Here is part of a
letter that was on
Exit and Support today. It describes once more the degenerate man/boys who are wrecking havoc in the Philadelphia Church of God. Why members of the PCG continue to let these piles of excrement treat them like shit all the time is beyond me.
I also remember another holy day (the LDUB) when the great PCG
evangelist Wayne Turgeon (who just happens to be married to Gerald
Flurrys daughter) came to Cincinnati to beg for a large holy day
offering. He said he felt "kinda bad" asking young couples with children
and frail seniors on Social Security for more money but "God needs your
support." He also added that if anyone was thinking about being stingy
with offerings to flurry then a nice one way ticket to the tribulation
might be your fate. [Note by ESN: Turgeon's last comment has been added to Amazing Statements Made by Philadelphia Church of God Ministers.]
It takes a man of low character to stand behind the pulpit and extort
money from people they know are the least able to afford it. As they
stand up there, they must have to look into the eyes of young children,
infants, and older folk and know that Gerald Flurry is a fraud
and it is all about the money. Yes, people like Turgeon, Malone,
Davis, Locher and others will threaten "eternal death" and then take
money from the poor sheep and run back to their luxury homes, cars, and
$65,000 a year salaries. Oh and now we may add--nice company Visas.
You are correct in calling Turgeon and the other spawns of Satan in Edmond a man/boy. These guys are all bullies.
ReplyDeleteWayne Turgeon has the "rank" of Evangelist in PCG. He is barely qualified to be a deacon, and clean toilets and puke off the floor.
ReplyDeleteHe surely has been elevated to his highest level of incompetency. I feel sorry for the people in PCG that are too stupid to figure him and that whole mess out!
Turgeon is an obvious result of the "Peter Principle", which is found in virtually ALL hierarchies.
ReplyDeleteThe Peter Principle is the principle that "in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to their level of incompetence".
It was formulated by Dr. Laurence J. Peter and Raymond Hull in their 1969 book The Peter Principle, a humorous treatise which also introduced the "salutary science of hierarchiology", "inadvertently founded" by Peter.
It holds that in a hierarchy, members are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of incompetence"), and there they remain, being unable to earn further promotions.
There is a corollary..
Peter's Corollary states that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out their duties" and adds that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence".
Taking on the name of Philadelphia does not make one a Philadelphian. Anyone can rename himself as a Rockefeller or a Ford and that doesn't give an iota of legal right to a Ford or Rockefeller inheritance. These PCGs are just like these impostors - they are fake Christians and in reality are children of the devil, wolves in sheep clothing. They are impostors of Christian heritage. Christ said that by their fruits you shall know them. Remember, salvation is an issue between the individual and God. No one and no organization stands between us; and Christ is our intercessor, not these fake children of the devil. God has given us an awesome mind and blessed with common sense and very simple instructions (by their fruits you shall know them) to discern the illegitimate and impostors from the real Philadelphians. May I repeat, taking a Philadelphian name doesn't make one a Philadelphian - if ever such classification of Christians exists, it is between God and the individual.
ReplyDeleteOK, "rise to the level of incompetence"?
ReplyDeleteAnd Wayne Turgeon was competent when?
It's pretty clear that he didn't need to 'rise' (in the sense of being leavened) in order to be incompetent -- he managed to be incompetent in place from the very beginning and now has risen in the ranks to have more power to wield his incompetence much more widely.
Sometimes dysfunctional people just don't have any competence at all... ever.
PCG ministers get $65,000 a year?
ReplyDeleteNow PCG revealed recently in the September 2014 issue of The Philadelphia Trumpet that they have 63 ministers. (It seems reasonable to believe this figure may have changed after their improperly observed Feast of Tabernacles.)
If it's true that each minister is paid $65,000 a year then that would suggest that PCG pays $4,095,000 to their 63 ministers. (65,000 x 63.)
And Gerald Flurry revealed in one of his booklets (Colossians) that PCG's annual income in 2012 was $19.5 million.
That is over a fifth of PCG's annual income.
That figure suggests over one-fifth of income goes directly to the minister's pockets.
