A reader here with an inside track at the Restored Church of God sent the following quote from Dave Pack's recent upload of his endless series of sermons preached at his cult HQ "church."
Dave has made so many wild speculations that he forgets what he has said or claims he has had some new revelation from his god that invalidated a former comment. So far in his series he has published the transcripts to 49 sermons that he has preached. Sermons that supposedly are revealing the hidden words of God for the first time since they had been written down. Even Herbert Armstrong was not as smart as Dave! For some reason when Jesus was personally revealing to Herbert Armstrong the truth that had been lost for 1,900 years, he forgot to tell Herb the hidden things he has now been revealing to Dave. Through all of this Dave's members have been sitting there swallowing every revelation as if God personally handed it to Dave.
Apparently though Dave has had to edit almost every sermon he has preached. He has made so many mistakes that significant portions have to be deleted. Shame on Jesus for revealing the wrong information!
Dave Pack Admits He Has Preached Wrong Information, But Members Refuse to Hold Him Accountable
"As we’re preparing all of these transcripts, one of the things we’re doing, brethren, is we’re cutting large swaths of it out wherever there was error and wherever there was any kind of exaggerated emphasis on me that could be offensive. I want all of that…I want to look like a mustard seed through the 49 or 50, 52 different parts of this. There are just some things I want to not say to everybody outside that they don’t need to hear. They don’t need to understand.
"I want them to understand this terrible trial they’re going to go through, that they can escape it; how the Kingdom of God will come, and where their part in it is. They don’t need to hear all the error that we’ve had to walk out of through this long series. They don’t need to hear what my role is, or there are just certain things that don’t need to be in it. Partly, to make it shorter and less daunting for even the most serious Bible students, who might say, can I really read all that? The serious ones will and others won’t, and we may break out certain ones for the people who say I don’t want to read them all, and we give them a chance to read certain key ones. The three on the Man of Sin might be such a case—this one, and Part 31, and one other that came a little later.
"So, in some of these parts of the series, I speculated, and some of that speculation is being cut out; some will be left in. But we’re going to speculate here."
There are errors, exaggerations and speculations in his writings. So tell me, why should we both to listen or read what he has to write or say?
ReplyDelete" I speculated, and some of that speculation is being cut out; some will be left in. But we’re going to speculate here."
ReplyDeleteOtherwise as Douglas Becker says, they make shit up. He was right. Dave Pack is wrong on every count. But being a false prophet does not disqualify him in the eyes of the membership does it?
The whole lot of Pack's followers just want to hear what lulls them into a deep sleep. They will suffer for following a false prophet if the bible is correct and you know what, they deserve all that's coming to them.
Dave Pack is BABBLE ON MYSTERY RELIGION!
ReplyDeleteIronic that Davie Pack mentions the mustard seed, seeing as though he can't seem to cut the mustard any more.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember using such language, but sometimes things slip through.
It should be clear that I prefer 'ox manure' to the alternative language.
Either way though, you have to watch where you step.
"It should be clear that I prefer 'ox manure' to the alternative language."
ReplyDeleteIt always amuses me how we designate impolite or vulgar language over more "proper" usages. When my Norman ancestors conquered England, they condemned "shit" as vulgar, but the French "manure" was, they maintained more "genteel" and okay. Same meaning, though. Same with a lot of other old englsh words.
The purpose of language is to get the point across and certain words do that to the ultimate. In the end, they're just sounds with meanings we've given them and one set of sounds isn't intrinsically better than another. It's all a matter of perception and prejudice -- and not a little bit of chauvinistic prejudice.
Allen C. Dexter
I'm thinking I might send Pack a letter of appreciation for the rich comedy he continues to provide on a weekly basis.
ReplyDelete"we’re cutting large swaths of it out wherever there was error and wherever there was any kind of exaggerated emphasis on me that could be offensive."
Does he read what he himself writes, one wonders.
He just admitted "large swaths" of what he puts out is error and exaggeration, and probably offensive.
What a clown, how in the world do people follow this dude?
It should be obvious by now that Dave Pack lacks public relations sensibility, amongst his other shortcomings. He is constantly getting himself in trouble with his verbal gyrations. Clearly, he could use a board capable and brave enough to offer wise counsel.
ReplyDeleteAll he needed to do was to state that they were revising and condensing this mass of material to put it into a format that would make it more accessible to targetted readers. With this latest missive, he is only deepening and complicating the existing problem, and calling his leadership skills into question.
Less is more. He has created a TLDR situation for his readers, with the additional turnoff of having made it all about himself. What made the lightbulb turn on so that he could see this? Could he be another one who has been troubleshooting by reading here?
