More trauma in the Living Church of God as it publicly fellowships and marks a television department employee.
When will this silly "disfellowhipping" and "marking" ever stop? The ones that really deserve it are usually the ones doing it. Get rid of the buffoons and idiots in the upper echelons and the lowly members might be able to live halfway decent lives in the church.
When will COG members start to realize that NO man in any organization can tell you wan to believe or how to do it?
Just waiting now for LCG to blame this employee for their recent epic failure in the Canadian TV market.
I know many of you will hear about me being declared an "enemy of the Church" which is NOT true... I've already been declared an "enemy of the Catholic Church" by my family many years ago... yet, I am actually an enemy of nobody except the evil one!
I LOVE God's people, I do discuss biblical topics and issues, and if something is not 100 % according to God's word—I will say so... how horrible of me! I know LOTS of things that I could say, but I do NOT make it a habit of giving specifics about those things that I know... I just don't! I will NOT attack anyone, nor have I personally attacked anymore publicly already—I have been attacked myself though, by MANY for YEARS, and could have filed slander lawsuits against individuals... I never did, and I never will either—God says that we should NOT take our brethren to court, and that is why I forgave and forgot those incidents... even though I had many witnesses that would have testified in MY favor!
I do understand if many of you, not knowing ALL the details or facts, do decide to unfriend me or block me—I will not be upset with any of you... I love you all, and I know that you will probably do as you're instructed. PLEASE do as you feel is best, that is what God would want you to do. I will be vindicated in time, I will trust in the God of Israel, He is my shield... so, I have total peace in this matter.
Again, I love you all brethren... see you down the road :)
In Christian faith and love,
Thomas Baca II
Enjoy the peace and freedom.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't whine: You were in a useless organization ruled by a wrong-headed tyrant.
Being dis-fellowshipped by WCG/LCG/ACOG = Finding the Truth which will set you free (without a fee)!
ReplyDeleteRichard
I am pretty sure Dave will be calling Mr. Bacca by ...noon today.
ReplyDeleteWell, Dennis, it is a salary.
ReplyDeleteIt would be better though, if he didn't need the money.
Let the relief give him time to clear his head.
Give your life to a cult, try to do the right thing and get tromped.
Now is the time to make some changes for the better.
I wonder if they snoop at members' social networks to see who is "in compliance" and who is "not in compliance" with removing and blocking marked people.
ReplyDeleteI can see it now.
"Sir/Ma'am,
The INSERT SOCIAL NETWORKING SYSTEM HERE Monitoring Team of the Blah Blah COG has noticed you have not removed Blah Blah from your SOCIAL NETWORKING SERVICE as instructed with the letter of Marking and Disfellowshipping. You have 72 hours to remove Blah Blah from your SOCIAL NETWORK SERVICE or you will risk suspension and/or disfellowshipment yourself. In Christ's Service... Blah Blah"
Heaven forbid they actually respond, that would probably get them the mark!!! LOL
Something is definitely up in LCG. Recently, Meredith has been talking more and more about the great unity at LCG HQ. The last time he was so forceful in proclaiming his group's unity was in 1998, just months before the GCG/LCG split, when he traveled to various parts of the USA telling GCG members all was well.
ReplyDeleteSome history of the GCG split
In 1998, Meredith spent GCG into bankruptcy and then left to form LCG. With the recent reports of LCG's financial crisis, is the old liar about to do the same thing all over again?
I expect with TV production skills he'd be better off than with minister only skills, Douglas, for sure. . He'll do ok I'm sure. Wonder what he specifically did?
ReplyDeleteIt's good that Dr. Thiel has other things to fall back on. lol
Did the they fire him?
ReplyDeleteDid he quit?
Another member has been granted his diploma (should he choose to accept it) and is now a graduate of Armstrongism with all the rights and priviledges thereunto appertaining.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to to Thomas Baca II!
Will he become Thielite or perhaps a Packrat?
ReplyDeleteI think it's obvious Thielite. He is just what Bob needs to fix his ailing prophetic ministry video. Bob's ratings will be enormous, go straight up, be awesome and over arching. Not to mention unlike anything anyone has ever seen in 2000 years.
ReplyDelete"I do discuss biblical topics and issues, and if something is not 100 % according to God's word—I will say so... how horrible of me! I know LOTS of things that I could say...I have been attacked myself though, by MANY for YEARS, and could have filed slander lawsuits against individuals..."
ReplyDeleteRead those above words very carefully, then read the essence of them "between the lines" - when I do I sense yet another "prophet of God" perhaps about ready to be raised up for one more end-time ministry on the COG scene.
I was told yesterday by someone closer to the situation than I am that Baca was upset because he was overlooked for a promotion he felt was due him. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. But the spirit behind the words is fairly clear to me. This may be one to watch, though with his background in TV production at least his Youtube videos should be of much better quality than Thiel's!