ReplyDeleteThe world is full of an estimated seven billion people, and they have all sorts of religious beliefs and ideas. A billion Catholics, and their billion Protestant daughters, reject and disobey God by claiming that His laws were actually very bad and are now thankfully done away with (replacing God's Sabbath with Sunday). A billion Muslims reject and disobey God by pretending that all the craziness and evil that they like to do to others is being done to what they call infidels for someone they call Allah (replacing God's Sabbath with Friday). Those of the Evilutionary religion reject and disobey God by pretending that He does not exist and that they were descended from monkeys, so it is ok for them to act like animals, or worse (replacing God's Sabbath with being on call 24/7/365). Many other people think they have found many other ingenious ways and means of rejecting and disobeying God (replacing God's Sabbath with some other day, or supposedly with every day, or even saying that Jesus is the Sabbath). Many people on earth could, in fact, honestly claim that they had never even heard of God and His ways. It is as if some ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, has deceived the whole world!!! And so, the world is full of what the Bible calls sin and evil.
The approximately five thousand ignorant sinners in the PCG are significant only because they are such a relatively large blight on the relatively small COG scene. They falsely claim to obey God while doing all sorts of evil in God's name and calling it God's form of government (replacing God's Sabbath of rest with requirements to drive long distances to attend their satanic cult meetings regularly or else get expelled, even if the reason someone cannot attend is because they are dying of cancer). They paint a bleak and terrifying and discouraging picture of the future by making it sound like more of the harsh, cruel, abusive, unjust tyranny of Satan that the PCG practices is all there is to look forward to in the millennium. But Gerald Flurry is a false prophet and his PCG is an impostor church. This is significant. This is why things will tend to go badly for those in the PCG.
While it is true that the PCG does lie and deceive and steal and harm, most of the decent people who got ensnared by it either left or got expelled long ago. Of an estimated fifteen thousand people who tried the PCG over the years, only about five thousand of them are still there. They tend to be the ignorant people who do not even know or care what HWA had really taught back in the WCG, those too stupid and lazy to investigate any matter at all, selfish old sex predators looking for more people to use and abuse, cowards who fear the future and don't want to fry in the trib., power-hungry abusers who finally get to rule over others even though they are totally unfit for the job, and various other rotten scoundrels. In some sense, it all sort of works itself out, as the evil people who go to that evil organization to support evil and to do evil to others often get the evil that they themselves deserve for their own evil behavior. Those who practice sexual immorality are not innocent. Those who dishonor their own parents (and grandparents and children and grandchildren) are not innocent. People who do evil and who support evil are not innocent. The accomplices of a false prophet like Gerald Flurry are not innocent.
Sure, there will be a few, like Dennis, for whom this was not so. Square pegs in round holes. But the average Armstrongite minister was and is a "round" peg, like Herbert, the hole-maker was and conditioned others to be. To be a "round" peg is to be of low character. Because of Herbert's bluster about "character" being "knowing the difference between right and wrong and choosing to do right," he really left himself without excuse. He can't say he didn't know the difference between right and wrong, but we can say definitively that he continually chose to do what he knew was wrong. All of Herbert's mini-me impersonators and their mini-mini-me minions like Wayne Turgeon, are at this point also without excuse.
ReplyDeleteAnon 11-11-14 8:35 PM wrote:
ReplyDelete"A billion Muslims reject and disobey God by pretending that all the craziness and evil that they like to do to others is being done to what they call infidels for someone they call Allah (replacing God's Sabbath with Friday)."
I've got news for you. There are thousands of religious traditions, each of which is "backed up" by special revelation from a god (or gods). Therefore, there are no properly basic grounds for you to assert your religious beliefs as being any more primary or authoritative than anyone else's.
You could say that given your upbringing and membership in a certain tradition, the testimony of fellow believers provides a ground for properly basic belief; however the same is true of members of other faith communities: a Muslim, a Hindu, or even a Scientologist one an equally valid basis rejects the testimony your accept, and so for them it provides no such grounds for reasonable belief. Vice versa, their testimony cannot compel you to believe them from where you currently stand.
You can try to undermine other faith traditions as unreliable due to something allegedly uniquely remarkable about their religion (i.e., that the origin of the Koran is so remarkable that the only reasonable explanation is that Allah directly revealed himself to Muhammad; the fact that multiple people with no reason to lie claimed to have seen a risen Jesus demonstrates that the resurrection must have happened, etc.). I hope you can understand why this is nothing short of hubris, and furthermore, founded squarely upon the fallacy of special pleading.
My guess is that Anon 8:35 is a UCG member.
ReplyDeleteThe UCG wants it both ways. If a little law is better then a lot of law then what the WCG/GCI teaches would be even better. Or if you take it the other way. If a little law is better then no law then what the PCG teaches is even better.
When you really think about it you can't have legalism both ways.
Yea, Wayne made a special point to announce he was a close friend of Brian Davis once in a lecture. I remember this all too well. Any good I thought of Wayne went out the door right then. It made me wonder WHY was he saying this?? It did him no good in my eyes...
