Update:
George Witt, the Philadelphia Church of God "minister" that told a PCG family to leave its disabled child at the mall so someone else could take care of it, has died. Good riddance to the man!
One of the reasons he wanted the kid dumped was so the family could send in the money they were spending on their child to the glorious work of Gerald Flurry instead. The depths of depraviltiy in the Church of God has no boundaries.
This story was originally posted June 20, 2013
Just when I think the depth of depravity of Armstrongism can't sink any lower, along comes more horror stories from Gerald Flurry's cult.
PCG Told Me to Get Rid of My Mentally Handicapped Son With Cerebral Palsy:June 17, 2013
I was told by a minister in PCG to "get rid of" my mentally handicapped son (who also had cerebral palsy) or don't return. He told me to put him in some facility, or if I couldn’t afford that, then take him somewhere that he would not know and abandon him in the mall or somewhere that people were. He said someone would find him and put him away, and that I was to turn and not look back, and just leave him there! I guess you can imagine just about what I told them!!
What helped me the most were people having the same objections and questions that I was having, wondering if these ministers in PCG really have the authority they say they did over us. The ministers try to make you feel you're isolated in your thinking, that you're the only one questioning anything. So you better get back under their submission, their rule--or suffer the consequences. (I decided to take the consequences). I am free and I am staying that way.
The ESN has been a Godsend. You have saved many people, including me and my family. We saw how others were questioning things, as we were, and realized things were just not right in there! Our feelings were right; we weren’t as crazy as others trying to pull us back in would have us think. They practice mind control there. All it takes is a few mentioning of buzz-words from them (i. e., "the Work," "the Church," "Mr. Flurry," etc.) and you start to question your own common sense and your sanity. Well, not anymore.
None are so blind as those who will not see. Well, now I see! Thanks for everything. God bless you. --Former PCG member
A comment from a reader here adds to this story:
Reading this story that is exactly what happened to William B. Hinsom. He became a WCG minister in the 1960s. However he had a mentally disabled son. He was advised by people within WCG to leave him in a facility for such people in Franklin, Tennessee. He strongly suspected that his son would die, but he trusted them, he thought the Great Tribulation would soon start in 1972, so reluctantly he agreed. His son died as feared.
Later he left WCG and wrote a book about WCG, Broadway to Armageddon (1977). You can request it from Exit and Support Network.
Naturally Hinsom focuses a lot on the terrible consequences of people following HWA's anti-medicine superstition that he plagiarized from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Congratulations to that brave commenter. No doubt you did the right thing.
This useless PCG minister's advice reminds me of this terrible incident I heard about. There was this man who murdered his wife and then took their eight year old young daughter on a plane and he then abandoned her at an airport. Did not do him much good. The authorities learned what happened and arrested him. He is now deservedly rotting away in jail. I think the PCG minister could have been charged with something serious if his horrific advise was followed.
This is just insane. Whoever the minister was needs to be explosed publically and confronted on this kind of advice.
ReplyDeleteWhen my brother (blind, deaf and cannot speak) was too much for my parents to handle at home because he lit fires etc, they took him to the state hospital which had the facilities to care for him. We visited him every sunday after church. I was five when he went there.
My parents knew many parents who put there kids in the system and then never came back so they started The Sunshine League which worked with parents who did that and encourage them to visit, love and spend time with their handicapped child. They ranged from mildly handicapped to severe. I saw more human deformities by age ten than most see in a lifetime. I know it was a factor in believing being a minister and encouraging to people was the route I should take. I was young of course and idealistic and when I read "the deaf will hear, the blind will see and the lame will leap like a hart" etc, it go to me.
My brother was the first person I anointed alone, just he and me, when I was ordained by WCG. He's still blind, deaf and can't speak..lol. But he did give me that "what the hell are you doing" look when I laid hands on him.
Anyway, I'd like to know who this fool of a minister is
Amazing and sad.
ReplyDeleteThis is Herbert W Armstrong's legacy.
