Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
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Monday, June 30, 2014
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web Now In Flipbook Format
The historic expose of the Armstrongnite web of corruption, by a former Worldwide Church of God minister, is now in an easy to read online format through Flipbook:
If you still believe in what Armstrong taught you need to read this book. Also the ambassador report is also available online. I believe it is on the Painful Truth web-site.
For those who would like to read David Robinson's 1979 to Herbert Armstrong, telling Herbert Armstrong to disfellowship himself, may read a more clear representation of the letter in this .pdf found in the Appendix.
David Robinson's question to Herbert Armstrong, "Was it the failure of your prophecies?" was a really good question.
I do disagree with his statement that "Acting as if they (the problems) do not exist will not work forever". Of course it's worked forever. People ignore the absolute bottom feeder mental midget Herbert Armstrong was and celebrate that he "taught them the truth". All he did was prove how gullible people are.
Note that "bookmarks" brings up an extended Table of Contents in the flip book.
AmbassadorReports.com also has in flip book format:
Daughter of Babylon by Bruce Renehan;
The Ambassador Reports by John Trechak;
1975 in Prophecy (by you know who);
History of the CoG7 by Ken Durham (CoG7 minister);
Foundation of Sand by Silenced.
More flip books are planned. Some of them may be in PowerPoint format using iSpring Presenter 7 as is "The Spectacular Failure of British Israelism" at BritishIsraelism.com but graphic novel content is out of the question.
By the way, "The Spectacular Failure of British Israelism" uses Donna Kossy as a reference to prove Herbert Armstrong was a kook (and all the rest of the Armstrongists as well).
That moronic book was illustrated with some of the best comical pictures ever. Why church members ever considered Herbvert and authority on sex is appalling. No ministurd has the right to tell members how to have sex.
These are the good old days! This book has been out of print for a long time, and it's good to see it readily available on the internet because people need to read it.
In the early 2,000s, if you wanted to read it, you had to either watch for it on Ebay (it ocassionally and rarely did make an appearance), or you had to go through special channels. I opted for the second. What I ended up with was a photocopy, having promised not to make additional photocopies or disseminate it in any way. I kept that promise, too.
Many church people who hear about the book or read it would no sooner believe bad of HWA than they would of Jesus. Original WCG, and most of the splinters have educated (brainwashed) people to the point where they believe the two are virtually the same entity. In their minds, HWA was a theophany, and was incapable of doing wrong or evil.
Even today, you find ministers who use HWA as their absolute measuring stick, justifying obviously sinful and nonChristian activities, and refusing to repent of them, so long as they could point to HWA as having done them.
What is so freaking maddening that Roderick Meredith and many of the other leading top level leaders knew about the incest and certainly knew all about Herbert Armstrong as a person (how could they not), dealing with him (or working around him in his errors) on a day to day basis.
The most revealing part is that they not only didn't do one thing about it, but they acted as accessories after the fact to continue to support him.
It was shocking to me that David Robinson brought up the fact that many states used to have the death penalty for incest and he cited Texas Law which carried death on the books for incest up through the mid 1950s. If Herbert Armstrong had been caught in his incest and convicted (depending on the state) he would have been executed. If the state did not give him the death penalty and he went to prison as an incestuous pedophile, he would likely have been killed by the other prisoners.
So many who have been involved in Armstrongism seem to pass off all that Herbert Armstrong did, rather casually, essentially giving him a free pass.
It's time for everyone to take a really hard look at a man who had nothing to offer any of us and was corrupt and evil.
This is wonderful. I was lucky enough to read it myself earlier thanks to Exit and Support Network. It is a most stunning book. If you believe HWA was a man sent by God, even if you had moved on from Armstrongism years ago already, you need to read this book.
It, among many other things, reveals the remarkable hold over HWA that Rader had at this time. Somehow that later came to an end in 1981 after this book's publication. As far as I know only the Ambassador Report provides any details regarding the fall of Rader. If they is any other source I am at present unaware of them.
One thing I remember that I had not posted already is how it detailed that some construction were laid off once they had finished constructing a Feast of Tabernacles site.
Also the conversation between David Robinson and HWA in the second to last chapter is absolutely astounding and breath taking. HWA was living in a bizarre fantasy world after having been sheltered in a cocoon of wealth and privileged for many years. A quick summary simply fails to do justice to that remarkable encounter. You just need to read it. Those who read will see just how absurd it is to rely on this extremely privileged and rich man to make your life better.
It may be hard for some people to see but all "the church" (any church) has ever proved was how gullible people are. It's all a "Tangled Web" and always has been.
Christianity was evil from its inception under Constantine's decree. It's all just as evil as islam ever has been. All religions are evil and armstrongism is just one of the most egregious. We now have five damn catholics destroying american democracy and decency by worming their way into control of the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has now become an agency of evil!
Thank you!!! to those who worked to provide TANGLED to a wider audience.
Was especially drawn to read the chapter re: Gerald no-I-really-can't-shut-the-fuck-up Waterhouse. Got to experience him very early in my time w/WCG. My new "church friends" bemusedly reported that, since I sat in the first row, he looked right at me one of the numerous times he spat out, "Get the point?" I nodded, and with some vigor, because I sure wasn't going to admit otherwise. I now see, of course, the whole thing was point-LESS.
A friend of mine, whose life was fully ruined by being in WCG, observed that borderline psychos seemed to show up in local congregations, because there you were accepted, because you realized "the truth" was there, and there alone. Always seemed to be someone behaving according to, "God has given me special inspiration, too!" Translation: "I'm just like HWA -- too bad you aren't." Pastors ought to have just kicked them out, but didn't have reason enough . . . or guts enough.
Waterhouse was this phenomenon on a GLOBAL scale. Much less trouble if they had disowned him . . . but somehow they couldn't.
What does that say about the stability and credibility that, to this day, Armstrong-worshipping groups try to claim?
