The Church of God a Worldwide Association released Feast attendance numbers this week. They had worldwide, 9,500 people in attendance. If those numbers are correct then they certainly took a major number of UCG members with them. Which then leads to the question, "Is everything as rosy in UCGland as they are letting on?"
Having over 6,500 members attend your first Feast is pretty dramatic to say the least. More members live outside the United States than reside in it. US COG members are getting sick of all the infighting going on and are leaving the various COGs in droves. Foreign congregations who tend to be isolated from all the political crap of the US ministries tend to be stronger in their commitment.
We also had a very strong international attendance during the Feast this year. You may not be aware of this, but about 40 percent of our total Church attendance resides outside the United States…The Feast of Tabernacles and Last Great Day capped off an extraordinary year for us…Our highest actual attendance on a holy day in the U.S. this year was 5,002. By including a very conservative estimate of two people per connection for the Webcasts during the Feast of Tabernacles, we calculate that COGWA had a total attendance of around 5,300 in the U.S. and close to 9,500 worldwide.
All of which suggests that CoGWA is now the largest of the ACoGs.
ReplyDeleteDo we know how many members for UCG these days?
In the light of CoGWA, my calculations suggest somewhere around 8,000.
But you know how it is with IBM Mainframe Systems Programmers: We get confused about Halloween and Christmas because...
Oct 31 = Dec 25.
(And for all of you who know about packed decimal, an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign! So there! Abend!)
Sure is a drop in the bucket compared to how many we had in the "good ole days". I remember something like 10,000+ at Big Sandy alone in the early 70s. I wonder where they all went? They're just recycled over and over. I wonder why the ministurds ALWAYS have to take people with them when they leave to start up another church? What a bunch of corrupt bastards!
ReplyDeleteI am sure things are just rosy in UCG. After all, they wanted all those people to leave. The plan is to replace them all plus more using the KOG Seminars (as if that is going to work...) Kubik was moaning about this time last year how in fifteen years of UCG there's been no growth at all. They want a total change of direction. Problem is, they keep recycling the same tired old logic in their message. Have you ever seen one of UCG's programs? They're terrible. They aren't convincing at all. Don't see how those KOG Seminars could be any better. I think there is a slow trickle out of UCG following last years debacle, but nobody wants to talk about it.
ReplyDeleteCoGWA is a competitor to watch closely because they are smart and seem to be very wiley.
ReplyDeleteIt does seem that for the moment UCG is a real loser. There are a number of things they could do if they really wanted to succeed. It is doubtful that they would have the wherewithal or will to make the deep structural and eschatological changes which could propel them to success. The blow that they have had should be a wake up call that they are not just "the chosen ones". At best, it appears that God is ignoring them and it goes downhill into entropy from there (not that He seems to be paying much attention to anyone these days). The first thing United needs to give up is their pride, then we'll talk.
But Anon 11:57, there is growth in UCG now. A minister at one Feast site said so, during a Bible study.
ReplyDeleteYet it's interesting that the UCG Feast site I attended didn't read those usual "greetings" from other sites - the ones mentioning attendance, so people could keep score if they wished.
I was in a city where several COG-related groups were meeting -- and at least one pastor noted that fact during a service. Didn't speak against "Feast-hoppers", either.
9,500 worldwide? Basically, that's nothing compared to any respectable evangelical mega-church. Also, if you spread 9,500 people over the entire globe, you have very little impact on any given local community, and very little resource to preach any kind of endtime or other gospel around the world.
ReplyDeleteSo, how is the HWA end-time gospel that Jesus Christ is going to return to establish Armstrongism as the government for the God's Kingdom getting out?
BB
Byker Bob said...
ReplyDelete"Also, if you spread 9,500 people over the entire globe, you have very little impact on any given local community, and very little resource to preach any kind of endtime or other gospel around the world."
MY COMMENT: Doh! Even when we had close to, uh..."144,000"(which we really didn't have, not even close), there was very little impact(actually, NONE)on any given local community, and absolutely no impact on "preaching the gospel"(what a joke!). Herbie was too busy trying to make a name for himself(that failed miserably too).
"So, how is the HWA end-time gospel that Jesus Christ is going to return to establish Armstrongism as the government for the God's Kingdom getting out?"
MY COMMENT: Through the weak splinter groups. They're not doing too well, not even close to what their mentor did. But, you gotta hand it to 'em. They still manage to pull in a few big bucks to live the good life!
There is always this watch and wait thingy happening in the remnants of the Armstrong movement. Some are sitting it out on the sidelines wondering what group will get it right, get it all fixed, end the hemmoraging, and actually begin to grow, then carry the message with power. Probably many are watching this new group in the hopes that this is it.
ReplyDeleteUsually, one does not need to wait very long to see new groups fail, but time will tell.
Miguel de la Rodente
The UCG decided to chase out any true believers while allowing wicked people to come in and run wild. The UCG thought this sort of freedom to sin while being slaves of depravity would appeal to the masses and help their group to grow. Too bad for them that it probably won't work any better than it did for the WCG/GCI under the Tkaches.
ReplyDeleteYou would think these UCG types ought to know this since they are some of the same bums who helped the Tkaches to destroy the WCG in the past. Hopefully they will destroy the UCG too before it wastes much more time.
"...any respectable evangelical mega-church."
ReplyDeleteRespectable evangelical?