Sorry, Apostle Dave and Prophet Bob, Mr. Baca has started his own business.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hdthunder.com
Sorry, the above link doesn't work!
ReplyDeleteIndeed, HD Thunder Productions Services looks to be a viable working business making Videos in Charlotte.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking that if Mr. Baca was a significant part of the LCG broadcasts, it is the LCG who could suffer.
There is this sense that something's up, not just with LCG but with all the ACoGs. 2013 looks like manic meltdown year as we get closer and closer to the end, while the end becomes more and more illusive. Maybe the only end we are going to see in the near future is the end of some of the memberships and maybe even the end of some of the ACoGs.
A guy can dream, can't he?
Interesting, Baca writes:
ReplyDelete"I do understand if many of you, not knowing ALL the details or facts, do decide to unfriend me or block me—"
This highlights another aspect of disfellow/marking, which is the reactions of the membership. I recall, as a believer, what sort of images were conjured in my own mind of how "evil" a disfellowshipped ex-member was, if so announced by a church leader.
As a member, I never met one, but I can bet I would have been shivering and shaking in my boots had I come face-to-face with a disfellowshippee (or even worse, marked!) What a simpleton i must have been.
Then later, after leaving WCG, I learned what it really means for someone to "be disfellowshipped", which is basically the result of thinking for yourself instead of bowing to authority. And I personally got to taste what Baca has experienced or at least fears, being de-friended and considered some sort of evil pariah.
But that's all part of the package, the mind/behavior control of religion, as so exquisitely exemplified by WCGdom!
Indeed, being disfellowshipped is a badge of honor these days, just like the graphic on this blog entry.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it isn't as easy as you think.
Oh, sure, if you are desperate to stay with the cult you're in, they will be quick to disfellowship you in spite.
But if you really WANT to be disfellowshipped, these cults seem to think twice about it and refuse to disfellowship you as an insult.
No one I know of has yet fallen into the hands of Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so, the cults must not be doing it right -- or more likely, the ones who left are escaping the Devil in the first place and living their lives in peace and prosperity for the first time since they entered the cult.
when I left WCG long time ago, I had a few ministers coming to check up on me. Unfortunately I couldn't clear the deck of some of my worldly friends sitting in my house. The ministers didn't feel comfortable and left quickly, soon thereafter I was told not to come back to church as obviously I was living a worldly lifestyle....so true, but I was never officially marked. Maybe I wasn't important enough, or maybe I wasn't pushing my ideas on others. So glad I had those worldly friends, as without them I would have been totally alone. My experience was that they didn't officially mark most people, maybe it just got too embarrassing.
ReplyDeleteThat "destruction of the flesh" thing only worked when there were no other churches to go to. Now you get handed over to another church where you might actually be more comfortable, taking the sting out of the judgement. DD
ReplyDeleteIt will be morbidly interesting, in the wake of the "public marking and DFing" (not that it was either) of Thielogical Bob, to see what Spanky has to say, when he waxes wroth against this guy.
ReplyDelete"I do understand if many of you, not knowing ALL the details or facts, do decide to unfriend me or block me"
OH, Facebook. Well, that explains everything.
"I wonder if they snoop at members' social networks to see who is "in compliance" and who is "not in compliance" with removing and blocking marked people."
ReplyDeleteOf that I have absolutely no doubt (I have a sinking feeling, based on comments I picked up here and there, that that's how the Evangelicals keep track of the GRUMPs).
The form letter Anon posted, while accurate in intent, would more likely be, in reality, a home visit or a phone call, from the unwitting victim's "pastor." And I use that last word extremely loosely.
"Read those above words very carefully, then read the essence of them "between the lines" - when I do I sense yet another "prophet of God" perhaps about ready to be raised up for one more end-time ministry on the COG scene."
ReplyDeleteI dunno, Leo, it seems to err a bit more on the side of "persecuted faithful servant" to me. Though where the member ends up, remains to be seen (and really isn't any of our business anyway, so long as he doesn't set up shop as Yet Another Apostle).
No wonder then why I can't invited to church. They see my FB friends probably...
ReplyDeleteOh..actually could use more. I"'m not as popular as you might think lol.
Look me up and friend me if you wish puuuuuuullllllllllease!
Dennis Diehl pic is red shirt black frame glasses. Hurry! Offer ends soon!
Bacca isn't all the way out yet. Meredith's propaganda is sewn much deeper than people realize.
ReplyDelete1) RCM has spent years spewing vile hatred toward all the other churches of God. Satan is the biggest accuser of the brethren. Rod Meredith is #2. It will take about 6 months for Bacca to realize he's been duped. In the meantime, he is vulnerable to another hate-filled dictator who will scoop him up, and then nothing will have been gained.
2) RCM has spent years deliberately deceiving his people about hierarchical government. Again, it will take Bacca about 6 months to wake up to the possibility that RCM was actually wrong about government. In the meantime, Bacca may just switch his wrong beliefs to a different dictator.
