Give us all of your information!
Just received this from an LCG source:
We have just been informed that all LCG members will soon be receiving a call from their pastor, or his designated handler, to verify all family information. this is being dine under the guise that LCG records are not up to date and they need to make sure their family and individual profiles are accurate.
The church has been having a huge issue over the last year or so with membership not attending services as regularly as they used to. Many LCG members are frequently attending with other COG's now that Weston has assumed power. So many are disgusted by the corruption in the church and the increased number of rules and legalistic demands that Weston has placed on members so that some have chosen to attend elsewhere at times and also to give tithe money to other groups occasionally, or to hold on to it.
Part of this "accuracy check" is also letting ministers determine if the members are still paying tithes. When membership drops, income drops and the powers to be start scrambling to determine what is going on. LCG is also looking at information on how often members are attending church.The Church of God has had a long history of using member checks to verify tithing income levels. Pasadena WCG routinely went through tithing records of members and employees and used those records to determine job status and perceive income levels that they used to determine how much tithe money members should be sending in. Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry have taken this spying on members to new levels and have used it as a tool to threaten salvation and membership status. Being disfellowshipped and publicly humiliated in the pulpit by public vilification frightens many people into toeing the line.
This appears to be one more tool in monitoring members and keeping them in line and compliant. The good thing is that many LCG members are no longer toeing the company line and have started to think for themselves.
From an ex-WCG member perspective, where do I go? The UCG appears to becoming more Laodician. The LCG's leader is even more of a dictator them the deceased leader. Then there are the insane Packs and Flurry's out there. Could it be that the only logical answer is to leave all these cultic groups and re-enter the real world?
ReplyDeleteGo back to the mother church---the good old church of god seventh day.
DeleteGordon Feil, My wife and I left Radio Church Of God back in 1967 and began attending a 7th Day Church Of God. It truly is a blessing to be apart of a church that is alive and well and not in the least bit dead as Herbert Armstrong used to claim.
DeleteNever, EVER tell your minister your personal & private life!!!
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteREMEMBER: The FACT that the PCG and RCG are satanic frauds does not mean that the LCG is the answer. HWA pointed out in a letter that RCM had the will to rule, but not the qualifications.
Not too much of a surprise in this. When we've had our discussions here about oppressive authority and pastoral abuse, there actually have been members of UCG and the COGaWA who protested, and claimed it wasn't so in their splinters. Not so with RCG, PCG, and LCG. More like members have verified the oppression and abuse in those three groups.
ReplyDeleteSo, Weston and the boys think this is going to strengthen and build up LCG? Seems like a foolish David-like census. But, then again, LCG has continually manifested fatal learning disabilities throughout their past.
BB
All the COGs are religious versions of Orwell's 1984. It's tyranny, pure and simple. I've been free of it since 1975. No life is free of some kind of problems, but mine certainly got better fast as soon as I voted with my feet.
ReplyDeleteFrom 'The art of war' by Sun Tzu: 'information is ammunition.'
ReplyDeleteThe ministers and bullies are aware of this, which is why they are secretive.
They demand that others be naïvely open while they hide and lie about their true character and motives (Pharisees).
9.23 PM
ReplyDeleteGeorge Orwells book 'Animal farm' is equally applicable to these churches. It's about Stalins Russia, but it also describes todays XCOGs since history repeats itself. The (overfed) pigs in the book represents the ministers. The ones who have 5 star hotel accommodation and food paid for by members tithes during the feast of Tabernacle.
And the pigs motto? 'Every animal is equal but some are more equal than others.'
There's a high quality 1954 cartoon portrayal of the book. It's on YouTube. The heartlessness of the pigs in the movie is hard to watch. Educationally, it's worth watching.
To parody Princess Leia, The more you tighten your grip, the more members will slip through your fingers.
ReplyDelete@ 7:49, YES!
ReplyDeleteIf you tell someone a lie repeatedly they will eventually believe it even though at first they clearly see it as a lie. That is why there are so many longtime members of Armstrongism who just can't see the truth about this cultic religion. It is so ingrained in their thinking. The lies have been so persistently preached to them for so long that it is extremely hard for them to see the truth.
