One of the uber-right wing COG Yahoo sites had this question asked today by a man about his wife:
I grew up in the WWCG, and drifted off some during the apostasy, but later
started to attend with Living. With the principals in the Bible about husband
being the head of the wife, what should a Christian husband do when the wife
doesn't submit to his leadership? We were both baptized, but I don't know
if she was really converted, she didn't really experience a "first love"
of the truth. If she is lukewarm about the Sabbath for example, I can't
force my way on her, she has to be accountable to God herself, right?
What would you tell the man?
"God's ministers" had the final word and authority on everything and anything. Therefore, anything I would tell the man is completely irrelevant and without merit.
ReplyDeleteGod's minister at the Baltimore, Md. Worldwide Church of God, Mr. Vince Panella, answered your question many years ago.
"What do you do with a rebellious wife?" asked Panella from the pulpit during a Sabbath Services sermon before 500+ brethren in 1970.
"You rape her!"
Richard
I'd tell the man that the only reason a wife is to be submissive to a husband is because the NT and Paul said to be. Paul basis his perspectives on the fall of man via Eve, which if it did not really happen in space and time, as it didn't, is a moot point. You can't base real demands of people on mythological stories. z
ReplyDeleteIn reality, men are no more superior to a woman than a kangaroo is to a platypus. Men actually and contrary to Paul, do come from women and the template for all males is female. Just have a look at your nipples guys. You are an under developed female with more testosterone.
Why people take the advice and observations about marriage, family, kids, childrearing, relationships, men, women, and sex seriously from all single New Testament men is beyond me.
Paul could only think of one reason to marry...to avoid fornication. He prefered men to remain single like him (and I think I have the spirit of God) obviously knowing nothing about Jesus own advice to leave mom and dad. All the men in the NT who gave all the advice were single men. No thanks. I doubt they understood women and perhaps feared them.
Paul was hardly the example of manly truth.
I'd tell the man to man up and let her be herself and not worry about his "role" or hers in all this.
A first sabbath in a new church a woman approached me and asked if women had to ask their husbands if they had any Bible questions or could she ask me personally.
ReplyDeleteI knew the previous ministers answer to this and felt I was being tested a bit by this woman.
Then said, "well what if he's an idiot and doesn't know anything about the Bible?" I said, then ask me if you wish. (Not that my answer was the answer either mind you.)
She said.."I like you..." ha
Another told me her husband announced one day that he was King of the House and shew as nothing. She said, "well then you are king of nothing.'
If a Church of God man has a non-submissive wife, I would introduce him to Loma Armstrong, Elaine Tkach, Shirley Pack, Barbara Flurry, Margie Meredith, Sheryl Meredith, LeeAnn Luker, and many other COG leaders' wives who are/were either quite unsubmissive or were in point of fact pretty much running their husbands' ministries.
ReplyDeleteWhat would you tell the man?
ReplyDeleteWell, of those four wives in the picture with him, I'll hazard a guess that his "problem wife" might be Melissa Etheridge.
I wouldn't tell him anything....except maybe that Melissa's a lesbian.
she has to be accountable to God herself, right?
Ooooh.
Norm
Dennis said..."Another told me her husband announced one day that he was King of the House and shew as nothing. She said, "well then you are king of nothing.'"
ReplyDeleteMY COMMENT: I thought this was an old Jackie Gleason line from a "Honeymooners" episode.
I remember a man who was just like this guy. Stupid as hell! His smart and pretty wife ended up leaving him, and she also left the cult. He remarried a dud who was a little mouse. Of course that's what he was looking for.
There are "principals" in the Bible? First, the guy can't spell. Second, he views coming out of false doctrine as "apostasy." Third, being with a WCG offshoot, he tends toward authoritarianism. Fourth, what about being "heirs together." Don't see much of an answer for the situation.
ReplyDelete"Submission" has no place in a partnership.
ReplyDeleteEvery relationship has needs that have to be met and equal partners can usually deteermine those needs and voluntarily determine to meet them.
When I clean up the kitchen for my napping wife, which I did yesterday, I don't feel less of a man doing "woman's work." I feel like a loving mate giving my share in a loving relationship. She feels the same way about things she does for me.
""Submission" has no place in a partnership."
ReplyDeleteUnless it's consensual and not based on dogma, but rather on the actual needs of the couple in the relationship. There really are "submissives" and "dominants", and these puerile male-dom cults don't typically understand the psychosexual reality they're playing with in their imaginary "God-given roles" scheme. Certainly proponents of Armstrongism don't, as BDSM was not covered in The Missing Dimension in Sex. That would have made it interesting reading at least.