The latest issue of The Journal is online.
This issue covers past history of the church and college with the sale of Big Sandy to Alert Academy. Alert Academy is the brainchild of Bill Gothard who has been accused of sexual improprieties and other things. Many class ALERT as a cult. See: Owners of Big Sandy Campus (ALERT Academy) Being Sued
There is an article about Vik Kubik and UCG members helping clean up after Hurricane Harvey.
There is a couple of small announcement about Joe Tkach retiring and his replacement, Greg Williams.
The article by Brian Knowles has some interesting tidbits about Herbert Armstrong, such as:
Herbert W. Armstrong was sitting at his desk reviewing Plain Truth copy with me. It was either 1978 or 1979. I was serving as managing editor of the Worldwide Church’s flag- ship publication.
Mr. Armstrong took a personal interest in every word that appeared in it. He then elaborated on his discovery that he could detect similarities between himself and the pontiff: “Brian, I have reserved the setting of all doctrine to myself.”
By the mid-’70s Mr. Armstrong had a limited capacity to study Scriptures and even to read.
He was running mostly on memory and momentum.
His short-term recollection often failed him. On one occasion he denied from the pulpit that Wayne Cole, Robert Kuhn and I had been to see him in Tucson about the “STP,” the Systematic Theology Project. We had all gone together in Mr. Armstrong’s own plane, but guess who people believed.
On another occasion he denied having attended the Feast in Florida. That people were able to produce videotapes of his preaching there didn’t seem to phase him.Herbert Armstrong's denial from the pulpit that he knew nothing about the STP was a blatant lie. Many of those papers went straight to his desk and he read them. At this same time he was so mad at GTA that he would do anything to discredit him and this was his chance
Dave Havir has an article on prophecy and it will cause major butthurt for Almost-ordained Bob Thiel and Pharisee Malm:
People who are familiar with my writing and speaking are probably familiar with my approach to prophecy.
I am interested in hearing the prophecy interpretations of people.
I have no interest in hearing the prophecy interpretations of people who claim to speak for God with their dogmatic proclamations.
Alton Billingsley is back with another of his bat-shit crazy articles. Apparently, the eclipse of 1918 was a sign of when Jesus started using Herbert Armstrong. Also, the name Eugene, OR was prophetically significant for Herbert's rise to power.At times I am willing to share my interpretations of prophecy, but I have learned to avoid the mistake of being a dogmatic proclaimer. Every dogmatic proclaimer I have heard (including those among the Church of God) has proven to earn the classification of a false prophet
The 1918 eclipse began in Bend, Oregon, very close to Eugene, Oregon, where Jesus Christ began using Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong in 1933 (Eugene = Good Birth). History reveals that year was the turning point in World War I, for Germany began losing the war against France, Britain and America.According to Billingsley, Hillary Clinton is still going to be elected and the eclipse of 2017 was a sign of the end times.
You can read Issue 198 here: The JournalPresident Hillary Clinton (?)—She will be the 45th president (cf. Isaiah 3:12; Nahum 3:13). This adds up to the number NINE and has the meaning of divine judgment; the final president before being conquered by the Holy Roman Empire.
Foreboding of Doom
—As already noted, the recent total solar eclipse has the dreaded and terrible meaning of doom for Manasseh (Ezekiel 5:12; 7:5-9). It is truly a time of fasting and prayer.
As a member in the 1970s, I recall Herb claim over and over, that STP was all done behind his back while he was overseas meeting world leaders. How could he have not known? Even then, it sounded like a childish lie.
ReplyDeleteAh, the 'good old days' when he was revered, and members kept talking about his writings being included in a extended version of the bible one day. Everyone, turn to the book of Herb, chapture 4 verse 5.
I thought Brian Knowles provided a somewhat balanced analysis of HWA. Any baby steps in the right direction are vastly superior to the Herbolatry that some have promoted in the past, and still do today.
ReplyDeleteIt was indeed confusing to see articles at the end of the Journal continued to pages prior to those articles! That was a new one on me!
The people who take out the ads really should be taken to task and righteously ridiculed just as much as we regularly do with some of the other tragic figures from Armstrongism. It would be better for them to ease into medical marijuana for their final years than to be spreading a farce.
BB
STP - I remember the "must play" tape of HWA's sermon in which he denied knowledge of the project. He said someone had casually mentioned STP to him, and that was the first time he ever heard of it. He said his immediate reaction was, "STP? Isn't that something you put in your car?"
ReplyDeleteBrian Knowles article on HWA is right on the money...couldn't have said it better myself.
ReplyDeleteKnowles:That people were able to produce videotapes of his preaching there didn’t seem to phase him.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't that be 'faze'?
I second Brian Knowles article and observations!
ReplyDeleteWow.
