Old Testament, interpret the Bible literally and reject anything that wasn't specifically stated in Scripture, understand that God was "reproducing" Himself, and that the English speaking peoples of the earth represented the modern descendants of Israel. And, despite his reluctance to formally join the group, my father believed and taught these "TRUTHS" to me and my brother.

As a teen, I began to study my father's belief system independently of him and in greater detail. I studied Armstrong's booklets and "Bible Correspondence Course" and eventually became convinced that my father had been right about Armstrong and his "TRUTHS." I began attending the Worldwide Church on Saturdays and refused to eat any "unclean" meats (pork, shellfish, etc.). I also stopped celebrating Christmas (which had been a very important family celebration prior to that). Thus, within a relatively short span of time, I had convinced Armstrong's ministry that I had swallowed their teachings hook, line and sinker and was consequently baptized at the tender age of seventeen.

Looking back on those events, I am amazed at how selfish, self-centered and bigoted I was. My poor grandparents adjusted to my new religion without protest. My grandmother stopped cooking with pork. My grandfather left the Christmas decorations in the attic and pretended not to mind the sudden disappearance of his favorite holiday. They also quickly accepted and adjusted to the fact that I would no longer do my chores on God's Sabbath (we were commanded to rest on that day) - though my grandfather was still working full-time and my grandmother had severe rheumatoid arthritis and numerous other health problems). My younger brother ceased to get Christmas gifts.

All of this was further complicated by the fact that I was a closeted homosexual desperately trying to deny the reality of who I was and to whom I was attracted. In Armstrongism, homosexuality was a wicked perversion - a willful choice to live a sinful life. Homosexuals were referred to from the pulpit as queers and sissies. Indeed, my own father had parroted this kind of language!

Needless to say, I certainly didn't want to disappoint God, break His commands or shame my father and grandparents with such behavior! Add to all of this the fact that HWA expected his followers to date within the church, and I was pretty much destined to be a very frustrated, unhappy and lonely young man.

Fate, however, intervened. After actively considering attending the church's private college (Ambassador College at their Pasadena, California headquarters), I made the decision to attend two public colleges. And, while attending one of them, I met a beautiful and intelligent young lady who was actually willing to talk to me and appeared to be interested in me! We began dating, and I began to imagine that I might be able to overcome the wickedness inside of me and have a "normal" life.

It wasn't long, however, until my conscience got the better of me. I was being a hypocrite. I was attending church and dating someone who wasn't a member! I confessed my sin to the ministry and was promptly disfellowshipped (a kind of excommunication).

I was terrified. The gates of hell yawned before me! I was on the outside of God's "ONE TRUE CHURCH." How could I survive being cut off from God and His people? I broke up with the young lady. She was bewildered, and I was a hot mess!

In the meantime, however, my father had remarried and joined the Church of God International (founded by Garner Ted after he was himself kicked out of his father's church). He wrote me and assured me that God had not abandoned me and told me that I should not lose hope. To make a long story short, I eventually reconciled with the girl and began attending my father's church.

Even so, my suppressed homosexuality did not magically disappear over the years that followed. Though I prayed about it constantly, averted my eyes and remained physically faithful to the splendid lady that I had married, my sexual orientation did not change. Hence, although we had two beautiful daughters together, the marriage eventually collapsed under the weight of my self-denial and awful secret.

To make matters worse, when I finally came out of the closet, my father revealed to me that he had always suspected that I was gay. Moreover, although I had been writing for church publications and speaking to their congregations for years, I was suddenly persona non grata, My father, who had by this time been a licensed minister of CGI for many years, not only supported the anti-gay sermons of his associates and friends, he also gave sermons along the same lines.

Thus, although my dad has assured me that he still loves me, he remains firmly convinced that the major components of Armstrong's teachings (including those against homosexuality) are THE TRUTH. As a consequence, my relationship with my father (once very close) has suffered tremendously.

And, even though I left the Worldwide Church in 1985, and Herbert Armstrong died less than a year later, the damage which he inflicted on me and my family is still being felt in February of 2019. Yes, it's funny how one insect can damage so much grain! 

By Miller Jones
Blog: God cannot be contained! Commentary on the endless possibilities of God