Never quite understood how and why David's son John, armed with all of the information in his dad's book, went back to the trough in 1981 when AC reopened in Big Sandy. That only lasted a year, of course, before HWA scuttled his butt out of there again. But years later when United was founded John published a newspaper for a couple of years documenting the breakaway movement and was sympathetic to it, even shifting to United himself up until his death.
Also, the stuff about Donald Ward and the Jews is priceless.
I'm with Redfox. Would that I had seen Tangled Web when it was published. It would have saved me a couple of extra decades of silliness.
The Supreme Court of the United States currently consists of six Roman Catholics and three Jews.
The Roman Catholics are Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., and Associate Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony M. Kennedy, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Anthony Alito, Jr., and Sonia Sotomayor.
The Jewish members are Associate Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen G. Breyer, and Elena Kagan.
As is evident by most recent rulings, the makeup is now a 5 to 4 ratio- a right wing majority.
As far as BB's "What have they done?" question goes, I'm sure he realizes the answer is subjective, with individuals having their personal and varying views on recent rulings, depending on what those individuals consider to be reasonable from their points of view.
People who have been involved with the Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia -- particularly those who are still in it -- need to ask themselves some very important questions.
One of those questions is that since Herbert Armstrong could not figure out in 10 years of committing incest during the start of his "ministry" what confidence can anyone have in his doctrines and preachments of morality? If he could not understand in any way that he was doing wrong, why would anyone want to adopt his religion?
He was perverted and corrupt. Beyond that, he had no real sense of right and wrong, simply a superficial knowledge of physical ritual. He was worse off than the Pharisees.
No one should trust one word he says about anything other than how evil and corrupt human nature is; that is the one thing in which he was an expert.
The point can be made that everyone that still believes in Armstrongs religion should read this book and related literature. Even though they may not disown his religion atleast they might learn to follow God instead of men.
If God exists he regards religion as foolishness. The corruption that was systemic in the WCG is only the tip of the iceburg. Even if you have a strong faith in God why belong to any religious organization? Be free.
"The point can be made that everyone that still believes in Armstrongs religion should read this book and related literature. Even though they may not disown his religion at least they might learn to follow God instead of men."
We could take this one step further, and also make the point that Pervert ArmstrWrong wasn't the first person in history to claim titles for himself like that of "apostle" (or prophet, or some other word denoting a messenger or mouthpiece of the gods), but merely one among many, nor will he be the last. Without such people, humanity might encounter odd feelings of awe and wonder when confronting the limits of their knowledge, but they would have no specific "information" about any specific god or gods.
Therefore, the idea that it is possible to "follow God instead of men" is a necessarily mistaken notion. At most it might be possible to follow men as well as "God," but it is impossible to follow "God" without first following men.
Why is it that "the gods," all of them, in all times and all places, have always either had to speak through people or taken the form of people? Why such unanimity among the gods? Why have none ever broken rank and appeared "as is" and spoken for themselves? If the pagan gods did not do so because they did not exist, why does the "real god" behave in exactly the same manner? And why has "belief" without evidence always been put forward as such a virtuous thing? Is it because such evidence has never existed and to make it "virtuous" to put one's brain "on ice" is how "a run on the bank" is prevented?
Was there ever any "gold in Fort Knox," so to speak? Has every such person who has ever claimed to speak on behalf of the gods been just as much of a shyster as Pervert ArmstrWrong (or else even more mentally ill) than he was, and that other men (and women) have been the only ones mankind has ever had to follow?
Follow Pervert ArmstrWrong if you must, or follow what some other person says if you must, but never think you're following a god without first following a man!
Is this flap over the Catholic justices because of the Hobby Lobby decision? Or, is there an ongoing pattern of other decisions. In other words, are we getting a little drizzle here, or is there a stack of mega-storms just off the coast?
If the remarks were over birth control, why should people (be they rich or poor) be forced to participate in activities against which they have moral compunctions? Would we insist that Kosher restaurants serve pork, or that Quakers participate in combat? Our representative republic has always taken moral convictions into consideration in establishing public policy and standards of fairness. If I were Catholic, I probably would be one of the ones who didn't go along with everything the church said, but at the same time, I don't believe we should intrude into peoples' lives in such a way as to force them to commit acts which they consider to be sinful.
What about religious influence? Over the past 20 years, people of conscience and moral conviction have really done a great job of educating the public as to the value of life, soas to minimize infanticide. Back in the 1970s, abortion was widely used as a substitute for birth control. Now, the abortion rate has been greatly diminished. Certainly this would be perhaps the most prominent, shining example of people of faith influencing society towards the high road.
Personally, I believe that those who crafted Obamacare should have stayed away from issues that could be interpreted as social engineering. It was wrong from the start to attempt to force birth control on the many Catholic Christians amongst our citizenry, be they poor and individual, or wealthy, influential corporate types. No crystal balls were needed to know that some sort of confrontation was virtually guaranteed. It is good that our government receive periodic reminders that they cannot run roughshod over the citizenry.
John Robinson - there's a splat from the past! I don't think he inherited integrity from his father.
John was my Journalism professor for a few classes at UTT. I never let him know I had any association with WCG until after he cheated me out of an A in a lab class.
He took an instant dislike to me; I think because we were both competing to make the ladies in the class giggle and squirm. I didn't see John as a worthy opponent and didn't care to morph my writing into his tired non-style style.
To try to embarrass me, John always called on me to answer questions related to his rants. After I'd ask him to repeat the question, because I obviously wasn't paying attention to him, I'd nail the answer because they were all vaguely related to Armstrongism. Thus, John provided the only positive use I can think of for Armstrongism - answering the obtuse questions of a frothing maniac.
The only question I can specifically recall was related to a rant on how the students' knowledge of geography was infantile. He asked me to name five cities in South Africa and then shushed me at some point well after I cited the first five cities, Sadly, I was just recalling the names related to WCG congregations I had read about in the church rag.
Anyway in the lab class, the TA's were supposed to grade the students and the professor would enter the grade. The TA's assured me they gave me an A but, John recorded a D. To confront him, I drove to Big Sandy and spotted him, after church, holding court over a bunch of limp suits. I causally approached the group and inserted myself into the conversation. John's stache nearly twisted off his ghost face as he choked on his tongue. He was too shocked for words when he saw me,his evil student with knowledge of his performance in the real world, within his tidy church world.