It's amazing that some still follow most of his teachings, and have large portraits of him hanging prominently at their headquarters, as the United Church of God, Living Church of God, Restored Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, and others do.
Just leave him at the mall??
ReplyDeleteThis is a criminal act, and it is called "Child Endangerment"! Under NO circumstances is a parent to abandon a child. In most states, you could not even do that to a dog or a cat, or any pet, let alone a human being.
PCG needs to be reported to the authorities. I hope that the Child Protection Services in whatever state this happened in have been notified about this situation.
PCG is floating on the edge of a lot of criminal activity, including lack of medical treatment and vaccinations for children, denying or attempting to frustrate visitation and contact to grandparents or even ex-spouses. Forced dating of young women to old freaks.
These stories are just a glimpse that has escaped from behind the Iron Curtain of the PCG. Im sure the reality is even far worse in the dungeon of the PCG gulag.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
There was a time when you could be reading a newspaper article about something or someone related to Armstrongism, and suddenly a red flag would be raised because the writer hadn't been completely familiar with the eclectic body of doctrines and had made what amounted to a false accusation. In fairness, when I've encountered such things in the past, a little voice inside me has said, "Hey. No way. That's not what they taught."
ReplyDeleteBut, this is something entirely different. If completely factual, it represents an escalation of an evil progression we have watched. Loving mixed race marriages have been forced into dissolution, and we all know the statistics and personal misery that accompanies divorce, let alone the angst from knowing that the group one looks to for spiritual guidance caused it. Parts of families have been branded as Laodecean, with Philadelphians (which means brotherly love) forced to treat them as if they were Satan himself. Forget for the moment that the doctrine of church eras is an extrabiblical hypothesis. Does Flurry actually believe that this ostrasization would prompt the "Laodeceans" to turn themselves in to him, repent, and join his group?
In the old school WCG, needy people who had come to Armstrongism for healing were sometimes seen as problematic and undesirable. If it appeared that their condition was voluntary, as in the case of "rebellious" teenagers, they were sometimes thrown out of their homes. But, I can't recall anything as bad as these recent events in PCG. The only causative factor that I can come up with is the fact that certain people are so frustrated that the prophecies they based their entire lives upon are not being, and will not be fulfilled, and recalling HWA's incessant rankings about the end not coming because the church is not ready, they are going into the moral equivalent of cannibalism or self-mutilation.
BB
One more thing. I was once close to a long term WCG family in which one of the siblings did suffer from horrible cerebral palsy. That young lady was loved! In fact, if you read some of the materials written on this topic by Christian people, you will always read such things as that God had a special reason for putting their loved one into their lives, or that the afflicted one has a unique personality that brings joy into everyone's life, or that they wouldn't trade their Down's Syndrome child for a "normal" child. Christians, as a group are noteworthy for the compassionate and loving ways in which they care for those who don't meet the norm. Churches have special programs, heck, the secular public schools do also!
ReplyDeleteThe problem here is that Flurry and his brainwashed lackeys are up against a situation where the fact that they do not have all the answers is highlighted and dramatized. Somehow, , in their infinite wisdom, they have arrived at the most reprehensible "solution". Heads up folks! Jonestown was just a mild earthquake drill compared to what Flurry's Philadelphia town is going to be!
BB
It's not just the PCG who "is floating on the edge of a lot of criminal activity"...
ReplyDeleteSo is the United Church of God, Living Church of God, et al.
Just because Ronald Weinland was convicted, it does not mean others are not guilty.
Last Passover at headquarters in OKC Gerald Flurry performed the ceremony. There is an older gentleman that was attending at the time that sometimes yells or makes moaning noises due to a mental condition. This man involuntarily started doing this near the end of the Passover service. Boy oh boy, if looks could kill, old Gerry would have. The look in his eyes were wild. That was one of the tipping points that woke me up so I could get out of PCG.
