Prophet Thiel is disturbed that a woman has been elected as Prime Minister in Denmark. Of course, The Prophet intermediately has to tie into an Armstrongite prophecy prediction. Those damn women ruling over the House of Israel yet again! When will the wimpy men stand up and be real HE MEN like Rod Meredith - God's end-time prophet, Elijah and Apostle???????
Helle Thorning-Schmidt
After the elections in Denmark yesterday, Helle Thorning-Schmidt is set to become the first female Prime Minister there:
Denmark’s Social Democratic leader Helle Thorning-Schmidt, 44, is set to become the country’s first female prime minister, after her center-left bloc narrowly won general elections, ending a decade of center-right rule.
Since those of us in groups like the Living Church of God do not vote in these elections, why am I mentioning the election of a woman as prime minister?
Because I believe that it will partially fulfill a prophecy to the children of Israel in Isaiah 3:12:
Of course, women are influential in all the Israelite-descended nations. And now the highest elected office in Denmark is expected to be held by a woman.As for My people, children are their oppressors, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths…
Back in the old Worldwide Church of God, some speculated that Denmark would leave the EU and not be part of the European Beast power. I am not particularly sure on that one way or the other, but do consider that it is a possibility (the viper and serpent comments suggest that it is different than others who might unify). Yet, the fact that the tribe of Dan is the only tribe not listed amongst the 144,000 in Revelation 7:4-8 makes me lean the other way at this instant–yet the fact that Denmark has not yet adopted the Euro (though its currency is directly linked to it) suggests a certain independence on the outskirts of the EU.
Catholic prophecy tends to teach that the Antichrist will come from the tribe of Dan (but it also teaches other possibilities there), but I tend to doubt that the Antichrist will be a Danite.
The Prophet Thiel wrote: "Because I believe that it will partially fulfill a prophecy to the children of Israel in Isaiah 3:12:
ReplyDeleteAs for My people, children are their oppressors, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths…"
MY COMMENT - Actually, I was shocked when I received a very different translation of the Isaiah 3:12 quote from my mother before she passed away. My mother was a long time WCG/LCG member.
She said that it can be translated to read "Women CAN rule over them". I have no idea where she got that translation or interpretation, but I can tell you she was a hard line strict HWA/WCG & LCG supporter. So, she didn't get it from "the party line" of the WCG/LCG traditional interpretation.
By the way, when my mother passed away, I thought about sending the idiot Meredith a letter informing him that his revenue stream would be going down and not to expect any more money from her. When I went through her records, the amount of money absconded from my mother boggles my mind. Meredith should have a plague dedicated to the memory of my mother on a wall in his Charlotte headquarters somewhere IMHO.
Richard
Robert, Robert, As a former pastor in WCG we both know that context was never highly valued.
ReplyDeleteContext, context, context...
1. The 'lord' is about to take all the leadership from Israel. Also out goes the food, water , supply and support as it says.
2. hero, warrior,judge, prophet, soothsayer, judge, elder, captains of 50, elders, , men of rank, officials, clever enchanter.
ALL the MEN
3. Only Children and women will be left to rule the city after the upcoming deportations or slaughter.
If as Richard said, it can mean, "woman can.." it fits the context even better. They can because they are the only ones left.
4. Vs 4 shows that a brother will seize another brother who has a coat, meaning you are not desolate, you can lead! Of course he was told he could rule over "this heap of ruins" i.e. JERUSALEM.
You are wrong to use this scripture to advance the COG inaccurate and badly researched idea that the end comes when you see women ruling over us.
We sit on the edge of oblivion, NOT BECAUSE OF THE RULE OF WOMEN.
It is the MEN since patriarcy squashed matriarchy it's been all down hill. Men can't and haven't ruled well in the Churches of God.
Women narcissists rise to the top on the backs of others as well as men, but perhaps women would send a kinder gentler message. I do realize these power women hardly have much compassionate traits left either in our day.