ReplyDeleteThe righteous should choose his friends carefully,
For the way of the wicked leads them astray. Proverbs 12:26
But I now realize they're ALL wicked!
The all in cost for an employee is much higher than just their salary.
ReplyDeleteIf you count health care cost, workers compensation cost, and a likely 2T contribution, as well as housing allowances, phone, computer and car stipends, it is more likely that a PCG ministers total benefit and salary package is something more like $100k.
Thus it would be $6.3 million dedicated to salaries, about one third of the PCG budget.
This is a typical percentage that ALL churches give ministers regardless of denomination, Protestant etc. Here is a chart that shows the breakdown average for all churches based on a large survey of multiple denominations...
https://www.eccu.org/resources/advisorypanel/2013/surveyreports20
Wow, Anon 8:35, that wordplay was almost Britcom-worthy.
ReplyDeleteTurgeon is a lying piece of turd.
ReplyDeleteDo research on bullies and you will learn a lot about the PCG ministry.
Hey Red Fox: Most of their ministers are probably local elders who don't get paid. But then there are all the airheads working in Edmond who suck the members wallets dry.
ReplyDelete"Many people on Earth could honestly claim to have never heard of God and His ways..."
ReplyDeleteIf that isnt a testimony to the FAILURE of the so called "true church", I dont know what is!
What? Did Anon 8:35 actually call out PCGers for being sexual predators in the very same sentence in which he/she inveighed "what HWA really taught," while simultaneously describing those people of being "too stupid and lazy to investigate any matter at all?"
ReplyDeleteMind-boggling myopia, that.
ReplyDelete------------
Comment #001 said... ”I hope you can understand why this is nothing short of hubris, and furthermore, founded squarely upon the fallacy of special pleading.”
The point is that for one reason or another the world simply does not obey God's laws as written in the Bible, and this even includes a couple billion professing Christians who like to imagine that they got their religions from the Bible. It is very strange that a couple billion professing Christians would hate God's ways so much and basically make it their mission to teach everyone against them. One might naturally expect that such people would have called themselves Pagans since they love and observe all the pagan customs and ways.
------------
Comment #002 said... ”My guess is that Anon 8:35 is a UCG member.”
Wrong.
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Comment #003 said... ”Wow, Anon 8:35, that wordplay was almost Britcom-worthy”
Whatever that means.
------------
Comment #004 said... ”If that isnt a testimony to the FAILURE of the so called "true church", I dont know what is!”
HWA taught that God was not calling everyone now in this age, and that the world is currently cut off from God except for the few people that He chooses to call now, and that when God's time to call everyone finally comes He will then do it.
------------
Comment #005 said... ”What? Did Anon 8:35 actually call out PCGers for being sexual predators in the very same sentence in which he/she inveighed 'what HWA really taught,' while simultaneously describing those people of being 'too stupid and lazy to investigate any matter at all?'”
The point is that GRF claims to be faithfully holding fast to everything that HWA taught even while GRF makes major doctrinal changes to what HWA taught and then even edits HWA's writings to cover up the matter. Even worse, GRF also claims to be following God even while he disobeys God's laws and forces his followers to do the same.
------------
Talk is cheap. Only a man whose walk matches his talk is worthy of being "followed."
ReplyDeleteWho cares how eloquent the teachings of any man might be if he's also fucking his daughter. If you get right down to brass tacks, you're not really following HWA unless you're all starting your own individual churches while fucking your children. Who cares what the man may have merely said this was the example he set, which HWA's god obviously expects you to follow. Sound good to you, Anon 8:35? Wouldn't want to let down the ol' deity, now would you?
Only people who are too stupid, or too lazy, or perhaps too indoctrinated (stupid is as stupid does) and therefore don't investigate HWA can at this point fail to realize that HWA was himself a sexual predator.
Just WOW Anon 8:35. Way to miss the point!
ReplyDelete"HWA taught that God was not calling everyone now in this age, and that the world is currently cut off from God except for the few people that He chooses to call now, and that when God's time to call everyone finally comes He will then do it."
ReplyDeleteYou are making excuses. He claimed the "true gospel" had now been preached around the world. If "most people" haven't heard of it, then it hasn't been preached around the world and has been ineffective.
The point is that for one reason or another the world simply does not obey God's laws as written in the Bible
ReplyDeleteGot that right.
Especially the Cult of Herbert Armstrong Mafia who are openly false prophets and the Bible just as openly condemns them.
Do we need a list? You know, like Roderick Meredith, Gerald Flurry, David Pack, Ronald Weinland....
