Let me start by telling you a little about us. My husband, Patrick, is truly one of the most loving, kind, generous and God-fearing men I have ever known in my life. He has never met a stranger and would do just about anything to help just about anyone. He's the type of person who always sees the best in everyone and keeps a positive outlook no matter how grim a situation is because of his profound faith in God.
Patrick was a member of a small church called the Living Church of God (LCG) when I met him. LCG is a splinter of a larger church that was called the Worldwide Church of God which was led by Hebert W. Armstrong. Patrick's parents dedicated their lives to the church and Patrick followed in their footsteps. He made generous financial contributions, volunteered at youth camps, helped elderly church members and widows, etc. When LCG moved its world headquarters to Charlotte, we sold our Kansas City home and moved there too. In short, we served LCG's ministers and members to the best of our ability for years.
In September of 2014 a blogger wrote some unflattering things about LCG on his website. LCG assumed that Patrick was the source of information because of his close connections with the minister in question, and then decided to "mark" both of us from the pulpit a few short days later in front of our congregation of over 250 people.
"Marking" in LCG is similar to shunning in Amish communities. Being marked means that we are of such a vile and loathsome nature that we are considered enemies of Israel, enemies of the church, cast to Satan, beyond salvation. We were never counselled; just cast out without question. Church members are to shun those that are marked. To not participate in shunning a marked member is akin to making the conscious decision to disobey church ministry and in so doing risk your very salvation.
With one fail swoop and on completely false accusations we lost every friend we had. We lost our church. Our children no longer had any friends (they are home schooled). We were cast out into the cold to wither and die. The heartache caused from such a profound loss was so great that we, in fact, felt like we were going to die.
We contacted the blogger who promptly emailed LCG and posted a statement on his website stating that we were not the source of his information but the church refused to clear our names.
We spent an entire year calling, writing, shamelessly begging and pleading for LCG to meet with us as Christians to try to work things out. We were desperate. But it was all to no avail.
Instead the church propagated more lies about us and spred them through whispering campaigns. They had to do as much damage to our reputations as possible to justify their completely un-Christ-like treatment of us to their members. Especially when our reputations were that of generous, devoted, serving members who were well liked in congregations across the US and internationally.
The Living Church of God continued to defame our character for over a year. After making many, many, many attempts to get them to work together toward peaceful resolution with no success, we initiated a lawsuit against them for Defamation of Character and Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. We want to restore our good family name and show LCG that it is not okay to use their power to bully their members.
They have hired a powerful and expensive law firm to fight us. While they have a huge pool of tithe-payer funded cash to pay their legal fees, we do not. We have opened this GoFundMe account in hopes that people will help us fight for justice. All money raised will go to pay our legal fees. If any should remain, we will donate it to St. Jude's Research Center.
Please help if you can. We are most grateful for any assistance! The WCG and the LCG have left many hurt, broken, bullied and abused members in their wake. Most felt they were defenseless and did nothing. We seek justice both for ourselves and for the many others whose lives have been negatively impacted by these organizations.
If you desire to donate to fight Rod Meredith then please go here: Religious Persecution (LCG)
Being disfellowshipped and marked and condemned to Eternal Death for what some commenter (not them) wrote on a blog?
ReplyDeleteGuess that everyone here who posts on BANNED, (who are obviously much more wicked), can look forward to, is an eternity in blazing fire, covered in molten glass, standing in a sea of liquified cow manure, with mass insects eating at your eyes, and having to listen to PURPLE HYMNAL music for all eternity.
You have been warned... DO NOT POST HERE OR ELSE!
Is anybody else thinking that maybe the Scarboroughs could use some help from us? We know they will remain in Armstrongism anyway, but maybe we could help send a message that makes conditions a little less bad, makes "leaders" think twice about abusing the sheep?
ReplyDeleteBB
I had a even worse experience in the old WCG. A minister made a poison tongue attack against me. My 'crime' was passing moral judgment by complaining about unruly church members. The consequence was that church members were afraid to be seen with me, least it hurt their social standing. Feast days when people went to restaurants, I use to park my car in side streets, since no one wanted to be seen with me. From what I can discern, this lie will follow me for all eternity. The Scarborough are getting off light.
ReplyDeleteI thought lawyers didn't charge an hourly fee but only accept a percentage of what is awarded to the plaintiff.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @ March 2, 2016 at 10:20 AM said...
ReplyDeleteI thought lawyers didn't charge an hourly fee but only accept a percentage of what is awarded to the plaintiff.