I was not aware of the Tangled Web at that time or I would have had too much fun tormenting John with mentions of it in class. And that's the second use for Armstrongism - if you don't think about how pathetic the pastime is, Armstrongites are amusing to toy with.
My bet is that John Robinson knew the truth his father wrote about but, may have preferred the social aspects and minor status he enjoyed inside the cult. With that lack of integrity in mind, John was likely to find his heart at home in UCG!
BB writes, "If the remarks were over birth control, why should people (be they rich or poor) be forced to participate in activities against which they have moral compunctions?"
No employee of Hobby Lobby was going to be forced to practice birth control. Not even condoms, withdrawal or the rhythm method.
and-
"It was wrong from the start to attempt to force birth control on the many Catholic Christians amongst our citizenry, be they poor and individual, or wealthy, influential corporate types. No crystal balls were needed to know that some sort of confrontation was virtually guaranteed."
Again, not a single person- Catholic or otherwise- was going to be forced to practice birth control due to 'Obamacare'.
Yes! It's clear that no crystal balls were needed to know that some sort of confrontation was virtually guaranteed. From before Barack Obama was elected President, republicans made plans to oppose him at every opportunity to cause his efforts to fail should he be elected, even at the expense of the best interests of our citizenry.
The health care reform law of 2006 in Massachusetts (RomneyCare) was less fiscally conservative than the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), yet, after glitches were worked out and early (far-right and lobbyist-promoted) "The sky is falling!" hysteria gave way to reality, it became very popular and appreciated. Heck, a few years ago my sibling's family actually moved BACK to Massachusetts after moving 1,000 miles away, just because of 'RomneyCare'! Here's a couple of links, which hopefully will even bring a smile or two ;-) The second link even mentions a certain real estate property in Big Sandy, Texas, that readers here might have some familiarity with...
I remember descriptions of some of Bill Gothard's 'trainings', and how their young 'trainees' marched in place and shouted immediate and total obedience to their "Christian boot camp drill sergeants" in unison and at the frequency of their boot-stomping. That was at Big Sandy, and those trainings seemed so similar to Hitler Youth trainings.
Nobody is being forced to do anything against their persnal convictions when coverage of birth control is mandated in medical policies. Those people work for their pay and benefits and it's no boss's damn business what they do in their personal lives. You're still hung up on religious god crap, BB. You've become an apologist for nonsense. I don't know why I keep on banging my head against a wall trying to talk sense to some of you. At least, I've come a world away from the nonsense you used to hear me trumpete in New York. You haven;'t!
I just have to add one thing. The Catholic church, hence the Vatican, now rules the United States through five male assholes sitting on the Supreme Court. The lone female catholic has a vestige of a brain left, as did John Kennedy. Prepare for the dark ages of America!
John Robinson was one of those true enigmas in Armstrongism. He could be a huge supporter of some people, and a complete SOB to others. And everybody knew it, even his friends.
I'm not sure the guy was a big HWA fan. But he loved being a gadfly, and he was clearly no fan of the Tkach gang. So he probably delighted in sticking it to those guys after all the splits. It was just his nature.
One thing that may not be recognized today is the importance of religion in the development of a balanced wholeness in the life of a human being. Another subject that is misunderstood is what is defined as prophecy. The recording of biblical prophecy has a greater purpose than those who try to understand it and apply it to the present and future of human life.
I agree that HWA and those who use prophecy and religion as a tool to prove they are God’s elect will be misapplying its purpose and will be contributing to destruction rather than a balanced wholeness in human growth and development.
I do not want generate a lot of controversy, but I believe that religion has contributed to a moral development that humanity needs to form healthy relationships if it is properly used and it appears to me that the world today with all of the technology and methods of communication has gone backward rather forward in achieving the balanced wholeness desired in human growth and development.
I read the book when it first came out and I do not remember all the detail, but I am not a person that spends much time looking backward. I may be disappointed when people fail to live by the moral standards taught in scripture, but am not surprised when deceit is revealed.
I personally try to understand what a person believes and how they live without judging the type of contribution they make in the role of human development and purpose. A Boocher
Wow. Catholics controlling the USA. Isn't that what the idiots taught us was going to be the tribulation? Seriously, Rock Bomb has put influential Catholic business people in a position where they are compelled to either provide or facillitate something which is against some of their most strongly held beliefs. I believe that in reviewing this, any supreme court rooted in the Constitution would have come up with a similar decision, be they religious or non-religious.
A lot of people have a lot of opinions about immigration, and the cultural changes it brings to all of our lives. To maintain a healthy, perpetually growing capitalist economy, you also need population growth. The two go hand in hand. When the birth rate drops in such a system, capitalists are virtually required to make up the difference by bringing in workers from outside the system to fill the void in the birth rate. In this scenario, the people who are concerned with overpopulation and destruction of the continent will lose. The people with the money not only have their Einsteins in think tanks working overtime on various end run strategies, they also have the money to activate their agendas. Are you noticing a large influx of East Indians in the stores and markets of your well to do neighborhood? One of the reasons for that is the drop in birth rate amongst the traditional ethnic and religious groups who founded our country. Last time I checked, these latest immigrants (Hindus and Sikhs) were not exactly of the Catholic persuasion. They are further diluting any Catholic agenda which might be floating around.
I'm no longer preoccupied with or worried about "Catholics". HWA practically based his religion upon fear of Catholics, but that is probably ancient history. While they once sought to be the official religion controlling nations, history and apathy have diminished their influence. Communism has also risen and fallen, fallen because it crushes the human spirit, and just does not work as intended. The only significant group presenting itself as seeking world conquest in the present is the radical Islamic jihadists. Some may not like Christians, but Christians are an important part of the army which will slow or stop the jihad. I would much rather have preservationists of our American Judeo-Christian traditions sitting on the Supreme Court than those who would promote a creeping influence of Sharia law.