3) RCM has spent years telling people that LCG is the only one really doing a work. Since Bacca was right in the middle of that "work", this will be an especially difficult fog to escape.
I would guess that Bacca is still under RCM's hypnosis, and therefore is still vulnerable. It will take months for the fog to clear.
It really is hypnosis. That is why there is a "weekly update" from Charlotte. To keep people's focus on the swinging pendulum. This is why they get a must-play sermon from RCM once a month. Co-worker letters from RCM focused on his "work", the whole gamut. If people stopped focusing on RCM & LCG's HQ, they might actually focus on Jesus Christ, and then it's all over for LCG.
"There is this sense that something's up, not just with LCG but with all the ACoGs."
ReplyDeleteThose must be some pretty primo drugs you've got there, Douglas; though I will say, a lot of people seem to feel that way, I think it's part of the old mindset people haven't disposed of yet; after all, "the last time cycle" allegedly ended in 2010, according to the GRUMPs -- and nothing happened then.
December this year will mark the 20-year anniversary of the captivity of the Church...reading the major prophets (er, the ones in the book, not the multitude of miscreants running around claiming themselves as same), there might very well be a loooooooooooooooong haul for the Church to get through yet. (Half a century's worth, in fact, in my opinion. Give or take.)
But, as everyone knows, in and out of the Church, "Read The Book!" is not the highest priority in the minds of those it should be.
Surely you remember how we all used to get so crazy over numbers. We couldn't see the forest for the trees. Which still seems to be an issue for people. (Even me, sometimes, but I try not to do that.)
All that said, Gary's blog here doesn't so much add fuel to all the wild mass guessing, so much as open a tanker ship of Brent Crude over it.....
Obviously the "Disfellowshipped" thing has been overdone and overused.
ReplyDeleteHeck, 90% of the Sabbatarian COG brethren today have been disfellowshipped at one time or another, mostly because of organizational loyalty issues, not MORALITY issues.
I have not heard of the public disfellowshipping and marking technique used anywhere in the UCG in many years. Usually people are just quietly asked to leave privately and they comply.
However, what should be the technique used if someone is really over the top in their public sinning, say, open , deliberate and solicitous sexual behavior , or coming to church stoned continually and without remorse?
After warning, they still keep coming lets say, or refuse to serve a private suspension or "probation" until they get there act together.
Then, as what happened with the Corinthians, something public has to happen. The mechanism is for restoration , not as a "spiritual death sentence" or "public flogging". Marking and disfellowshipment has been misused greatly in the past, and used as a control and power element. That use is incorrect.
We dont know the facts of the Baca case. If it is for corporate doubt, or doctrinal variance then this sounds a little over the top. By contrast, realize that even Thiel (who has been very outspoken against RCM) was not disfellowshipped or marked at LCG , so I am left wondering what are the facts in this case.
When I was threatened with disfellowshipment at WCG in the Spring of 95 for not going along with Tkach, (I was producing a weekly humorous but also serious underground paper at the time for the sake of my Sabbatarian comrades at church) , I said Id go easy if they disfellowshipped me BUT put in a written letter with all of the specific facts so that I could frame it and put it in my trophy case.
The WCG minister asked me not to have it done that way. I insisted though. He then said... LOOK- if I take you and your wife out to this really good Italian restaurant and pick up the tag, will you just leave? My wife is a big Italian food fan, and she said, " hey at least it is a small donation refund from WCG" LOL!
We went out with the minister and his wife, and we all had a good cry together. We realized that life thereafter was going to be very different for all of us, and indeed it has been.
So I consider my "disfellowshipment" to have been the best and most pleasant one EVER in the history of the COG.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
It was asked whether LCG will spy on the social networks. Almost certainly. They won't disfellowship based on these associations, but they will note people as "unreliable" or "unstable". And you will never get off that list. Just remember what WCG did when GTA would come to a town. The WCG deacons would take down the license plates in the parking lot and disfellowship people who were there. Meredith won't do this, but not because he has matured as a Christian, no, but because it would result in him losing power.
ReplyDeleteSounds like MR. BACA II has been READING a LOT of church LITERATURE because his FONDness for EMPHASIS is a dead GIVEaway.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Leo, read this over FIVE times and YOU might GET it, despite a TYPE-O or misspelling or TWO.
"... 'the last time cycle' allegedly ended in 2010, according to the GRUMPs -- and nothing happened then"
ReplyDeleteNothing happened!? Nonsense. The pope farted on Jan 16 and it caused a hurricane in Edmond.
Leo: Should I explain that for ya?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteVelvet said...
ReplyDelete"There is this sense that something's up, not just with LCG but with all the ACoGs."
Those must be some pretty primo drugs you've got there, Douglas;
Right, Velvet, they are primo drugs, all prescription from my HMO and none of the psychotropic.