I didnt realize until today that the Joseph Tkach building was adorned with 4 symbols of "darnkness, evil, satan the devil and moloch baal, and the freemason symbol of "a spirit awaiting to enter another body." As burned in many "secret" ceremonies of the elites. This beats any story on the symbolism of the Pasadena Campus
nck
HWA, I believe, put his need and wants above the church's by surrounding himself with yes men. He wanted loyalty to himself, above all else. From what Brian writes, I wonder if any objective assessment of HWA would find him to be qualified to be an elder of a church according to I Tim 3. The same could be said of GTA and other top people. By putting loyalty to himself first, he may have laid the foundation for the church's collapse after he died. To fire people without giving them a fair hearing is flat out wrong. This is why most of the time when "elders" is mentioned in the NT it is in the plural. With a plurality of leaders, rather than one top leader, these extremes and abuses of power would be avoided.
ReplyDeleteAnd here the whole time I thought S-T-P meant "Stop Teenage Pregnancies" or at least that it was some liquid you put in your car!
ReplyDeleteYou learn something new every day!
As Knowles said, HWA became "paranoid". The Ambassador Report by then would pillory him on a regular basis, his credibility was shredded, he was becoming an embarrassment. So what does he do? He doubles-down becoming an even greater POWER-MAD TRYANT, flip-flopping on make-up, seeing a conspiracy with the STP...
ReplyDeleteI have a copy of the STP and I don't see a problem with it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I mentioned that to an elder some years back he seemed rather upset that I didn't....lol
I just read the Grace article on page three of the Journal. Christian churches love to saturate their radio and TV programs and writings with grace and forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteDo I strive to forgive? Heck no, I strive to respect peoples rights and not harm others, so that the issue of forgiveness does not arise.
These churches should be shouting from a mountain top to not wrong others. Instead it's endless 'be quick to forgive,' 'don't let the sun goes down on your anger,' etc. And they finish it off with the blackmailing, extortionist 'unless you forgive others, the Lord Jesus will not forgive your sins.' The purpose of this biased presentation is to create a paradise for red neck losers.
Thankfully the lord Jesus is about to beat the crap out of these losers with His tribulation. Vengeance sweet vengeance.
Not forgetting, after their beating, they will be forgiven.
I wouldn't read too much into the owls. In the desert, they've become similar in usage to the scarecrow. You can walk or drive through various neighborhoods, and see wood or clay replicas of owls on roofs. Especially on roofs of houses on the periphery of the golf course. It's for vermin control. If indeed Joe Tkach was personally responsible for putting the owls up, I doubt seriously that he researched myths or symbolism from past history. Someone probably innocently picked them up at a local feed store for him.
ReplyDeleteAlso, in modern times in Western civilizations, the owl is associated with wisdom. The wise old owl. Nobody knows what various pagans or the ancient Babylonians might have attached in terms of legend or significance, except some of the more extreme Pharisees common to Armstrongism.
BB
I have one on the balcony of my house to keep birds from dropping turds out there. Never knew it held such OMGSYMBOLISM!
DeleteWe would be remiss if we didn't note that Brian Knowles' description of HWA's mental condition subtly plays into the hands of those who have contended that the man was no longer capable of choosing a successor near the time of his death.
ReplyDeleteThe paranoia described, lack of trust in anybody surrounding him, and the forgetfulness of points on which he had embraced correction are all indicative of feebleness, although he was apparently still capable of barking authoritatively as others fearfully complied.
In any case, it would be difficult for either side in the great abyss to credibly cite God's guidance in HWA's latter day decisions. Some have contended that the man had left his own church shortly following Loma's death, as he embarked on his photo ops with the rich and powerful. He's not the first jet setter who was famous for having once been famous, involved primarily in international charity as opposed to current trend-setting accomplishments.
It is interesting that the Journal allows these aspects to be explored. A few short years ago, there was more control exerted over the history and legacy. Good to see more openness, as I know this paper is widely read by splinter members from the diaspora of groups. Could be another arm in reaching the still-scammed.
BB
Good article from Brian Knowles. Reading that article, I keep seeing closer parallels with HWA and Donald Trump by the minute.
ReplyDeleteLOL! Jesus is gonna beat the crap out of some redneck losers with His Tribulation. Well, thats an interesting way of envisioning the dogma.
ReplyDelete8:46 AM says
ReplyDelete"Do I strive to forgive? Heck no".
The Bible says "forgive us as we forgive each other". Christ tells Peter he must forgive his brother 70 x 7, meaning without limit.
Yeah, I know.
ReplyDeleteImagine.
Hey Joe what do we do with these items I found in the basement? It says present by Rothchild Jerusalem digs. Ah well ....... put them on the roof for vermin control....
Nck
7:42 AM
ReplyDeletesays "I have a copy of the STP and I don't see a problem with it."
