Tuesday, June 7, 2022

David C. Pack Admits RCG Is A Hazardous Work Environment

 



David C. Pack Admits RCG Is A Hazardous Work Environment

 

The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 372)

June 6, 2022

 

@ 44:51 …and I’m gonna say something to you and you’re just gonna have to take it for what it’s worth. The most vicious, evil wicked-hearted men I have ever dealt with, I’ve dealt within this church. Literally. As the age’s gone on, people are worse you we brought them here, we put’em in paradise. We give’em beautiful offices…the college, the the products that we we publish. Unbelievable. And they’re the most murderous, lying, thieving people, in many cases, that have come into our ministry. I didn’t think it was possible to get worse than Worldwide and Global proved to me it can. And I, “Whoa, that was that was unbelievable.” But the worst have been here.

 

@ 46:33 So it’s it’s it’s it’s a curious anomaly that you see the ministers who’re supposed to be teaching the truth abusing, lying, stealing, things that would just curl your hair ten times over if I told you. But the brethren: wonderful and sweet and kind and happy, evermore so. 

 

            Now the ministers we have at this point look to be as wonderful as any I’ve ever worked with. Now, I’m not talking about the ones we have here. But there are people that can speak lies in hypocrisy, so you never really know. 

 

            I’ve learned to sit in that room up there, we talk about doctrine and know that I might be sitting across from or next to a minister who’s gonna try to destroy this church within an hour. So he’s he’s able he’s able, literally, he’s able to feign obedience, alright. Talk about feigning obedience…Some of these guys are really really good. They’re utterly murderous, lying thieves and I know what’s gonna happen them when Christ comes, they’re gonna be cut asunder.

 

@ 51:23 “And no man can shut it.” [Revelation 3:8] Now, why do You say that to us? Now, I’ll tell you I you just do not understand our enemies, they want to murder the church. You don’t understand that. These are the these are deeply satanic men. They want to shut the door of this church so you can’t be fed and so we can’t reach anybody else.

 

@ 57:09 Now, the worst people today are the ones who left us. Not so much in the Splinters, they’re lukewarm and, you know, kinda floppy. They are what they are. There’re some bad bad people over there, too. But they’re not really plaguing us. It’s the people who come among us and you shower all this goodness on them and they just want you dead. And it’s a most amazing thing but Satan is the author of murder and lies.

 

@ 1:39:26 The worst possible people keep leaving and poisioning the well out there.

 

 

This message was delivered the day after David C. Pack’s Pentecost failure. That’s three dates set within a 30-day period. May 15. May 30. June 5. He still has time to roll out a quadruplet.

 

It’s quite an amazing thing to watch a human being stare perfect failure in the face and still absolutely KNOW he is right.

 

 

Bonus Flashback – September 11, 2020 – Part 266 @ 33:43


“I don’t see any possible way, none, we’ll talk about this at the end, no possible way without fighting and trashing and rejecting the scriptures, I’ma give you my opinion, then you can decide whether I’m the ruler Christ appointed, where this can happen after Trumpets. I see no way, none. And you’ll and you’ll be your own judge, because we all live by our own faith.”

 

 

 Marc Cebrian

 

 

Monday, June 6, 2022

Cancellation of Salvation in the COG

 

Archetypal Moses

A Bedouin from Sinai, ca. 1930 – a Hebrew descended from Joktan the son of Eber, 

the progenitor of the Hebews

Moses looked much more like this than Charlton Heston

 

 

The Theoretical Cancellation of Salvation 

in the Classical Armstrongist Model of the Law

By NeoDromos

The reason why people turn to Jesus is because through him they are offered salvation.  If that offer is not present or is impaired, then there is no reason to turn to Jesus.  If a belief system inadvertently nullifies the offer of salvation, there is a need to revisit the theology that underlies that belief system.  Because Jesus did, in fact, bring to us the Gospel of salvation so something is awry.  In this writing, I present the case that classical Armstrongism denies salvation to all comers in the way that it models the Law of Moses.  I do not believe that this was intentional.  I believe it is the inadvertent product of an incomplete soteriology.  Therefore, I have classed the denial as “theoretical” only.  I will refer to classical Armstrongism – the Armstrongism of documents written in the middle of the last century.   I do not know what modern denominations derived from the pre-1995 Worldwide Church of God believe on this topic.  I would hope that their soteriology is now much more mature. 

Acne and the Armstrongist Legal Model

“What are these statutes and laws? The Ten Commandments formed the basis of God’s Law given to his people.” – Herman L. Hoeh, from his article titled “Which Old Testament LAWS Should We Keep Today?,” 1971. 

The classical Armstrongist view is that the statutes and judgments of the OT are based on the Ten Commandments, that they existed before the Old Covenant so that the change from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant would not affect them.  They are still in force today and they magnify the Ten Commandments.  This means that if you transgress the statutes or judgments, you transgress the superordinate Ten Commandments from which they are derived.  Read carefully his section in the article cited above titled “Other Laws Based on the Ten Commandments.”