Here we are, in the last few months, Ronald Weinland is now in prison, Dennis Luker died, Robert Thiel has gone... whatever he's gone to, Dave Pack is on a Edifice Complex spree, Meredith is doing odd things (near as we can tell, but maybe they're not odd for him), Melvin Rhodes is nauseated, demolition of the Old Ambassador College continues apace, Flurry (according to some) is getting much worse... and it goes on and on.
I observe trends and things really seem dicey these days in the ACoGs.
But then, if the economy gets better, they will really be desperate and we will likely see more desperate manic behavior accompanied by odd activity and events.
What's a GRUMP?
Personally, I like curmudgeon, on the order of Andy Rooney of 60 minutes.
Or did you think I was appealing to the supernatural, rather than the standard ACoG arrogance?
Douglas, a GRUMP means God's Righteous Under Much Persecution. It's a name folks still aligned with Joe Jr. humorously(?) chose for themselves. They disagree with the doctrinal changes and overall direction that the Tkach's took the WCG (now GCI) in, but felt Joe Sr., and now Joe Jr. to be the sole representative of "God's Government" here on earth, due to the mantle being passed down from HWA to Joe Sr. and then eventually to Joe Jr. - in principle just like a hereditary monarchy, such as the kings of ancient Israel/Judah, only instead of father to son it's passed down from the current Pastor General to the next one. Much like the source of the difference between the Sunni and Shia divisions in Islam.
ReplyDelete"I will trust in the God of Israel..."
ReplyDeleteBe sure to wear your phylacteries while you're at it, Thomas.
And boys & girls, make sure you wear your PROPHYLACTICS too!
ReplyDeleteJoe Moeller
Cody, WY
Baca is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Those who read his side of the story are pulled into his despair of "oh I've been falsely accused" line of crap. Those on the other side see the demons that have pulled and tugged on him. Their telecast can only get better as it's been awful to watch over the past few years. He's been at war with the LCG for years and get got what he asked for, a one way ticket out.
ReplyDeleteHooray! Another ACOG did something to screw themselves up.
ReplyDeleteHopefully, Mr. Baca will find a good, Bible-based church that is not associated in any way with Armstrongism, and will live happily ever after.
BB
Or even better, Byker Bob, perhaps Baca will find a good, reality-based way of escaping the entire faith-based nonsense called the religious worldview, and REALLY live happily ever after!
ReplyDeleteLet's face it, many "leave" Armstrongism by simply exchanging one set of ideological chains for another equally restrictive set of ideological chains. So nothing really changes except their kind of shackles, because they still refuse to rigorously examine the overall prison of ungrounded faith-based supernaturalism. If they did, they then truly might be set free.
"The way to belief is short and easy, the way to knowledge is long and hard." Ernst Stuhlinger
Someone please disfellowship me!!! It would make exiting this cult so much easier and quicker!
ReplyDeleteHow terrible for Mr. Baca. I wish him all the best to him and hope he finds a happy path in life free from Meredith and LCG's authoritarianism.
ReplyDelete"Mrs. Stuhlinger told me she prefers the way to knowledge." Ernst Stuhlinger
ReplyDeleteSo what exactly was Baca's sin?
ReplyDeleteIf, as professing Christians, they're following Paul's example in his letter to the Corinthians in disfellowshipping a man for incest then what did Baca specifically do wrong?
Otherwise IMO they're using Paul's example for their own manipulative and abusive purposes i.e. excommunicating a member but not explaining to everyone exactly why. And moreover it's rarely done for the purpose as Paul did it and outlined in his letter i.e. to lead the Christian to repent and reform his way and return to the fold. Instead it's usually resorted to by cults to intimidate, harass and silence others with a different viewpoint.
Mini-lesson on ostracism: historically social ostracism has been the traditional way to protect the tribe from individuals who are deemed as dangerous by the leaders. It probably reached it's most sophisticated height as a cultural mechanism during the period of Athenian democracy of circa 500 B.C. The group psychology of ostracism has been defined as “any behavior in which a group or individual excludes and ignores another group or individual.”
ReplyDeleteThink about this definition carefully, and you'll see that it pretty much describes the history of the modern-day COG's - except that the procedure is just referred to by a different term, disfellowshipment.
Simon wrote:
ReplyDelete"So what exactly was Baca's sin?"
Sometimes when church leaders "disfellowship" it isn't because of the sins of disfellowshipped party, but because of the sins of the ministers.
I feel sure that most ministers have an instinctual knowledge that they are extracting an income from other people and providing little or no value in return. They have some level of awareness of the parasitic nature of the arrangement, so they're usually insecure and easily threatened.
