From LCG source:
In last week's LCG Weekly Update it looks like Doug Winnail took a swipe at the Meredith's Gestapo for their John Robinson witch hunt. I am very familiar with LCG headquarter's in Charlotte and they are the exact opposite of the traits Winnail outlines below. They can never overlook an insult. In fact, they are so thin-skinned that McNair keeps a file on every Facebook post or comment that each members has made or is alleged to have made that implies that LCG ministry is anything but perfect. They are the least forgiving people on earth despite the fact that they take the Passover year after year which, in theory, would give offenders a clean slate. LCG leadership ALWAYS sit in judgement, frequently accuse, criticize and "dig up and spread evil things about others". It is their method of operation! LCG ministers don't work on getting their "own lives in order" because they completely lack the personal insight needed for such an activity. They think they are pure and righteous. They appear to be completely oblivious to the plank in their own eyes. Does Doug seriously believe that McNair and Meredith deal with people gently, respectfully and patiently? Is that what they did to John Robinson and countless others that they decided to take aim at just because they dared to express a less than sunshiny opinion about ministers or about the corruption at LCG headquarters?
Doug Winnail was brave to write such a piece. He has done this before. Each time he makes these little swipes, many in LCG collectively hold their breath to see if he gets exiled to some little town in the middle of nowhere or gets asked to leave all together like Winnail's CAD predecessor Charles Bryce.
Time will tell...
Doug writes:
Skills that Promote Teamwork: Members of successful organizations develop the necessary skills to function together smoothly to accomplish goals. These skills can be identified and learned. As Christians, we must develop the same skills—and many are clearly biblical. Effective team members are sensitive to the feelings of others and avoid saying or doing things that offend others (Matthew 18:7; 1 Corinthians 10:23). They are forgiving and overlook insults because they have learned not to be easily offended (Proverbs 10:12; 17:9; 1 Corinthians 13:5). Team players do not sit in judgment of other people—accusing, criticizing and digging up and spreading evil things about others—instead, they make sure their own lives are in order (Matthew 7:1-5; James 4:11). Team players are peacemakers (Matthew 5:9) who are able to promote harmony and work smoothly with others (James 4:17). They deal with people gently, respectfully and patiently and are willing to listen (James 1:19). Team players do not promote themselves at the expense of others (Matthew 20:20-24). Effective team players appreciate that the team is made up of individuals with different talents and abilities who make unique contributions to the team (1 Corinthians 12:12), and that the main priority is to work together smoothly to achieve a goal while showing love to one another (Ephesians 4:16). In short, good team players have learned to love their neighbors—as Jesus instructed.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
Even if these men were his target, Winnail is quite safe. Meredith and McNair will never see themselves as other than the human exemplars of these verses. That someone would use them as the basis for critiquing them will just not compute! That would be too far out.
ReplyDeleteBB
Interesting that Doug used "as Jesus instructed" I can't remember seeing any reference to Jesus in any writings by the others. Good for you Doug.
ReplyDeleteYour right BB
ReplyDeleteHow can a man who claims he has never committed major sin since he was baptized admit he has made a mistake? How can little Rod McNair ever admit he made a mistake when he was trained at the feet of the most abusive minister the Church of God has ever had?
ReplyDeleteDoug Winnail concludes his comments with writing: "... In short, good team players have learned to love their neighbors—as Jesus instructed."
ReplyDeleteThe major problem with that conclusion is that nowhere had Doug explained how one "learned to love."
If one has love, the love that is a fruit of God's Spirit, and not something of SELF, then that love must come from God by measure/proportion like faith (Romans 12:3, 6). Love, God's love, is given by God, from God, to the individual as fruit that God is bearing in the one who has become the workmanship of God's hands.
If love is learned, as Doug has stated, then how is love learned? I personally don't see anyone learning love in any verse of the Bible.
God is love. Does one somehow magically learn God too?
Well, is there proof that love is given by/from God?
"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." Romans 5:5
No learning there! God sheds that love by His Spirit. No Spirit of God, then no Godly love. Notice the verse said that that love is "given unto us!" Love is not learned.