Let us consider the following case from Leviticus 13:45,

“And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.”

This law is contained in the same section of Leviticus that states the dietary laws.  Hoeh refers to these as binding “statutes and laws.”  So, for people who follow Hoeh’s reasoning, it is critically important to salvation to understand precisely, if possible, what this law means.  In the interpretation of this law, the preponderant point of obscurity is the term “leper.”  Leper is a translation of the Hebrew word tzara’at which does not refer to Hansen’s disease.  This is what the Jewish Study Bible (2nd Ed., Oxford University Press, p. 222, Notes) says about this term: 

“This has sometimes been translated as “leprosy” (or “leprous affection”), but the disease today called leprosy (Hansen’s disease) was not known in biblical times and the description given in the Bible is not consistent with it.”

If anything this term was broad scope.  It seemed to include natural and supernatural effects.  It had to do with a pathology that blemishes the surface of things and, principally, the human skin.  In modern times a broad class of common and uncommon skin eruptions has been identified with tzara’at.  But nobody knows, and certainly not the King James translators, what this pathology is.  So much for Biblical literalism.  So, it is likely that in an abundance of caution that this broad definition would arise:

“The Talmud maintains that Leviticus 13:1 et seq. refers generally to any disease that produces sores and eruptions on the skin (Sifra 60a).”  (Jewish Encyclopedia, Funk and Wagnalls, Volume 8, Page 10, 1904.)

This means that Leviticus 13 encompasses common acne as well as many other skin afflictions. 

A  Hypothetical Case in Point

Assume an Armstrongist minister, who is exemplary in following classical Armstrongist theology, has a teen-aged daughter with a little acne.  The Jewish Study Bible interprets the prescription in Leviticus 13:45-46 to mean that the teen should keep her hair in a disheveled state, clothes in disarray and should warn others by shouting “Unclean.”   Recall that Hoeh asserted that such laws were a part of God’s eternal moral law that pre-existed the Old Covenant.   Hoeh wrote in the section of his article titled “Other Laws Based on Ten Commandments”:

“Notice! Here again are the statues and laws of God existing before the old covenant.  As they existed before the old covenant, they could not be abolished when it ceased to exist.  The old covenant could not destroy what it did not bring into force.  The old covenant was merely an AGREEMENT to keep laws that were already in force.”

This statement by Hoeh assigns a striking gravitas to Leviticus 13:45-46 within Armstrongist theology although I doubt that Hoeh was thinking about tzara’at.  And although I have seen many people with skin afflictions in Armstrongist congregations, I have never known this law to be kept. 

The Pro Forma Cancellation of Salvation

This model unavoidably results in the cancellation of salvation.   I think that this was probably inadvertent.  Hoeh was avidly pursuing the hermeneutical integrity of the Sabbath, the holy days, dietary laws and tithing and shot salvation dead as an innocent bystander.  There are many laws in the Old Testament that are classed by Hoeh as God’s pre-existing, eternal, moral law that are disregarded or gratuitously modified by modern Armstrongism.  These laws are as much on the critical path to salvation as Sabbath observance is in the Armstrongist legal model. This means that under Armstrongist theology, there is a soteriological formula, it is just that nobody observes it and it is not taught as being a requirement and, hence, it does not result in salvation for anyone. 

What is lacking to make the Armstrongist view defensible is a Doctrine of Selectivity.  Why is the law concerning the Sabbath important to salvation but not the law concerning tzara’at? There must be a reason and it is certainly not found in the writing of Herman Hoeh.  Armstrongists argue themselves into the loss of salvation. Armstrongists make the keeping of the Law a requirement for salvation yet they do not keep it in its entirety. They observe it selectively and in a modern implementation (staying in a hotel rather than a brush arbor for the FoT, for example). And they have not asserted a well-exegeted Doctrine of Selectivity to underpin this viewpoint. Essentially, what they have done is issue a new rendition of the Law of Moses through the WCG Church Administration Department (CAD). So when you spar logically with them you must recognize that they are not talking about the Law of Moses, they are really talking about the Law of the CAD. And the CAD, further, is based on post-70 AD Rabbinic Judaism (sans Temple) and not the Law as observed in Second Temple Judaism which was based on the OT.

Summary Argument

 Paul, in contention with the Circumcision Party, stated, “For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.” If you are going to make keeping the Law of Moses an adjunct condition to the salvific work of Christ, you must keep all of the Law.  It is a unified body of legislation.  I would assert that classical Armstrongism and likely modern renditions of that theology do not provide a clear path to salvation.  And this is lost in the clamor of trying to prove that the Old Testament laws are still in force.   I would strongly advocate that, instead of a pre-occupation with predictive prophecy, Armstrongists should revisit the concept of salvation that is fundamental to any rendition of the Gospel and define a Biblically based soteriology that makes the good news, good news. 

Mark your Calendars! You won't be disappointed!!!!!

 


Remember this? 

This is why NO ONE believes the current liars masquerading as prophets in the 

Church of God


Submitted by a reader...

