I have been watching and reading about the current and ongoing drama in the United Church of God. Many if not most of the ministers still involved on one side or the other are people I knew as kids thinking we had discovered the one final truth of the Bible and the organization that represented it. I guess we've all learned a lot since then.Some believe that if we just get back to what Herbert Armstrong taught, all will be well. Others, called progressives may realize that all the truth there is was not all the truth Herbert Armstrong had. Even the word "truth" is somewhat suspect as the vast majority, dare I say all COG ministers, including myself, were not well trained in the history of the Bible, its true origins, the politics involved and its rather errrant condition. I shake my head in wonder when I hear grown "theologians" base their views or examples on what any well trained and taught minister would know were mere mythologies of the day.
When a grown man, who claims to know his Bible and world history, uses the accounts in Genesis 1-11 as that which "really , really happened," it is rather discouraging. Such a man has no genuine credibility in what he understands as "truth." Don't get me wrong. There were genuine reasons for the transmission of the Adam and Eve story and the Fall. There was a genuine reason for the story of Cain and Able or for the flood mythologies, but to take them literally is laughable in the world of theological , archaelogical and scientific understanding.
For beginners I would ask any COG minister to lay out the simple order of the New Testament. If you begin with "Matthew...Mark..." Ehhhhht'..., thank you for playing. Sit down.
If you think the four Gospels were written by eyewitnesses to Jesus or that the names on the books are the real authors....ehhhhhht...please sit down.
If you think there is a harmony in the four Gospels, please sit down.
If you think Paul wrote after the Gospels and the literal Jesus came before the Cosmic Christ of Paul, please sit down.
If you believe the Jesus of the Gospels is the same Christ of Paul or the same Jesus of Revelation, please sit down.
If you think the birth narratives of Jesus match and are what really really happened, please sit down.
If you think all the books attributed to Paul were actually written by Paul, please sit down.
If you think Revelation is a book of prophecy for us today, please sit down.
If you think Peter and Paul were friends or that James was not refuting Paul's rambling in Romans, please sit down.
If you believe that Paul really studied under Gamaliel or knew how to think like a Pharisee, please sit down.
If you believe the Gospel accounts of the resurrection of Jesus are harmonious and reflect different ways of looking at the same alleged event, please sit down.
If you think Paul could not possibly have been struggling with grievous sins or shortcomings which forced him to conclude he could not obey and chose rather to rally around grace, grace grace, please sit down.
If you think Jesus said he was God in the flesh, please sit down.
If you believe the NT teaches the malarky taught by the new and improved WCG, please sit down.
If you believe that Jesus and atonement by execution is the only way or that without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins, please sit down.
If you understand that in the OT, simple "oh I'm sorry" to God was ok, give yourself ten points.
If you believe humans were made male and female, one of mud and one of rib, please sit down.
If you believe penguins, polar bears and kangaroos were on the Ark, please sit down.
If you haven't done the hard work in study or actual field experience as to human origins, paleontology and Cosmology, please sit down
Or at least shut up.....
If you only got ten points, resign and go to school before you declare to those under your supervision what they are supposed to be or do and not be or do.
We've come a long way baby...unless you are an under trained and over confident COG minister. With all due respect, you simply don't know what you are talking about. In the small world, yeah very small world of the COG splinters and slivers, you may seem to be somewhat, as Paul noted of Peter, James and John, but "I learned nothing from them..." as Paul also admitted. One only need examine the real politic behind the rivalries between Peter, James, John and Paul to understand this current distress is a very very old story.
There never was one true church of God in all of history. There is not one portrayed in the pages of your New Testament. The message of the Gospels and the Gospel Jesus is NOT the same message of the Apostle Paul.
So while you all fight over government...is there no end of that topic? While you feel you have to pick a side as to which uninformed organization and clergy to follow or very carefully sift through all the arguments and very carefully be absolutely you make the right God following choice, please remember this...
Pious conviction with marginal information is not your friend. If you would like a good explanation of what that means then please continue here...
Warm regards on these hot topics...
Dennis Diehl...formerly called "Mr." :)
Last Saturday, Dennis Luker said that the UCG "crisis is the result of sin." He went on to explain that it was [mostly] the sin of the ministers and the administration. Please sit down. It isn't sin. It's insanity.
ReplyDeleteThe core problem is that Herbert Armstrong started this mess with little more than an eighth grade education. He was delusional about his place in the world. He thought he was important. He thought he was doing great things.
Herbert Armstrong was an heretic who wanted to take over the Church of God Seventh Day. He was unqualified in every sense of the word, even if you believe that the CoG7 has anything to offer. He was miffed at being RIFfed. So he grabbed hold of British Israelism. He claimed it was the basis of all truth. Then he left in his heresy and never looked back.
British Israelism is a mental disorder. No one can embrace it without being nuts. It is not true. It is a complete lie. Yet it is at the core of everything Armstrongism.
So the UCG needs to go out of business. They are built on a fiction worse than anything anyone may or may not think they can find in the Bible. Scripture shouldn't even be an issue, since there's an easier way to destroy all of Armstrongism once and for all from the earth: Prove to the Armstrongists that British Israelism is crazy. Make it stick.
If you can do that, all of the sub cults of Armstrongism will blow away. British Israelism is the doctrine that glues them together.
Actually, British Israelism doesn't glue them together, it screws them together.
Dennis Diehl's commentary is a measured and reasoned set of observations.
ReplyDeleteDennis certainly slayed a great number of sacred cows, and quite a few dragons, with his entry.
A future addition to this topic, with an eye towards gnostic scripture, would prove equally enlightening.
I totally agree Douglas. Many one man shows start with a former something or other now Bible authority because they can read and cobble, cut and paste. Around here it's really true that many a Baptist Celeb minister is one because "I stopped drinking." I had to stop drinking after I left the ministry..ha. It took a good stiff drink to cope with the WCG drama.
ReplyDeleteNot a good idea by the way.
Anyway, sanctified ignorance is still ignorant. They fight over government etc but I have never heard one WCG/COG minister talk about real theology and anything but an inerrant Bible. They simply don't examine anything not easily explained with a booklet.
I have done much study and "homework" since going out of the ministry. I did a fair share when in it but it only lead to trouble.
It is a more credible change when a Bart Ehrman reverses their beliefs because of their credentials to begin with. It is no biggy when someone like myself does the same thing because of a perceived lack of such credentials. But Ehrman and myself have come to the same conclusions. He's just still making a living at it..ha.
It was funny. A few weeks ago I was watching his lecture on Bible errors and such and right in the middle of it I got an email from Bart. It was crazy.
Goober:
ReplyDeleteI lean towards the gnostic view as the more correct view and intent but ultimatly the one that lost out to literalism and the RCC.
The many books out now on the "lost gospels" are fascinating and more gnostic which is why they didn't make the cut.
Over time, the Christ of the Gnostics (Was Paul one?) gave way to the literalized Jesus of the Gospels.
I'm not even sure there was a Jesus at least not as portrayed. I'm not happy about that but it is what it is if so. I do know the Jesus of the Gospels would never recognize the Christ of Paul.