There has been speculation swirling for several years, though more so lately, that Hillary Clinton might run for the presidency in 2016. Armstrongism has been particularly perturbed that women rule over nations because they take certain scripture literally and see it as prophecy in action.
The non-ordained self appointed false prophet Robert Thiel is in a dither today claiming that if she is elected then we will see the Isaiah 3:12 “prophecy" fulfilled. We will also see our damnation and the immediate decline of the country.
Has Hillary announced she is running? No. She signed a contract for a public speaking circuit. The non-ordained false prophet feels this is a precursor to her running for the presidency. These public speaking circuits draw huge crowds and are quit popular. Pasadena has these speakers come to the Pasadena Civic Auditorium several times a year and sells out each event. Most of the speakers are politicians who have served in various areas of the government. None of them have ever move don to seek the presidency.
Whether Hillary runs or not, today’s story about her signing the contract is NOT a prophetic event and does NOT mean she will run, as the false prophet Thiel is hyperventilating about.
The non-ordained false prophet quotes this:
February 18, 2013
Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton looks set to enter the lucrative speaking circuit as early as this spring, in the first phase of her public life after four years in the Obama administration.
The popular Democrat has signed on with the Harry Walker agency, which also handles speaking engagements for her husband, former president Bill. She is expected to draw fees in the high six-figures for some talks. The news was first reported by Politico, the Washington-based politics site.The former secretary’s next moves are being closely watched for signs that she is running – or not – for the presidency in 2016…A survey this month by Quinnipiac University, a major pollster, found that Clinton is the most popular political figure in the United States, with a 61-34 split in her favorability rating. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/18/hillary-clinton-enters-speaking-circuit
Then the non-ordained prophet says:
By accepting the speaking route, Hillary Clinton can have control of her workload, make money, keep her name in the news, and meet with various supporters should she choose to run for the presidency of the USA.
Ever since Margaret Thatcher was prime minister of the United Kingdom, I have felt that it is likely that the USA would end up with a female president or at least a highly influential woman in a top level federal government job. And Hillary Clinton has been fulfilling the latter for four years (as also have various female Supreme Court justices, etc.).
A female presidency can partially fulfill a prophecy in Isaiah 3:12:
As for My people, children are their oppressors, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths…
Of course, women are influential in the English-speaking nations and it is not absolutely required that the USA itself have a woman president, but I do feel that if we do get one, that this would be a partial, but significant, fulfillment of that prophecy.
When Barack Obama was re-elected I posted that I did not believe that the Great Tribulation would begin until after his second term ended (see Obama Re-Elected, So What is Ahead?). However, presuming she actually gets elected to become US President, the Great Tribulation could be during a Hillary Clinton term.
It’s funny that Armstrongite can go with the fact that women
were rulers over nations in the Old Testament stories and yet freak out if a
woman is in charge of something today. We had more women in the Church
that were capable of leading than most of the idiots that do so today. We
have all seen the depths of depravity that they countless splinter groups have
sunken into under the leader ship of men. Perhaps it is time for a COG to
elect a woman to lead them.
Wake up! "The" great tribulation was in 70AD when the jewish temple was destroyed. It ain't gonna happen now, no matter what Fatima, Malachy, the Mayans, or even the bible might be construed to have prophesied.
ReplyDeleteWhy is he hinging this on a speaking tour? Is Thiel forgetting that Hillary ran for prez 4 years ago? And that when she lost the primary everyone expected her to run in 2016? And that everything she's done so far is consistent with a 2016 bid?
Although, personally, if she were elected, it would be "a" great tribulation for me. I can not stand that woman. Can't we get some other woman to break the gender barrier to the white house.
Are you suggesting that the two witnesses have appeared? The Euphrates river has dried up? That the 200 million man army has marched into battle? The beast and false prophet have already appeared? How can the tribulation have occured if with the weapons at hand there was no risk that "no flesh be saved alive" if it didn't end? Also, how can it be the tribulation in 70 A.D. when the book of Revelation wasn't written until about 95 A.D.? Perhaps what happened in 70 A.D. was "a period of tribulation" but not the GREAT Tribulation.