ReplyDeleteWhy do people ask, "Where do I go?", my dad had the same question for me when I confronted him regarding Pack's inconsistencies. Why is Christ himself not good enough? These "leaders" put themselves on the same level as the Pope but pawn it off as something completely different. Anytime anyone says/writes to members and tells them that he is a "father to them, as HWA was a father to me", is doing that. Where is the courage and strength to tell these jokers where to go and what they can do with their nonsense? I realize that most members are sincere in their beliefs but at some point when is enough, enough? Looking back on things, I can say I was one of the believers, I never questioned, I trusted what I was being told, but we all have to grow up sooner or later.
ReplyDeleteI never attended WCG, so LCG was my first experience of Armstrongism.
ReplyDeleteThe first couple of times I came to an LCG sabbath service, I noticed that someone was taking attendance, and this was such a big turn-off that I almost stopped attending. Maybe if you grew up in WCG you find it normal that people would take attendance in church, but in the real world it just doesn't happen that often, certainly not every week. Unfortunately, I didn't trust my gut and leave, so in due time the minister said he wanted to get to know me better. When I offered to buy him dinner at a local restaurant he refused and said he wanted to see me at home. Unfortunately, I didn't trust my gut and tell the busybody to mind his own business.
About a month later, the "regional pastor" came to sabbath services as a guest speaker. When we chatted after services, I realized that he knew quite a bit about me already, and that he must have talked to the local minister. This should have been enough to send me out the door, realizing what a controlling environment I had entered, but it took me several years to break free. What an idiot I was!
Ugghh thanks for sharing your experience. I did trust my gut instinct and never went past first base with LCG. I read experiences like these and breath a sigh of relief.
DeleteAnon 10:36 PM:
ReplyDeleteWhich LCG minister has kept a box of cigars in a closet in his home?
Which son of a leading LCG minister has had a subscription to Hustler magazine?
Which LU faculty member has kept a small Buddhist idol in his study?
Which LCG HQ minister has followed the common Jewish practice at Passover of having his non-ACOG neighbor hold on to any leavened items instead of wasting money by throwing them away?
Information is only ammunition if those who have it are able to use it. If LCG members could hold their ministers to the same standard that the minister-bullies insist on for members, LCG would be a very different group.
ATTENTION : WESTON, FLURRY , PACK, WEINLAND etc-
ReplyDeleteAll of your pets (members) MUST be licensed, spayed, neutered, restrained on leash, and ID chipped, or they will be rounded up by animal control.
If they did that, you would still be attending the PCG. You speaking on this website is hilarious, since you only experienced the PCG as a teenager with hormones.
DeleteTeenager with hormones in PCG, Connie?
Delete"...and the increased number of rules and legalistic demands that Weston has placed on members..."
ReplyDeleteI'm curious as to what those might be....anyone have any examples?
In light of the recent shooting at a Baptist church in Texas as well as the 2005 Terry Ratzmann incident in the Living Church of God (several folks were not "living" after that happened), it would be wise for LCOG ministers poking around in personal information to check the firearms that members should take to church. Make sure all concealed carry permits are up to date, firearms are clean and ready to deploy, and that members are practicing use of their weapons just in case. It would be unwise to overlook such vital details. These days you never know when rapid lethal response might be needed.
ReplyDeleteLOL! Wow this is GREAT AWESOME LEFT REPORTING! (Not a roaring fan of Trump... that's not what I'm saying)... But this smells just like the skewed reporting of this event!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/11/06/anti-trump-media-makes-up-fake-story-about-overfeeding-fish-at-japanese-koi-pond.html
I guess anything can be twisted to look and feel evil. You should be proud for making yourself easy to discern. It makes it easy to read things here with a spoon of salt. Thank you.
12:40
ReplyDeleteI find your assessment of "animal farm" amusing in light of the fact that that exact movie was a nightime "feast activity" at our 1977/78 ish FOT site, with all attending being extremely entertained.
nck
7.37 AM
ReplyDeleteErr, are you sure that you're on the right blog?
Are you drunk or is your eye sight failing from old age?
Anon 9:53 AM, When I read 7:37 AM's comment I was wondering the same thing you asked. Apparently some people comment when they are drunk, stoned or maybe can't read very good. LOL
DeleteThose that claim LCG will not be monitoring tithes have their head in the ground. Before I stopped working in Charlotte, that was one of the things I was told to do.