We know the ancient Israelites didn't learn love. And it wasn't given to most of them. Why not? They, like the world (John 14:17) weren't given God's Spirit, so they were not going to have the proper heart, eyes and ears:
"Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day." Deut 29:4
God must give again, because those things aren't learned just b/c someone says they can or must be learned, but back to love!
"Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." Eph 6:23
Love is from God to the brethren. Faith is from God to the brethren. Peace is from God to the brethren. Well, aren't those fruits of God listed in Galatians 5? No self here. No learning here, but to have them God must provide them fruits.
Does one think one can just follow love?
"But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness." 1 Ti 6:11
Just follow? Well, that isn't learning love, is it? God must be involved. How?
"And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ." 2 Th 3:5
Is that done by learning? No, but God must be involved to direct one's heart "into the love of God."
John
To be continued...
Continuing with one more verse!
ReplyDelete"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." 1 John 4:12
Nice, love may be perfected in us, but does it happen by learning? No. God's involvement is necessary in the lives of those individuals after God has started/begun making them His workmanship.
Doug's job should be so easy if all brethren and ministers had God's Spirit. In fact, there would be no need for Doug to beat his message into their minds, which doesn't help, b/c love is not learned by the actions of SELF. It a fruit of God. It's a gift. God and His Spirit must be involved before one has that teamwork love Doug speaks of.
The hirelings who left WCG, leaving their ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena, and abandoned the sheep in order to re-gather sheep to themselves so that tithe money would continue to flow their way......and hopefully eventually provide them a nice retirement later. They need to be careful, because God may just have said to them, without any of them realizing it: "You're fired!"
As in Ezekiel 34:9-10
Ezekiel 34:9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
When God causes them, His shepherds/ministers/hirelings to "cease from feeding the flock:" it is like telling them: "You're fired!"
And if God does not "rehire" them, then what will they do?
The flock may need to be fed, but to tell them they can learn love? Are they really being fed? If one can learn love, then it needs to be explained just how that is accomplished, because God is not in that picture.
No wonder He says in Ezekiel that He must search out His sheep and seek His flock out. The hirelings aren't doing it.
Thankfully, I suppose, that is God's business, God's work if you will. Who wants to get into that business?
Time will tell...
John
Yeah sure, forgive, overlook insults, and don't be easily offended. The reason? So that the mafia ministers and their minions can get away with all sorts of mistreatment of members. It's the fox preaching to the chickens. Where is talk of NOT sinning against others, NOT insulting others and NOT offending others? And where's the talk about rebuking people, and shunning them if they refuse to repent?
ReplyDeleteIf you consider what they say, and NOT say, it's all about creating a alternate reality for losers.
The Living Church of Losers. Losers, come join our church (don't forget to bring your wallet). It will be heaven on earth for you. All your future victims have already been mentally castrated for you. Heaven, sweet heaven.
So Jesus instructed? Since when has the LCG been a follower of Jesus? All I hear is Old Testament stories, laws and hero's. It is disgusting.
ReplyDelete" gets asked to leave all together like Winnail's CAD predecessor Charles Bryce."
ReplyDeleteBe careful with comparisons to others, we don't what happened with Bryce...
I had the misfortune of being in one of CB's congregations. He's a pure hireling who pretended to be a minister, while ignoring the afflicted in the congregation, but being very sure to kiss up to the powerful. You should have seen him fawning over the Merediths while ignoring hurting and suicidal congregants.
It was bad news on both sides!
The timing of Doug's comments was uncanny. John Robinson was a fresh victim of the Gestapo. The men that ousted him did the exact opposite of the character traits Doug outlined in his writings.
ReplyDeleteIn that same time frame, Doug likely had to go to a deposition for the lawsuit that was filed by other victims of the LCG Gestapo because the men at LCG headquarters lacked the traits Doug wrote about in this weekly update.