BB
I strongly suspect that after giving these sermons that Dave has someone else write them all out, and it is only later when he is questioned on a point from one of the sheep, that he realizes that he has made a serious error.
ReplyDeleteThis is most likely the result of putting one's foot in one's mouth, and coming to the point that what he said is crap. I have come across several errors that stand right out, especially errors concerning the evil Shepard.
Dave is one deceived/confused individual.
Just more nonsense from the mentality that will say (as some of them have, indeed, said) that Herbert's statements regarding prophecy WERE right . . . except for the DATES.
ReplyDeleteHuh?
I'm done with Dave for now. Time for Christmas leftovers!
What a bunch of scrap! Pure ox manure!
ReplyDeleteDavie Pack deserves absolutely NO credibility from us (or anyone else for that matter) nor should he expect any sort of respect. He is totally contemptible with no social redeeming qualities.
When the ship hits the sand, you won't be worth spit!
Allen, my experience is that the 4 letter words of Anglo-Saxon origins have lost their impact and terms like 'ox manure' get noticed if for no other reason than their novelty, which you absolutely proved by your comment.
Thanks for playing!
Novelty is a form of emphasis. I like to make use of it myself.
ReplyDeleteAllen C. Dexter
So, maximizing the usage of the root word, David Pack is deleterious to your spiritual health!
ReplyDeleteBB
ReplyDeleteHis new booklet How God’s Kingdom Will Come marks a new low.
The intro paragraph is woeful.
He needs ghostwriters!
George Michael has escaped the tribulation.
ReplyDeleteBrethren and ministry in RCG, here are a couple of questions to consider. If God wanted to reveal a new prophecy to his end time apostle do you think it would take him 52 plus tries with umpteen gazillion edits, corrections, deletions and revisions??? Is God confused??? Dave Pack began his "Greatest Story Never Told" prophecy series in November 2015. It is now December 2016 and now "large swaths" have to be removed. Can any thinking person really believe that this endless spewing of thousands of words is actually from the Creator of the universe??? He recreated the earth and all that is in it including mankind in 7 days and everything He created was perfect and it is now taking Him over a year to formulate the outcome of the end of the age??? Does God need to speculate because He hasn't been able to figure out the end of the story??? Please, brethren, open up your eyes, go to God in prayer and fasting and ask Him to show you who Dave Pack really is!!!! Our heartfelt prayers are with all of you!
ReplyDeleteThere's a conspiracy here. All the tel-evangelists, 'Christian' denominations, including the Herbie slivers are party to it. The conspiracy is that of focusing members minds on useless trivia. They pretend that this trivia it's soooo important, but in terms of everyday life, it's worthless. What the bible teaches by contrast is:
ReplyDeletePsalm 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
The churches do not dwell on, or magnify Gods laws. Those who read books that do so, are attacked with accusations of reading 'worldly' books (no definition of worldly is ever given) or reading 'Psychology Today" (sneer, sneer) magazines.
A person grows by meditating on Gods laws. A person does not grow by exclusively dwelling on endless prophesy speculation, bible history, or bible technicalities.
The emphasis is wrong, wrong, wrong.
The result? Moral confusion in all of Christendom.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteGeorge Michael has escaped the tribulation.
December 26, 2016 at 6:08 PM
Of course he made it into the Kingdom,
He was raised just miles from Bricket Wood and the Ambassador printing press.
Just crossing the motorway to Bushey Meads meeting his friend Andrew Ridgeley of "Wham" fame. If one can be guilty by association one can be holy by association.
nck
George Michael has escaped the tribulation.
ReplyDeleteReminding us yet again of one of Herbert Armstrong's prophecies that homosexuals would die... of AIDS. He had in mind a very short life of just, at most, months. But medical science persisted and what Herbert Armstrong had in mind was proved wrong.
"But," you may say, "all homosexuals die." Of course they do. It's appalling. With all the advances in technology and medical science we still have a 100% death rate. Herbert Armstrong would have been deemed more perspicacious if only he said, "I will die." And it would really add to his credit if he added, "... as a false prophet."
In this case, George Michael died. He had AIDS (same as David Ben Arial / Chuck Hoover). But as near as we can tell, he didn't die from AIDS: He seems to have died of a heart attack.
Who ever wrote Ecclesiastes got it right.
And really, no one gets a free pass -- not Herbert Armstrong and certainly not David Pack.
East Finchley, take the A1 to the M1, it seems to be 20 miles (32 kilometers)?
ReplyDeleteFrankly, the ZSL London Zoo seems closer, so he'd probably be more a wild animal than an Ambassador college associate, if we count associations with locations.
Yet another nonsensical posting from someone who thinks differently, but not necessarily sanely....