ReplyDeleteI think 7:37 is trying to say the "information update" is more benign than the "LCG source" makes it out to be.
ReplyDeleteHaving not ever been a member of LCG, I have no particular opinion. However, given the recurring stories about the old WCG's misuse of member information, I say 7:37 is going to have to accept that there's going to be some automatic shade and suspicion over this.
ReplyDelete“Living Church of God To Soon Start Additional Monitoring Of All LCG Families”
A serious cult should have full access to all bank accounts of all members, so it can see all their income deposited, and have the ability to automatically withdraw their numerous tithes owing and many special offerings or building fund donations that it needs or wants, or any other amounts for any other reasons that it dreams up. This way, the members will not have to worry so much about “accidentally” forgetting to hand over some money and burning in heck for the unpardonable sin of this greatest of all oversights. Why risk burning in heck over $1.39 that you forgot to send in, especially when you have already sent in tens of thousands of dollars, or maybe even hundreds of thousands of dollars? The automatic deduction scheme will ensure that you always give generously. Maybe even too generously! Doesn't that make you happy?
In Dave Pack's superior cult, all income from everyone's employment, etc, should be direct deposited to Dave's own personal bank account, and Dave can then give exactly ten percent (a full tithe) [or more likely less than that] of it back to the person who originally earned it to live on. This way, Dave can be sure to get his 90% or more. If you are miserly and try to hold back anything, it will be your own fault if Dave blows up yet again and has to yell and spit about it some more. Dave loves a cheerful muggee.
Cameras should be set up in the homes of all cult members to keep watch over them for their own good. It is important that there be cameras in their bedrooms and bathrooms to make sure that they are not doing anything there that they should not be doing. The higher-level cult voyeurs will really appreciate this modern convenience. Only those cult members who have something to hide (such as what they mistakenly thought were their private parts) will object to this.
Permanent GPS recording ankle bracelets are a must for the cult members so they can be accurately tracked everywhere they go, to see that they are not wasting time on their own selfish activities. People's cell phones are already tracking them everywhere they go anyway, and being used to sell them stuff. Wouldn't it be even better to have their own cult track them for their own good? Cult members need to put in their time doing free labor on the cult compound. Remember, “Work brings freedom,” or so said a German sign at the entrance to a train's final destination back in the 1940s.
Big papa cares about you, and wants what he thinks is best for you, little cult sheeple!
It boggles my mind how people can still be wedded to the belief they have to observe a certain day of the week as a restrictive sabbath, when it's abundantly clear that the creation story in Genesis is a load of nonsense. The earth is billions of years old. Man in all of his evolutionary stages a few million, and modern man, along with the neanderthals, denisovans, etc. is a few hundred thousand. As soon as that realisation hit me, I not only wanted nothing more to do with sabbath keeping but also with any other religious observances on Sunday, etc. And, I don't worry a bit about what might happen to me as a result of my choice. God is not a paper tiger, he's an empty air make believe tiger.
ReplyDeleteOh, and how come we're back to having to navigate those stupid pictures when posting?
ReplyDeleteAllen C. Dexter on November 6, 2017 at 5:50 PM said...
“It boggles my mind how people can still be wedded to the belief they have to observe a certain day of the week as a restrictive sabbath, when it's abundantly clear that the creation story in Genesis is a load of nonsense. The earth is billions of years old. Man in all of his evolutionary stages a few million, and modern man, along with the neanderthals, denisovans, etc. is a few hundred thousand. As soon as that realisation hit me, I not only wanted nothing more to do with sabbath keeping but also with any other religious observances on Sunday, etc.”
Herbert W. Armstrong was what is known as an “old earth” creationist, NOT a “young earth” creationist who thinks that the earth is only about 6,000 years old. HWA taught that the earth had existed long before the creation of man, and that it had originally been inhabited by Lucifer and his angels, who rebelled against God, wrecked the place, and turned into the Devil and his demons. God then renewed the face of the earth as described in Genesis chapter 1. After completing the six-day restoration, God ceased from his work of creating and made the 7th day holy. While God himself did not need to rest, he had just finished creating the first man Adam and knew that people could use a weekly rest. Many people today in China don't have God's “restrictive sabbath” as you call it, and get to work seven days a week, whether they want to or not.