Christians, dominant in society, and in the communities in which I lived throughout my lifetime, did not create problems for me, or negatively impact my life. Their basic sense of fairness, justice, and order actually made the prevailing environment in which I reached maturity very salubrious and tolerable. During the atheist phase of my life, that very tolerance actually supported my freedom to be a non-believer. Radical fanaticism, (Armstrongism) did exactly the opposite. Let's not assume that Armstrongism should be lumped in with Christian religions, or that it taught and practised Christian principles. It would be very wrong to hold the teachings of Jesus responsible for Armstrongism's falseness, cruelty, and sins.
Wow. Are Catholics now poor, and without "the money to activate their agendas"?
Oh, those poor Catholics, and their totally "diminished influence" which may still be "floating around"!
Those poor Catholics only comprise 66.6% of the Supreme Court.
Thankfully, I believe my megachurch pastor when he tells me that "creeping Sharia law" is something real and a big threat to the USA- just like a Hobby Lobby employee with a condom is.
Access to those those satanic condoms causees a lack of population growth in the USA which will be be filled with jihadist "anchor babies"!
Anonymous July 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM said, "Access to those those satanic condoms causes a lack of population growth in the USA which will be filled with jihadist "anchor babies"!"
MY COMMENT - Other than the one child I had late in life when I finally got de-programmed, I didn't contribute to US population growth because of the religion I grew up in which preached "time is short" and the Great Tribulation is about to start. No need to plan on having a regular family when Germany bombs the crap out of America! Thanks Mr. Armstrong!
It's not the mega church pastors who are warning about creeping Sharia law. It is constitutionalists, and some of the legal watchdogs. Mega-church pastors with whom I am familiar view incoming Muslims as new people who can be won for Jesus Christ. The Islamic beliefs are outlined in services or special classes, often with the help of former Muslims who are now Christians. Based on these, church members are advised as to how to approach their new Muslim neighbors, eventually leading to them being invited to attend church services.
It should also be noted that in many cases, the people emigrating from the middle east are actually already Christians who were persecuted, and their lives were threatened in their own countries.
Up until the 1960s, Catholics as a group tended to vote for the Democratic party. However, their vote is now considered to be reflective of the nation as a whole. Catholics as a block are considered to be swing voters, though they have aligned themselves with Evangelicals on certain issues. Most tend to be against abortion, and in favor of traditional marriage. However, since 30% of American Catholics are Hispanic, this influences the group's predominant view of immigration issues. 25-30% of Americans are Catholic. At the time of the founding of the USA, that percentage figure was 1%.
We should also note that Justice Sotomayor was selected for the Supreme Court by President Obama. Conservative talk show hosts, at that time of that appointment, were more concerned about the court skewing towards liberal bias, and the Supreme Court being stacked against Conservative principles. Also, don't forget the Jewish justices. At least one Jewish talk show host has difficulty understanding why Jewish people as a group tend towards liberalism, and as has been mentioned, the non-Catholic justices on the Supreme Court are in fact Jewish.
As of right now, the Supreme Court is composed of an amalgam of conservatives, liberals, and swing voters. The problem that I believe some here have is that the swing voters tend to render opinions towards traditional values in cases involving the social issues of our times.
The Catholics are not the huge problem that some seem to be trying to make of them. Obviously, if some of our posters would prefer a trend towards an atheist majority, with belief in God no longer influencing the prevailing US culture, yes, Catholics would tend to slow such a trend. To me, that does not make them the enemy.
It's not the mega church pastors who are warning about creeping Sharia law.
Not all, but many megachurch pastors surely do. And as you say, many other ignorant people do, too.
What would American Christianity be without the hate and fear infused by Christian preachers?
Even you, Byker Bob, have been influenced to the extent that you wrote that you wanted a quick nuclear retaliatory strike in response to the 9/11 attacks- even when the identities of those responsible were not clearly identified.... And your saying that we should take it upon ourselves to make Muslims living in the USA uncomfortable enough to leave. (It's sort of like you Byker Bob taking the "bullying proclivity" you said you once had and wanted to get rid of, and then discovering it's suddenly OK again- as long as it's in the service of your newly-found deity.)
Hobby Lobby's move is nothing but another attack on our black president who doesn't want to give big handouts to large corporations. Hobby Lobby provided this same coverage which they are now against,..... until they decided to drop it to file suit. Also, Hobby Lobby invests in corporations that produce the birth control product which they are ostensibly against. Apparently, two things are KING with Hobby Lobby- * Making money money money, and * Doing ther best to fight a black president- especially one who cares about women's rights
Hobby Lobby sez..."VIAGRA FOR ALL MEN!!!" ... "Screw the women!"
Now, THAT'S what I call "religious freedom"! My megachurch pastor told me so!
I see our little afflicted fellow is back. The one who is preoccupied with buzz words and makes comments about stuff people posted on other forums ten years ago. Weird, man!
When will it be available in POWER POINT format , or in comic book format?
ReplyDeleteIf you still believe in what Armstrong taught you need to read this book. Also the ambassador report is also available online. I believe it is on the Painful Truth web-site.
ReplyDeleteFor those who would like to read David Robinson's 1979 to Herbert Armstrong, telling Herbert Armstrong to disfellowship himself, may read a more clear representation of the letter in this .pdf found in the Appendix.
ReplyDeleteDavid Robinson's question to Herbert Armstrong, "Was it the failure of your prophecies?" was a really good question.
I do disagree with his statement that "Acting as if they (the problems) do not exist will not work forever". Of course it's worked forever. People ignore the absolute bottom feeder mental midget Herbert Armstrong was and celebrate that he "taught them the truth". All he did was prove how gullible people are.
Note that "bookmarks" brings up an extended Table of Contents in the flip book.
Connie: it's already in comic book firm. It's called The Missing Dimension in Sex, illustrated with pictures......