Answer: That's a common agreement, although it's also not unusual to agree, contractually, to an hourly fee.
Does anyone know what blog Mrs Scarborough is referring to from September 2014?
ReplyDeleteGiving money to the Scarborough is like giving money to someone who has been released from jail and who wants to go back voluntarily to prison (the same one or another prison)!!!
ReplyDeleteTHE CONNIE SCHMIDT COUNTER PROTEST MOVEMENT...
ReplyDeleteFor all those reading this that attend LCG and are in horror over this situation, here is the plan to make your voice known in a discrete and private way.
During the upcoming Holy Days, acquire a second envelope and place just ONE PENNY in it. (You can still use your own preprinted envelope for your regular offering).
List on the envelope the following donor information:
CONNIE SCHMIDT
PO BOX 3568
NEW LONDON , NH 03257
Then discretely put the offering in the basket along with your regular one.
Do not put in anything else other than JUST ONE PENNY. The processing alone will drive LCG nuts and will send a discrete message to HQ that the Scarborough situation and suffering is RIDICULOUS!
EVERY OFFERING WITH JUST ONE PENNY IN IT IS A MESSAGE TO LCG AND MEREDITH IN SYMPATHY FOR THE SCARBOROUGHS!
Only personal injury attorneys work on contingency. No lawyer in his right mind would take this case on contingency. It's could be months of time consuming work with the potential for no reward. Too much risk. If I were their lawyer I wouldn't even consider it. Some lawyers will agree to a cap of $10-15K in fees after which a contingency would kick in but it's still not likely in a messy case like this that could last well over a year and will end up in the hands of a jury and also like tend up in appeal.
ReplyDeleteHaving known the Scarborough family for 40 + years, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of their collective and perceived, never failing allegiance to the Church of God and the current situation with Patrick and his current wife. In truth, almost every one of the 12 children within the family have come and gone and come back from the church environment, even though they now want people to think they all represent a united front that has always supported; all things HWA.
ReplyDeletePatrick has not always been the good church going individual that his current wife now portrays. When I say current, this leads to a little of his past, where his wealth came into play after a horrific accident happened, leaving his first wife in very bad health. Due to a major insurance judgment in their favor, Patrick and his wife became instant millionaires, living the great life, but they were not the wonderful church of God members at the time now being portrayed. Just as many of his siblings had, they sowed wild, but in his case, expensive oats, even though most of them eventually became prodigal children who eventually came back to the church.
It was only after Patrick’s first wife died, that he eventually came back to church. One thing that is true about the Scarborough family is they have often given much to the church over the years, in both time and resources, which is how Patrick likely ended up in Charlotte, fashioning his initial job as the feast coordinator, prior to Jim Meredith taking his place.
Perhaps, where Jim got his taste for the good life, aside from his father, came from Patrick’s example, who was known as someone who couldn’t really relate to the average church member’s plight, often finding feast locations that were high brow in cost and status, but that also met Patrick’s lifestyle. Obviously, LCG saw him as a cash cow, so while he was in their good graces, everything was great, but it makes you wonder why the shine now comes off his halo with the LCG brass.
I rather doubt that they have spent all their millions yet, even though I’ve heard stories that he did make some pretty heady extravagant lifestyle choices over the years. Truthfully, if they weren’t in the current situation being on the outside, they wouldn’t give this blog a second thought, other than to condemn it. Also, the plea for money seems almost laughable, when they too still live pretty well, perhaps mirroring those they now want to make pay.
Obviously everyone is free to give them money, but don’t think for a minute that they would be here if they thought they had any chance to gain favor again and regain some type of lofty place in the equation.
Has Meredith even admitted to LCG that the litigation exists yet?
ReplyDeleteAren't the Scarboroughs very wealthy because of Patrick's personal injury settlement? I was told the whole reason Meredith wanted Patrick in Charlotte was to get access to his millions of dollars, and that their falling-out came when Patrick wouldn't give Meredith more than the typical 30 percent tithes and offerings. As wealthy as the Scarboroughs are, it seems really inappropriate that they're asking poorer people to support their lawsuit. It seems they learned something from their former mentor Meredith, after all.
ReplyDeleteLike I posted before, if the Scarboroughs need help, go to this man.
ReplyDeleteNeed legal help?
Paul Morantz is an American attorney at law specializing in the prosecution of fanatical cults, religious or otherwise, and their leaders for harmful conduct. Specializing in the prosecution of those whose victims suffer through the undue influence of coercive persuasion.
http://www.paulmorantz.com/
Someone have the link about this lawsuit and judgement the Scarboroughs were involved in?