Absolutely will NOT obey God. Ever. They just keep spouting insulting kook rubbish based on the original dead false prophet, Herbert Armstrong.
Think you've taken the moral high ground, do you?
You're in the pit.
It's filled with crap.
It's a cesspool.
I love how Anon 8:35 / 7:24 explains for everyone "what HWA taught" and, in typical COG arrogance, points out the alleged errors of "professing Christians" who "hate God's ways," and claims "the world is currently cut off from God" (a premise that is in total opposition to what Jesus taught) -- as if we haven't heard it all before.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, Anon, we left all that infantile thinking behind. Regarding HWA's sexually predatory actions, as verified online by two family members along with other testimonies, what more do you need to be persuaded to get off your high horse and look at the world through something other than HWA's errant theological prism? You come across as someone who has buried your head in the sand, yet takes delight in pointing out the presumed errors of...well, pretty much everybody else in the world.
Sorry, but that dog won't hunt. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go try to determine once and for all whether the United States, with its surging populations of Latinos, Asians, and Africans, is actually Manasseh or Ephriam.
ReplyDelete"You come across as someone who has buried your head in the sand, yet takes delight in pointing out the presumed errors of...well, pretty much everybody else in the world."
It has been said that while you cannot please everyone, it IS possible to make them all mad at the same time.
It sounds like the demons have been stirred up and have become agitated. What was that Psalm that said "the heathen raged"?
ReplyDelete"Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go try to determine once and for all whether the United States, with its surging populations of Latinos, Asians, and Africans, is actually Manasseh or Ephriam."
Oh, I know the answer. Ask me. Ask me!
HWA taught that the USA was descended from Manasseh and that Britain was descended from Ephraim, so of course some rebels now just have to say that it was the other way around, just to disagree with him.
All those non-Israelite foreigners currently flooding the USA, Canada, Britain, etc. will be needed soon to carry out that Curse For Disobedience that says, “The alien who lives among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower” (Deuteronomy 28:43, NIV). Think about it.
"It sounds like the demons have been stirred up and have become agitated."
ReplyDeleteYou credit us far too much. But then again, Armstrongism is well known for stopping its ears and squawking "Sataaaaan" in best Dana Carvey style. :)
Anon at 5:12. You are so correct. Satan is stirred up now and is using ever means to attack God's church. They have to attack God's servants here because that is what Satan and his demons are influencing them to do. They will be held accountable for their lies!
ReplyDeleteYes, I do read this blog because we are instructed to be wary of Satan and his influence. It keeps me on guard for the types of attacks we are being subjected to.
Now the PCG is Gods servants? Oh, dear...
DeleteAnon 8:35/7:24 and apologist for the sick and disgusting cult of the incestuous molester Pervert Harmstrong-
ReplyDeleteIt may be too late for you. Your indoctrination will likely be with you to the grave. We will never change your mind. Thankfully we don't have to, as hoping things are true does not make them come to pass. Reality is something that cannot be averted by all your make-believe wishful thinking.
And reality is, the Jews are Canaanites as archaeology disproves Genesis and Exodus, and the Jewish god el/elohim is a pagan Canaanite deity. The "old testament" was written during the so-called "intertestamental period." There is no sign of the old testament written on clay tablets in cuneiform script, as would be the case if the "old testament" was as old as b'leevers think it "must" be.
Reality is, christianity is the invention of highly educated Hellenized Jewish philosophers who spoke Greek and were trained in the Greek skills of argumentation and debate, such as Philo of Alexandria, whose "Logos" that predates christianity, but figures into the christology of John and Hebrews, conclusively proves. Christianity is merely the 1st-century synchretism of pagan Hellenism and pagan Canaanite religion. Smile, you're just as much of a "heathen" as anyone else on the planet!
Reality is, the "god" of Judaism, the "god" of christianity, and therefore the "god" also of Pervert Armstrong, was invented by men out of the tapestries of many pagan gods. Therefore, after you die, your "god" will ultimately fail you. But you will never know it.
Reality will come to pass, and it doesn't care if you're not capable of figuring out what it is, or that you're not conscious to be surprised when it isn't what you bet the farm on.
Sayonara, you poor deluded chump.
Uh, isn't this what hell is supposed to be like? Constant oppression and torture, perpetrated by diabolical beings in charge? Ah, yes. The fruits of Armstrongism are still alive and well!