ReplyDeletemy mother had mental problems and the church made it worse, including saying she was demon possessed. My dad dragged her off to the Feast of Tabernacles one year, rather than leave her alone. All those church people were just too much for her, she disappeared and someone found her later alone on the beach screaming loudly. The ministers said that the whole family should leave right away, so we had to take mom home. It reflected badly on the church, and we were always so concerned with impressing everyone that this was God's way and everyone was perfect and healthy and happy. I think mental illness was the bottom of the barrel of illnesses.
ReplyDeleteOf course children who are not normal are just as bad -- a reflection of sin or whatever.
I know people who work with handicapped children and adults, and in many cases there is not too much good about it, and they are often not the 'sunny blessings of god' that you hear which is too often wishful thinking from those with no experience. Those with the hardest burden are often the parents who still love their children no matter how awkward or embarrassing they are. I would think it is the role of religion to help these people, any religion which doesn't it false and hypocritical.
Anon at 9:21---
ReplyDelete"floating on the edge of a lot of criminal activity...
... is the United Church of God,"
Well if there is any, many others, including myself would love to know.
You have an anonymous and safe vehicle here to present all of your evidence and accusation.
In fact, it would be your DUTY! By withholding such information you would be , a defacto accessory to the crime. Bring it out in the open.
I assure you , that personally, I will NEVER coverup or be an accessory to any church in any illegal activity.
So speak up , or hold your peace.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
Back in WCG they used to say, occassionally, but frequently enough, "It's not just a religion, it's a way of life."
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that made it possible to stay in that environment for as long as I and many others did, was that we were focused inward, believing that the purpose of our presence and experience there was to make ourselves into better people. We viewed the unchristian behavior of others around us as "mistakes," which wasn't necessarily our business and didn't necessarily have to affect us. In short, I believed the propaganda, hook, line, and sinker.
What I didn't recognize was that so often that unchristian behavior was not a mistake, it was the product of the environment. When I was the perpetrator of unchristian behavior, sometimes it was the product of what I brought with me, and sometimes it was also the product of being in that cult environment, however, I was not then in a position to acknowledge the latter. I was not in a position to see that the environment and my experiences in that environment were antithetical to my purposes. While the cult was busy preaching lipservice (propaganda) to one "way of life," it was busy facilitating an opposing "way of life" that was contradictory not only to its lipservice, but also the teachings of Jesus.
Here we see an extreme case of Armstrongism in action. But is not just a "mistake," and it is not at odds with the most fundamental "way of life" that the church is promoting. All it is, is a more extreme expression than usual of the COG's real message. This is the pure, concentrated elixir of Armstrongism, showing what the cult of Armstrong is, and always has been. If the COGs were in any way honest, this is the stuff they would boast about on the front covers of their glossy literature, instead of the propaganda they put there instead. The COGs have NOTHING to do with anything Jesus taught, and they do not exist to facilitate you, dear current COG readers, becoming better people.
You could throw the old catchphrases at me I suppose, and tell yourself that I'm just "bitter." But then, the catchphrases are themselves more propaganda, aren't they? What I am is experienced and honest.
Joe Moeller
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely correct. This is criminal. Charges should be bought against the PCG. Maybe the Edmond press would like this story?
In my work, I go into a wide variety of businesses, one category of which is self help centers. These businesses are involved in what is known as "fulfillment", simple tasks which are performed to prepare products for shipping , for their final destination, or for the end users. This is done by "client-workers", individuals with mental challenges for whom this is an opportunity to do something constructive and meaningful that they would otherwise miss out on due to the nature of their particular challenges.
ReplyDeleteThe first time I went into one of these places, I was royally freaked out. What you normally would encounter upon meeting one person was concentrated, and condensed into a room of perhaps 20-30 individuals. Soon, and I remember their faces and the sounds of their voices, the more outgoing ones would come up, ask me my name, ask what I was doing, ask me to do favors, or just plain chit chat. I found that my new friends would remember my name from visit to visit, even over months.
They did it! They roped me in, put me at ease, and made me their friend. So many stories, and so little space here.