ReplyDeleteThis blog continues to stir up a stink in Charlotte. Meredith is furious that the membership have found out about this lawsuit and even more incensed that the Scarboroughs ar asking for help. Meredith has to pay his new attonrnies with tithe money while the Scarboroughs get to use free will gifts. This blog I cont toy referee to as an instrument of Satan who is speaking to divide the church.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting soap opera.
ReplyDeleteBy now the leadership of LCG is aware of this blog posting. If possible, they will use it as evidence against the Scarboroughs.
ReplyDeleteThere claim will likely be that it is in keeping with the pattern of aggression towards the LCG beliefs and practices which lead to the "marking" decision.
Another consideration is the one posted by Anon 12:13. Given their record of support for the LCG, does one contribute in hopes that they will be vindicated and allowed to continue that practice.
As far as I can determine, they want to be re-instated into the LCG and thereby continue supporting it.
I cannot support anyone that, through their efforts, promotes the degradation of others, and sadly, their past LCG support has aided in that very thing to countless others, as evidenced by the number of those who post to this blog.
Daily I see poverty that those in western country's can only imagine.
For example, a woman literately rotting away in her home as her family watched helplessly while breast cancer ate at her.
One of her neighbors recently lost a forth baby to Denque fever.
Parents who helplessly watch as their children succumb to the rigors of malnutrition and in some cases, starvation.
I must say thank you Mr. and Mrs. Scarboroughs for the opportunity of supporting you in your fight against the LCG but I must decline.
I chose to support the hungry children that often have only one small meal a day and come asking for just one cup of rice to help see them through it.
Or the mother suffering with malnutrition so severe, she can't produce milk to feed her new born.
We have to walk the walk people, not just talk the talk.
Anon 230 I don't know how well you know them but I have been to their home many times and they live like normal people. Their home is reasonable and smaller than the homes Jim and Rod live in. They don't live like millionaires and they don't act like millionaires (maybe they spent it all on TV stations and computer servers for LCG?). I also know them to be generous with what they do have.
ReplyDeleteA lawsuit like this could cost upward of $100,000. Most people don't have that much cash laying around.
ReplyDeleteMy thought: help if you want, don't help if you don't want
I'm sure ol' Spanky will try to convince trolls to dissuade as many Scarborough givers as possible even if it means they have to post on this "instrument of Satan" blog.
230 says Patrick, "was known as someone who couldn’t really relate to the average church member’s plight, often finding feast locations that were high brow in cost and status, but that also met Patrick’s lifestyle"
ReplyDeleteFor example?
I'm in LCG and I don't remember any of the sites he planned being expensive or extravagant. In fact, I remember being the beneficiary of a great Feast one year at an awesome resort that normally sells for $250+ a night but we only had to pay $59 a night for the whole feast.
Our dinner dance meals were also way better prices when Patrick was working for LCG. Jim negotiates nothing. Our meals are $30 per person now and it seems we don't get any discounts on rooms.
I have heard that Patrick used his own money to travel to the sites he set up, etc. In stark contrast to Jim who feels A-Okay spending 5 weeks of tithe payer money to "set up" the Hawaiian feast site that's at the same hall it's been in for years or a dozen other extravagant trips us poor Joe's pay for him to take.
It's the Meredith's who are out of touch with normal church members. They never have to pay for anything with their own money so they are clueless!
In the last paragraph she writes:
ReplyDeleteThe WCG and the LCG have left many hurt, broken, bullied and abused members in their wake.
Does this mean they've seen the truth about the cults and have become anti-COG?
The comments here make me torn over whether to donate.
In the end, I think anything to squelch RCM's ability to hurt others will rule my day.
I can see UCG, PCG, and COGWA making anonymous donations to the gofundme account. After all, they will certainly benefit when this lawsuit bankrupts LCG and LCG members need another ACOG to attend.
ReplyDeleteWhen is Meredith not "furious" 3:36?
ReplyDeleteHe's an angry man who worships an angry God.
I would rather put money into a legitimate charity. Not someone who will continue to support HWA's ideas.
ReplyDeletePatrick, Elizabeth, (Friends)....
ReplyDeleteHas the God of the Bible lost His power and strength in your eyes? Have you lost the hope of vengeance being His? Has the reality of the God of the Bible having a church, and choosing a fallible person to lead it to do a work in this current world fallen to nothingness in your eyes? Do things like Romans 8:28 rendered meaningless? Can you really have turned to an anti Church of God klan to fuel your pain and purpose?