We look forward to the inevitable speculation of just what that wild animal might be....
Sweet dreams Princess Leia. See you in a thousand years time.
ReplyDeleteThe people who left Global to follow Dave Pack into RCG have escaped TO the tribulation.
ReplyDeleteBB
ReplyDeleteAnonymous on December 27, 2016 at 12:08 AM said...“A person grows by meditating on Gods laws. A person does not grow by exclusively dwelling on endless prophesy speculation, bible history, or bible technicalities.”
QUESTION: What makes all the godless old perverts and sluts in the various splinter groups think that they are better than all the godless old perverts and sluts out in the world?
ANSWER: They each think that they are better because each one of them is mindlessly following what they unthinkingly think is the one true false prophet who has all the right wrong prophetic guesses.
Black Opps,
ReplyDeleteScience has proven beyond any doubt that mental cases don't have a sense of humor.
To remain scientific.
I was referring to Radlett which is only 3 miles.
nck
Brethren and ministry have left or were put out of RCG because they did not believe Dave Pack's prophecy. To my knowledge at least five U.S. ministers and their wives, two Canadian ministers and their wives and the minister from the U.K. left with Dave Pack's outrageous prophecy being the last straw in their departure. These members all came in to RCG trusting that Dave Pack was holding fast to the teachings they had learned from Mr. Armstrong which they were able to see and prove in the Bible.That lie was just the hook to get numbers of members and most importantly their money into his hands. Dave Pack became more and more deceived as he declared himself the Elijah, when he formerly taught and wrote even in his own autobiography that Mr. Armstrong was the Elijah.Then he also assumed the title of Joshua and topped it all off by taking on the title of "That Prophet" which any Bible student knows belongs to Christ! Anyone still sitting in RCG is deceived as their leader is!!
ReplyDeleteI believe that the only reason Dave Pack is back tracking now and removing "large swaths" of his most outrageous errors and wild speculations is that he is losing members which translates into a loss of income to continue building his compound.
ReplyDeleteSince all the teachings in the Worldwide Church of God had come through Herbert W. Armstrong, he began to teach near the end of his life that he was the Elijah who was prophesied to come and “restore all things.” HWA died on January 16, 1986. Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. then took over the Worldwide Church of God and totally apostatized around January of 1995. Former WCG members then went looking for God's new chosen leader to follow. The Devil had many wicked and malicious imposters waiting to claim to be the one that you had to send your money to.
In 1989, Gerald R. Flurry got fired from the WCG, so he began to attract former WCG members and their money to his PCG cult by claiming to be faithfully following what HWA had taught. Interestingly, Gerald immediately replaced what HWA had called the “very purpose” of the church--the “great commission” to preach the gospel (or good news) of the kingdom of God to the whole world for a witness to all nations--with a new commission to warn (that is, to be totally obnoxious toward) all other former WCG members, which was really no gospel (or good news) at all! Next, Gerald claimed to be That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18. Even when Gerald flip-flopped a bit, he still kept that title and the idea that everyone had to listen to everything he said or else God would be mad at them. This enabled Gerald to do anything he pleased. The copyrights that Gerald had bought to some of HWA's writings to make it look like he was serious just enabled Gerald to seriously edit and change HWA's writings. Significantly, the old idea from HWA and the WCG that the Elijah would “turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers” got countered by Gerald's new idea of getting people to break up and cut off their families and pretend that they were doing it for God.
In 1999, David C. Pack, who had been fired from the Global Church splinter group, and who had previously been fired from the WCG, began to attract former WCG members and their money to his RCG cult by claiming to be faithfully following what HWA had taught. To show how serious he was, David wrote a booklet that proved that HWA was the Elijah. This understanding was supposedly a “great wall of defence” against doctrinal changes. David even pointed out how Gerald Flurry had gone nuts, and wrote a booklet that proved that Jesus Christ, rather than Gerald, was That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18. Then, David went nuts. David “restored” his “common” teaching that everyone had to send him everything they had--savings accounts, retirement savings plans, houses, etc.--“or no salvation if you don't!” Since David had “restored” something that HWA had never taught, David reasoned that he himself, rather than HWA, must be the Elijah who was prophesied to come and restore all things. This enabled David to do anything he pleased. David's previous booklet that had proved that HWA was the Elijah got deleted and replaced with some mind-numbing noise full of “130 PROOFS” that David was the Elijah. David's other booklet that had proved that Jesus Christ was That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18 got deleted too, so that David could be That Prophet.
Literally thousands of former WCG members have been seriously messed up and harmed by Satan's double whammy of Gerald Flurry and David Pack.