ReplyDeleteHow does Thiel have ANY credibility with anyone? His degree is in quack medicine and he spent years with LCG.
On another subject: One name that was prominent years ago, I hear nothing about: GTA. I know he died, but what, if anything, is going on with Mark Armstrong and his group? Charity Navigator reports that their annual income was about $1 million a few years ago. Probably just enough money coming in to take care of Shirley and the boys.
Under the guise of "watching world events", every COG group feels the need to reinterpret the news thru the Armstrongist lens as quickly as possible. It provides a ready-made reason for members to stay focused on the group instead of the outside world. The side effect is that you also get a lot of freaking-out-about-nothing. My personal favorite of yesteryear was "The Plain Truth About 'The Empire Strikes Back'".
ReplyDeleteThey're just guessing, based on the dogma (and the dogma is so abyssimally stupid that it should probably be called catma) of Herbert W. Armstrong.
ReplyDeleteIf they were not guessing, this stuff would all have happened already when they said it the first time.
BB
My KARMA ran over your DOGMA!
ReplyDeleteJoe Moeller
Cody, WY
Hillary is twice the man Bob is...
ReplyDeleteIf it's good Karma, then my dogma has nothing to worry about!
ReplyDeleteLOL
BB
As long as Loma was around, she ran the church from "behind." That's why it all went to hell in a handbasket after her death...Herbert didn't really have the independent channel to God that WCG hoped people would believe. He just became manipulated by the next more powerful types around him.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting that the two witnesses have appeared? The Euphrates river has dried up? That the 200 million man army has marched into battle? The beast and false prophet have already appeared? How can the tribulation have occured if with the weapons at hand there was no risk that "no flesh be saved alive" if it didn't end? Also, how can it be the tribulation in 70 A.D. when the book of Revelation wasn't written until about 95 A.D.? Perhaps what happened in 70 A.D. was "a period of tribulation" but not the GREAT Tribulation.
Are you suggesting that the Apocalypse of John was to be literally understood? Will there literally be three frog-like creatures cross the Euphrates when it dries up? Maybe "no flesh would be saved alive" meant that if Rome had not rescinded the order to "kill them all" but allow the surrender of Jerusalem they would have all been killed.
It could be that those "two witnesses" are not what you think they are either - and where are those two witnesses mentioned in the Old Testament?
The tribulation began when Bob T. started publishing his thoughts.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding of Rev is that there are a lot of symbols and much and that John was describing what he saw with the vocabulary of his time. Imagine seeing an Apache helicopther with teeth painted on the top and missles and rockets spewing from the front. Wouldn't it look like a giant dragonfly spitting fire? If the prophecies of Jesus's first coming were fullfilled "literally" (meaning in the everyday use of the words at his time and in his culture)then shouldn't the propecies of his second coming be also? Your reference to "frogs", if you are thinking of Rev 16:13, is says "I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs" (NIV). John was trying his best to describe what he saw with his limited language. There is also a problem with how we understand numbers in Revelaton. John Walvoord wrote, ""While there will never be complete agreement on the line between imagery and the literal . . . though the symbolism is not always obvious, the general rule should be followed to interpret numbers literally unless there is clear evidence to the contrary."
ReplyDeleteThe date of the writing of Revelation is, I believe, about 95 A.D. And if REv 19 on has occurred and we are living in the millennium,then Jesus is doing as well as a ruler as Millard Filmore did as President of the U.S.
As for the two witnesses: they are not identified. Speculation revolves around Moses, Enoch, and Elijah, other say it is symbolic. Who they may be is best left in the obscurity in which God has surrounded them.
It's funny how the same cliche ideas keep cropping up again and again. Like the locusts in revelation = military helicopters. And like the idea that "prophecy" is written before the events prophesied about occurred.