I'm sorry. I really am. We miss you, but this is not what we were a part of. This is not what Mr Apartian was a part of. This legal action is makes it all nothing. Is that what you are saying? Are you saying it was nothing? There is no God? There is no coming Kingdom? There is just your hurt feelings?
This blog ... this few people are fueled reenergized against the God you worship (maybe worshiped, i don't know) they will move on to the next grand overture of world ending hate mongering token of hopelessness. But you don't have to be a part of it. I would donate towards making you whole, to stop this route of seeking self justice... but i actually for the first time speak-out saying this is not what a "called out one" should do. So what are you saying to your friends in the lcg? are you saying this is not the church? So where is it? Are you saying there is no God? All that love towards the people... what are you trying to tell them? Or is that love on hold until you make 'your' point?
I miss you... but i think maybe you should tell us what you're telling us... the rest of these people don't care about you, they are using you. This may be a way to get your message out... but make your message worth something. Where is God? Where is His Church? What is the hope? Is it in Bob, Connie, Richard and a couple other anons? :-\
Really you miss them???? Have you stayed in contact with them? Or like the good LCG member you have shunned them just like the rest.
DeleteWhy don't you look at all the bible and not cherry pick scriptures to fit your point. Was David not looking to God? Or how about Abraham was when he rescued Lot? Paul used the courts of his time. Meredith used the courts against lots of people. Most just don't realize that he did.
Patrick has tried and tried to work things out with Meredith he has been unwilling to even talk to them. So again as God says "if they will not hear, tell it to the church".
From Wess,
ReplyDelete.Anonymous March 2, 2016 at 3:16 PM
This blog continues to stir up a stink in Charlotte. Meredith is furious that the membership have found out about this lawsuit and even more incensed that the Scarboroughs are .asking for help. Meredith has to pay his new attorneys with tithe money while the Scarboroughs get to use free will gifts. This blog I cont toy referee to as an instrument of Satan who is speaking to divide the church.
RCM seems to be a little confused about how this division issue just came out of the blue . {not}
We can trace it back to the 1950,s when HWA began feeding {The I am better than any body else }
Ego of an insecure histrionic myopic evangelist . Just the kind of person to live the example of an autocrat minister . The 60 plus years since, are replete with the history of misery this false prophet as wrought on so many that he was supposed to be serving .
Why would anyone contribute to a fund to draw attention to this abuse of power unless there was overwhelming conviction that it is taking place ? I personally know what has happened to me, from two of the three. A long time ago .
Also seems to not see the difference between the Extorted Tithe and a Free Will Gift not to mention the problem with cover-ups vs. open and honest respect for the membership. Who is the instrument of Satan ?
Wess
Anon 6:23, the Church of God today is composed of the scattered sheep who remain loyal to God.
ReplyDelete3Jn 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
3Jn 1:10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
Diotrephes is the example followed by the splinter groups as they mimic the WCG.
But relax as we are all saved!
The tithe payers who spit on Christs sacrifice, the covenant they made with Him, are saved for the Great Tribulation where they learn the error of their ways then die. They and their loved ones.
Us low lives on the other hand, since we recognize and keep the covenant we made with Christ, are saved in the wilderness, where we learn the spiritual aspects of scripture and prepare for the millennium. We and our loved ones.
Just in closing, consider this little fact: Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
NOT ONE of the groups has the "spirit of prophecy", therefore, it also follows that not one of them has "the testimony of Jesus".
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
do they really thing Rod Meridith has any say so concerning their salvation???
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWess said,
"We can trace it back to the 1950,s when HWA began feeding {The I am better than any body else Ego of an insecure histrionic myopic evangelist."
On this particular blog everything "bad" is traced back to hwa. That's cool I'll play that game, inserting my insights now and then.
When you truly follow the development of wcg culture from the 1930's till the 1990's the rcg started as a true american breed in fundamentalist culture, leadership style (extremely democratic founder (no university training required, direct contact with the leader) (only later developinng toward the 1930 corporate culture).
A major development in rcg's culture was the opening of the British campus. That inserted a particular mold of "class distinction" that was not apparent until the Americans got exposed to a distinct class society. (british culture is/was very aware of class even if you're not part of that class (posh spice).
