See story here: New Home Office purchased
Grace Communion International has purchased a building in Charlotte, North Carolina for their new HQ building. Located close to the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport, it will allow easy access for ministers to fly in an out for conferences.
GCI purchased a building in Glendora , CA after selling the Pasadena campus and moved their HQ to 2011 E Financial Way.
The new facility in Charlotte offers them 27,000 sq. ft. of office space as well as a place to store the historical archives of the Radio/Worldwide Church of God/Ambassador College.
Loopnet had this:
Property Shark states that the current value of the property which includes the building and 45 acres of land to be worth around 2.3 million, though the source that sent this info says they paid close to $3,000,000.
More details here: Property Shark
This is sure to be really irksome to the Loving Living Church of God that has its HQ in Charlotte also. Perhaps they can have a joint picnic soon. Both churches now have a membership size of around 7,000 or less, each
When one steps back and looks at all of this, it is actually a sad sight to behold From a premier campus that was a showcase to the world, to HQ's in industrial parks, it is a sad conclusion to the COG empire. From 100,000+ members to hundreds and hundreds of splinter groups with 5,000-7,000 or less, it is a sad legacy to behold. Some groups are more legalistic than Herbert Armstrong ever imagined, and other groups are freed from the shackles of legalism, yet in spite of all of this, the church continues to fracture and dissolve. Eyes are now upon LCG to have issues once Rod Meredith dies and others are looking at another major split to happen in UCG as it inches closer and closer to abandoning the law and embracing grace. While I have to see that one to believe it, many say it is in the works.
Now we wait to see if Gerald Weston will take over a Welcome Basket when GCI officially moves in. It is only a short trip up the road for a friendly visit to reminisce over old times!
GCI: a pack of lying scum.
ReplyDelete"Lying scrum" may be true of GCI but they are not the only ones that Lied in the battle for followers.
DeleteEvery time the kings of Israel pleased God, eg king David, Israel's borders expanded. Every time they displeased God, their borders contracted. Herbs empire splintering and contracting is obviously the latter.
ReplyDeleteThis is what happens when the ministers put their faith in character assassination, robbing members of their adulthood/micro managing members lives, verbally bashing members, verbally tearing members down to increase their power level, practising de facto communism/socialism in the church, having a anti thinking/anti learning church culture, etc, etc.
They put their faith in bully morality, and ruin results. Surprise, surprise.
My bible warns about building your house on a foundation of sand.
Sounds good, but then you have the question of why the kingdom of Israel's most powerful kings were Omri and Jeroboam II.
DeleteI am shocked to read that GCIs membership numbers are down to 7000.
ReplyDeleteIs that worldwide or just for the U.S and is the source of information a reliable one?
Actually, these groups have all outlived their usefulness, and the expectancies of their prophecies. They really should disband. There are plenty of more highly blessed Messianic groups, with better, more loving governance, if people insist on sticking with the Old Covenant rituals.
ReplyDeleteBB
I don't know who the source is but the 7,000 figure is fairly accurate - but that's just in the U.S. The average GCI congregation in the U.S. has about 30 regular attendees - their largest church has 100 and they have many "fellowship groups" of less than 15. HQ is living mainly off the income from the invested proceeds of the Pasadena property sale.
ReplyDeleteSo CGI, in truth a splinter, wants to be physically and psychologically close to one of its 'mother' churches. It also makes it easier to 'cattle rustle' members from LCG.
ReplyDeleteI have to be in Charlotte next week for work. Now I am even less enthused, lol.
ReplyDeleteActually GCI is the mother church. LCG and all the other splinters are harlot daughters.
ReplyDeleteJoey probably would like to be available to be asked to preach Rod Meredith's funeral or at least say a few words at the graveside. It's also a very nice area to retire comfortably compared to Southern California. Probably best he waiting until I moved from the Carolinas to Oregon before he moved to the Carolinas. :)
ReplyDeleteNo no. GCI is the mother church physically but not doctrinally. As the character (blue guy) in the Guardians of the galaxy vol 2 movie put it, 'he's your father but not your daddy.'
ReplyDeleteThe splinters have not apostatised from Herb. GCI has.