No matter what you think Robert, and no matter what the NT says, women DO NOT COME FROM MEN. Adam was not the first man on earth and the fault of everything is not the woman. All theological propaganda written by competing priests which i know you don't understand. Men COME FROM WOMEN. It's why you have nipples. Without testosterone appropriately arriving the fourth month of your conception, you'd be a woman misleading the Church of God with your misunderstandings and memes. amen.
Isaiah 3 is not a prophecy. It is history.
PS. No one complained about Deborah who rose to lead at a time when the men were faultering along with the whole nation.
ReplyDeleteDeborah lived in a period of Israel’s history that was tragic. Spirituality was at a low point. The standard of behavior was anarchy. During her time the nation was oppressed by Canaanite rulers (4:1-3). “Oppressed” is the same word used to describe Israeli bondage in Egypt (Ex 3:9). The oppression of Israel was directly associated with the spiritual decay that had corrupted that nation. Consider some of the causes for Israel’s spiritual decline.
"Deborah is one of the heroic women of history. She was one of the most talented women of the Bible – a wife, mother, prophetess, judge, poetess, singer, and political leader. Her life is a wonderful illustration of the power that womanhood has to influence society for good. The great influence that Deborah possessed is evident in the fact that all Israel came to her for counsel and judgment."
Judges 4-5 will remind you of how this amazing female leader in Israel saved the male ass from extinction and the nation from collapse.
In Israel it was not well liked that woman and the young ruled over anything. However, the reality is that when push came to shove, they were begged to rule. That is the context of Isaiah 3. and the example of Deborah in similar times.
And darn that Ruth character who saved the entire nation from extinction according to the story. A moabite to boot, Ruth was said by a man to have arrived at a time for such as this.
CONTEXT< CONTEXT CONTEXT Robert...
You're good, Dennis! Don't forget about Esther. She too was an amazing leader. She saved their sorry asses.
ReplyDeleteYes, but for every Esther, there seems to be a Jezebell, Atholiah and Sapphira.
ReplyDeleteNo wait.
For two out of the three above, they did it for their man.
Sorry. Sorry.
You're right Steve, my goof. Ruth got Haman hung on his own gallows and Esther got to the King to save the nation.
ReplyDeleteI bet Thiel believes "here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept..." IS the ONLY way to study the sacred word.
Actually, nuther WCG blunder in context and meaning....
Douglas, The Jezebel of the OT is the classic result of Theological Slut Slamming. Powerful women confused Israelites.
ReplyDeleteIn the account of her competition with Elijah over whose alter and God would burst into flames, we find she had BOTH 450 male priests on scene and the oft never mentioned (I Kings 18:19) 450 female priestesses of Asherah. While it says priests, the culture would lend itself to the priests of Baal being male and those of Asherah being female. The female priestesses at at Jezebel's table.
This was a contest between YHVH and Baal and the prize was the women of course. Two gods fighting over the female principle and literally female priestesses.
Notice, the priestesses of Jezebel were not killed. Only the 450 male priests were. Remeber Israelite men in war got to keep the women "to do whatever they wished," with.
So since this is a Hebrew cult book giving a significant pedigree to an insignificant people, YHVH won (we are told but how do we know what happened in fact if it did happen?) YHVH won the priestesses and they disappear from his-story.
Jezebel was probably in fact a powerful and sincere follower of Asherah and the feminine principle etc. Both her parents were priests and priestess in the faith of her youth. No different than "growing up in the church."
The alledged winners write the story. I imagine in real life we'd like Jezebel and appreciate her training, intellect and will.
All scary things to Bible guys.
Bob Thiel wrote: "...Because I believe that it will partially fulfill a prophecy to the children of Israel in Isaiah 3:12:
ReplyDeleteAs for My people, children are their oppressors, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths… Of course, women are influential in all the Israelite-descended nations. And now the highest elected office in Denmark is expected to be held by a woman..."
As some of the comments have said, paraphrasing them, Bob Thiel with his "here a little, there a little" pick and choose, a la carte, use of the scriptures in God's Word is ridiculous.
As Dennis wrote: "...Context, context, context..."
Where will that get Bob Thiel with his "junk food" speculations? Isaiah tells us:
In context, Isaiah 28:13 says:
"But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."