Notice that Lucifer had already gone bad, turned into Satan the Devil, and was on Earth in the Garden of Eden to tempt and deceive Eve, the first woman. Notice also that written human history only goes back about 6,000 years. And yet, people like to throw around figures of millions and billions of years. I remember one man commenting to me that he got a kick out of reading in the newspaper about “scientists” deciding to double the age of the earth.
Notice that the Bible teaches the weekly, seventh-day Sabbath. This is not something that HWA made up. The Jews who preserved the Old Testament of the Bible in the original Hebrew language believe this. The biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath is mentioned in dictionaries, encyclopedias, and books about world religions. It is extremely interesting that professing Christians in the Roman Catholic Church and its numerous Protestant daughter churches just cannot get over their satanic hatred of the biblical, weekly, seventh-day Sabbath, and insist on observing the first day of the week, called Sunday, instead. It is as if the Devil is still around and deceiving the whole world.
Next thing you know, LCG is going to want to track all you guys' GPS locations thru your cell-phones or Facebook, and require you to be tagged with RFID chips like an endangered species. Oh, and they'll soon be getting police software so they can track your debit card and credit card purchases. Think I'm kidding? They'll tell you they need this accountability for your own protection, so you don't slip, and fall away!
ReplyDeleteBB
Allen
ReplyDeleteI discovered as a teenager that I was more productive by taking a day off a week. I mentioned this to one of my school friends, who tried it, found it true, and so made it part of his weekly routine.
It makes sense to take one day a week off.
So the solution to a church not prospering is more tyranny. And if that doesn't work, then increase the dosage of tyranny.
ReplyDeleteIncrease it more and more until you have the Living church of Borg.
Judging from move of the comments on this website, seems to me it would save a lot of time to stop the Journal alright. Perhaps these commentators would have more time to read the Bible if they were so inclined, that reply to such topics as I see here. Reading the Bible is never a waste of time, and doing what it says will cost your entire LIFE, so I really don't expect any will actually try Christianity: who does the entire words of the Sermon on the Mount, anyway. Give and don't ask back, turn the other cheek, love your enemies. I don't see that attitude here at all.
ReplyDeleteI think you're looking for the "As Bereans Did" blog, Margaret Walker.
DeleteIt is my understanding that Scripture never mentions any Sabbath (Saturday) gatherings by Christians for fellowship or worship. However, there are clear passages that mention the first day of the week. For instance, Acts 20:7 states that “on the first day of the week we came together to break bread.” In 1 Corinthians 16:2 Paul urges the Corinthian believers “on the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income.” Since Paul designates this offering as “service” in 2 Corinthians 9:12, this collection must have been linked with the Sunday worship service of the Christian assembly.
ReplyDeleteThe Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday. The argument that a king or a Pope changed "the Sabbath" hundreds of years after Jesus is, I think, bogus. I can find nine of the ten commandments repeated after Pentecost, but not the one calling for the Sabbath to be observed. Why is that?
Margaret
ReplyDeleteWe are told to live by every word of God rather than just Margaret Walkers cherry picked verses. Even you don't live exclusively by your cherry picked verses. You couldn't survive otherwise.
I suggest you read Davids Psalms to expand your map of reality. Christ affirmed both king David and quoted from Psalms, so it has His approval.
Oh, I know people need a cycle of rest and fully support a limited hours work week, although the slave drivers who control this world wouldn't agree. I was self-employed for many years and chose when and how I rested. It had nothing to do with what some imaginary god supposedly commanded. I also am well aware of what Herb taught, so no one needs to school me on it.
ReplyDeleteSteve D:
ReplyDeleteGreat post!
I think it must also be noted that John Calvin and the Puritans most definitely treated Sunday as THE Christian Sabbath and are the guilty ones that gave 7th day cheerleaders so much ammunition... We still have Blue Laws to this day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritan_Sabbatarianism
LCG absolutely monitors who and how much is being sent to HQs by the members. How else do they know how to balance their unfair justice/favoritism scales???
ReplyDeleteAs a victim of Rod McNair's malice and overt cruelty it is somewhat rewarding to see that his reputation for being a harsh, unchristian destroyer of the brethren is often put into the light on this web sight.