PS is that you Joe T?
TOP DEFINITION
ReplyDeletegee willikers
a humorous or outdated extension of gee, which is a euphemism for Jesus.
Gee willikers, that wind's a-blowin'!
Perhaps now Gerald Flurry can fly into Charlotte on his Gee I Have One 2 -Willikers Jet to help arrange the first ,gang's all here, Apostolic, Prophet, Presiding Evangelist, Zerrubabelish, Joshuarian, "Maybe I am a Cultish Leader...so what" Homeo-pathetic and phobic Dream Weaver Gosh it's been a trip, how you guys going these days. Boy aren't we all Surprising to God?" Reunion?
Dave Pack will still have to fly standby...but he's holed up in the Castle and probably won't be able to make it.
Bob Thiel is waiting on a dream to see if he should go and Ron Weinland will only go if he can claim the most expensive suit in the room.
John Ritenbaugh is in Charlotte with his church but hasn't finished his 746 ways to keep the Sabbath Sermon yet so may not be available either.
Does GCI know that it bought a building in an industrial and slummy part of Charlotte? They might as well have saved money by staying in California and moving to Watts or Compton. Unless they are planning to live in the 'hood, Joey and friends will either have a long commute to their new HQ from the decent and non-crime-ridden residential neighborhoods of Charlotte, or they will have to commute from South Carolina.
ReplyDeleteNow we wait to see if Gerald Weston will take over a Welcome Basket when GCI officially moves in.
ReplyDeleteLiving is given to producing poisonous fruit, so GCI should be careful about any Welcome Basket they might receive, although, it's pretty clear that probably won't be a problem.
I've tried to find out what happened to the Worldwide Church of God group which met here -- they didn't seem to make it to GCI and kept the original WCG trappings for quite some time. I visited them once and it was a pathetic small group of about 10 people as I recall (some years back, now).
The nearest congregation I can find is 23 miles away from what used to be the WCG and it is called, "New Hope Christian Fellowship" which does not appear to be associated with GCI in any way whatsoever.
It makes you wonder, what gives?
It's a complete mystery to me why the GCI still exists and why in the world they'd need the facility they've purchased.
Why GCI exists? Well, strictly speaking, they exist because the 1994 staff didn't want to get a real job. :)
DeleteBut if you mean why people attend, aside from the folks who just do it out of habit and those who do it waiting for their god to openly fry Joe Jr., I don't know.
"Unless they are planning to live in the 'hood, Joey and friends will either have a long commute to their new HQ from the decent and non-crime-ridden residential neighborhoods of Charlotte, or they will have to commute from South Carolina."
ReplyDeleteAren't they members of the NRA with permits to carry.
Oh, right. God will protect them, don't you know.
The average I.Q. in the United States seems to drop at least a point a day any more, going to morons, then imbeciles and finally idiots.
Keep up the good work, America. Soon you can trash STEM and become the stupidest place on earth -- it's a good thing civics classes ended in K-12 in 1970. We wouldn't want people to know how the government is structured. It's a secret now you know. Copies of the Constitution are disappearing.
This elimination of knowledge and rationality is certainly reflected in Armstrongism, the leader in insanity and chaos with an aggressive program of lies and deception.
Civics classes ended? I had them in the 80s and 90s.
DeleteSo when is GCI going to have a true board and get away from the Joey Jr. for life model. Joey himself said he would retire and have a real board and elected president years ago.
ReplyDeleteAt least a couple of the COG splinters offer some kind of limited audited financial report. Where is the one from GCI?
At minimum there was $200 Million obtained from the WCG garage sale liquidation. There NEVER has been a fair and open accounting for where that money went.
Black Ops-
ReplyDeleteThe reason for GCI to continue is to be able to provide large salaries to a handful of people off of the $200 million they stole.
There has to be a 501c3 to keep the assets in and thus the need to keep up the front that it is a legitimate church. If invested in a typical pension style fashion, some $10 million a year would be available for distribution to the inner circle. There are certain IRS standards against inurement for a 501c3, so the operations have to appear to be larger than any true productive reason. IE they have to appear to be a real church that has some purpose. Its all a ruse!