You'll put waaaayyyyyyy to much emphasis on hwa, disregarding, the prevailing cultures, management styles of the times and apparent lack of experience unlike modern start ups that shed management by the dozens if they do not perform.
nck
The problem, 10:52, as you can see from some of the comments, is that people still do believe that their Armstrongite ministers are the gatekeepers to the Kingdom. This is why the public marking and disfellowshipment of members is so stigmatizing. These activities would be largely imaginary and even irrelevant to a church that emphasized a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, with the ministry simply being servant guides, as seems to be the New Covenant example. However, Armstrongism is centered on people who take on titles and offices for themselves, people who believe in one true church being a corporate group, with oppressive and intrusive government from which there is no right of appeal, no due process, and no accountability of the leaders. If these factors were true, don't we all realize that the words they tell us they receive from God (their prophecies) would come true rather than constantly needing revision, and needing to be explained away?
ReplyDeleteThe sign HWA gave, the hook of his message which trapped people into a false system has become their condemnation as anyone who understands Deut. 18:22 surely must realize. That pretty much says it all, because their so-called authority has been based on supposedly secret end times information, with them being the insiders, the administrators, and the gatekeepers, yet 1975 failed and has continued to fail for over 40 years, and British Israelism has been so thoroughly debunked that is has entered into the same ridiculous repository where flat earthers reside. This truth should be setting people free, but so many end up just reprogramming themselves. Those of us who point this out are not trying to gain followings, or self-aggrandize, and we don't commune with Satan. We just hope that more people will return to reality, to become unenslaved, and possibly to participate in and enjoy what Paul calls the freedom in Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, Armstrongism has a track record of creating atheists in its aftermath.
BB
I think Paul taught the Corinthians to settle their issues without resorting to legal action. But, this gives thugs like RCM a free hand to abuse people. These people TRIED to work things out, but apparently RCM refused to work with them.
ReplyDeleteDo you remember the last episode of Seinfeld, where witness after witness took the stand to give examples of what bad people Seinfeld and friends are? I would like so see RCM in such a situation.
3.16.PM your comment about the Scarborough's previous lucrative court settlement, raises the suspicion that they are going back to the well for a second helping. Hmmm.
ReplyDeleteConnie suggests- "During the upcoming Holy Days, acquire a second envelope and place just ONE PENNY in it. (You can still use your own preprinted envelope for your regular offering)."
ReplyDeleteMy response- I mostly like the idea, but why make a "regular offering" at all? Better to use the money for a better and more legitimate cause.
BTW, it just flabbergasts me that the LCG leadership would shoot themselves in the foot like this.
How much are they suing for? Maybe they got a taste of what a lawsuit can bring in the first lawsuit (that people said brought them millions), so since they've been injured again (albeit not physically) they'd like to "go back, jack, do it again", as the song goes.
ReplyDeleteAnd somewhat on the other hand, if the LCG and named defendants committed libel, I'd love to see this resolved in the Scarboroughs favor.
Cults should not be able to use such strongarm (pun intended) tactics with impunity.
The tithe payers who spit on Christs sacrifice, the covenant they made with Him, are saved for the Great Tribulation where they learn the error of their ways then die. They and their loved ones.
ReplyDeleteWho are you writing about? Since none of this is in the posts, it is difficult to discern the meaning of this statement as it applies to the subject at hand.
Mr. Apartian told anyone who was willing to discuss it with him in the last year of his life that "LCG was no longer the church of God". It is common knowledge that he was talking to the leaders of several other groups and planning to remove his support from RCM. Unfortunately,he got sick at the ripe old age of 90 something and never had a chance to complete his transition.
ReplyDeleteI have so many issued with anon 6:23's post....
ReplyDeleteYou call the Scarborough's your "friends". I'm curious to know if you have treated them like friends? It sounds like you knew them, liked them and miss them but have you remained their friends? Do you see them? Hang out with them? Or have you participated in the hateful (opposite of loving, opposite of godly) shunning of them in blind obedience to the man you idolize and submit to out of fear of retaliation?
As I said in another post, I hold every friend of the Scarborough's who has participated in the shunning complicit in this lawsuit.
You seem to care about the Word of God but was what happened to these people godly? If it's not right, it isn't okay for you to just sit back and do nothing. Doing nothing in situations of injustice is the same as condoning the wrongful actions. You have contributed and are just as guilty of injuring 2 of God's children as RCM is.
God says "trust no man" but you put more trust in Meredith than in God. I can just bet that you are one of those LCGers who thinks, "well I don't understand what happened with the Scarborough's but I trust that RCM is 3rd in all the universe so I must obey him if I want to be a pillar in the kingdom".
Egh, wrong answer. Rod will not be standing next to you on judgement day. You and only you will be accountable for your actions (or lack thereof).