ReplyDeleteAmbassadorReports.com also has in flip book format:
ReplyDeleteDaughter of Babylon by Bruce Renehan;
The Ambassador Reports by John Trechak;
1975 in Prophecy (by you know who);
History of the CoG7 by Ken Durham (CoG7 minister);
Foundation of Sand by Silenced.
More flip books are planned. Some of them may be in PowerPoint format using iSpring Presenter 7 as is "The Spectacular Failure of British Israelism" at BritishIsraelism.com but graphic novel content is out of the question.
By the way, "The Spectacular Failure of British Israelism" uses Donna Kossy as a reference to prove Herbert Armstrong was a kook (and all the rest of the Armstrongists as well).
On second thought, Connie, did you have any particular graphic novel character in mind? The Joker perhaps?
ReplyDeleteThat moronic book was illustrated with some of the best comical pictures ever. Why church members ever considered Herbvert and authority on sex is appalling. No ministurd has the right to tell members how to have sex.
ReplyDeleteWe've been calling Flurry the six-pack prophet.
ReplyDeleteGiven this, perhaps we can start calling Herbie the X-Rated Apostle.
We did, after all, pay $5 million for his divorce.
Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we practice to make flipping books....
ReplyDeleteVeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery Interesting.
ReplyDeleteWhat an old con asshole he was.
Gerald Flurry have you read this??
These are the good old days! This book has been out of print for a long time, and it's good to see it readily available on the internet because people need to read it.
ReplyDeleteIn the early 2,000s, if you wanted to read it, you had to either watch for it on Ebay (it ocassionally and rarely did make an appearance), or you had to go through special channels. I opted for the second. What I ended up with was a photocopy, having promised not to make additional photocopies or disseminate it in any way. I kept that promise, too.
Many church people who hear about the book or read it would no sooner believe bad of HWA than they would of Jesus. Original WCG, and most of the splinters have educated (brainwashed) people to the point where they believe the two are virtually the same entity. In their minds, HWA was a theophany, and was incapable of doing wrong or evil.
Even today, you find ministers who use HWA as their absolute measuring stick, justifying obviously sinful and nonChristian activities, and refusing to repent of them, so long as they could point to HWA as having done them.
BB
Dear EXPCG, they've all read it. All of them.
ReplyDeleteWhat is so freaking maddening that Roderick Meredith and many of the other leading top level leaders knew about the incest and certainly knew all about Herbert Armstrong as a person (how could they not), dealing with him (or working around him in his errors) on a day to day basis.
The most revealing part is that they not only didn't do one thing about it, but they acted as accessories after the fact to continue to support him.
It was shocking to me that David Robinson brought up the fact that many states used to have the death penalty for incest and he cited Texas Law which carried death on the books for incest up through the mid 1950s. If Herbert Armstrong had been caught in his incest and convicted (depending on the state) he would have been executed. If the state did not give him the death penalty and he went to prison as an incestuous pedophile, he would likely have been killed by the other prisoners.
So many who have been involved in Armstrongism seem to pass off all that Herbert Armstrong did, rather casually, essentially giving him a free pass.
It's time for everyone to take a really hard look at a man who had nothing to offer any of us and was corrupt and evil.
This is wonderful. I was lucky enough to read it myself earlier thanks to Exit and Support Network. It is a most stunning book. If you believe HWA was a man sent by God, even if you had moved on from Armstrongism years ago already, you need to read this book.
ReplyDeleteIt, among many other things, reveals the remarkable hold over HWA that Rader had at this time. Somehow that later came to an end in 1981 after this book's publication. As far as I know only the Ambassador Report provides any details regarding the fall of Rader. If they is any other source I am at present unaware of them.
One thing I remember that I had not posted already is how it detailed that some construction were laid off once they had finished constructing a Feast of Tabernacles site.
Also the conversation between David Robinson and HWA in the second to last chapter is absolutely astounding and breath taking. HWA was living in a bizarre fantasy world after having been sheltered in a cocoon of wealth and privileged for many years. A quick summary simply fails to do justice to that remarkable encounter. You just need to read it. Those who read will see just how absurd it is to rely on this extremely privileged and rich man to make your life better.
Black Ops Mikey said...
ReplyDeleteAll he did was prove how gullible people are.
It may be hard for some people to see but all "the church" (any church) has ever proved was how gullible people are. It's all a "Tangled Web" and always has been.
If everything was in PDF we could email it to our friends back in the cults. The trick of course, is to get them to read it.
ReplyDeleteChristianity was evil from its inception under Constantine's decree. It's all just as evil as islam ever has been. All religions are evil and armstrongism is just one of the most egregious. We now have five damn catholics destroying american democracy and decency by worming their way into control of the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has now become an agency of evil!
ReplyDeleteFive Catholics? What have they done? I usually pride myself on being up on current events, but somehow have missed this.
ReplyDeleteBB
Thank you!!! to those who worked to provide TANGLED to a wider audience.
ReplyDeleteWas especially drawn to read the chapter re: Gerald no-I-really-can't-shut-the-fuck-up Waterhouse. Got to experience him very early in my time w/WCG. My new "church friends" bemusedly reported that, since I sat in the first row, he looked right at me one of the numerous times he spat out, "Get the point?" I nodded, and with some vigor, because I sure wasn't going to admit otherwise. I now see, of course, the whole thing was point-LESS.
A friend of mine, whose life was fully ruined by being in WCG, observed that borderline psychos seemed to show up in local congregations, because there you were accepted, because you realized "the truth" was there, and there alone. Always seemed to be someone behaving according to, "God has given me special inspiration, too!" Translation: "I'm just like HWA -- too bad you aren't." Pastors ought to have just kicked them out, but didn't have reason enough . . . or guts enough.
Waterhouse was this phenomenon on a GLOBAL scale. Much less trouble if they had disowned him . . . but somehow they couldn't.
What does that say about the stability and credibility that, to this day, Armstrong-worshipping groups try to claim?
Such a bizarre odyssey, looking back.
