I have always been taken back by the seemingly total lack of Biblical questioning by my former ministerial friends in WCG or in the membership over all. It is amazing to me how little study into other ways of perceiving the Bible, it's history, it's construction and origins, its many contradictions real or imagined is done.In the COG groups, the one man show type can get up and declare the Bible "clearly" shows the goofball to be an Apostle, Priest, King or Witness, AND FEW IF ANY QUESTION THE ROAMING AROUND IN THE BIBLE THAT IT TOOK TO DRAW THAT CONCLUSION.
"Duh, boss. Whatever you say, huya huya...whatever you say."
When Dave Pack goes on and on qualifying for membership in On and On Anonymous, why can't someone tell the man he talks too much and sees way too much of himself in the scripture. Why can't someone say the sermons aren't always as amazing and never before understood as they are being led to believe. When he can't explain anything in less than two to four hours each week, where is the common sense of the audience? When the man says either, "And yes, I am an Apostle," or "Send it in," blah blah blah...who are the people who just do this? Are they defective of mind and common sense?
When Flurridians are told the Guru is "that prophet" or "God wants you to kiss your unconverted family goodbye and please no more talking to them," who are the nutcases that say, "ok, ok, whatever you say?" Have they all been lobotomized?
Evolutionary author Donald Prothero notes...
"Looking over the shoulders of the hundreds of hard working , dedicated, self sacrificing biologists who spend years enduring the harsh conditions in the field to observe evolution in action inspires admiration in us real scientists. This is in sharp contrast with the creationists who sit in their comfortable homes and write drivel about subjects they have never studied and do not understand." (Evolution-what the fossils say and why it matters. Page 113, Prothero)
This is also how ministers "do their hard work." They skip along as good Bible and booklet readers. Or as I have often noted, "piously convicted and marginally informed."
For as intelligent as GTA was, when he wrote about evolution as the authority on it for the Church, and why the Bible was right and science was wrong, he didn't know what he was talking about. When Herbert Armstrong droned on and on about the two trees or the word "Elohim" and what it meant, he didn't know what he was talking about theologically. When he said once in Bible study that dinosaurs were of Satan's world because they, like Satan, can't reproduce, he had no clue as to what he was talking about. The current issue of National Geographic had dino eggs on the cover.
When Gerald Flurry declares this or that is God's way, he doesn't now what he is talking about. When Dave Pack spins his sermons and mocks Plato, Socrates and the like, he doesn't know what he is talking about. When he dismisses Albert Einstein because he had "wild hair," he has really run out of ideas and does not know what he is talking about.
When Ron Weinland declares himself and his wife the Two Witnesses, well you know...it's just bullshit. When you see yourself spoken of in the scriptures by the prophets, it is not time to start a church. It is time to get some help. I ask why Ron never studies what else the Book of Revelation might be, who really wrote it and to whom for whom about whom? Of course, if he did or if any of the COG ministers read the other issues raised by that book, it might require taking a lot of fancy literature off the shelves and throwing them into the shredder.
But back to the original question. Why do COG types and really most Evangelical Christian ministers or members lack the critical thinking skills that would provoke them to ask questions about how we really got the Bible, who really wrote it and why? Those few who do have good critical thinking skills usually end up teaching them but not at church, disfellowshipped, excommunicated, marked and otherwise marginalized. God may love a cheerful giver but He is not much for a clear thinker evidently.
When debating Art Mokarow over the issue of creationism vs evolution, his "Oxford trained" side kick on stage blurted out when I was recommending Evolution--What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters, "I have that book!" I was so tempted to reply, "Well I suggest you actually read it." However, I restrained myself. Many have a Bible but few ask much about how it got to be. The non-Sunday School answer can be pretty darn challenging to one's faith. Perhaps that is the total reason right there.
He told me I was too dogmatic about the problems in the Bible and too specific, whatever that meant. I asked him if he was the author of "God's Puzzle Solved?" He said yes of course and i noted the words "Puzzle" and "Solved" are pretty specific and dogmatic. He said that's not what he meant. Uh huh.
So, let's try this. A couple of years ago I wrote a series of articles entitled, "Questions Your Pastor Will Hate." They can be found here:
Now I admit the form was a bit cheeky at times in challenging us to look outside the box or at least how to even notice the Bible has contradictions, but I was processing my own "why was I not taught this?" experience.