I also got to know some of the people who supervised and administered to them. One such person, Sean, had been a very gifted guitarist, whose band regularly headlined at some of the better known clubs on the Sunset Strip. He loved that lifestyle, but as it does with so many people, it burned him out. In recovering, he found that working with mentally challenged individuals not only provided valuable service to the client workers, but also to himself. Sean introduced me to a number of the workers over the years, and we had a lot of great conversations about music as well. On special occasions, office parties, he would bring in his acoustic guitar and use the universal language to entertain staff and workers. Not that his job was a cake walk, but he loved them.
I have had great difficulty maintaining any kind of Christian attitude towards Gerald Flurry or his church, but these latest reports have made me extremely angry.
I honestly don't believe the man has a soul.
BB
This is no defense of anyone in any COG but I am very knowledgeable about developmental disabilities. Funding has been continuously cut and programs to help parents deal with some very challenging situations are limited and in some instances non-existant. (Thanks to the "Christian" conservatives. Oh how I hate them.) They are all up in arms about unborn babies, but baby, once you give birth to one of those fetuses, you are on your own, baby! If the child is disabled, watch the Republican Christian Conservatives run the other way! A$$Holes! I can kind of see how people might be advised to do exactly what this article is mentioning. That is the only way to get the State to intervene sometimes and offer help. I do know what I am talking about, from very close personal knowledge
ReplyDeleteJoe, I would think you'd realize that "floating on the edge" of criminal activity (as you originally phrased it) is different from being directly involved in criminal activity.
ReplyDeleteMany, many "Christian" and other official/tax-exempt "churches" do so, with lawyers advising them how to not go too far.
Do you really think the ministers who lied, plotted, and connived while planning their break from the WCG while secretly scheming to form the UCG were not "floating on the edge", and had no legal council on how to avoid being being criminally liable for their actions?
Joe, I realize you are a member of the United Church Of Cod, sympathetic and even defensive of them, but please realize you are posting on a blog where the vast majority recognize the UCG as a very questionable armstrongist church, even though you may believe it's the greatest church in the world today.
I'd maybe be more sympathetic toward the UCG, except for the fact that I know people who were dis-fellowshipped during that "secret time" by some of those ministers for believing EXACTLY what those ministers believed then, yet kept secret.(There are a few families I know personally that those [future UCG] ministers wreaked havoc upon during that time, and I'm sure their damage and destruction extended much further than the few examples with which I was personally acquainted.)
To be sure, I do think the UCG is one of the less harmful armstrongist churches, compared to most of the other armstrongist churches that you express your revulsion to on this blog.
As a side note, Joe-
Would you consider the Church of God, a Worldwide Association (with Kilough as president), to maybe be the "second best" church these days, since about half of the UCG ministers moved there? (The way I figure, since the inertia of the present is easier, and change is more difficult, there must have been strong reasons for half of the ministers of the UCG to leave for 'the Church of God, a Worldwide Association'.)
Thanks.
Hi Joe Moeller,
ReplyDeleteYou know, members of cults tend to say stuff like they'd "NEVER coverup or be an accessory to any church in any illegal activity", yet, they do it all the time.
It's sad, but true.
Of course, I'm sure nothing like that ever happens in your cult.
In our state, there is a law that if parents of an unwanted child, up to a certain age (Mostly infants), can leave the baby at the door of a church, fire station, or hospital, the authorities will take that child into custody and into the system with no questions asked, and no legal implications to haunt the parents. This was enacted due to an especially egregious example of human behavior in which a young lady left her newborn child in a dumpster.
ReplyDeleteHowever, even if that is the law in certain states, any minister who would instruct or command one of his parishioners to do that is speaking presumptuously, not for God. With today's modern forensic science, and the DNA identification that many of the ACOGs don't believe in because of British Israelism, it is very likely that under the laws of most states, anyone obeying the Flurry minister's command will be identified and held accountable to the full extent of the law. Child welfare is taken very seriously in most states! IMO, the parents should have told the minister "We ought to obey God rather than man.", and walked away.
BB
To everyone:
ReplyDeleteIn no manner will I defend the UCG as "Heaven on Earth". Some of you want to nominate me as some kind of "apologist" for UCG and every single problem that they may have. People and problems being together is a mathematical certainty!