Would Christ have shunned these people? Or would He have done anything He could to help them, love them and keep them from the Enemy? Is Christ living in you? Do you act like it? Or do you act like a blind sheep; unable to think for yourself, waiting for a corrupt man to tell you what to do and what to think?
News flash: Obedience to Rod Meredith has zero impact on your position in the kingdom.
God often uses people to execute His will. There is a distinct possibility that He is using the Scarborough lawsuit to wake Rod Meredith up so that he can repent before he dies.
ReplyDeleteRod has destroyed so many lives. If you look at his record over the past 6 decades it is pretty scary. He is a bad man who has done so many bad things to so many undeserving people.
It looks like he finally stomped down the wrong people. I'm glad someone is finally standing up for themselves. Most acog people who are victims of bullying and ministerial abuse just lay back and take it. Thankfully someone has grown a back bone and has the courage to say, "this is wrong and we won't stand for it".
Anon 623
ReplyDeleteHow do you reconcile that your ministers didn't follow Rom 8:28 themselves? How do you reconcile that they didn't follow the whole of Matt 18?
If they had followed Matt 18, it seems none of this would have happened in the first place.
But it's much easier to blame the victims when you are LCG brainwashed so I get where you are coming from (not)
The sheeple in LCG think that it's perfectly ok for RCM to use these people as punching bags. He hit them, knocked them down and then just kept pounding them.
ReplyDeleteBut if they decided to get up and defend themselves, THEY are the bad guys?!
Annon 6:23 says, "but i actually for the first time speak-out saying this is not what a "called out one" should do. So what are you saying to your friends in the lcg? are you saying this is not the church? So where is it? Are you saying there is no God? All that love towards the people... what are you trying to tell them? Or is that love on hold until you make 'your' point?"
ReplyDeleteYou are "for the 1st time speaking out" because of the existence of this blog which is precisely what it is for so how can you condemn it?
You ask, what are you saying to your friends in LCG? after reading Mrs. Scarborough's letter, it doesn't look like they have any "friends in LCG". Maybe you meant fair-weather friends? Real "friends" don't turn their backs on one another on the word of an evil dictator.
"So your saying LCG is not the church?" YES YES YES!!! LCG is NOT the church! The church is a body of people, some are in organizations, some are not. Your behavior is the only qualifier for membership in God's church. Obedience to a man has NOTHING to do with it. Membership in an organization has NOTHING to do with it.
And lastly, how does filing a lawsuit to seek justice against a man who has broken the law (law of God and law of man) imply in any way that someone "doesn't believe in God?
anonymous 6:23 thinks we are to 'have hope' in the vengence of God.
ReplyDeleteWeird and sicko much?
Classic cult brainwashing behavior: blame the victims and give grace to the abusers.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how Rod Meredith and Rod McNair imagine this going in front of a jury! Can they really be that stupid?
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the Scarborough's tried over and over again to work this out. How's that gonna look to a jury?
I would love to be a fly on the wall in that courtroom!
Dear mr O'Dell,
ReplyDeleteThank you for paraphrasing. By your question I learn a lot. Thank you for that.
"vengeance" or "nqm"
Employment of the root NQM appears to especially carry the suggestion of divine protection for one bearing such name, as well as implying fear to scare the enemy. The notion of divine vengeance in early semitic language is connected to the individual welfare of the devout. The noun niqmum form the Mari Text occurs in the context of legal punishment, describing the execution of an accused by a member of the injured party. In old Aramaic and Midde Aramaic NQM functions in the context of covenant law (as stipulation and as sanction) an in the context of religioous law. (in conjunction with an oath)
With great caution because of the scarcity of occurrences, as a general conclusion pertaining to exetra-biblical employment of the NQM grop, we can say that this root was not specifically associated with illegal or illegitimate actions but rather it ought to be associated with the enforcement of reinstatement of justice.
(so not so much weirdo and sicko)
I found this relevant because of the flack 6:23 receives, because of the science involved and as an appreciation of the Syria excavations of our former association. (that is you and me and the other band of brothers)
nck
@ Connie,
ReplyDeleteForget about dropping a penny in the offering envelope, that is still too much money to give. Once during one holy day offering I gave an empty envelope, I would have loved to seen the look on their faces when that one was opened, all they got was an empty envelope full of air, and even that was too much to give.
Craig
LCG broke the law and being held accountable = the victims don't belie in God?
ReplyDeleteThat's quite a leap 6:23
I am so sad to read this news
ReplyDeleteI love these people and I think about them often but I haven't contacted them since they were put out.