Art Mokarow assured me he had asked himself every one of those questions and that he was able to easily answer them to his satisfaction. Good, I'm glad. He had to say that. It's like the Pope forgiving the guy who shot him. He has to forgive him!!!! He's the Pope. He's a professional forgiver! In the same way, if one is going to say the Bible is without mistakes or contradictions, one has to get a bit defensive at times, circle the wagons and ultimately feel sorry for the poor slob who even thinks to ask the questions.
So. Do you even know how to ask questions about the Bible, its purpose, its real authorship, its politics, its errors (real or imagined) its intent? If you know how to ask the question or what the question even is, why don't you? Are you going to let others get away with telling you there are no questions or that questions are suspect around here?
Enjoy the questions. You may or may not like them, but they are oft asked questions, they are not original to me and at least may help one ask enough questions when needed to maybe save them from believing just one too many made up answers that, in fact, are not so.
I think it matters to ask questions when in religion, there can be so much at stake for the questioner.
DenniscDiehl@aol.com
DenniscDiehl@aol.com
The reason critical thinking is not practiced, not just in the COG's but any religion, is because to wholly believe in the existence of something (Jehovah, Allah, the Amorphous Being of enlightened believers, etc) for which you have not one shred of evidence requires the suspension of critical thinking. Critical thinking is a danger to belief itself.
ReplyDeletePaul Ray
Exactly right and to admit the need to rethink a theological belief that one holds dear is to rekindle the anxiety that our belief held at bay over our fear of death. It's why people hang on so tightly to things that in other circumstances would never be held on to.
ReplyDeleteAnd the number one question I'd like to ask any minister, but especially the paid Armstrongist ones:
ReplyDeleteWhere in the Bible does it say we tithe on wages?
In fact, isn't true that when Scripture mentions wages, tithes are NEVER mentioned in association?
that cant be your number ONE Bible question in your whole life can it??? :)
ReplyDeleteAround here, for every God loves a cheerful giver you hear 100 tithe comments by the Baptist Boys on the radio. No one cares what tithe used to be. Its bucks today.
When I was a student at AC Pasadena and then for my fews years after that in the wcg as an employee, I had lots of questions I never asked or discussed with anyone - especially not with a minister or anyone "in authority" because it was clear to me that to do so would lead immediately or ultimately to my dismissal from my job, possible expulsion from the church and to discord with my wcg wife. So, I just sat in my chair in church or in class, listening to ridiculous statements from the pulpit or the teacher all the while shouting "Bull****" in my mind. That, of course, lead to some serious mental and emotional problems - some of which still erupt at inconvenient times today. I am ashamed to say that I could not bring myself to leave but was relieved when I was terminated. Always an analytical person, my brain never stopped working during my time in wcg - I just suppressed it to my own detriment.
ReplyDeleteGlenn Parker
The wage tithing question absolutely is the one question I'd like to ask because that's the one the Pastors will most hate to hear.
ReplyDeletePerhaps I was wrong that the reason for the post.
Still, you can be sure that they absolutely will HATE the question.
Glenn, we all did it and while I hate to keep going back to the source, the New Testament itself, the fact is we have NO record of any disagreements of the members with the ministry or Apostles.
ReplyDeletePaul bashes Peter for being "Jewish" and Peter leaves the table because Paul is obviously not abiding by the Acts 15 rules the apostles made on meats offered to idols. Paul was out of compliance and bragged about it in I Corinthians.
I used to just put things out of my mind and pastor the local church. I just hoped it would clear up itself. I hoped when HWA finally did die, we'd get more balance...ha, oops.
In the NT the members that do come on the scene are used as bad examples to the others. Ananias and Sapphira come to mind, but that really is a joke about Peter who knocks off two people who said they'd do one thing, give all, and did another, held back. This coming from a man Paul hated, who also said he'd do one thing, never leave Jesus, and did another, denied him. (Luke was Paul's apologist in Acts) The audience would have picked up on the "don't follow Peter" joke.
I make no excuse for my depression being rooted in denial and anger that was just too costly to express at the time. Ministers get bashed for not acting differently when confused than the average member who had a lot less to lose and would have to face the fact that we wasted (or not) our time thinking we were learning not just what the Bible said, but what it meant.
As far as I can tell. I learned well what it said. I learned nothing of what it really meant nor where it really came from or why.
amen Dennis