Where there are people, there will always be problems. There will be nuts, there will be freaks, and there will be politics. This goes for every single organization on the planet, whether they be a political organization, church , or business corporation.
So here is your choice in life... endure some human "BS" and all that comes with it, or live as a hermit. I have taken steps to disengage and finding privacy by living here in Wyoming. It was a great decision. But even then, as I do run a business, I have to now and then deal with the human factor, and it is never fun.
Now, in regards to the UCG, I would say that if you are a Sabbath Keeping , Holy Day observing Christian, that it is the least toxic of any such group that observes such . They will mettle very little, if at all, with your personal life, are not domineering overall, and allow you your personal liberty. Stay out of their hair and they will stay out of yours.
They are not coming out with freaky predictions, downplay or ignore HWA's extra biblical ideas, and are not practicing a "sheriffing" type of management style.
It is a fine place to spend a couple of hours each week. However, true Christianity is not the two hours a week you spend somewhere. It is your own personal relationship with Jesus. The UCG is just an auxiliary to your life. Anyone who is trying to one stop shop life, by being cultish to some organization is not getting it. You must grow to be a stand alone Christian, not dependent on a group or a leader in order to be with God. UCG , to me, is just an aid to my own personal walk with God, and nothing more.
God will not be asking for "membership cards" as evidence of conversion.
If you are a Sabbath keeper, and want some fellowship, then I recommend the UCG. I personally find that I get more from the fellowship than I lose from the occasional problems, disappointments and disillusionments that you will encounter there as well.
There are people who read this blog that belong to some very evil groups. They also will NEVER stop keeping the Sabbath and Holy Days. This being the case, the best place for them , IMHO , is the UCG. I have no shame in saying that, and wish that all those in PCG, or RCG or LCG etc. were at a much healthier place like United.
Do you have a better alternative for a Sabbath Keeping, Holy Day observing Christian? Please tell.
Your Friend,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
ReplyDeleteAnon said:
"It's not just the PCG who "is floating on the edge of a lot of criminal activity"...
So is the United Church of God, Living Church of God, et al.
Just because Ronald Weinland was convicted, it does not mean others are not guilty."
I have read in earlier posts that Districts Attny in locals have been notified, etc. I hope someone is also reporting on GCI, there is a family who has benefited financially from this not for profit as well and very handsomely. Hope someone takes this to task.
Please tell us that Mr. Witt died at a mall! That would be just so poetic!
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, rhe kids in PCG are just a little bit safer tonight. One less sociopath running around in their midst.
BB
I agree with Joe Moeller that, compared to other splinter groups, United is healthier and much less toxic. I left the controlling and abusive splinter group I attended for almost 30 years and started attending with UCG about a year ago. It has been a breath of fresh air!
ReplyDeleteThese splinter groups try to control you by making you feel like they are the only church and you can't go anywhere else. They focus on one little part of the law that makes them unique, and tell you that because other churches don't teach that specific thing, they are not the true church. We tolerated a lot of control, manipulation and abuse. We listened to uninspiring sermons about authority and all the dos and don'ts of the law over and over again. All because we felt we had to because they were the only church with a specific set of doctrines.
I now realize it was all part of the manipulation to keep control of their members. I know now that my personal relationship with God is what is important. I can fellowship with others, and they don't have to agree 100% with everything I believe. (The splinter group said we have to agree 100% with the doctrine and ministerial decisions, or we were disagreeing with Jesus)
I have found United to be not controlling and accepting of those with varying COG beliefs, even those who observe Passover or Pentecost on a different day (as long as they aren't crazy people trying to make everyone agree with them). They keep the law and teach it, but don't make it the number one thing. Instead, in their sermons, they emphasize our personal relationship with God and loving one another.
If you are currently in a splinter group you believe is unhealthy, you are not required by God to stay because they have a certain doctrine! God doesn't want you to be subjected to a controlling or manipulative ministry. That is a sign it is not the true church. Please consider attending church with United Church of God. You will be able to keep the Sabbath and the Holy Days without being abused.