The main post says storage space for records... I thought they destroyed all the pre-90s docs
ReplyDeleteGCI had no idea that they would eventually have a harlot daughter with a bufffoon like Bob Thiel running it.
ReplyDeleteThe only factor which ever preserved unity in the old WCG was the 100% control HWA exerted. He truly was like a Mafia don, and his temper was legendary. We can take this apart dozens of different ways, but the bottom line is that once he was out of the picture, no one person was able to exercise power in a way that held the sum-total of the parts together in one cohesive whole.
ReplyDeleteEven now, I would wager that a large percentage of the members of the various splinters just perceive their current leaders as being temporary substitutes for HWA.
We have yet to discover the agenda behind GCI's move to Charlotte. On the face of it, it would seem to be too much of a coincidence. There are so many cities across the USA, with outstanding advantages to offer, many centrally located
In the Midwest. It leads me to believe that someone has some fairly powerful insider information.
BB
Anonymous8:52 said Every time the kings of Israel pleased God, eg king David, Israel's borders expanded. Every time they displeased God, their borders contracted. Herbs empire splintering and contracting is obviously the latter.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with this is that the church is not Israel, the promises given to Israel do not apply to the WCG. To believe this is to suggest that God was pleased with the WCG for some fifty years. I don't think so.
Stephen writes:
ReplyDelete"The main post says storage space for records. I thought they destroyed all the pre-90s docs"
The archives were never destroyed. What was destroyed was inventory of thousands of booklets that were irrelevant. I had the great pleasure of throwing hundreds of those boxes out. It was wonderful to see thousands of Mystery of the Ages heading off to the Glendale dump.
The church has kept a limited number of every single thing it has published, plus artefacts, memorabilia and even the footprints of Herbert and others that were located by the steps leading up into the lower gardens. Otherwise, some idiot HWA worshipper would be trying to steal them or make a shrine next to them.
ReplyDelete“Eyes are now upon LCG to have issues once Rod Meredith dies and others are looking at another major split to happen in UCG as it inches closer and closer to abandoning the law and embracing grace. While I have to see that one to believe it, many say it is in the works.”
The local UCG minister had children who married completely outside of the COGs and ended up divorced. A nearby political animal who wanted to be “credentialed” as a UCG minister and take over the UCG congregation also had children who married completely outside of the COGs. Both of these characters brought in some of the most godless and malicious unbelievers around, and kicked out their victims. In actual practice, the UCG abandoned the law long ago.
I find it so odd and very interesting that all these churches are moving to Charlotte NC.
ReplyDeleteRitenbaugh is there, Meredith is there and now the parent org.
Seems very odd to me.
RSK said...
ReplyDeleteCivics classes ended? I had them in the 80s and 90s.
Mixed bag for K-12. There were probably a few holdouts, particularly in rural areas. Some American History classes give a flavor of civics classes, but to have an individual civics class all by itself is apparently not on the agendas of most school boards.
No, these days, a lot of school boards in the Red States want Intelligent Design (maybe AronRa will make a dent in Texas where he is running for state senate).
Ask someone under 30 years old (and in some cases 40) about the structure of the U.S. government and they're pretty clueless.
In a somewhat related topic, I happened to meet Joe Stortini, the former Pierce County Executive. He had been in government offices for decades. He told me that the members of the various parties may not have agreed, but they were still friends and they'd sit down and find solution to problems. He was appalled that apparently these days, that's totally gone and wondered where we were all going. He's sad about it and so am I.
Current politics is a mirror of Armstrongism and it is so frustrating that they simply won't admit the truth -- they fight tooth and nail to preserve their errors, lies and deceptions without ever bothering to consider that they are wrong.
I guess they just don't have to... until the money runs out.
The CGI certainly took the money and ran, but you'd think that the few of them at the top would be able to take what's left and 'retire'. Some of the scoundrels at the top have died, so the pieces of the money pie don't have to be shared among quite as many. It's interesting that there is not one whit of transparency. There also doesn't seem to be much in the way of any socially redeeming qualities either.
I went to K-12 in three major cities and individual civics classes were on the curriculum in all three. Not sure where you're getting this "shutdown" business from.