Respectable evangelical???
No such thing!
I must confess to being a bit shocked by some of the pro-Armstrong anonymous comments. Isn't it considered to be like a major sin in the ACOGs to be doing drugs? I say this because you sure can't explain some of the comments either by logic, or in terms of Christian fruits.
ReplyDelete~Psychedellic Sam
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"The UCG decided to chase out any true believers while allowing wicked people to come in and run wild."
MY COMMENT: You gotta be kidding me! What's a "true believer"? Believing Armstrong's shit, no doubt.
"The UCG thought this sort of freedom to sin while being slaves of depravity would appeal to the masses and help their group to grow."
MY COMMENT: What sin? So, they're sinners in UCG, but not in COGWA??
"Too bad for them that it probably won't work any better than it did for the WCG/GCI under the Tkaches."
MY COMMENT: Guess what? It ain't gonna work in COGWA either, because it's based on the same faulty foundation and false premise.
"You would think these UCG types ought to know this since they are some of the same bums who helped the Tkaches to destroy the WCG in the past."
MY COMMENT: Those same BUMS are over at COGWA too. They just shuffled the chairs on the Titanic.
"Hopefully they will destroy the UCG too before it wastes much more time."
MY COMMENT: Yeah, I hope so, and may the same thing happen over there in the other Armstrong church.
Steve said... blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine.
ReplyDeleteSteve, you "just don't get it!"
I was merely pointing out that the UCG is going down the drain. I know first hand about some of the bad characters there and when I speak of wicked people running wild I am not exaggerating.
I did not say to go with the COGWA. You just carelessly assumed that I was taking their side.
BB: You are right that 9,500 is an insignificance blip on the screen worldwide, but for an upstart COG splinter group it has started off with a huge number of people. They may end up being a force to be reckoned with by those seeking a more "original HWA" style system over the liberals at UCG and the ultra-nutjob conservatives with Flurry, Pack and Weinland.
ReplyDeleteThe infighting will likely start there soon too. That is the legacy of Armstrongism. Fighting and bickering are our trademarks.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteSteve said... blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine.
MY COMMENT: I was just responding to your, "blah, blah, blah, whine, whine,
whine" remarks.
Steve, you "just don't get it!"
MY COMMENT: Goofey said, "You just don't get it. Yup. But, I get it! Yup, yup.".
I was merely pointing out that the UCG is going down the drain. I know first hand about some of the bad characters there and when I speak of wicked people running wild I am not exaggerating.
MY COMMENT: But, you didn't say a word about all the bad characters in COGWA. Why not? They're just as wicked as those in UCG, maybe moreso. I know many of them first hand as well.
I did not say to go with the COGWA. You just carelessly assumed that I was taking their side.
MY COMMENT: You are carelessly assuming I assumed you said to go to COGWA, but you sure seem to show them in a good light.
You said, "The UCG decided to chase out any true believers while allowing wicked people to come in and run wild.".
MY COMMENT: I ASSUME you mean that the "true believers" must have went to COGWA, or some other lunatic Armstrong church, like...LCG.
You said, "You would think these UCG types ought to know this since they are some of the same bums who helped the Tkaches to destroy the WCG in the past.".
MY COMMENT: I ASSUME you mean that the SAME BUMS are not anywhere else? Help me out here.
You said, "Hopefully they will destroy the UCG too before it wastes much more time.".
MY COMMENT: I ASSUME you mean you don't want to see COGWA, or say...LCG destroyed, since you didn't mention them. By your words, how can I ASSUME anything different.
"The UCG thought this sort of freedom to sin while being slaves of depravity would appeal to the masses and help their group to grow."
ReplyDeleteHuh?! Who's preaching "freedom to sin?" The UCG sermon I heard last Sabbath was about covetousness -- and the preacher was so much against it, he lumped an appeal for tithing in with it.
"...there is growth in UCG now. A minister at one Feast site said so, during a Bible study."
ReplyDeleteYes! No doubt about it! There has always been "growth" in the UCG. In 2010/2011 there was sudden, massive "growth" in the UCG. There will continue to be "growth" in the UCG until it is all gone. NEGATIVE GROWTH is a very real thing, as the UCG is learning.
"[STEVE'S] COMMENT: You are carelessly assuming I assumed you said to go to COGWA, but you sure seem to show them in a good light."
ReplyDeleteWhen compared to the UCG, all sorts of bad organizations could appear good. If the UCG is your type of group, go there. The UCG allows anyone in as long as they are bad. I think you could fit in there.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"[STEVE'S] COMMENT: You are carelessly assuming I assumed you said to go to COGWA, but you sure seem to show them in a good light."
When compared to the UCG, all sorts of bad organizations could appear good. If the UCG is your type of group, go there. The UCG allows anyone in as long as they are bad. I think you could fit in there.
MY COMMENT: I'm not in any Armstrong group. They are all bad. Which one do you fit in with?
Worldwide was always over impressed with itself, and the splinters are still afflcted with the same mindset.
ReplyDeleteI tried to find out what infinitesimally small percentage 9,500 would be of 7 billion, but my calculator only accepts the figure of seventy million. I'm just not interested enough to work it out on paper. If someone else has a larger calculator, I'll let them do it.
What's that saying about a fly on an elephants ass? Is this all their supposedly all-powerful deity of whom they are supposedly the only true representatives is capable of?