Now I'm wondering if I had trusted my gut which was telling me to show them love, if that kindness would have kept them from this desperate act :(
6.27AM I have heard people say that they will qualify for the kingdom in the tribulation. But this is wishful thinking. The tribulation can only 'work' on people who have good foundation of character, which isn't the case with most church members. Most would be destroyed by the pressures of the tribulation. You can see this by the way the typical church member responses to provocation. At any rate, there are no promises of God that a person will live long enough to be in the tribulation. For most, today is the day of salvation.
ReplyDeleteBob, Connie, Richard and a couple of other anons are more likely to show loyal friendship to their fellow man than any of the members in LCG would
ReplyDeleteIf it weren't for this blog exposing the lawsuit, LCG members and ministers still wouldn't know about it and Spanky would still be in his ivory tower of deception begging for more money to "do the work".
ReplyDeleteGreat job Banned!
From Wess
ReplyDelete"You'll put waaaayyyyyyy to much emphasis on hwa, disregarding, the prevailing cultures, management styles of the times and apparent lack of experience unlike modern start ups that shed management by the dozens if they do not perform."
nck
NCK your point is well taken and acknowledged however, from the letters HWA wrote , for all to see, in the early 80,s regarding his assessment of the fitness of RCM , they are on point ! The fact he took no action to remove him from WCG demonstrates tacit approval of this management style . The record is replete with instances where many were dismissed for less repugnant and demoralizing behavior .
The other option is HWA did not regard abusive behavior as anything to be outside the “normal “! {for the Pawns & Pieces in his game}
Nice to have this exchange ,Wess
Yes Wess,
ReplyDeleteI really liked your first posting. My response was not personal.
((as a general remark, a terrible manager does't necessarily equal a bad "christian", it's just a terrible manager) I litteraly feel sick when I see a 90 year old founder write that no sucessor has been groomed or the 2nd (or maybe first) in command (SR) writing that there will be no successor. A common and terrible mistake for a family business.
Unfortunately or maybe fortunately, I have little recollection of RCM as a manager only as a speaker, so I really am not qualified to comment on this topic. For a while I hoped the Garden Grove Schullers would be wiser and alternate quicker. Now I'm praying for Buffett.
nck
Anonymous 6:30 a.m. - I was interested in reading our post regarding Mr. Apartian. I knew him and respected him highly. I would imagine if he had actually left LCG that a LOT of people would have taken notice, and did the same. Sometimes you really don't know what to believe in this day and age. I am praying to God to lead me to the full truth. All things actually do come to light.
ReplyDeleteI stood by and heard Mr. Ames himself say the Matt. 18 does not apply to the ministry... I about fell on the floor!
ReplyDeleteThey really believe they are above the law and doing what God says... but heaven help the sheep if they don't follow it.
The sad part of the story about Mr. Apartian is that. When he was dying, Mr. Ames actually stood up giving the announcements and said "that you should not go see Mr. Apartian anymore. They said it was because he had CDiff. But you only get CDiff if your immune system is weak or you are in a nursing home or hospital.
ReplyDeleteThe truth of the matter is they knew that he was telling people the Living was no longer the Church of God. And they had to stop people from seeing him.
Mr. Apartian lived Patrick like his own son. He would really be convinced LCG isn't God's church if he saw what they've done to him.
ReplyDeleteLCG reminds me of Ike Turner. They keeping hitting their members because they love them so much.
ReplyDeleteTo our LCG anon: if this is how you treat your "friends" who needs enemies?
ReplyDeleteI bet Lil Jimmy is looking into how to shelter cash in the Caymans right about now
ReplyDeletelcg, like any other organization, is a reflection of the character of its leader; we all know this is not the first time dr. Meredith has been sued for this exact same kind of behavior...
ReplyDeletewhen i attended lcg a decade ago there was a member who was disfellowshipped because they refused to stop eating swine; then in a sermon the minister mentioned this person and basically said negative things about this person, rather than just letting bygones be...
later, i was told either cut my long hair or i could no longer attend; i chose not to cut my hair, not because i wanted to merely keep my hair long, but as a matter of principle because i felt lcg, and wwcg in general did always choke on a gnat and wolf down a camel;
i later wrote the minister and asked him not to slander me as he did the other member that he disfellowshipped, and warned him that if i found out that he did, i would consider legal action against him...
dr. meredith, if you are not satisfied with the growth of the lcg you should look in the mirror and curse yourself; your own unkind, spiteful callous character has not only stunted the growth of lcg, and kept you from becoming the rightful leader of wwcg, but has indeed hindered the gospel...