I wonder if it ever weighs heavy on his heart that he has to keep watching good people get blind-sided by these horrible men? It seems that he at least knows of the grace and love of Jesus Christ. I don't know if he lives it but he at least KNOWS of it from an intellectual perspective. And then to sit there at the head of church administration and watch these hateful actions by his subordinates... It seems it would be spiritually exhausting.
But I guess that paycheck helps comfort him every 2 weeks.
Doug Winnail is the polar opposite of Gerald Weston. He is more quiet and gentle by nature and (when I knew him) doesn't have a pushy bone in his body. I am not sure what he believes privately but I would guess it no longer matches what he sees around him in some areas. While Dr. Winnail (Biology I believe) is not really apt to teach as they say , or in speaking, he may divide LCG between those who can identify with his more gentle approach and Gerald Westons , more like RCM, personality.
ReplyDeleteI believe churches divide as much over the personalities of the congregants as anything else. There is a butt for ever seat as they say and when RCM is gone, it should be interesting. Well I mean if you like watching Big Fish in small ponds.
Doug is probably going to get a good talking to about all those heretical New Testament scriptures and concepts he floated in his letter to the ministry. "Your not going Jesus on us are you Doug" is probably in his future.
ReplyDeleteOver and Unders "betting line" for how long Winnail will be around after the demise of RCM. CURRENT LINE- (you bet either longer or shorter) -ONE YEAR.
ReplyDeleteMy bet is shorter. However not sure if UCG or COGWA can afford to hire him. So makes betting kinda hard to figure out
ReplyDeleteI met Doug once at a funeral he was nice and cordial even though I was a shunned ex-minister. He doesn't fit the mold for LCG ministers
ReplyDeleteI will bet that Doug will be around some xcg spinoff a year after Meredith dies, except in a different organization. He will not be able to abide Weston in the long run nor will Weston allow him to remain if he is not 100% committed to Weston's hard line approach.
ReplyDeleteI always gets a chuckle out reading the comments on this type of blog from people who have ZERO inside knowledge about anything they are writing. Every comment here is based on a pre-conceived idea of what the commenter desires LCG to be. Thanks for the laughs folks!
ReplyDelete12.20PM. Mr 'laughs,' with your un 'pre conceived' ideas and inside knowledge that we lack, who does the giving, and who does the getting with your churches 'give way?'
ReplyDeleteI too will get a chuckle from your answer.
I always chuckle at the LCG members to come on here denying anything is wrong in the LCG. They are truly naive. They see it first hand in the church and ignore it. The internet is full of horrendous horror stories, not only here but on countless other sites, and they ignore it. Thanks for the laughs!
ReplyDelete12:20 ~ real members of LCR, with real inside experience are posting here, and nonmember posters are commenting. Remember, members' behavior has changed. It's like a vote of nonconfidence in the leadership. Some of the brethren with whom you attend sabbath services no longer allow the ministers to muzzle their freedom of speech. The couple you greet and smilingly shake hands with after services may well be putting their tithes into an escrow account until they can determine who qualifies to receive those tithes. And, they are sharing with us, bigtime! Does that sound like information that would make you chuckle?
ReplyDeleteBB
I've been with GCG / LCG since 1996 and know many people in influential places within it and many others whose names have been disparaged on this blog. Again, you people here have ZERO knowledge of what actually takes place within it. You are the ones who are naive and believe every bit of hearsay that is vomited out on this blog. Keep the laughs coming!
ReplyDeleteOk. Why then do YOU keep coming here.
DeleteAnon 3:27 I too was in GCG and then LCG for 18 years total. You have to really try to remain as blissfully ignorant as you appear to be.
ReplyDeleteI will say, there are some small congregations with exceptional ministers in LCG so if you are confined to such a group and have no interactions with headquarters or larger congregations, perhaps your bubble has yet to be burst.
But after observing years of many, many, many instances of horribly bully-like, un-Christian behavior from the "leading men" in LCG, I came to the conclusion that there was absolutely NO WAY POSSIBLE that LCG was God's church. Men who represent God on earth would NEVER act the way those men act. God is love. Christ is grace. LCG is more clueless about this than mainstream Christianity could ever be.