ReplyDeleteBB
Anon 8:35/7:24 - Your comments reflect a lack of understanding about history, the Bible, and other denominations and religions. For example, you and I owe a debt of gratitude to the Catholic Fathers and bishops who preserved and authorized the Canon. That is why you assume extracanonical texts like the Shepherd of Hermas (popular in the early church)do not belong in the Bible. Your misgivings about other denominations are just because of the influences of a tiny, extreme Protestant sects over time, like it or not. It's no secret, HWA did not come up with original ideas. He borrowed from other small organizations with their outlandish theories. He was just a really good marketer. For another example, as someone here previously stated, Old Testament stories don't exactly square with archaeology. I am still a Christian (though not your flavor) however, but I do not need to be so dogmatic about every possible thing. Consider that.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine why anyone would think that HWA's bogus, failed, end-times prophecy mold could be "corrected" just by switching the roles of Manasseh and Ephraim.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who understands history realizes that both England, and the USA were melting pots from the very beginning. The colonizing of what we now call the USA was not in any way similar to mass migrations of, say, Armenian people, or Jewish people who maintained themselves as ethnically intact groups for centuries. Colonists from England, France, Germany, Spain, and Italy all came to the new magic land in the 1600's, purchasing some Africans along the way, and settling in amongst the already present Natives.
Anyone who understands genetics realizes that in this hodge podge or gumbo stew, there is a greater preponderance of (gasp!) German genes amongst a representative cross section of American citizens today, greater than the percentage of Anglo or English genes. Further, the British Royal family is actually German, a fact formerly well known, but obscured for the benefit of folks living today by King George V who changed the family name to Windsor in 1917 to combat any anti-German sentiments triggered by WW I.
Racial intermarriage has been fairly common in the USA since the late 1970s. I mean, that's when I did it for the first time. The kids who were born during that era are actually in their late 30s today. The era of the hypothetical strangers amongst us rising up to oppress Anglo peoples largely passed into the realm of impossibility at that point. "They" can't very well rise up to oppress us if they are us, our own family members! And, of course, though it took a bit longer, people of other races finally started saying "yes" to African Americans bigtime around the late '80s.
It's like some of us have been saying all along: Armstrongism's time and date stamp expired literally decades ago.
BB
ReplyDelete"HWA did not come up with original ideas."
Of course not!
This has become a fairly common complaint of some silly people, who got into the bad habit of unthinkingly repeating it over and over until they fell for it themselves. It is continually brought up by all the usual suspects, even though it makes no sense at all, just like those so-called Pentecostal types and their gibberish. Why should anyone ever have to come up with new, different, never-before-heard-of ideas all the time? This is what some of the doctrinally unsound rebels in the WCG wanted to come up with--but all any of them have ever come up with is the same old unoriginal heresies.
If God exists, and if the Bible is His inspired word, then the same old plain truth should have been out there all along. HWA was merely teaching it more openly once again—some would say restoring it. He was merely repeating what had always been there from thousands of years ago. Of course HWA was not coming up with new, different, original teachings that had never before been heard of by anyone ever before. God is called the Eternal. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The truth of God is not a series of changing, passing fads.
For example, HWA got the teaching about the biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath of rest from the Bible. HWA most certainly did not make it up himself. If HWA had been the first person ever to come up with that idea in all of human history, then I would agree that maybe people should be wary of it. But the only reason that God's Sabbath seems strange, and different, and even weird to some people is that their own churches have never taught them biblical things, but rather church customs and traditions that came from unbiblical sources.
The Catholic church is not exactly original with its teachings, having adopted them from paganism. The Protestant churches are not exactly original with their teachings either, having learned them from their Catholic mother church. And HWA was not original with his ideas either, having got them from the Bible.
The Bible even warned, in the New Testament, that the time would come when people would not endure sound doctrine, but would turn away from the truth and turn aside to myths--having itching ears, like those doctrinally unsound rebels who plague the COG scene today, and always wanting something new, and different, and supposedly original.
This is interesting. There appears to be a significant upswing in people posting here in defense of HWA and the COGs.
ReplyDeleteIt's a start. Welcome, welcome, welcome. You're on your way to a better state of mind.
Promoting incest and heresy is a better state of mind?
ReplyDeleteJerusalem, I think we've got a problem!
~Miguel de la Rodente
HWA got the bulk of his understandings from the COG 7th Day and other adventist movement ministers such as GG Ruppert.
ReplyDeleteUS and BC came from JH Allen and his book.
HWA was not exactly original in any sense. He was however was unique is forming a Sabbatarian Hierarchy and centralization that revolved around him and his persona and his "specialness".
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSorry, 11:13 -- I meant that the COGers are on their way to a better state of mind, once they get over themselves and their corrupt hero.
ReplyDelete