I also have a copy, which I got online. I believe Robert L. Kuhn did a lot the work on STP. If STP would have been put into action, it would have made a major step forward removing wrong church teachings and cultish practices.
Your minister having a issue shows there are still HWA worshippers in COG.
So HWA knew about the STP. And to think so many then and even today will just choose to believe what HWA happened to say regardless of contrary evidence.
ReplyDelete***
On page 16 in its obituary for William Dankenbring it is stated that he was disfellowshipped from WCG in 1980. Somehow I had been under the impression that he was disfellowshipped after HWA's death. It is good to know better.
***
On page 2 one of the letters seeks to defend one Robert Spencer.
"Although Robert Spencer has never advocated violence or lawlessness, he is banned from the U.K., PayPal and Amazon for his articles critical of Islam at [website name]."
Actually his books are still available on Amazon. Also PayPal backed down on their decision to stop processing transactions concerning his organization. But one really should wonder if it is a good idea to listen to Spencer when even PayPal, even PayPal, does not want to be connected with him. Turns out saying "there is no moderate Islam" over and over again might make people think the speaker himself is not moderate.
I watched the dear but theologically uneducated (even by AC standards) secretary who was responsible for typing up the STP struggle with a set of extremely confusing notes with marginal additions and directions and criss-crossing arrows galore. I helped assemble one paragraph from that mess. After seeing a bit of the process that made it, I never had much respect for the output.
ReplyDeleteBut it was a vast improvement over the vast array of magazine articles, booklets, radio programs and sermons that constituted WCG's theological beliefs.
The STP account is similar to that of rescinding the makeup doctrine: HWA discusses it with a group of ministers, authorizes the change and writes a statement explaining the change. Then, he goes off on another overseas event, and when he returns, blames GTA and others for making the change behind his back, and accuses them of putting his name on an unauthorized statement.
ReplyDeleteAnon 318 wrote (regarding STP) But it was a vast improvement over the vast array of magazine articles, booklets, radio programs and sermons that constituted WCG's theological beliefs.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's probably why HWA didn't want it written. Then his belated response was Mystery of the Ages.
I read the STP once. I wasnt born yet when it was issued, but after hearing people likening the Tkach "changes" to it I found it later online. It was pretty boring and I dont think I read very far into it. I got the impression that the fuss over the project had more to do with HWA's personal insecurity issues and the manual itself was just fuel for the fire.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed Brian Knowles' article and think it is balanced. Some at AC called him Brian Know-les. I remember hearing him preach at the auditorium that the Olivet prophecy had to have been written after 70 A.D. because it describes the destruction of Jerusalem. I asked Gunar Freibergs, sitting next to me, if I had heard correctly. He reckoned I had, so I asked him why Brian would say that. Gunar told me I would have to ask Brian.
ReplyDeleteI realize that HWA has made his way into many nasty legends, but I am always reminded that the guy who probably knew him best, Aaron Dean, seems to have a high regard for him. To me, that is significant.
1.03 PM
ReplyDeleteI didn't say I that I don't forgive, I said I don't strive to do so. Please, no straw man arguments. Forgiveness assumes that people repent. In my decade in the church, that was rare. People either didn't repent or just lay low for awhile before going back to their old ways. So the point of forgiveness was largely academic. No thriving to forgive was necessary. The author would know this from personal experience as well. Which is why the article is all wrong and intellectually dishonest.
What is typically advocated under the table by such articles is a world where sinners can run wild, and the victims are supposed to not react and pretend that this is acceptable. 'Forgiveness' is hijacked into a magic wand that wipes away the natural reaction and consequences of sin. It creates a wet dream alternate reality for sinners.
Christ will have non of this nonsense, the 'God is not mocked' thingy.
The core of Christian successful living is getting in harmony with Gods laws, eg as pointed out in the first chapter of Psalms. This and repentance is what Christian leaders should be shouting to the world. But instead, it's this crackpot 'forgiveness.'
What is your basis for believing that forgiveness assumes that people repent? It is interesting to me that Peter told the crowd in Acts 2 to repent and be baptized on account of (or because of) forgiveness. It is also interesting to me that Passover, which portrays forgiveness, precedes the Feast of unleavened bread, which portrays repentance.
Deletelate-70's HQ radicalism: "Olivet prophecy had to have been written after 70 A.D."
ReplyDeleteWhen HWA away, the boys were at play..
When HWA return,their project he spurn
Gordon Feil wrote: "Aaron Dean, seems to have a high regard for him. To me, that is significant."
ReplyDeleteI imagine that if you were very close to the top man in his last years, that would be a real feather in your cap. Wouldn't you want to believe that HWA was a wonderful person? Wouldn't it enhance your image more if the person you cared for was a great person, rather than a fraud? How objective could Aaron Dean be assessing the character etc. of HWA? I think confirmation bias might enter into this.