ReplyDeleteI predict that Roderick Meredith will get older this year, unless he dies.
ReplyDeleteI know, I know, it's a bold prophecy, but it will surely come to pass.
It always cracks me up when I see a picture of the 'progressive' UCG's Board of Elders. A bunch of stodgy old men, and not a woman among them.
ReplyDeleteSadly and of course, it would be too much to ask to have a female among them.
Similarly with the Catholic church, whose old men have made sure there are no female priests.
It's not surprising, though, since the Bible teaches that women are not to speak in church and must obey their husbands.
Just like Catholic priests' wives obey their husbands...
Oh, wait! Catholic priests can't have wives. So in that regard, the UCG and other COGs are even ahead of the Catholic church, although that's not saying much for them.
-Norm
PS: That helicopter/grasshopper "prophecy" brought back some memories...how nutty the WCG was!
"The Plain Truth About 'The Empire Strikes Back"
ReplyDeleteAre you serious? That's awesome!
Anon: I was a member of GTA's group until around the time he died. There was a split along the lines of who would follow Mark (who I don't even think was ordained then...correct me if I am wrong) and a few who didn't. Maybe "follow Mark" is too strong. I don't know if Mark took over, or if he was pushed to take over. Either way, GTA's TV ghost is chugging along and providing for his family.
Paul Ray
This what will happen if Hillary is elected President:
ReplyDeleteThe same thing that happened under Obama, which is the same thing that happened under Bush. More spending, more military adventurism. More erosion of the Constitution.
Paul Ray
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAs for the two witnesses: they are not identified.
Yes, they are. Not in Revelation but in the "scripture" that the writer of the Apocalypse is using. The two witnesses are "the law and the prophets".
The Zealots ignored the law and prophets and killed the temple priests in Jerusalem who warned them that the Romans would destroy them.
The real "key" to Revelation, not the Armstrongite key, is 1:1-3. The things in the Apocalypse was to "shortly come to pass" because "the time is at hand" at that time - 1900 years ago.
ReplyDeleteAll of it had already happened when it was written - except for the return of Jesus and the destruction of the beast, which didn't happen - then or ever. IOW, just another false prophecy.
This will be the sign: If Hillary takes her oath of office as President while wearing a Terry Ratzmann mask, then the tribulation will follow soon thereafter.
ReplyDeleteBB
NORM WROTE
ReplyDelete:It always cracks me up when I see a picture of the 'progressive' UCG's Board of Elders. A bunch of stodgy old men, and not a woman among them.
Sadly and of course, it would be too much to ask to have a female among them.
I SAY...
Surely Norm you are older and smarter than this statement of yours. Women have always ruled the world and have been quite able to do so, especially from behind locked bedroom doors.
Further, what is wrong with old men? Young men are often fools, and lack experience. Youth is overrated as a skill set in todays Hollywood world. Old age and treachery ALWAYS overcomes youth and skill!
It is my understanding that the UCG has an organization for women called "Women of Valor" and that the council for this are the wives on the general council for UCG. Not a man amongst them! LOL!
Here is the website for "Women of Valor" http://women.ucg.org/
Us men are for more pussy whipped than we realize. It is an art form and ultimate conspiracy theory on how women rule everything!
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
Joe,
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that old men are bad.
But there's a category of old churchy dudes that do their best to keep manly control of church stuff they're in control of.
If women are indeed running the UCG from behind closed bedroom doors, then I hope some light will peek out from inside those doors in the form of their bylaws changing to let me see at least ONE woman in the next group of Elders.
It may happen.
"Old age and TREACHERY always overcomes youth and skill!"
ReplyDeleteYou said it Joe. These guys might look like washed up old farts, but they're pretty treacherous and conniving bastards who have managed to make a better living playing politics than many of the followers from whom they extort their income. And their wives knew full well who they were marrying. If for whatever reason you feel absolutely compelled to follow them, do NOT follow their example. Or that of their wives!