That's right! Bob Thiel will follow the living group's leader, go, fall backward and be broken, snared and taken. How will we know that? Well, time will tell.
Bob, living group, etc. are even still looking for them 10 kings to show up on the world scene any day now, but they're not scheduled until later after Satan is loosed from that bottomless pit.
Bob Thiel also talks about the beast and antichrist almost as though they are the same and will appear at the same time; however, the antichrist also will appear on the other side of the Mickey Mouse Millennius...after Satan is loosed from that pit.
It's all about that context, context thingy again!!!
But, time will tell. We may be patient to wait and see....
John
DennisCDiehl said...
ReplyDelete"You're right Steve, my goof. Ruth got Haman hung on his own gallows and Esther got to the King to save the nation."
MY COMMENT: Huh? I don't think Ruth had anything to do with Haman. Wasn't he in the "Esther" scenario? Anyway, I think it's going to be hilarious to watch all the COGers scramble around if Michele Bachman or Hillary Cinton get elected as president of "Israel". All the sons of hell will start their prophesying again about how we're in the time of the end. I think they did that when Obama got elected.
Yep, my mistake Steve. I got that crazy nice Ruth mixed up with that hottie Esther..ha.
ReplyDeleteWhat Jezebel did was to support her lily livered husband because he just wasn't up to the job. She was sort of the Loma Armstrong of her time. Too bad about the vineyard and subsequent death, but you have to admit she stood by her man. Well, she stood by her male husband. There might have been a difference.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, Robert Thiel. He's not an apostle. He's not much of a prophet. Just who is he, anyway?
All those erroneous assumptions, cross-referenced with crazy idiotic illogical associations with opinions hardly supported by Scripture in an heretical, wild-eyed fanatic sort of fashion, assuming facts not in evidence, incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial.
To be clear, the nation of which he is whining is Gentile. The Y DNA does not come from a root common to the Jews and Arabs. By this time, he knows this, so I assume that he is either terribly mentally ill with psychosis or he is an anti-social personality disorder person. Either way, it's amazing that anyone would believe a word he says or be at all influenced by a word that he says in his support of his favorite cult with it's false prophet (50+ years and counting).
But, you know, people are biased toward those who perceived as attractive and charismatic, no matter how delusional they are and what lying scoundrels they might be.
"Another Woman Ruling Over an Israelite Nation": Utterly scientifically proveably idiotic rubbish.
DNA has also proved the ramblings in the Book of Mormon about Indians being Israelites etc bunk.
ReplyDeleteThat was a 19th Century view when the Moundbuilders were discovered.
I imagine the Mormons, like Ron Weinland will have to say, "It's spiiiirituaal! I never said it was literally true. YOU People need to do your homework and listen....it's spiiiiiiiritual. The offering today...."
PS I don't think one can draw any real conclusions about what Bible character was what..a weenie or a leader. The book is written by the winners and those with agendas to promote. Of course all in opposition to them will be portrayed as the writer wishes.
ReplyDeleteWe can't really know who did or said what really. We know that Bible speeches have been made up in the Greek style of writing what the author imagines the character to have said in such a place or time. The long dialogues of Jesus in John not found anywhere else reflect this. Or perhaps some disciple had a recorder..yeah, that's it. And..it automatically came on to record Jesus words in the Garden when he was alone and they were all sleeping. Great gadget!
One more little thing... it's so small... it probably shouldn't be mentioned since it's so insignificant, but...
ReplyDeleteScripture -- New Testament at that! -- and from the Apostle Paul, no less (well, and Jesus had a few things to say about it too) -- we are to respect our leaders.
But here we are.
Robert Theil, slandering and libeling a ruler of what he calls an "Israelite Nation" (which isn't true, but even if it isn't): This is a double violation of Scripture. Not only does he bad mouth a ruler in complete defiance of what "God" says, but it is a ruler of one of "God's Nations", Isreal!
Robert Thiel is condemned by Scripture and his own words, as we, ourselves are witnesses this day.