Sunday, June 5, 2022

Dave's Latest Pentecost Statement…The Math Is Perect! Unless Its Monday...

 


Come Monday morning the crap will hit the fan if Pentecost was not the day...

Listen to it here:


Watching and Waiting In Wadsworth, Ohio For The Return Of Christ


 

178 years ago one of the forefathers of Armstrongism whipped up a frenzy along with Samuel Snow in upstate New York that Jesus would return sometime between March 21, 1843 - March 21, 1844. Miller finally set the date of October 22, 1843. Like clockwork, Jesus did not return and his followers were disappointed. 

Tens of thousands of devoted followers solid their homes and business to await the coming of Christ. Many of them sat on their rooftops and surrounding hillsides trying to catch the first glimpse of Jesus returning. The press made a mockery of them for that:

 

October 22, 1843 was the date Miller predicted after he carefully dissected prophetic passages in the Holy Bible. In order to be saved from the eventual destruction of Earth, he ordered his followers to find higher ground and wait for a cosmic sign that would signal the coming of the lord and savior. 
 
In the days before the event, the Millerites gave away their material wealth, said their good-byes to loved ones, and gathered on top of hills, roofs and other higher grounds to await salvation from a world that was about to end. But, October 22 came and went… without incident. William Miller and the Advent of the Second Coming

Snow later went on to take Miller's calculations to set a precise date of October 22, 1844.


As usual, Christ failed to return then too. Tens of thousands of people were affected by this apocalyptic frenzy. Tens of thousands left his group. Some left the church altogether and some went on to form the Advent, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventists, and other groups that are in the family tree of the Church of God.

Reaction of Millerites to the Great Disappointment[21]
What Happened on October 22, 1844?Attitude toward ProphecyReactionNumbers of MilleritesCurrent groups
No Second Advent1844 date invalid
prophecy invalid
Abandoned their beliefsTens of thousandsMajority left Christianity
Minority rejoined former churches
No Second Advent1844 date invalid
prophecy valid
Jesus coming soon
Some set other dates
Many hundredsAdvent Christian Church,
Jehovah's Witnesses
Second Advent occurred – Spiritualized1844 date valid
prophecy valid
Short lived “holy flesh” movementHundredsJoined Shakers
Date not about Second Advent1844 date valid
This interpretation invalid
Cleansing of Sanctuary meant
Pre-Advent judgment
Second Advent still coming
DozensSeventh-day Adventist Church

As easy as it is to mock those deluded followers of Miller in the mid-1800's we are no better off today in 2022. Thanks to the ongoing epic failure rate of Church of God prophets down through the last 8 decades, hundreds of thousands of followers of Armstrongism have passed through the doors with many never setting foot in a church again or went on to form even more appalling splinter groups. (When the Worldwide Church of God was imploding in the late mid to late 1990's the church estimated that throughout its lifespan that over 500,000 people had passed through its doors. Many find that amount to be hard to believe, but if you include coworkers and contributors, that would swell the ranks.)

Sadly, COG leaders and many ministers never learned from Miller's mistakes nor from the false prophecies of hundreds of COG leaders down through the decades. This brings us to 2022 where we are witnessing modern-day "William Millers" make absurd prophecies that continue to fail every single day. 

In the Church of God movement in 2022 we have some of the most egregious liars ever imaginable: Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Bob Thiel, Ron Weinland, John Rittenbaugh, and Alton Billingsley. Each of these men claim God is speaking directly to them revealing in dreams and visions just how things will shortly be. Every single one of these men has been proven to be liars and yet a remnant few remain loyal to them.

Today, in Wadsworth Ohio, the devout are waiting in eager anticipation for Christ to return and usher in a glorious new kingdom where they will be transformed into gods and will be teachers of humanity in the truth of God. Like William Miller's followers, these people have sold their homes, and businesses, cashed in retirements and insurance policies, and have given the money to Dave for some kind of mighty push.

Come Monday morning, June 6, Dave will make a new proclamation and set yet another date. If he keeps to his word, which he never has, he will declare Pentecost 2023 as the next date and remain silent till then, but we all know Dave can't keep his mouth shut and wait that long. More sermons and special announcements will be made.

If these people genuinely followed the Christ they claim to then they would have no need to worry about dates and prophecies that Dave and other COG leaders espouse. Instead of resting securely in faith in Christ as millions of Christs do every single day, these remnant believers live lives of constant dread and fear over present situations. They so desperately need that kingdom to come to be proven right. While Christians also wait for a kingdom to be coming, many work today in the world to help bring it into fruition by doing good works, without expectation of reward, to bring a foretaste of what that heavingly banquet will be like.

The COG movement has isolated itself from those around them, creating an insular movement that looks inwardly at itself where goodness and all truth are perceived to be dwelling while all around them, even in the midst of trouble, goodness and truth preside.

It is my hope that after tonight that some will wake up in the Restored Church of God and leave and find true freedom, but sadly we know this will not be the case.