ReplyDeleteNever quite understood how and why David's son John, armed with all of the information in his dad's book, went back to the trough in 1981 when AC reopened in Big Sandy. That only lasted a year, of course, before HWA scuttled his butt out of there again. But years later when United was founded John published a newspaper for a couple of years documenting the breakaway movement and was sympathetic to it, even shifting to United himself up until his death.
Also, the stuff about Donald Ward and the Jews is priceless.
I'm with Redfox. Would that I had seen Tangled Web when it was published. It would have saved me a couple of extra decades of silliness.
The Supreme Court of the United States currently consists of six Roman Catholics and three Jews.
ReplyDeleteThe Roman Catholics are Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., and Associate Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony M. Kennedy, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Anthony Alito, Jr., and Sonia Sotomayor.
The Jewish members are Associate Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen G. Breyer, and Elena Kagan.
As is evident by most recent rulings, the makeup is now a 5 to 4 ratio- a right wing majority.
As far as BB's "What have they done?" question goes, I'm sure he realizes the answer is subjective, with individuals having their personal and varying views on recent rulings, depending on what those individuals consider to be reasonable from their points of view.
People who have been involved with the Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia -- particularly those who are still in it -- need to ask themselves some very important questions.
ReplyDeleteOne of those questions is that since Herbert Armstrong could not figure out in 10 years of committing incest during the start of his "ministry" what confidence can anyone have in his doctrines and preachments of morality? If he could not understand in any way that he was doing wrong, why would anyone want to adopt his religion?
He was perverted and corrupt. Beyond that, he had no real sense of right and wrong, simply a superficial knowledge of physical ritual. He was worse off than the Pharisees.
No one should trust one word he says about anything other than how evil and corrupt human nature is; that is the one thing in which he was an expert.
Roman Catholicism has always considered our democracy an enemy. Now, they dictate to it through these blind traitors.
ReplyDeleteThe point can be made that everyone that still believes in Armstrongs religion should read this book and related literature.
ReplyDeleteEven though they may not disown his religion atleast they might learn to follow God instead of men.
If God exists he regards religion as foolishness. The corruption that was systemic in the WCG is only the tip of the iceburg. Even if you have a strong faith in God why belong to any religious organization? Be free.
ReplyDelete"The point can be made that everyone that still believes in Armstrongs religion should read this book and related literature. Even though they may not disown his religion at least they might learn to follow God instead of men."
ReplyDeleteWe could take this one step further, and also make the point that Pervert ArmstrWrong wasn't the first person in history to claim titles for himself like that of "apostle" (or prophet, or some other word denoting a messenger or mouthpiece of the gods), but merely one among many, nor will he be the last. Without such people, humanity might encounter odd feelings of awe and wonder when confronting the limits of their knowledge, but they would have no specific "information" about any specific god or gods.
Therefore, the idea that it is possible to "follow God instead of men" is a necessarily mistaken notion. At most it might be possible to follow men as well as "God," but it is impossible to follow "God" without first following men.
Why is it that "the gods," all of them, in all times and all places, have always either had to speak through people or taken the form of people? Why such unanimity among the gods? Why have none ever broken rank and appeared "as is" and spoken for themselves? If the pagan gods did not do so because they did not exist, why does the "real god" behave in exactly the same manner? And why has "belief" without evidence always been put forward as such a virtuous thing? Is it because such evidence has never existed and to make it "virtuous" to put one's brain "on ice" is how "a run on the bank" is prevented?
Was there ever any "gold in Fort Knox," so to speak? Has every such person who has ever claimed to speak on behalf of the gods been just as much of a shyster as Pervert ArmstrWrong (or else even more mentally ill) than he was, and that other men (and women) have been the only ones mankind has ever had to follow?
Follow Pervert ArmstrWrong if you must, or follow what some other person says if you must, but never think you're following a god without first following a man!
Is this flap over the Catholic justices because of the Hobby Lobby decision? Or, is there an ongoing pattern of other decisions. In other words, are we getting a little drizzle here, or is there a stack of mega-storms just off the coast?
ReplyDeleteIf the remarks were over birth control, why should people (be they rich or poor) be forced to participate in activities against which they have moral compunctions? Would we insist that Kosher restaurants serve pork, or that Quakers participate in combat? Our representative republic has always taken moral convictions into consideration in establishing public policy and standards of fairness. If I were Catholic, I probably would be one of the ones who didn't go along with everything the church said, but at the same time, I don't believe we should intrude into peoples' lives in such a way as to force them to commit acts which they consider to be sinful.
What about religious influence? Over the past 20 years, people of conscience and moral conviction have really done a great job of educating the public as to the value of life, soas to minimize infanticide. Back in the 1970s, abortion was widely used as a substitute for birth control. Now, the abortion rate has been greatly diminished. Certainly this would be perhaps the most prominent, shining example of people of faith influencing society towards the high road.
Personally, I believe that those who crafted Obamacare should have stayed away from issues that could be interpreted as social engineering. It was wrong from the start to attempt to force birth control on the many Catholic Christians amongst our citizenry, be they poor and individual, or wealthy, influential corporate types. No crystal balls were needed to know that some sort of confrontation was virtually guaranteed. It is good that our government receive periodic reminders that they cannot run roughshod over the citizenry.
BB
Anonymous of July 2, 2014 at 6:18 AM,
ReplyDeleteJohn Robinson - there's a splat from the past! I don't think he inherited integrity from his father.
John was my Journalism professor for a few classes at UTT. I never let him know I had any association with WCG until after he cheated me out of an A in a lab class.
He took an instant dislike to me; I think because we were both competing to make the ladies in the class giggle and squirm. I didn't see John as a worthy opponent and didn't care to morph my writing into his tired non-style style.
To try to embarrass me, John always called on me to answer questions related to his rants. After I'd ask him to repeat the question, because I obviously wasn't paying attention to him, I'd nail the answer because they were all vaguely related to Armstrongism. Thus, John provided the only positive use I can think of for Armstrongism - answering the obtuse questions of a frothing maniac.