We were members of RCG, hearing Dave Pack threaten,"If you leave, "You will burn!" We fell for the "one true church" "Body of Christ" scare tactics for a while like all the COG's do. Of course, neither the "Body of Christ" or the "one true church" is an organization so it is not necessary to be in any organization to be part of either! We knew if we made our disagreement/disbelief of Dave Pack's delusional private prophecy known, we would also be disfellowshipped and lose contact with some wonderful friends we had built loving bonds with over several years. However, we were among those brethren sitting in RCG seats when Dave Pack finally did proclaim himself to be "That Prophet". We were stunned but he had already set us up by taking on the titles of Elijah and Joshua and we were still there. When you sit there and hear your leader say that he is Christ, all those scriptures concerning false prophets, false apostles, seducers, deceivers and wolves in sheep's clothing just rush into your mind. Dave Pack, thank you for the final push to get us out of your pathetic sliver cult!!! Yes, we were disfellowshipped. Some brethren have still contacted us despite the threats by HQ. How can people stay in a cult where the leader claims to be Christ? Deception! But we all have different breaking points. We pray every day that the brethren left in RCG will have their eyes opened by whatever it takes to get them out of RCG!!!
ReplyDelete"We were members of RCG, hearing Dave Pack threaten,"If you leave, "You will burn!" We fell for the "one true church" "Body of Christ" scare tactics for a while like all the COG's do. Of course, neither the "Body of Christ" or the "one true church" is an organization so it is not necessary to be in any organization to be part of either!"
ReplyDeleteAnon: I could not have said what you have stated any better. My family and I also left RCG for the very same reasons. Dave Pack has definitely gone off the deep end. We also feel for the brethren who still remain. However, many have left, and a lot more than RCG will admit publicly. Hopefully, the scam will end soon. But only if others will realize that Dave Pack is a false prophet.
8.12 PM. I don't appreciate your disagreement of my point by using misdirection.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't the first time you have done this to one of my posts. It's intellectually dishonest.
You mean you two are not the same poster? You both post under the same name.
DeleteRemember, it is not possible to make an ad hominem attack on an anonymous poster
8:12 made some very good points.
ReplyDeleteThank you, 8:12!
While checking out the current transcripts of Dave Pack's never - ending sermon series I notice that he has changed the name of his fantastical prophecy from, "The Greatest Story Never Told!" to "The Greatest Untold Story!" Interesting - maybe he realized two many people knew that a 2013 documentary series about Adolf Hitler was titled, "The Greatest Story Never Told - The Untold Story of Adolf Hitler" Dave Pack does seem to have a fascination with all things Hitler. He especially likes to talk about the Nazi torture of the Jews. We used to hear him bring it up in sermons in great detail even though there were young children, even his own grandchildren at the time, hearing them. Makes you wonder, or it should...
ReplyDelete10.48 AM let 8.12 make what ever points he wants to make, good or bad. But he should not indirectly attack my point by tacking it onto his post, and changing the topic. He also smears my point and character by adding ugly words such as slut to his comment.
ReplyDeleteHe has done this previously to my posts.
BB Ugh, it's 'not possible to make a ad hominem attack to a anonymous poster?' It happens all the time. Or are we to believe you cause BB says so?
People on blogs say and do all manner of things, not all of them kind, and not all of them by the rules. Things get read into what is said, stuff gets hijacked. Sometimes it even gets like road rage. Blogging is a big, bad world. You can't take it or yourself and your viewpoints too seriously. You've also got to realize that as an anonymous poster, you are a ghost. But, still, other posters sometimes think they recognize a literary style and attack the wrong ghost. The reason you can't make an ad hominem attack on an anonymous poster is that it is not possible to get specific with someone whom you can only guess about.
DeleteBB
PS 10.48 AM and BB, playing stupid is not a admirable trait.
ReplyDelete4.39 PM
ReplyDeleteThe Nazi thingy makes perfect sense. The message is, if you stop attending Daves church, the Nazi torturer in The Raiders of the Lost Ark movie will get you. So hand over all your money, be a good church puppet, or the torture chamber for you.
4.37 PM
ReplyDeleteTaking a few steps back and observing the splinters, it becomes obvious that God does not want the 'true' church restored at all. Otherwise it would not have splintered, or there would be a obvious faithful replacement, which there is not.
My personal conclusion? God has broken the despotic chains of Herbs ministers. Members are now free to not come to church services, or choose a non oppressive church. One can never mature while under the thumb of a despotic minister.
It's all there in the parable of the talents. No despot in sight.
A notice to regulars and lurking anons. First post in this thread by me. You CAN make an ad hominem attack on ANY poster, anonymous or not. All you need is an opinion, that's why ad hominems are usually so cheap and weak.
ReplyDeleteZak Bagans