When a member wakes up from the stupor of groupthink and begins to think for himself, either he'll begin to ask too many difficult questions that make it obvious how intellectually lazy the ministers have all been, or else they'll ask or provoke incisive questions of their neighbors, which foments thought, logic, and sense among the hosts that the ministers live off. If he can't keep a lid on the imaginary nature of his services, he knows he'll be out of a job. So he has to nip these things early and prevent the spread of ideas that threaten the belief in his hosts that they can't get their everlasting reward without him. Kicking people out is one way of shutting down the spread of threatening ideas. The easiest charge to trump up is "sowing discord."
So, what are these sins of the ministry that members get punished for? Lying, stealing, greed, sloth, pride, extortion, embezzlement, just to name a few that come to mind. I think of it in the same terms as how David sentenced Uriah the Hittite to death so that David could cover up his own sins. Thankfully these days they just disfellowship you, they don't kill you anymore.
Joe wrote:
"I have not heard of the public disfellowshipping and marking technique used anywhere in the UCG in many years. Usually people are just quietly asked to leave privately and they comply."
I think it's funny that Joe would draw any distinction between these two. Although UCG doesn't use the antiquated "disfellowship and mark" terminology anymore, disfellowship by any other name smells as foul.
The UCG/COGWA split was far more complicated than the Baca affair, but this same thing caused the firestorm that led to the big split: ministers sinned, got caught, and then punished those who found out and wanted to expose them. The charge leveled by the now-COGWA ministers was that the current UCG leadership stole power by conspiracy and fraud. The countercharge was to play the "plausible deniability," "submit to authority/rebellion," and "sour grapes" cards. Neither side had clean hands as both of these factions had been doing underhanded political dirties to each other for 15 years already, so it had as much to do with historical grievances as then-current ones, which is why it was so complicated. Vic Kubik said he was fine with losing half of the membership. Why? It was less costly to him than admitting his sins and public disgrace--especially if he wasn't going to get to expose the catalog of past sins by other ministers against him. But the enormous public relations efforts on both sides, the useless attempts to spin and shut down the flow of information, and the kicking out of many, many people were all vigorous attempts by ministers to sacrifice other people to cover up for their own sins.
And that's why COGWA is currently experiencing internal dissent now as well - the disgruntled group of fanatics calling themselves "Gideon's 300" still within COGWA, along with many other disappointed members. Just give it enough time though, and then there will be yet another break-off "remnant group" proclaiming themselves the true and faithful COG.
ReplyDeleteMan, no wonder David Barrett said he had such an incredible time researching the splinter groups that arose out of the former WCG - just one textbook case after another of religious craziness.
Head Usher wrote: "I feel sure that most ministers have an instinctual knowledge that they are extracting an income from other people and providing little or no value in return. They have some level of awareness of the parasitic nature of the arrangement, so they're usually insecure and easily threatened. When a member wakes up from the stupor of groupthink and begins to think for himself, either he'll begin to ask too many difficult questions that make it obvious how intellectually lazy the ministers have all been, or else they'll ask or provoke incisive questions of their neighbors, which foments thought, logic, and sense among the hosts that the ministers live off. If he can't keep a lid on the imaginary nature of his services, he knows he'll be out of a job. So he has to nip these things early and prevent the spread of ideas that threaten the belief in his hosts that they can't get their everlasting reward without him. Kicking people out is one way of shutting down the spread of threatening ideas. The easiest charge to trump up is "sowing discord.” ”
Head Usher, I must say you seem to have an impressive talent at being able to verbally distill down to it's barest essence the heart of COG strategy. Amazing. But yes, much of it does comes down to keeping folks from asking too many penetrating questions. That’s the key: discourage questioning at virtually all costs.
"Here we are, in the last few months, Ronald Weinland is now in prison, Dennis Luker died, Robert Thiel has gone... whatever he's gone to, Dave Pack is on a Edifice Complex spree, Meredith is doing odd things (near as we can tell, but maybe they're not odd for him), Melvin Rhodes is nauseated, demolition of the Old Ambassador College continues apace, Flurry (according to some) is getting much worse... and it goes on and on.
ReplyDeleteI observe trends and things really seem dicey these days in the ACoGs."
As opposed to, say, 2008, when Weinland declared It's The End of the World as we Know it (And My Swiss Account Feels Fine), Pack gave the Clarion Call sermon, Meredith had his stroke, Gerald Flurry had his DWI, just as his own Edifice Rex started going up, and parts of the old Pasadena campus first started coming down.
I observe that things have always seemed dicey amongst these people, Douglas; it's like a madness-fueled merry-go-round.
"What's a GRUMP?"
ReplyDelete"God's Righteous Under Much Persecution" - I only heard of them on Ambassador Watch, apparently they used to be led by some guy last name of Wall? Leo knows one of them personally, he can fill you in more.
There are hardliners in the Church who consider themselves faithful, by submitting to the appointed leader of the Church (which would be Junior, but I don't believe he ever qualified to lead the Church, so I disagree with the hardliners there)...but there's an Evangelical minister in the UK who has either appointed himself, or been appointed by Junior (more likely than you think---the current Scottish Presbyterian "I found Jesus when I was 14!" ND in the UK was apparently handed down from (On High -- no, wait) Glendora after a job interview) to "lead" these "faithful" as their "Moses."