DeleteWe have yet to discover the agenda behind GCI's move to Charlotte. On the face of it, it would seem to be too much of a coincidence. There are so many cities across the USA, with outstanding advantages to offer, many centrally located
ReplyDeleteIn the Midwest. It leads me to believe that someone has some fairly powerful insider information.
People close to certain LCG HQ ministers who have old ties to WCG are well aware that those ministers can be very liberal in private, when among their closest friends. It is possible that there's enough spare cash in the GCI coffers to bring on board two or three senior LCG ministers after Rod Meredith dies. These de-defectors would then become powerful voices to help fearful LCG (and UCG, and COGWA) members escape from the bondage of Armstrongism.
At least that's what GCI executives are probably thinking. They don't realize how deep the fear and mind control have taken root, such that when one of those LCG ministers returns to GCI the typical splinter member will say, "He only did it for the pension; he is just a hireling and tool of Satan, not to be trusted."
Nevertheless, it would indeed be a coup for GCI if it could get back a couple of the most senior defectors and maybe even a couple of junior ones.
"It was wonderful to see thousands of Mystery of the Ages heading off to the Glendale dump"
ReplyDeleteRecycle people! Recycle!
Yes, little Joey did assure me that the old records were destroyed, but can we be sure we'll ever get the truth from these lads?
12.57 PM
ReplyDeleteGod is no respecter of persons, so the blessings and cursing given to Israel apply to all nations, For instance, God punished and destroyed many different nations in the old testament. Organizations are groups of people, just like nations. Perhaps not always, God still often blesses and curses.
Was God pleased with WCG for fifty years? Of course not. The church was built on a foundation of sand, resulting in its collapse on Herbs death. Herb worshippers ignore this and use Joe T as the scape goat. It's like Americas 20 trillion dollar in debt economy. It has survived for decades, but it too will collapse.
Regarding speculation as to why they chose Charlotte: it's not nefarious, it's just that Greg Williams, who is currently VP, will be made President of GCI-USA later this year when Joe retires. (Someone else, maybe Charles Fleming, will take on Joe's international role with the title Pastor General or something like that.) Greg grew up in the Asheville, NC, area (100 miles west of Charlotte) and he wants to live in NC. It's the same reason they chose to stay in CA twenty years ago: they put their HQ in the area that their leader wants to live in.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the GCI has some inside info on California falling into the ocean and they want to get the heck out of town. Any new prophesy we haven't been privvy to? Dave Pack, can you clue us in?
ReplyDeleteAnon 653 wrote: Maybe the GCI has some inside info on California falling into the ocean
ReplyDeleteMaybe they got worried about North Korea. Or someone watched Superman: The Movie (1978).
From 100,000+ members to hundreds and hundreds of splinter groups with 5,000-7,000 or less, it is a sad legacy to behold.
ReplyDeleteThat's a misleading statement. Only four of the splinter groups -- UCG, COGWA, PCG, LCG -- have more than 3,000 members. Hundreds of the so-called "groups" consist of one lunatic leader with just family and a few friends as followers... sometimes with no followers at all, just a noisy Internet presence.
Armstrongism is dead. The splinters rely on a dead man for their authority, yet with each passing year they need to reject more and more of his obsolete/failed prophecy, thus undermining their own authority. The only reason for anyone to remain in Armstrongism any longer is if that's where all their social ties reside, or if they're the right kind of sociopath to rise to power in their group.
6.53 PM
ReplyDeleteDave here. Yes California and much of America will fall into the ocean. Which is why I'm having scuba diving lessons. When Christ returns, I'II show Him my then underwater compound, and we will then both swim to Jerusalem to establish the first dominion. Any other questions?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteRegarding speculation as to why they chose Charlotte: it's not nefarious, it's just that Greg Williams, who is currently VP, will be made President of GCI-USA later this year when Joe retires. (Someone else, maybe Charles Fleming, will take on Joe's international role with the title Pastor General or something like that.) Greg grew up in the Asheville, NC, area (100 miles west of Charlotte) and he wants to live in NC. It's the same reason they chose to stay in CA twenty years ago: they put their HQ in the area that their leader wants to live in."