I am sure there was some of that. And I am sure there was also love bias: "love believes all things quotation." Nonetheless, being with someone year after year, month after month, day after day, hour after hour does allow a person to see a lot of hidden flaws. There are limits to confirmation bias.
Delete1:43
ReplyDeleteOh Please.
You are not even able to forgive on a Godly plane.
Only God is able to forgive sins and grant eternal life.
You are only to able to "forgive" on a human plane and thereby rescue some of your own personal character that was hurt and damaged by other sinners.
nck
There is no rational explanation for the intense admiration one individual has for another, and that admiration is not always a blanket recommendation to all others of the admired one. There's a lot that goes on in this process, mentally, psychologically, and philosophically. One person may overlook shared flaws, or he might accept the flaws because there are other factors which transcend them.
ReplyDeleteThere also can be factors which cause one person to "last" with another. Relationships often have shelf-life. They can last a lifetime, be fleeting in nature, or something in between. Two good "alpha" people may not see eye to eye and get along. Good people can come under the influence of bad people, and bad people can be patiently mentored to by good ones. It's a jungle out there.
Back in the '80s, there was a cool video to support John Mellencamp's "Authority Song". Mellencamp was portrayed as a suave hoody type with rolled up sleeves symbolically fighting authority, authority being personified by a skilled boxer in the ring. A young boy watches from the sidelines, rooting for him. As in the words of the song, "authority" ends up winning, Mellencamp being defeated by his opponent. Saddened at first, the young boy is seen leaving the arena in a state of dismay. And then, suddenly, he rolls up his sleeves and smiles defiantly. The video is on youtube, I just checked.
We can't fully know what went into Aaron Dean's relationship with HWA. Stan Rader lasted a long time, too, and I've not seen a lot of positive commentary regarding that. HWA's entire family seemed to live in fear of him. These rationships seem to have required much sacrifice and subservience, and we don't know that they were always a bed of roses. They may say more about the submissive one than they do about the dominant one. And, of course, the submissive is the one who is really in control, having the ability to pull the plug and walk away at any time.
BB
Re: my comments at 12:39, the Cliff's Notes would be that Aaron Dean, in microcosm, depicts the permanent members of Herbert Armstrong's church.
ReplyDeleteBB
Nck
ReplyDeleteOh please, not the 'you are only hurting yourself if you don't forgive' mantra.
If someone damages your car, do you forgive or insist that they pay for the damage?
You don't practise what you preach, do you?
Gordon
Luke 17.3 '...if your brother trespass against the, rebuke him: and if he repents forgive him.'
So yes, forgiveness does assume repentance. In case you missed it, the definition of forgiveness is agreeing to pay for anothers sin/mistake. So how can one survive and prosper if forgiveness is a entitlement. How can anyone survive if forced to pay for others blunders??
Repentance also means agreeing to make restitution (if possible) for the sin committed. Something left out by the Journal article. So typical of 'forgiveness'. articles.
The word used as "forgive" there is "aphes". It's a word that seems to mean to leave something be. In other words, once he's repented, you no longer need to rebuke him.
Delete7:15
ReplyDeleteMy comment was from a psychological phylosophical angle.
My friend! How do you ask for recompense if your family is wiped away in a concentration camp? 50.000 dollar for your sister. 8000 dollars for a slave?
A loaf of bread stolen by a hungry 15 year old lad from Londen. Send him to Australia?
How do I ask you for compensation for wrecking the ozone layer and by defenition my properties in Miami today?
Not trying to change your opinion here. Just iron sharpening iron.
Nck
Oops, did the author of the Lukan gospel fix the problem of unconditional forgiveness in Matthew?
ReplyDeleteGordon Feil said...The word used as "forgive" there is "aphes". It's a word that seems to mean to leave something be. In other words, once he's repented, you no longer need to rebuke him.
ReplyDeleteThat was an interesting point, especially when one realizes that it is God who grants one repentance AND forgiveness:
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for TO GIVE REPENTANCE to Israel, AND FORGIVENESS of sins.
Israel will come up in the 2nd resurrection (there is no 3rd) and God will grant that repentance, which means "change," thanks to the receipt of a new heart/spirit from God. That would do wonders for anybody; wouldn't it, when God does it?
It's just part of a Plan of Salvation to save humanity and subsequently take and destroy Satan (I John 3:8; Heb 2:14; Ezek 28:19; I John 3:8) and his angels.
As the Apostle Paul said: "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT IMPUTING their trespasses unto them..." 2 Cor 5:19
At that time it will be a time to let "something" be...a time for "no longer to rebuke!"
There is a time and place for everything, so it seems.
But, time will tell...
John
John
ReplyDeleteGod grants repentant and forgiveness to todays Christians, but look how so many misbehave and have fallen away. It's as if repentance and forgiveness is 'over rated.'