When I was a WWCG member, the ministers 'picked off' church members one at a time with their cultish ploys. One ploy was trying to convince every member that every church member was 'OK' (was childishly obedience, agreed with all church teachings, was worthwhile) except them. They alone were 'broken and needed to be fixed,' the 'I'm OK, you're not OK' life quadrant. The 'I'm OK, you're OK' best seller book was about this point.
ReplyDeleteIn reality, it's the ministers that are 'broken and need to be fixed.'
Joe, we spent 'two hours a seek,' going to church services, and it took decades to shake off the destructive brainwashing. So, no thanks, I'II stay put as a 'independent Christian,' as church going members sneeringly referred to people like myself. It was my observation in the church, that the 'little fish' were left alone by the ministers and envious church troublemakers. But if anyone was devout, or stood out, it was another story.
ReplyDelete"I agree with Joe Moeller that, compared to other splinter groups, United is healthier and much less toxic."
ReplyDeleteCompared to cyanide, ricin is healthier and much less toxic.
The PCG has very high standards for how people should look and behave. Turgeon has no use for the ugly, overweight or disabled. At HQs they put the families in the basement (Turgeon calls it the PCG south) and the disabled and elderly are made to sit high up in the balcony where they can't be seen from the pulpit.
ReplyDeleteThere have been more times than I can count where Turgeon and others will dismiss people if they're disabled. When the Auditorium first opened there was a special section in the front rows for the elderly and those in wheelchairs, but then Turgeon declared from the pulpit that it was too distracting to see the cripples go to and from the restrooms, so now there's a policy where wheelchairs are not even permitted in the seating area! I was shocked when they didn't even allow cripples in the hall to see the flower arrangements during the Feast!
Sure hope Turgeon doesn't ever become a cripple!....
ReplyDeleteAnonymous on July 10, 2016 at 7:48 AM said...
“I have found United to be not controlling and accepting of those with varying COG beliefs, even those who observe Passover or Pentecost on a different day (as long as they aren't crazy people trying to make everyone agree with them). They keep the law and teach it, but don't make it the number one thing. Instead, in their sermons, they emphasize our personal relationship with God and loving one another.”
The problem is that the UCG is accepting of every crazy person with crazy beliefs. This is a sign that there is something seriously wrong with it. The old standard believers are expected to tolerate all the crazies to “show love” to them or else get put out. Crazy people go to the UCG specifically because it does not require them to obey the laws of God. Of course, this does lead to people being abused by the out of control crazies in the UCG. The same old Tkach people are trying the same old Tkach tricks from the past that did not work in the WCG. All the splitting and splintering in the UCG from the beginning was because it was always divided, not because it was full of good.
When you're a member of God's True Church, it's not easy.
ReplyDeleteThey need your money for "THE WORK", so, "what to do?" if a member of your family gets Alzheimer's?
To bring such a person to get medical help can be very costly.
Plus, it's useless.
Better to lock such a person in your basement with minimal care, so you can send those extra dollars in to HQ!
Those who lock their parents in the basement and throw them fish-heads to eat will be given POSITIONS OF POWER in the KINGDOM! (Providing they send the saved money to HQ.)
YHVH can always be counted on for His giving "just rewards"
7.19 AM good post. I experienced 'out of control crazies,' even back in the 1970s and 1980s. They seemed to be protected by the ministers and congregation as a whole. Looking back, they were used by the church as the spear head of conditioning people to accept abuse as normal. This is not so, since everyone has a right to be free from abuse, The church used the crazies as a club against the responsible. I recall several times being criticized by others for avoiding these crazy people. Interestingly, they avoided the crazy people as well, but again, it's one standard for me, and another for thee.