Therefore, judgment is rendered against him according to the precepts of Biblical Law and he is to be disfellowshipped and marked to be in the bonds of Satan until he repent.
So there.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIsaiah 3:12
ReplyDelete"
12 Youths oppress my people,
women rule over them.
My people, your guides lead you astray;
they turn you from the path."
The original actually said..
12 Congress and Homeland Security oppress my people. Priests want to rule over them. My people, the banksters are screwing you and turn you from the path."
No really, I found the manuscripts in a jar in my garden...really..
:)
M.T.Jars
These people get too carried away in symbolism to recognize the fact that in civilized nations, there are so many checks and balances that whomever the elected leader happens to be is largely just a figurehead who sets the tone for the governance. So, you end up with an apple and oranges "fulfillment" to prophecy, which has been one of Armstrongism's problems all along.
ReplyDeletePlus, when we discuss dominant-submissive relationships, the submissive is the one who truly holds the power, because the whole scenario is based on the submissive continuing to act in the submissive role.
Now, if Thiel could cite an example of a female totalitarian dictator, a female Hitler, Stalin, or Mussolini, why then many might find merit in the point which he is intending to make. As it is, he is wildly extrapolating, and as Armstrongism was always noteworthy for doing, is exaggerating to make their world view appear reasonable.
BB
"Now, if Thiel could cite an example of a female totalitarian dictator, a female Hitler, Stalin, or Mussolini, why then many might find merit in the point which he is intending to make"
ReplyDeleteRAMONA? :)
M.T.Relation Ships
file:///C:/Users/admin/Documents/here%20a%20littel.html
ReplyDeleteSorry Dennis, I don't have access to your C: drive... yet.
no one said I understood everything about computers..ha
ReplyDeleteWhat was the WCG reaction when Maggie Thatcher "ruled" Britain?
ReplyDeleteSee, now: Hardly anyone even knows about British Israelism. If you aren't quite sure about that, go look over at the discussion Ship of Fools.
ReplyDeleteArmstrongists certainly have an inflated appraisal of themselves.
Let's see now: First they have to convince people to look at the Bible, then they have to introduce them to the concept of Israel vs Judah, then to "lost tribes", then they have to go the whole route and teach them about British Israelism, followed by the implications on "latter day prophecy" and the judgments of God leading up to the Great Tribulation... puff, puff, puff... I'm exhausted!
It's a broken chain which pretty much no one has followed and the vast majority of the people don't even know what this post is talking about because of all the background you'd have to give for them to even begin to understand it.
Add to that, the concept of women ruling over British Israelism countries.
How extremely convoluted lies these are.
The Syfy channel is more believable and interesting (except on Sunday).
Thank you Dennis for the explanation of Isaiah 3:12 in its proper context. Your explanation makes sense to me.
ReplyDeleteI am going to summon the doctrinal committee of the Lake of Fire Church of God (me) pronto and adopt your explanation as our official church doctrine.
Ladies, you can now rule over us in the Church of God, and elsewhere.
Richard
PS - Brethren, please don't forget your tithes, offerings, special offerings, and whatever you do, please don't forget the all important Building Fund. Time is Short!
Hi Richard,
ReplyDeleteIn hindsite, so much of what WCG taught and why was taken out of context. It is a common mistake of most fundamentalists. Actually, the greatest examples of taking scriptures out of context are found in the Bible itself.
I won't belabor the issue, but "Matthew" in his "and thus it was fulfilled," statments, eight times takes OT scripture completely out of context, cuts and pastes, snips and ignores the intended meaning to come up with a new one.
Paul does the same thing in trying and often failing to weave his tale of no law, grace and how the gentiles fit into all this. Paul turns the father of circumcision, Abraham, into the father of the uncircumcised etc and does it badly.
He turns clear statements about Abraham's descendents (seed) into a word that really means "Christ," which is bunk. Over and over he misquotes and uses the Greek versions over the Hebrew and this from a man who claims to be a hebrew of the hebrews, who would NEVER really do that.
At any rate, Bob Theil and others continue the practice to this day and will never see it or change because they have too much invested in the mistake to begin with.