The only question I can specifically recall was related to a rant on how the students' knowledge of geography was infantile. He asked me to name five cities in South Africa and then shushed me at some point well after I cited the first five cities, Sadly, I was just recalling the names related to WCG congregations I had read about in the church rag.
Anyway in the lab class, the TA's were supposed to grade the students and the professor would enter the grade. The TA's assured me they gave me an A but, John recorded a D. To confront him, I drove to Big Sandy and spotted him, after church, holding court over a bunch of limp suits. I causally approached the group and inserted myself into the conversation. John's stache nearly twisted off his ghost face as he choked on his tongue. He was too shocked for words when he saw me,his evil student with knowledge of his performance in the real world, within his tidy church world.
I was not aware of the Tangled Web at that time or I would have had too much fun tormenting John with mentions of it in class. And that's the second use for Armstrongism - if you don't think about how pathetic the pastime is, Armstrongites are amusing to toy with.
My bet is that John Robinson knew the truth his father wrote about but, may have preferred the social aspects and minor status he enjoyed inside the cult. With that lack of integrity in mind, John was likely to find his heart at home in UCG!
BB writes, "If the remarks were over birth control, why should people (be they rich or poor) be forced to participate in activities against which they have moral compunctions?"
ReplyDeleteNo employee of Hobby Lobby was going to be forced to practice birth control. Not even condoms, withdrawal or the rhythm method.
and-
"It was wrong from the start to attempt to force birth control on the many Catholic Christians amongst our citizenry, be they poor and individual, or wealthy, influential corporate types. No crystal balls were needed to know that some sort of confrontation was virtually guaranteed."
Again, not a single person- Catholic or otherwise- was going to be forced to practice birth control due to 'Obamacare'.
Yes! It's clear that no crystal balls were needed to know that some sort of confrontation was virtually guaranteed.
From before Barack Obama was elected President, republicans made plans to oppose him at every opportunity to cause his efforts to fail should he be elected, even at the expense of the best interests of our citizenry.
The health care reform law of 2006 in Massachusetts (RomneyCare) was less fiscally conservative than the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), yet, after glitches were worked out and early (far-right and lobbyist-promoted) "The sky is falling!" hysteria gave way to reality, it became very popular and appreciated.
Heck, a few years ago my sibling's family actually moved BACK to Massachusetts after moving 1,000 miles away, just because of 'RomneyCare'!
Here's a couple of links, which hopefully will even bring a smile or two ;-)
The second link even mentions a certain real estate property in Big Sandy, Texas, that readers here might have some familiarity with...
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Hobby Lobby (HBO)
MoJo article link
I remember descriptions of some of Bill Gothard's 'trainings', and how their young 'trainees' marched in place and shouted immediate and total obedience to their "Christian boot camp drill sergeants" in unison and at the frequency of their boot-stomping. That was at Big Sandy, and those trainings seemed so similar to Hitler Youth trainings.
Nobody is being forced to do anything against their persnal convictions when coverage of birth control is mandated in medical policies. Those people work for their pay and benefits and it's no boss's damn business what they do in their personal lives. You're still hung up on religious god crap, BB. You've become an apologist for nonsense.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why I keep on banging my head against a wall trying to talk sense to some of you. At least, I've come a world away from the nonsense you used to hear me trumpete in New York. You haven;'t!
I just have to add one thing. The Catholic church, hence the Vatican, now rules the United States through five male assholes sitting on the Supreme Court. The lone female catholic has a vestige of a brain left, as did John Kennedy. Prepare for the dark ages of America!
ReplyDeleteJohn Robinson was one of those true enigmas in Armstrongism. He could be a huge supporter of some people, and a complete SOB to others. And everybody knew it, even his friends.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure the guy was a big HWA fan. But he loved being a gadfly, and he was clearly no fan of the Tkach gang. So he probably delighted in sticking it to those guys after all the splits. It was just his nature.
Personal Thoughts on religious problems
ReplyDeleteOne thing that may not be recognized today is the importance of religion in the development of a balanced wholeness in the life of a human being. Another subject that is misunderstood is what is defined as prophecy. The recording of biblical prophecy has a greater purpose than those who try to understand it and apply it to the present and future of human life.
I agree that HWA and those who use prophecy and religion as a tool to prove they are God’s elect will be misapplying its purpose and will be contributing to destruction rather than a balanced wholeness in human growth and development.
I do not want generate a lot of controversy, but I believe that religion has contributed to a moral development that humanity needs to form healthy relationships if it is properly used and it appears to me that the world today with all of the technology and methods of communication has gone backward rather forward in achieving the balanced wholeness desired in human growth and development.
I read the book when it first came out and I do not remember all the detail, but I am not a person that spends much time looking backward. I may be disappointed when people fail to live by the moral standards taught in scripture, but am not surprised when deceit is revealed.
I personally try to understand what a person believes and how they live without judging the type of contribution they make in the role of human development and purpose.
A Boocher
Wow. Catholics controlling the USA. Isn't that what the idiots taught us was going to be the tribulation? Seriously, Rock Bomb has put influential Catholic business people in a position where they are compelled to either provide or facillitate something which is against some of their most strongly held beliefs. I believe that in reviewing this, any supreme court rooted in the Constitution would have come up with a similar decision, be they religious or non-religious.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people have a lot of opinions about immigration, and the cultural changes it brings to all of our lives. To maintain a healthy, perpetually growing capitalist economy, you also need population growth. The two go hand in hand. When the birth rate drops in such a system, capitalists are virtually required to make up the difference by bringing in workers from outside the system to fill the void in the birth rate. In this scenario, the people who are concerned with overpopulation and destruction of the continent will lose. The people with the money not only have their Einsteins in think tanks working overtime on various end run strategies, they also have the money to activate their agendas. Are you noticing a large influx of East Indians in the stores and markets of your well to do neighborhood? One of the reasons for that is the drop in birth rate amongst the traditional ethnic and religious groups who founded our country. Last time I checked, these latest immigrants (Hindus and Sikhs) were not exactly of the Catholic persuasion. They are further diluting any Catholic agenda which might be floating around.