The only problem is, "Moses" is telling them to judge the others in the Church harshly (no forgiveness in this sect) and that the Church taught salvation by works alone. Which, as you would expect, effectively alienates and isolates the faithful who have been so deceived, from the rest of the Church. Which suits the Evangelicals just fine. They never sucked me in, though, because I recognized right from the start that they were preaching a false gospel, and NOT one that I "had heard from the beginning."
Like I say, I don't know from whence this guy came, but he is highly regarded by the Evangelicals (all of whom claim "has embraced the changes"), and he is actually, literally, worshipped by the hardliners who follow him. As in, they say HE fulfills Deut. 18:18, instead of, uhhh, Jesus. (Which right there was my one big red flag.) So far he and his cronies (There are apparently a bunch of them, they play themselves off as some kind of fifth column, when they're anything but.) have sucked in one Canadian family, and like I say, they tried with me, and I basically fled screaming into the night.
Whether or not they are doing this with Junior's blessing/encouragement, I have no idea. But it wouldn't surprise me, since it serves the purpose of turning the faithful away from God, even if these ministers of misery can't turn them towards the Evangelicals' foreign gods.
"but felt Joe Sr., and now Joe Jr. to be the sole representative of "God's Government" here on earth, due to the mantle being passed down from HWA to Joe Sr. and then eventually to Joe Jr."
ReplyDeleteYeah, the hardliners in the UK buy this (I'm assuming that means this is what "Moses" is teaching them), but they're overlooking the salient fact that neither Senior nor Junior qualified to lead God's government on earth --- exactly the opposite, in fact --- therefore, all things being equal, God's government on earth currently has no present human leader.
"Joe wrote:
ReplyDelete"I have not heard of the public disfellowshipping and marking technique used anywhere in the UCG in many years. Usually people are just quietly asked to leave privately and they comply."
Head Usher wrote:
I think it's funny that Joe would draw any distinction between these two. Although UCG doesn't use the antiquated "disfellowship and mark" terminology anymore, disfellowship by any other name smells as foul."
I agree with Head Usher. Funny thing though, the Church ues exactly the same rhetoric Joe claims UCG does. Not that I ever bought into the wild-eyed conspiracy theory the professing Christians over at ESN babble on about, that UCG and the Church are really joined at the hip -- so explain to me CoGWA then, if that's the case, you nuts?
In my area, however, it was rabid Evangelicals who were asked to leave because they were making trouble.
Aw, Gideon's 300 is just a storm in a teacup. I don't think there were ever as many as 300 in it anyway, although there were a lot of the paid ministers in it. But paid ministers are loathe to put anything in black and white lest it come back to haunt them, so none of them were ever very active anyway. After the split, I think most people became inactive there. Still, the problems were caused by a handful of people with pet doctrines, and mostly that handful weren't ministers anyway. I expect that's going to blow over and be quickly forgotten.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I would not be surprised if LCG did fracture soon after Meredith dies, and down the road I am sure that both UCG and COGWA will each splinter some more.
I think it's especially funny when UCG splits since it's so antithetical to their brand name, "United," and they spend so much money on branding, but invalidate all that work because they're all such badly behaved, spoiled old children.
"fanatics calling themselves "Gideon's 300" still within COGWA"
ReplyDeleteMy reaction.
Velvet wrote:
ReplyDelete"God's government on earth currently has no present human leader."
Yeah, that's because there's no such thing as "god's government." HWA just made that bullshit up to get people to submit to him, and look up to him as jesus christ's sole representative. A bunch of malarkey all.
"God's government on earth currently has no present human leader."
ReplyDelete"Yeah, that's because there's no such thing as "god's government."
Functionally, Anonymous, you and I are essentially saying exactly the same thing. Well, except you likely disagree that God's government at this time is being led by, y'know, God.
I heard, from a rather dubious source, that Baca's sin was producing one of my favorite COG flicks, "The Painted Harlot of Charlotte":
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j9FH1nozADw
I heard he was marked for having a bad prostate.
ReplyDeleteSo, what would "god's government" be? God, and ... you. That's it. That's like saying, "the Henderson government" to describe the relationship between Bill Henderson and his son Billy Jr. An absurd way to speak.
ReplyDeleteBut you're right, I believe in Schrödinger's God. Right now, he both exists and doesn't exist. After I die, god's wave function will collapse, and then he'll be forced either into or out of existence.
"I believe in Schrödinger's God. Right now, he both exists and doesn't exist."
ReplyDeleteYou realize, I hope, that Schrödinger only said those kinds of things because he was making fun of Bohr. He didn't believe it himself. It's actually Bohr's god that you "believe" in.