The COG is a body of people who are not affiliated with any one man-made organization. Some are in churches. Some are not. Following a man (Rod Meredith) can only lead to one thing. Idolatry is easy to fall into when LCG ministry preaches that they are Christ's spokesmen on earth and that members have to obey them or else be at risk for not being pillars in the KOG because they are disobedient to "God's government". That is a load of brainwashing crap.
Your position in the Kingdom will be based on one thing and one thing only... your development of true Christian character and active demonstration of love for your fellow man.
Obedience to LCG ministry gets you nowhere. Please wake up before it is too late.
I saw a Facebook post today of several LCG members talking about the upcoming LCG fast on July 30th. One man stated that the fast was because of the August 1st court date in the Scarborough law suit. Most of the LCGers following the thread indicated that they had no idea about the lawsuit. One posted a link to Banned.
ReplyDeleteJust think of all the new LCG viewers Banned will have tonight.
I hope they read HWA's letter to Meredith. I hope they read what Meredith did to Leona McNair. I hope they read the dozens of personal stories ex-LCG batter sheep have shared about the horrible things LCG ministers have done to them. Maybe they will see how vain, greedy, hateful and vindictive the leaders of LCG are and refuse to participate in Meredith's pathetic fast. I mean, what kind of man calls a fast to force thousand of unsuspecting members who blindly follow him to 'BEG' God to show LCG favor instead of allowing them to pay the price for the crimes they have committed. Talk about abuse of power!
I remember the 1st time I started investigating LCG. I stayed a member for another 2-3 years but once I was awake, I could see their lies and lack of transparency for what it was. LCG is naked and blind yet they do not know.
Keep the Sabbath. Keep the Holy Days. But learn about the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and His boundless love and grace. It's liberating and wonderful. Fly free little bird!
keep the Sabbath, keep the Holy Days, and practice the boundless Love and Grace of Christ, and also His Command regarding Justice, Mercy and Faith...
Deleteworship Him by Obeying Him...
12.20PMs post is an example of the fact that abusive environments do benefit some members. I observed this during my church going years. They themselves are abusive and exploitive, and are protected by like minded ministers. For instance, there were abusive women who were constantly asked out because of a shortage of women. I don't believe they would ever be asked out on the outside of the church. The church was a gold mine for some.
ReplyDeletedr. winnail is literally the only one that has responded to the plea i made long ago to put more emphasis on the concept of love, and this after he had one time stated that love was secondary to preaching the Gospel...
ReplyDeletenow he sees that the concept of love is literally the Gospel, and always has been...the Gospel is about loving thy neighbor as thine own self, and is far superior to the notion of there being a superior race of the children of Israel...
10.44 PM your 'love' concept is too vague in today's society. It can mean just about anything. Not forgetting, the gospel is that God will give humans immortality if they build sufficient character. After all, what good is the love thingy if you die?
ReplyDelete"And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love." 1 Corinthians 13:13
Deleteamazing how something so clear cut is resisted generation after generation by we who so clearly could benefit from the concept...
10:53 PM says "worship Him by Obeying Him..." In other words, all that is required is the same obedience expected by a slave toward his master: obedience out of fear of the whip (that is, the lake of fire).
ReplyDelete8:25 AM says "your 'love' concept is too vague in today's society." 8:25 AM is so caught up in his/her society that he/she looks toward society for the definition of love and not toward the Bible. Perhaps 8:25 AM can post the scripture that says that love is defined by society and not by the Word of God.
Thank you 10:44 PM for your comment.
i bet the poster would have no problem defining the word hate...indeed the concept of love is "vague" because our society is simply resistent to the concept (ironic, since we all could benefit from it) in the first place...
Deletewhere does this self defeating notion come from??? satan, our enemy...
and you are correct: ultimately any ambiguity stems from the fact that we do reject the Word of God, and have instead made our selves gods, all knowing, with our phds and secular sages...
9.57 AM Everyone is influenced by societies definitions. You know this as well as I do. Playing stupid is not a admirable trait. I have had members and ministers tell me to ignore ongoing abusive behavior in the name of love. I assume you are coming from the same point of view. That is, forget about the ten commandments, all we need is love. Yeah sure.