I'm no longer preoccupied with or worried about "Catholics". HWA practically based his religion upon fear of Catholics, but that is probably ancient history. While they once sought to be the official religion controlling nations, history and apathy have diminished their influence. Communism has also risen and fallen, fallen because it crushes the human spirit, and just does not work as intended. The only significant group presenting itself as seeking world conquest in the present is the radical Islamic jihadists. Some may not like Christians, but Christians are an important part of the army which will slow or stop the jihad. I would much rather have preservationists of our American Judeo-Christian traditions sitting on the Supreme Court than those who would promote a creeping influence of Sharia law.
Christians, dominant in society, and in the communities in which I lived throughout my lifetime, did not create problems for me, or negatively impact my life. Their basic sense of fairness, justice, and order actually made the prevailing environment in which I reached maturity very salubrious and tolerable. During the atheist phase of my life, that very tolerance actually supported my freedom to be a non-believer. Radical fanaticism, (Armstrongism) did exactly the opposite. Let's not assume that Armstrongism should be lumped in with Christian religions, or that it taught and practised Christian principles. It would be very wrong to hold the teachings of Jesus responsible for Armstrongism's falseness, cruelty, and sins.
BB
The thing is...wasn't he having sex with his daughter??
ReplyDeleteBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAHH...
THROW UP!!
People still believe in armstrongs religion. Come-on people. You still hold on to a religion that was started by a pervert?
ReplyDeleteLooks like it has been taken down.
ReplyDeleteWow. Are Catholics now poor, and without "the money to activate their agendas"?
ReplyDeleteOh, those poor Catholics, and their totally "diminished influence" which may still be "floating around"!
Those poor Catholics only comprise 66.6% of the Supreme Court.
Thankfully, I believe my megachurch pastor when he tells me that "creeping Sharia law" is something real and a big threat to the USA- just like a Hobby Lobby employee with a condom is.
Access to those those satanic condoms causees a lack of population growth in the USA which will be be filled with jihadist "anchor babies"!
Anonymous July 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM said, "Access to those those satanic condoms causes a lack of population growth in the USA which will be filled with jihadist "anchor babies"!"
ReplyDeleteMY COMMENT - Other than the one child I had late in life when I finally got de-programmed, I didn't contribute to US population growth because of the religion I grew up in which preached "time is short" and the Great Tribulation is about to start. No need to plan on having a regular family when Germany bombs the crap out of America! Thanks Mr. Armstrong!
Richard
It's not the mega church pastors who are warning about creeping Sharia law. It is constitutionalists, and some of the legal watchdogs. Mega-church pastors with whom I am familiar view incoming Muslims as new people who can be won for Jesus Christ. The Islamic beliefs are outlined in services or special classes, often with the help of former Muslims who are now Christians. Based on these, church members are advised as to how to approach their new Muslim neighbors, eventually leading to them being invited to attend church services.
ReplyDeleteIt should also be noted that in many cases, the people emigrating from the middle east are actually already Christians who were persecuted, and their lives were threatened in their own countries.
Up until the 1960s, Catholics as a group tended to vote for the Democratic party. However, their vote is now considered to be reflective of the nation as a whole. Catholics as a block are considered to be swing voters, though they have aligned themselves with Evangelicals on certain issues. Most tend to be against abortion, and in favor of traditional marriage. However, since 30% of American Catholics are Hispanic, this influences the group's predominant view of immigration issues. 25-30% of Americans are Catholic. At the time of the founding of the USA, that percentage figure was 1%.
We should also note that Justice Sotomayor was selected for the Supreme Court by President Obama. Conservative talk show hosts, at that time of that appointment, were more concerned about the court skewing towards liberal bias, and the Supreme Court being stacked against Conservative principles. Also, don't forget the Jewish justices. At least one Jewish talk show host has difficulty understanding why Jewish people as a group tend towards liberalism, and as has been mentioned, the non-Catholic justices on the Supreme Court are in fact Jewish.
As of right now, the Supreme Court is composed of an amalgam of conservatives, liberals, and swing voters. The problem that I believe some here have is that the swing voters tend to render opinions towards traditional values in cases involving the social issues of our times.
The Catholics are not the huge problem that some seem to be trying to make of them. Obviously, if some of our posters would prefer a trend towards an atheist majority, with belief in God no longer influencing the prevailing US culture, yes, Catholics would tend to slow such a trend. To me, that does not make them the enemy.
BB
It's not the mega church pastors who are warning about creeping Sharia law.
ReplyDeleteNot all, but many megachurch pastors surely do.
And as you say, many other ignorant people do, too.
What would American Christianity be without the hate and fear infused by Christian preachers?
Even you, Byker Bob, have been influenced to the extent that you wrote that you wanted a quick nuclear retaliatory strike in response to the 9/11 attacks- even when the identities of those responsible were not clearly identified....
And your saying that we should take it upon ourselves to make Muslims living in the USA uncomfortable enough to leave. (It's sort of like you Byker Bob taking the "bullying proclivity" you said you once had and wanted to get rid of, and then discovering it's suddenly OK again- as long as it's in the service of your newly-found deity.)
Bullies for Jesus! YAY!!!!!
Hobby Lobby's move is nothing but another attack on our black president who doesn't want to give big handouts to large corporations.
ReplyDeleteHobby Lobby provided this same coverage which they are now against,..... until they decided to drop it to file suit.
Also, Hobby Lobby invests in corporations that produce the birth control product which they are ostensibly against.
Apparently, two things are KING with Hobby Lobby-
* Making money money money, and
* Doing ther best to fight a black president- especially one who cares about women's rights
Hobby Lobby sez..."VIAGRA FOR ALL MEN!!!" ... "Screw the women!"
Now, THAT'S what I call "religious freedom"!
My megachurch pastor told me so!
I see our little afflicted fellow is back. The one who is preoccupied with buzz words and makes comments about stuff people posted on other forums ten years ago. Weird, man!
ReplyDeleteHow can I download this book to read on my tablet or PC?
ReplyDelete