ReplyDeleteLeonardo wrote:
"Head Usher, I must say you seem to have an impressive talent at being able to verbally distill down to it's barest essence the heart of COG strategy."
Thanks Leonardo.
This was all quite interesting to read, and humorous too. I appreciate the supportive comments though, VERY much! Notice the ALL caps, lol. Someday ALL the details will come out, and I will be vindicated... that will be a wonderful day :)
ReplyDeleteBTW, I was NOT fired, I resigned... big difference, and was "marked" after I wrote LCG HQ and let them know that I wouldn't be attending with LCG any longer. My letter was totally polite and respectful too btw--not that the facts or TRUTH matter to anyone over there!
--TB2
Well said Mr Baca, well said. There are some of us who do know a few of the facts you're referring to, I believe. Yes, you'll be vindicated someday, hopefully, but until then, be of good courage and know that you are greatly missed. Keep your head up, for the redemption draws near. Miss you on Facebook, your comments often made me smile and think. Thank you. I'm one of those who did not unfriend you. Where have you been? Any new poems? Come back!!!!
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Tom, I was one of your FB friends and miss you! Hope all is well.
ReplyDeleteWow Tom Baca lives! Lol. I was also one of your Facebook friends, and I miss you too. I will send you a private email, and we can catch up. I know you my friend, and I know that you are a good man. Do not let LCG or anyone else get you down, that is what people and organizations like that want... their subjects either obey, or they get the boot, and if they know any of the leaders' dark secrets, well... they get black listed, marked, and discredited in every possible way. I have seen it happen many times over the decades. I'm an old WCG member, and I know some of LCG's top leaders, and let me say, if the LCG membership knew 10% of the facts and truth about their top leaders, they would run away from that organization as fast as they could. The real shame belongs to those in LCG who do know the real character and behavior of their leaders and do nothing... usually because they are hoping to get ordained someday, or they work at the LCG headquarters... it's always amazing to see self proclaimed Christians sell themselves out for a dollar, and rationalize their actions to themselves. Shame on them! Good for you Tom Baca, you made a stand and that is what being a genuine, real Christian is all about. Now, get yourself back on Facebook and make us laugh again, we can all use it. Watch your email.
ReplyDeleteBy now, Tom's head should have cleared and he can see how wrong Meredith is about many things. Most people in LCG are hypnotized by RCM and don't know it. This is why RCM insists on being the focal point of the church. His "must play" sermons are seen by everyone at least once a month. He writes the lead articles in the magazines. He writes most of the letters. The weekly updates focus on him. We're always hearing about the "success" of the TV show. Charlotte and RCM are the focus of the entire church. Like all good hypnotists, he keeps you focused on him, so you won't see what is really going on. Further, it ensures you won't focus on Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteI've recently heard that Mr. Baca wants to return to LCG. Life living under a bridge has gotten to him and he's trying to make nice with the hand that used to feed him. Will LCG accept him after what he said about them? Will Mr. Baca recant on the things he said about LCG?
ReplyDeleteNo Tom did not want to go back to LCG. He just wanted to clear the air and put some matters straight. Which of course League and Rod did not want to hear LOLO.
ReplyDeleteI would NEVER want to work for LCG again, EVER! In fact, I regret that I ever worked for them at all. BTW, whoever wrote the comment saying that I'm "living under a bridge..." is obviously an idiot-not to mention a LIAR and someone with an "axe to grind." How unchristian and pathetic is that? So, whoever wrote that anonymously, let that person give their name, then we can talk about them. I'm pretty sure that I know who wrote it; however, since I'm not 100% sure, I won't bear false witness, as so many at LCG still do, and mention that man's name. Yes, I spoke with the LCG ministry recently, and followed God's biblical instructions correctly, regarding a serious matter; however, LCG is NOT handling the situation according to the scriptures and is actually covering up the truth-to protect themselves; as well as, a certain female TV department employee there, who has NOT fully repented and is continuing in sin... LCG knows this, yet they need her to edit Tomorrow's World TV programs, so they are throwing the bible "out the window," so to speak-allowing a practicing commandment breaking woman to be editing their TV programs and attending services, etc... without being "marked" or disciplined according to the scriptures. So therefore, it's clear that LCG has chosen to LIE about the issue, cover up and hide the truth, not follow biblical instructions, and attack me-someone who actually has repented, and told the absolute truth... with evidence available to back it up, not to mention my offer for ALL of the parties directed involved to take polygraph (lie detector) exams. Of course, I was the ONLY person wanting to take those exams... hmm... funny huh? The truth hurts, and LCG does NOT want to handle or tell the truth about many matters or situations. It's easier for them to lie, cover up the truth, and attack brethren who are telling the truth. Sure hope and pray that Christ comes SOON!
ReplyDelete-TB2
Note: The name of an individual woman was redacted.