From Wess,
ReplyDeleteHey NCK nor was it ever rec'd as personal.Yet thanks for your concern !
PS Just for fun;
Warren's Feb. 27 'Outlook is designed to bolster the current admin. resolve to oppose Keystone, on which in part, rest his hope to recover some of 12 billion BH lost last year.His RR gets to haul the crude . {he denies this}
Off topic Mea Colpa
Wess
Amazing that the vast majority of people here simple swallow what they say. Over my years in the church I have never heard a person who was censured ever admit they in any way deserved the discipline. Never. Most here just swallow what the so-called victims say as if it's the whole truth. The world, at large, is exactly the same.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't Proverbs say something about the first to tell his story is believed until the other comes along and tells his side. These folk have made their decision. The church will get a chance to test their story in court.
Another member of the family made similar accusations and quietly backed off when claims were tested by facts.
4.16AM you don't understand the mind of a narcissist. They put power over others before the growth of their church and the spreading of the gospel. It's not a naïve oversight as you imply, but a calculated policy
ReplyDeleteWho the heck is NCK's friend "Mea Colpa Wess" and why's their banter here?
ReplyDelete5:14 (obviously LCG)
ReplyDeleteCouldn't it be said that you got your story out first when you scripted a narrative and broadcast it both from the pulpit and through whispering campaigns that these people were bad enough to mark?
It seems to me they are only defending themselves against your "story".
You should realize that the reason it is so easy for people to sympathize with the Scarborough's in this situation is because SO MANY people have been victims of ACOG lies and injustices. A zebra doesn't change it's stripes. Rod Meredith has a notorious reputation as a bully and a liar so it's easy to believe that the bullied these people and lied about them. It fits his character to a T.
We are all looking forward to hearing Rod Meredith's defenses in court. I hope you feel it's an excellent use of your hard-earned tithe money.
Keep drinking the Kool-aide. Reality might suck for you.
Anon 5:14 you consider be cast out of the body of Christ "discipline"?
ReplyDeleteLCG 5:14 if Rod Meredith has such a great reason for dismembering, I mean disfellowshipping these people, why didn't he just meet with them and tell them what their offense was and who their accusers were per matt 18:15?
ReplyDeleteIt's the lack of transparency and unwillingness to be forthcoming that makes LCG look guilty.
I remember when Rod Meredith's first wife had skin cancer. My mom met with Margie during a feast, and when my dad went to pick her up after the meeting, he met Rod Meredith on the way out who laughed about Margie's cancer and called it "only a skin condition"
ReplyDeleteShortly after that, Margie died of that cancer.
Anon 9:21. Why did Meredith did not meet them? Well I guess just because the official pastors of the Charlotte congregation were League and McNair...
ReplyDeleteI lived out of state but I tell you I would have visited Mr. Apartian no matter what they said ...hard to believe. Thank you for this blog, it seems to me like more LCG members are on here actually getting information - which should be easily disseminated, you would think at least. Is there any way to publish anything about what Mr. Apartian's thoughts were ....I held him in the highest esteem because I knew him and what he stood for ... seems to me like there are a lot of loving LCG members here, that cannot talk with their brothers and sisters,, thank you Dennis for this place to share
ReplyDelete5.14 AM what people swallow is what the ministers say, not what the victims say. Most in the church have poor thinking skills and wrongfully subcontract their thinking to the ministers. Yours is the typical 'blame the victim' which most church victims experience. Where in your post, is judging every person on their individual deeds? You choose to conveniently paint the Scarborough's and every victim with the same brush. This is typical church 'justice.'
ReplyDeleteWhy did HWA keep RCM on staff? During the Cuban Missile Crisis JFK was treated disrespectfully by General Curtis E. Lemay. RFK even had to admonish the general. Asked why JFK kept him on as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, it was because if a war did break out, Lemay was the king of General who could fight. Perhaps RCM was kept on board just in case his heavy handed skills were needed to get the church "back on track."
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:05
ReplyDeleteLCG friend and defender.
Don't you think, since marking is such a severe form of punishment, that Mr. Meredith should always speak to people before marking them?
Further, the Scarborough "letter" says that no minister told them they were being marked but that they heard it from a church member in the congression. You can't think that's the right way to handle things. Can you?
I mean, marking someone is so severe it could potentially cut them off to the point they lose all hope and abandon God's way all together. It should be a last resorts after MANY counseling sessions IF the person refused to stop participating in grievous sinning.
Anything else is abuse of power.
What do you think?