ReplyDeleteHe has earned his reputation. You can only hide who you are for so long. Ultimately, the men at LCG HQs will stop covering for him and he will reap what he has sown.
In this regard, I actually feel a little pity for him.
LCG sees attendance numbers falling so instead of working to better exemplify the fruits of the spirit and root out corruption they double-down on the behavior that is causing their members to leave in the 1st place.
ReplyDeleteMakes perfect sense (not).
When I was in LCG it was common practice for these "visiting ministers" to come into our homes while our husbands were at work.
ReplyDeleteThey know that the woman is "weaker" and more easily bullied into spilling the beans or ratting out other members.
The ministers are looking for any crumb of information they can use.
These visits are more like interrogations. I speak from personal experience.
They are not done in love or out of concern or a desire to get to know members.
Nck
ReplyDeleteMany members had their sense of normality twisted by the church, so they didn't understand that the ministers lording ways were wrong. Often it's only after people leave abusive cults that they come to comprehend the extent to which they were robbed of their adulthood.
At any rate, the movie Animal Farm would not be approved today.
9:11
ReplyDeleteI understand. I m a student of kahneman and tverski.
Interesting that the movie would not be permitted today. Well it was the subversive seventies.
Our pastor was directly ordained by hwa btw. It was good fun watching with the entire congregation. Fat better than " the parents trap" at camp.
Nck
From the Anonymous statements on this commentary I can only say that don't believe the Bible are doomed to do their own "cherry picking" from a high ladder, in the storms and winds that will blow their house down, along with all the illegitimate inhabitants thereof; like a wall made of untempered mortar, GREAT will be the fall of it. The LORD rebuke those men. I was a virgin on my Wedding Day, because my sister came home from the Navy pregnant by a married man, due to the fact that our stepmother had no love for us after our mother died while Dad was in Korea (1950: a lot of "good" THAT did fighting N Korea!), and so not being taught God's judgment on fornication, many succumb to cherry-picking no matter what season the cherries come in! Well, when her son (my nephew) was 15, he piloted a plane taking 4 adults aboard, without a license because he had no father of his own; and my unwise sister went along for the ride, which after 100 feet in the air, tipped its wing (twin engine) and they all died in a fiery crash...minutes later, 36 years ago. Don't talk to me about cherry picking you simple farmhands. I made up my mind to marry a virgin husband after she came home 8 months pregnant from a cherry picker. The world is full of such fatherless children with no proper instruction from the man of the house, one like my Dad, who fought wars for the USN for 30 years, 4 marriages, giving away his substance to adulteresses with similar fathers as his own, who died when he was only 29. My Mother died when I was 3, and Dad was in Korea aboard a carrier, then Dad died when I was 26, sis when I was 34, and I was born timely enough to grasp that Heaven isn't the "reward of the saved"! I decided to ask the difficult "Why?" questions and get answers. Most are too well-off to do that... Too busy pointing fingers at women as the cause of all their disasters. Don't talk to me of cherry picking ANY of you. You have no clue how sweet a cherry even is when it is saved for the one and only that should pick it. Anyone that laughs at God's judgment on premarital sex of ANY KIND can just stay in the flesh, until he figures it out and repents of it, because he won't believe it these days "though he be told!" Some of us women have more brains and guts than most men in war! It's a spiritual war now, and most men are dying in it... while they think they know everything! The LORD rebuke every man here that defends his not remaining a virgin to his wedding day, and then not insisting on a virgin either! My husband ASKED for my hand in marriage; most men just take, ask later... death paves the path for that sin...death of innocents, worst of all.
ReplyDeleteHow did we get from LCGs potential snooping to fornication again??
ReplyDeleteOr from LCGs potential snooping to cherry picking, cherry pickers and cherry poppers, if you will. ;)
ReplyDeleteBy asking LCG members to sign up for "Amazon Smile" with LCG as their designated charity, the ministry has done something truly insidious. LCG now knows whether or not each member considers LCG their #1 charity. If LCG doesn't get any Amazon Smile money in the name of a member, they know that the member isn't fully committed to the group. As a side effect, with the Amazon Smile payment fixed at half of a percent of an item's purchase value, LCG moneymen will see when members are making lots of purchases that may or may not correspond to the income level their tithes and donations suggest.
ReplyDelete