This is the most simple and realistic explanation for the move. Anyone would want to get out of Southern California to retire and the Carolinas are a very popular place to go. I knew Greg personally when He lived in Asheville and I pastored in Greenville. He's a very easy going person and fits the CGI mold very well I imagine after having grown up in WCG. The change would have been appealing to him and was and is a very likeable person who would defiantly not wish to retire or work in Southern California nor need to since I imagine Southern California has few CGI devotees to Joe.
The WCG to CGI switch, for better or worse depending, was the classic switch as in days of yore from the Jewish Christian version under to Peter, James and John to the Pauline Gentile version we have today in majority. I just didn't see the need or sense in historically or theologically to go around in that circle or reinvent that wheel once more personally.
However..the boys have it made for life n comfy retirement "in Him"
ReplyDelete"I went to K-12 in three major cities and individual civics classes were on the curriculum in all three. Not sure where you're getting this "shutdown" business from"
ReplyDeleteRichard Dryfuss. Direct quote. Maybe not the best source. He has an initiative pushing civics. Like Armstrongism, sounds good on the surface, but the website has missing links and empty pages -- not something that inspires confidence. You know, just like Armstrongism.
I did a spot check locally, though and it seemed to pan out -- civics was not a class around here for years and what civics the students did get was in the United States history class and not separate.
If you'll pardon the snarky sarcasm, perhaps we should all go back to having straight civics classes and McGuffey Readers, because that will certainly solve the problem... along with biology class based on Intelligent Design and chemistry teaching table top fusion. Oh, heck, forget STEM classes, they're so out there. What we need are diversity classes for Social Justice Warriors! Yay, transgender! DNA is meaningless and we shouldn't rely on this science business for anything. What we need is media savvy students who know a thing or two about Facebook and YouTube! That's all they need. Well, Twitter too, if they want to keep up with President Trump. All these new fangled things are useless because they keep cats in libraries.
[If you are confused with the previous paragraph, see -- you don't know anything! Stop getting a life!]
Armstrongism is dead. The splinters rely on a dead man for their authority, yet with each passing year they need to reject more and more of his obsolete/failed prophecy, thus undermining their own authority. The only reason for anyone to remain in Armstrongism any longer is if that's where all their social ties reside, or if they're the right kind of sociopath to rise to power in their group.
Most brilliant post of the day. Anywhere. Pretty much says it all. Could add details, but for most of us, it would be superfluous. Only thing left is to get the shovels and bury Armstrongism.
A speculation: After the move and when feasible, GCI will ask to be absorbed by one of the many Churches located in Charlotte. My guess is that they will seek a harbor with an Arminian or Neo-Calvinist denomination. If a merger is successful, the administrative piece of GCI will become a Trinitarian para-church organization. It will have no congregations but will publish and advocate in the area of the Trinitarianism, Barth and Torrance. It will change its name to something like Trinitarian Theological Institute.
ReplyDeleteWhile this seems like a good business plan with a viable business niche, it will not work because the hide bound variety of evangelicalism found in North Carolina will not be receptive to the bleeding edge Trinitarianism. So after the effort founders for a while, GCI will come to an end. The thing that might be a saver is if they can reach beyond North Carolina to an international market.
No one is asking the most obvious question.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Charlotte attracting cults like this?
All religions rely on dead men.
ReplyDeleteThat is a hell of location to have an office. None of the employees will dare live in that neighborhood. They will end up in Mint Hill with the COGites.
ReplyDelete9.46 AM
ReplyDeleteYou like many here, treat GCI as just another church. It's not. Consider how its congregations have been dissolving since its inception. It's not interested in growth, or even sustaining itself. It reminds me of people in the old WCG who took everything, and gave nothing in return. They were malevolent towards others. GCI seems to be like these people, a church of takers.
When Tkach viewed every church as the church driving a long way to church became moot
ReplyDelete"Only thing left is to get the shovels and bury Armstrongism."
ReplyDeleteThey ain't dead yet. Don't bury them while they are still alive. Armstrongism: buried alive. But still kick'n.
They r movin' to Charlotte because that's where Piltdown man lives.