ReplyDeleteMy Mom still attends GCI. For the life of me I can't imagine why because all she does is complain about the minister's sermons, too milquetoast, no verve, passion. I guess she just needs somewhere to go to keep her brownie points to the kingdom accrued. Probably the mentality of most of the hangers on. I was baptized in 1977, stopped attending in 2002, and personally feel my baptism still active. I don't need a mortar and brick building to know that, and I hear about all the "gossip" on blogs such as this. Never been happier.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to clarify what I said (July 10, 7:48 AM) regarding United being "accepting of those with varying COG beliefs...as long as they aren't crazy people trying to make everyone agree with them." I was referring to one specific personality type I've seen in the COG that thinks they are so important and so right about everything that it is their job to convert everyone to believe exactly as them. I think there are a lot of different types of possible "crazies", but the specific type I mentioned is a very likely way to get yourself kicked out of a church (if your beliefs are not the typical teachings of the church). I attended a Protestant church for a little while, and the pastor was accepting of my observing the Sabbath and Holy Days "as long as I didn't go around telling people in the church they had to do it, too."
ReplyDeleteI have experienced years of abuse and lots of crazies during my 30 years in my former very legalistic splinter group. I understand what Anon July 11 @ 7:24 PM means about another type of "crazy" with an abusive personality. The type I was talking about, the one who is vocal about different beliefs, was always kicked out of the splinter group right away...because people had to agree with everything the minister taught or else!
However, that legalistic environment was a magnet for the abusive personality types and the minister did not intervene to correct the abusive people. We were always told how wrong it was to be "offended", but nothing was ever done to stop the abuser from crashing everyone's boundaries.
Thankfully, in my year at United, I have not come across any abusive personality types in my local congregation and ministry. They are all actually really nice, and there is a caring atmosphere. The only negative experience I have had with a person was at the Feast, and it was more snobbishness than abuse. I was with a group and was seated next to someone at dinner I did not know. I tried to make polite conversation with the person and was completely ignored. Oh well. I'm not going to judge them, and I have enough other friends... in the church and out.
I'm a little confused by Anon @ 7:19 AM July 11 saying "Crazy people go to UCG because it does not require them to obey the laws of God." I would be interested in hearing what specific laws are are not being observed that are causing the problem. My former splinter group required everyone to obey the laws, and that did not prevent it from being an abusive atmosphere. Given the choice between a liberal ministry and a legalistic one, I would choose a liberal one. I consider myself to be more of a "moderate", but I can do that on my own. I don't need anyone to "require" or legislate my level of faith or religious observance. After being under the heavy hand of an abusive and controlling legalistic ministry...I would much rather be in UCG where I feel like I can fellowship, yet be free to develop my own personal relationship with God.
reminds me of that richard pryor bit where he mocks a black minister who told those who had handicapped in their familiy not to bring them to his congregation...
ReplyDeleteI have somewhat of a hard time believing a minister of a WWCG splinter group would tell you to leave your disabled child at the mall, but not to hard of a time as to not believe it fully. I have in my own experiences, dealt with a minister of one of these splinter groups, who said some pretty crazy things.
ReplyDeleteI have heard such things as: "My words are the same to God, as his 10 commandments are to him". That statement is in an actual letter addressed to me. I have heard even as of late in one of his sermons, that we as Christians, have the ability to put a curse upon one another, that is if you determine that person is attempting to harm you. I have dozens of these types of statements from him, that are absolutely contrary to what the Bible says, yet people that I know and love, still sit there and drink it in like zombies.
For some reason, after these men become ordained, it goes to their head. They forget that they are to serve, and stick to the Bible only. They begin to trust in their ordination, as if I must be special because I was picked, so I can do or say no wrong. I have seen only who I can count on one hand, a few of who I would call faithful. Yes, they made mistakes humanly, but they preached the word according to the Bible. This is rare indeed.
There is a reason for these types of men in the ministry, but I would not let it cause you to lose heart in what you believe. I found it very hard to hold onto to what I was taught originally when I left the particular splinter group I am referring to. That being said, the truth that I could match up in the Bible, I continue to practice. That which was twisted or assumed in scripture according the ministry, I do not. Keep in mind, Satan will use ministers to pull you away from God also.
Anyways, just my two cents.