DeleteThe FB post that 417 mentioned is down today. Twenty bucks says LCG Gestapo called that man and ordered him to take it down.
ReplyDeleteIt's well known that they have people at LCG headquarters that monitor Facebook for any potentially negative comments.
I'd say that discussion that the fast on the 30th is because of the court date on the 1st including links to Banned articles would qualify lol
Anon12:20PMs. Yes, I also experienced this same exploitation from ministers and their croney member friends who abuse verbally and financially other sheep in the congregation. They always get you to pick up a far flung member who is too lazy to catch a bus, when they the croney member live nearer that you do. And of course if you do not serve them in they way they think you should "take them out for dinner and pay every time, feed them constantly, pick up the tab on their expenses at the feast, even though they receive tithe assistance. All on the blessing of their minister.
ReplyDelete2:07 PM, The people who are playing stupid are the people who refuse to search scripture to determine God's definition of love.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like your members and ministers are telling you to ignore Matt. 18 because they have no love for you. They also have no love for the abusers whose sins they are enabling (and whose sins you are enabling if you follow their unloving advice).
Christian love doesn't mean being a doormat.
Another swipe from DW!
ReplyDeleteThe Value of Truth: America is in the midst of another presidential election. Around the world other nations are also in the process of looking for new leaders. During such times, candidates for leadership positions make all sorts of claims and counter-claims that lead many to question the credibility of the speakers. Sadly, we live in a world where truth is often obscured by “spin” which leads growing numbers of people to doubt and distrust statements made by would-be leaders. This should surprise no one, because this is Satan’s world (2 Corinthians 4:4), and he is the “father” of lies (John 8:44). Long ago, God foretold that the time would come when “truth is fallen in the street… everyone will deceive his neighbor… they have taught their tongue to speak lies” (Isaiah 59:14; Jeremiah 9:5). The Bible reveals there will be serious consequences for lying (Jeremiah 9:7, 13-15) and that “all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire” (Revelation 21:8). The God of the Bible is “a God of truth” who desires truth “in the inward parts” (Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 51:6). This is why Christians are commanded to “come out” of this world (2 Corinthians 6:17-18) and follow the ninth commandment (Exodus 20:16). We must also gird ourselves with truth and learn to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 6:14; 4:15) if we want to be in the kingdom of God (Psalm 15:1-2).
9.52 AM good reply. A step in the direction of love would be the teaching of rights.
ReplyDeleteI have on several occasions posted here that rights are a taboo topic in the churches (since love entails respecting ones and others right). I don't come across the word very often on this blog either. I assume this is ignorance. For instance, people have a right to be free from abuse, free from violence and free from deception. People also have a right to be left alone, ie, no pesty members or ministers following others around like a dog.
4:17 Many "Christian uberpersons" treat those who disagree as people on lower strata than they are.
ReplyDeleteI've seen it over and over again, including how self-perceived "Christian uberpersons" treat others, and examples are in this blog's comments.
Its against the nature self-perceived "Christian uberpersons" to consider that they're at the same level of those that they bully. Not to mention that a good old-fashioned apology usually doesn't occur to such self-perceived "Christian uberpersons"
i have been following this page for years, and frankly it is clear to me that if the original wwc of God had obeyed Gods Command to love there would likely never have been such a page...
ReplyDeleteall of you people that poo poo the concept of Love and of Obedience to God are frankly in contradiction to what this page is all about; and even if this page itself does not also acknowledge and appreciate the importance of the same, it certainly can see the validity of the anguish and discontent that results from the lack of love in these churches...
Anonymous July 22, 2016 at 2:59 PM had access to Winnail's comments before they were read to LCG members on the Sabbath. LCG sends a weekly CAD update to ministers every Thursday, to be read at Sabbath services. Winnail's comments were posted here on Friday afternoon. This means that one of the insiders posting here is an LCG minister!
ReplyDeleteBrethren in far flung places also received the weekly update on Thursdays, not just ministers!
ReplyDelete