The speaker was Wayne Topping [in Britain] a new speaker. He said God’s holy days were very similar to Baal Worship he said it twice. He talked about Satan but in no relation to Day of Atonement. On Atonement he spoke about how the catholic church changed sabbath worship to sunday ect …
The only problem is that if the Apostle really did some research he would soon find that this is common knowledge. It has nothing to do with denigrating COG doctrines. It is a historical fact that many of the Holy days of the Israelites were very similar to the pagans they were living around at that time.
One of Apostle Malm's readers has this to add about Wayne Topping. Topping certainly sounds like an interesting guy. What he does certainly sounds no worse that a chiropractor or a naturopath and the things they do to manipulate the body. Some Armstrongites find some of the stupidest things to get upset about!
Wayne Topping (Phd) the speaker at UCG’s Feast in Britain is a practitioner of “Touch for Health” a form of Energy Kinesiology which is an attempt at manipulation of energy meridians given off by the human body. On this chart you can see where Wayne Topping fits in to this unrecognized health practice – “Wellness Kinesiology”: http://www.touchforhealth.us/About-Touch-for-Health/touch-for-health-interactive-tree.html. We cannot attest to his qualification for giving a sermon at God’s Feast of Tabernacles.
The TFH practitioner moves their hands over the subject’s body to either strengthen or weaken energy points/meridians to heal the subject of their ailment(s). This, quasi-spiritual (in our view), methodology is outside of: any recognized medical practice, Chiropractic or other orthodox and accepted health services. It relies upon the subject to relax and allow the practitioner to work without any conscious resistance, quite similar to how a hypnotist prepares their subjects.
Knowing Wayne Topping from past experience, we are aware that he had so much influence in one congregation (prior to WCG’s break-up), that he was called to service a patient rather than one of the Elders who was present. He has taught and practiced this “energy manipulation” system for decades within UCG. This practice removes God and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for our healing to a secondary concern in the view of those who are convinced about this unrecognized quasi-spiritual system. We have, and, we would STRONGLY recommend all true Christians to stay away from this “energy manipulation” system.
Then Apostle Malm responds with his keen observations on REAL Christian massage and it's fringe benefits. Since the Apostle is no longer married I can only assume he is not getting any REAL massages anymore. Maybe I should give the Apostle the benefit of doubt and admit he has a kinky side....
Massaging of sore muscles can be helpful, however this “energy lines” thing is just a relaxing massage with a lot of oriental mumbo. It is suppossed to enhance self esteem and relieve stress.
A good relaxing massage by one’s spouse ending with . . . is far far better for personal self esteem and relaxation; unless one is not marrried.
This is just a massage along with verbal hype to sell the deal to potential customers. The act is usually performed by female hands and in reality is just a sensual massage to relax a person.
Notice how many of the conditions claimed to be helped, are just matters of stress and personal; relaxation. James
http://www.massagetherapy101.com/massage-techniques/touch-for-health.aspx
I like this guy! Energy work, herbs, massage therapies and such are much more commonly used in the UK than here. A certain "paganism" has replaced Christian views for most I believe.
ReplyDeleteYou'll be more likely to get a crystal placed on you than a wafer in the UK.
There is a homeopathy store on every corner there as well. This may reflect the need to feel like one is doing something while you wait for medical care in their system, I don't know.
While I live in the Bible belt, most of my current friends are more like Brits. Most I can relate to and a few are a bit much and rarely spend any real time on earth in their minds..lol.
Hebrew Holydays did evolve from Canaanite agricultural holydays as it's all based on the solar and lunar cycles observable to curious humans and how it effects their agriculture and survival. One honors what keeps you alive.
Had an elderly client yesterday who owns a lot of radio stations and does programming. He asked me what I used to do...umm....anyway, by the time I gave an evasive answer because I connected radio to my previous calling, he proceeded to tell me all about WCG, GTA, HWA, Tkach, Charlotte, Oklahoma and the station he just started in Big Sandy...argh!!!
PS I have not personally found success or any credible worth to applied kinesiolgy, touch for health, chakra work and such. This is my experience. I have attended seminars on energy work and love the concepts. The body is electric and does have its fields. In one class we were "feeling" the energy fields and about 15 of us were in the class. The teacher asked if we felt it. One after another said "yes I do," "wow..yes" "I do..." I knew I had reached a boundry just having come out of my WCG experience of not speaking up at times or saying what you believe. I said.."I don't feel it..sorry." One after the other the rest of the students started..."I don't either, " "me either..." ha ha, it was hilarious!
ReplyDeleteThe teacher intervened and said, "you don't have to feel it for this class..." lol
It was a good lesson, again, in group think and compliance when not really felt personally. Humans do a lot of that I guess.
Christian massage? lol
Too bad it took me 40 years (most of my life) to figure this out. There is hope for a few (still somewhat covert) UCG men. We'll see what happens with him.