ReplyDeleteLooks like the living church of rod is at it again. I heard that one of rod's sons was sexually harassing women at their headquarters over in Charlotte. I also heard that an living university student there in Charlotte got a private body massage by a fifty year old unmarried man who also is in a prominent position with lcg. And I heard that (redacted female name) had a hot and heavy affair with her former boss over there at their headquarters in Charlotte too, wonder if that is what tb2 is referring to in the above comment. What the beep is up with those people? These people are preaching to us and the rest of the world and they are more screwed up than most people are and their leaders are the most screwed up of all it seems. Rod can't even teach his own kids much less run a church.
That is not all one of LCG's Ministers just ran off with a much younger woman and they are covering that up too. There is a known pedifile that is high up in the church (told to me by Meredith himself). And they have just disfellowshipped 25 people at the HQ church for going against Bob Leagues authority. But they are going to have record growth because Satan is very angry with them. But League will put them out as fast as they can get them in the church. He has destroyed every church he has been over and now he is destroying the HQ church. These people never learn.
ReplyDeleteMy, my, my...such juicy gossip people are throwing out there about the sins of those in Charlotte. I suppose it's not difficult to figure out who the female TV employee is who edits their program. Just watch the credits at the end. I wonder what her sin was? Stealing? Lying? Adultery with a supervisor? Rumors abound and people whisper. I've heard several within the tv department have gone through divorces of late due to adultery.
ReplyDeleteThe reality is, who gives a shit! I personally don't care who lives under a bridge, gets a body massage, or gets disfellowshipped. Get over the bitterness, work out your own salvation and have peace from within. God sees it all and will work it out in the end. Until then, chill out, have a beer, stay away from the guns and enjoy life!
I know that people did admit to an affair and that the female tv department individual mentioned was one of them, it is a fact not gossip. I do agree that everybody needs to forgive and move on but that is easy for me to say, not being directly involved. It is easy to not give a shit when you are not the one going through the shit. I have always felt bad for the brethren who worked at lcg headquarters, it is such an ungodly place and it must be coming down from the top. HWA never wanted Meredith to be in charge of Gods people, he made that very clear. Its interesting that lcg members will praise HWA but will not follow his direct and clear instructions to not follow Meredith. I feel sorry for Mr. Baca and the others who have been through such difficult ordeals at lcg, it is a shame and God will not hold those ministers guiltless, who have created such a horrible environment at their headquarters, just like was at Pasadena during HWAs last years. I do agree though that sins like these being brought to light should not be covered up and lied about, that is a disgrace to lcg and their ministers!
ReplyDelete"...in charge of God's people."
ReplyDeleteOh, brother. Here we go again.
And: HWA's "direct and clear instructions not to follow Meredith"?
I'm reminded of the accuracy of the old taunt, "You're not the boss of me."
Drop the slavishness, folks. Nobody's "in charge." Ministers should serve. They should teach. That's it. And human beings shouldn't follow anyone. Live your life, make your own path.
Leave the presumptuous power-mongers in your rear view mirror.
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ReplyDeleteJust stumbled across this post and it made me remember my years with lcg. Actually I met Thomas Baca at lcg hq in charlotte in 2011... he gave me a personal tour of the tomorrows world tv studio and was very friendly and professional. I have a few close contacts in lcg who work or have worked at their hq and Ive heard first hand accounts of rod meredith's long history of lying. An lcg minister told me that rod meredith was known to be a practicing liar by many. I asked the minister... why do you follow him then? He just smiled and said... it's easier to stay put somewhere once you get comfortable and as long as the lies don't hurt you. We are all creatures of habit I guess. People leave lcg when they know too much to stand it anymore or they were personally hurt by meredith's actions... or some other lcg ministers'. Nuts... just nuts! I left lcg when I too finally had enough of their hypocrisy and arrogance. For those of you still in lcg... your new leader isn't much better than your old one... just saying. Ive been around the cog groups long enough to know far too many things about all the leaders and their real ways. These groups are basically run like religious cults and it's sad that people and families get swallowed up by them... so very sad.
ReplyDeleteI know Thomas Baca II very well, he hasspent the last several years volunteering to help individuals and families suffering from homelessness and many other issues and teaching them about God. He served in Michigan for about 2 years and then continued helping people in Asia. He is a giving and loving man. I have seen him serve others with my own eyes. He is honest and kind. People on this post who commented bad things about Thomas should be ashamed of themselves. He drove people in need of help during Michigan snowstorms during midnight and 3 am to get to their jobs on farms and at dairys. He consuled people wanting to commit suicide and helped them start their lives again. He gave money and care to elderly and widows. He helped people in other countries too. So much to say also but my English is not good enough. Follow link to see video Thomas made to also help a Michigan shelter.
ReplyDeleteHere is that link to the video...
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/D1WNXXenH34
Thomas made it for free to help a Michigan homeless shelter and to help the Michigan community.