ReplyDeleteNeighborhood should not be a problem. North Carolina is a concealed carry state, and permanent residents are eligible so long as they can pass the background check.
ReplyDeleteBB
Mikey wrote: No one is asking the most obvious question. Why is Charlotte attracting cults like this?
ReplyDeleteGood question, and my knowledge of the area is limited. I did notice Charlotte is considered a good city for young professionals, it has quiet streets and no shortage of graveyards.
Perhaps the last point is an ominous sign...
I've been watching YouTube videos on the book '30 years a Watchtower slave.' I can't help noticing how Herb used similar deceptive and manipulative ploys. These religious groups steal theology and mind control strategies from one another. The JWs are more upfront with their controlling ploys, while Herb used the same ploys, but was more subtle.
ReplyDeleteThe book 'Mystery of the Ages' plagiarized articles from the JWs Watchtower magazine. So how can the book be inspired by God as Herb often implied with his 'I feel that I didn't write this book.'
PS Herb used the JWs technique of knocking down other Christian denominations in order to exalt themselves.
They are moving to Charlotte because the deep state won't let Trump build a wall and the Latinos are taking over CA. Run Whitey run.
ReplyDeleteThe GCI and the UCG are both cults. The difference is that the GCI is a cult run by one man and the UCG is a cult run by a committee. As to the location of their headquarters-- it really doesn't matter. They are both on the decline as well as the other splinter groups.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete“Anonymous on May 1, 2017 at 8:54 PM said...The book 'Mystery of the Ages' plagiarized articles from the JWs Watchtower magazine. So how can the book be inspired by God as Herb often implied with his 'I feel that I didn't write this book.'”
Can you give any actual examples that support that claim? Or did you just make that up? Or did you just carelessly repeat something that someone else had just made up?
6.18 AM
ReplyDeleteMy claim comes from Kelly Marshalls online review of Mystery of the Ages. The author quotes passages and compares them to passages from JWs watchtower. They are near identical. It appears that the authors of Mystery of the ages (in fact several Herb ministers, according to posts on this site) read the Watchtower. It seems more than a coincidence that the JWs also claimed that the tribulation would start in 1975.
There is a bunch about Herbie the plagiarist. No need to make anything up...
ReplyDeletehttps://hwarmstrong.com/allen-armstrong/index.htm
HWA had a several JW books in his basement safe. They were marked up with his writing. It does not surprise me at all that he lifted things right out of their books.
ReplyDeleteThere is at least one known instance where HWA copied an entire work almost verbatim for an early booklet. At best, he was quite capable of being careless about such things.
ReplyDeleteApril 30 4:10 AM - According to Grace Communion International website, the transformed legacy Church of Herbert Armstrong claims they are an international Christian fellowship with about 50,000 members formed into 900 churches spread across 100 countries.
ReplyDeleteRichard
I remember when Flurry said California was being punished cause the man of sin was there. Now will North Carolina be the state most punished?
ReplyDeleteFlurry's problem is that the man of sin was HWA!
DeleteBB
Flurry's problem is that the man of sin was HWA!
DeleteBB
6.21 PM
ReplyDeleteIf they have 50,000 members worldwide, it should be reflected in their U.S attendance. Anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise. Or their definition of membership is dubious.
WCG/GCI has always used the number of members "on the books" as the amount of church members. This total never reflected the number who actually attended church. Church Administration employees said that actual attendance numbers were vastly lower than the "official: count of 50,000. 50,000 members do NOT attend regularly in the GCG each week. A large percentage of us are still on the books as members, even though we do not attend.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mapquest.com/directions/from/us/nc/charlotte/28227-7705/%5B2101-2399%5D-crown-centre-dr-35.145348,-80.732550/to/us/north-carolina/charlotte/28273-3335/3120-whitehall-park-dr-35.148022,-80.943593
ReplyDeleteWow LCG and CGI Will be about 30 minutes apart. LOLOLO
Why live in Mint Hill with all of LCG when they can live in South Carolina... the taxes are way lower in SC and Lake Wily is right there and they can get lake front property. And the commute would be a lot better.
ReplyDeleteAnd they can get much nicer homes in SC. LOLO