ReplyDeleteOn an arbitraty whim, I have a simple act of kindness for those of you who are willing. Trying to help a complete stranger turn her life around, healthwise. If you can spare 10 seconds, please vote for "LISA" here:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“What this world needs is a new kind of army - the army of the kind.” ~Cleveland Amory
Trying to help a friend in Minnesota. Need you to help me help her. Just for the next 10 days, I’ll post this. Please click on the link and vote. Consider it one act of kindness for the day, and part of a social media experiment. There’s a great story behind it that I can post about later. Takes 10 seconds. You are voting for "LISA". Thanks!
http://mspmag.com/Contests-And-Promotions/2012-Steele-Fitness-Challenge/
Easy way to spread a little love today for which you can never be repaid (in the carnal sense).
Thanks.
And more power to Mr. Topping and others like him. It may take a while to sink in.
So your an expert on British culture too, Dennis?
ReplyDeleteHe has taught and practiced this “energy manipulation” system for decades within UCG.
ReplyDeleteAnd here I thought the UCG has only been around for 17 years... decades?
How time flies when you're in a cult....
Kook massage is only OK if he doesn't charge for it.
ReplyDeleteDennisCDiehl said...
ReplyDeleteHebrew Holydays did evolve from Canaanite agricultural holydays as it's all based on the solar and lunar cycles observable to curious humans and how it effects their agriculture and survival.
MY COMMENT: From where did you get this little tidbit of information? Is this just speculation, because as far as I know the origin cannot be accurately traced? I thought they adopted the lunisolar structure from the Babylonians(just a guess).They definitely used Babylonian names for their months, and "borrowed" the Metonic cycle from the Greeks.
"There is reportedly archaeological evidence that the origins of Israel were in fact largely Canaanite, leaving, in the words of archaeologist William Dever, "no room for an Exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness."[11]"
ReplyDeleteSomewhat speculative I suppose but they did not grow out of a vacuum or are culturally unique. Much stems from my conversations with Israel Finkelstein when at Megiddo prior to his publication of The Bible Unearthed etc. His view is that much of Israel's history at least with concern to David, Solomon and before is contrived and has little if any evidence of reality.
I
It is true that the early Genesis stories spring from Sumerian tales that were given a Hebrew twist.
No anon, not an expert in British culture. But I can read and have British friends in the biz. What are you well read in?
The point being that origins are not usually as unique as presented by a culture.
ReplyDeleteThis is a long and detailed site on Sabbath origins and pre flood story and motives in other contexts.
http://www.bibleorigins.net/sabbathorigins.html
"The skeptics' claim that King David never existed is now hard to defend. Last year the French scholar Andre Lemaire reported a related "House of David" discovery in Biblical Archaeology Review. His subject was the Mesha Stele (also known as the Moabite Stone), the most extensive inscription ever recovered from ancient Palestine. Found in 1868 at the ruins of biblical Dibon and later fractured, the basalt stone wound up in the Louvre, where Lemaire spent seven years studying it. His conclusion: the phrase "House of David" appears there as well. As with the Tel Dan fragment, this inscription comes from an enemy of Israel boasting of a victory--King Mesha of Moab, who figured in the Bible. Lemaire had to reconstruct a missing letter to decode the wording, but if he's right, there are now two 9th century references to David's dynasty."
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteExaggerated the Christian/Pagan numbers. Sorry. I was speaking from the context of friends who are more esoteric in their practices which are not Christian and the general decline of faith in UK.
DB: Kook massage can be relaxing and comforting to those who believe in kook. True of beliefs as well right?
Steve, Understand that. Like all artifacts there are several ways of viewing it or what it says or means. Of course Israelites existed but the debate seems to be over just how glorious the reality of the Solomon and David stories really were. Finkelstein says that the physical evidence is bleak for Solomonic glory and David's larger than life Kingship. When in Israel visiting some of these sites, it is clear that exaggeration is somewhat of an artform in the Bible accounts of places and mighty places.
"Respondents throughout Britain were asked “What is your religion, even if you are not currently practising?” In 2011, 68.5% answered “Christianity”, compared with 71.3% in 2010. This roughly 3% decline over just one year is repeated over England, Scotland and Wales, building confidence in the figures. As might be expected, there was a reciprocal rise over the same period in the “no religion” category: 23.2% in 2011 compared with 20.5% in 2010.
As well as being surprised by this pace of change, many will also be astonished by the ranking of the nation’s scores on no religion, 2011 figures shown in descending order: Wales 30.6%, Scotland 27.2% and England 22.4%. And this similarly appears to be no fluke; the ranking was the same in the previous year.
There was also interesting material from the age profiles. The 25–34 age range was the one with the lowest proportion of Christians (55.4%) and the highest percentage of no religion (32.5%). The 65+ group predictably provided the highest percentage of Christianity (87.6%) and the lowest figure for the no religion (8.4%). Also notable was that 7.9% of the under 16s were Muslims. (All figures for Britain.)"
gotta fly...have a 90 minute post-natal session and a couple Kook Massages shortly
ReplyDelete:)
The claim re: David not existing is NOT HARD TO DEFEND. The two fragments of evidence so hungrily grasped by some as "proof" just do not permit a thinking person to conclude the biblical David existed. We could go on for a while about the arguable meaning of "house" (and it IS arguable) as well as other things. But is is laughable and kinda sad to pin strong belief on a "second proof" that required an outright "construction" in order to get no farther than the Dan finding. These two so-called pieces of evidence need WAY WAY WAY much more in order to approach a conclusion of David's existence. P
ReplyDeleteChristianity is an evolution of pagan traditions, so I see no big deal here.
ReplyDeleteFunny? Yes!
Outrage? No.
As far as Christian massage goes, I don't think it can beat the hilarity of back when Christian nutcase Jan Crouch was hawking "Christian Liposuction Seminars"
Norm
Well, much can be gleaned from reading Josephus, as well as the research contained in the notes to the TNIV Study Bible. What I've found is that people want to believe or disbelieve one thing or another, and often decide that what they want to believe is correct based on superficial research and information. What one person considers to validate his belief, others consider to validate their disbelief. And, that approach is often taken with artifacts such as engraved stones, manuscripts, and history from various sources. The best you can do is thorough due diligence, and make your decisions accordingly.
ReplyDeleteIt is inconceivable to minds that have been conditioned to believe that there are two polar opposites in terms of worship, and that these are labeled "God's way", and "the pagan way" that there could be any similarities at all between the two. Even in Biblical examples, pagan practices of worship were very similar to those commanded in the law of Moses. The key factor in worship of God is the object of worship. The Israelite holy days were very similar to those observed by the Canaanites, although there is not necessarily an evolutionary trail.
The pagans did animal sacrifices to their gods, just as the Levites sacrificed to YHWH. There were feasts and fasts. The most powerful nation was considered to have the most powerful god.
There are or were profound differences, however. Israelites did not have a pantheon of gods, they were monotheistic with worship centering on YHWH. Pagan nations made their children "pass through the fire" in sacrifice to their gods. Infanticide is part of the reason God destroyed the Phoenicians. Idols and idolatry were not acceptable ways of worshipping YHWH. And, temple prostitution, both heterosexual and homosexual, were never acceptable ways of worhipping YHWH.
If the ACOGs understood these basic facts, perhaps they wouldn't be running all over the place trying to uncover paganism in modern Christianity. They'd just focus on a personal relationship with God, and rely on God to clean up all of the pollution when we all have perfect knowledge in the future. In the meantime, attitude, attitude, attitude. Love of God, love of man, not worship of legalism. Avoid the obviously pagan, but keep your balance, and keep your focus on God.
This is another egregious example as to why Armstrongism can never provide the genuine spiritual experience. They focus on the "noise".
BB
Just thought of this: Do you think he knows about realigning Chakras?
ReplyDeleteI once knew a lady priest of the Wiccan persuasion, and she offered to realign mine. As a non-believer, I thought this was just the pagan version of superstition, hence making this ritual useless, so declined. She said that her crystals and gems would visible open and close the centers, and that it would be readily noticeable. No way was I going for that!
BB
Don't have good keyboard here bb but israekpl in ot was terribly polytheistic, fascinating story , the monotheistic types won out. U know,"let us"
ReplyDeleteChakra theory is intereting,but can,t prove it n don,t usE it
Den
I have a good friend in England (exWCG) who does Reiki. He did it in me once and incoukd feel something strong going on. So I don't doubt Topping in his abilities, I would rather go to him for help than to some of the WEIRD chiropractors we had
ReplyDeleteHey Den,
ReplyDeleteWe see that "polytheism" of the OT as being the same triune, uniplural God, ie Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Revelation also speaks of the spirits (plural) of God.
Anyhoo, there are a lot of theories I've run across including the one about YHWH or Elohim having a goddess/wife. According to one, it was Asherah, who apparently was responsible for all of those abominable Asherah poles that appeared and disappeared throughout the reigns of the various kings of Judah and Israel.
I don't have any problem with any of this so long as it relates to Father Yahweh God, and not some pseudo diety or demonic spirit.
Don't they have any of those inflatable keyboards you can carry around in your pocket over there in the Carolinas? (I jest!)
BB
My snap in keyboard is home.last client said she was a pole dancer, i askedher what part of Poland she was from? She just looked at me funny....what????? :-) Dd
ReplyDeleteActually el was the original father god, yhvh was originally assigned to israel by el, but eventually replaced el....
ReplyDeleteI really enjoy what i now do. 5 clients today, nice folk, no religious drama or Worry about how to pay for my college , auditorium or bmw. :-) Dd
ReplyDeleteJust wondering about Reiki. My sister insists she is a Reiki Master, but I want her nowhere near me! She Reiki'd the skunk that kept coming into our yard....what??? No, it still skunked us every evening as it walked by the window.
ReplyDeleteYou can't Reiki a skunk. LOL As if the skunk gives a damn.
ReplyDeleteDuh! My sister didn't see us rolling on the ground laughing. Our dog ended up getting blasted twice that summer, shoulda Reiki'd the dog evidently. ;)
ReplyDeleteIf it's the Wayne Topping I once knew, he is a New Zealander who actually got his PhD in vulcanology, then went to Pasadena in 1974. There's lots of energy in volcanoes, but not the type he is claiming to be exploiting now. He would have done better to get into the geothermal type.
ReplyDelete