"...the time will come when those that wear crosses
will persecute those that do not."
For decades the Worldwide Church of God had many different scenarios wildly disseminated in its ranks by various false prophets like Gerald Waterhouse, Rod Meredith, and Dean Blackwell. The men invented so many end-time scenarios that none of them could ever keep track of just how things were supposed to be happening. From the 3-4 hour sermons of mindless drivel by Gerald Waterhouse, the red-faced-vein-popping sermons by of Rod Meredith, and the flailing hands and Bible-waving of Almost-arrested, but not-arrested Bob Thiel, it is a steady diet of end-time persecution scenarios.
The church loved to trot out Foxe's Book of Martyrs and Hislop's Two Babylons as proof of how things would be. COG members would be persecuted just like the Waldenses and the people portrayed in the two books above. From being boiled alive in vats of hot oil to having hooks rip members bodies apart, it was all delicious material to keep the gullible sheep in line.
Today, we got another dose of fake news from Almost-arrested, but not-arrested Bob Thiel and the intense persecution he is experiencing and will soon experience.
The bitter self-appointed prophet is all twitterpated over German and Spanish surveillance laws.
"Germany’s Constitutional Court is reviewing the legality of the government’s surveillance capabilities, after several journalists and rights activists lodged a complaint arguing that the law allows for the “virtually unrestricted” monitoring of foreign reporters. …"
"Spain’s government has gotten into the business of regulating speech with predictably awful results. An early adopter of Blues Lives Matter-esque policies, Spain went full police state, passing a law making it a crime to show “disrespect” to law enforcement officers."So just how does this tie into our Bitter self-appointed prophet?
"...let me add here that the infamous Spanish Inquisition blocked legitimate speech and involved torture to get sources of information. Now they have laws using legal threats, like fines, in Germany."The Spanish Inquisition! Who knew! And guess who this is all aimed towards....
Although you might think that if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear from surveillance or speech restrictions, consider that many in the governments of the West consider that those not supporting homosexual marriages, etc. are extremist. I also saw someone once on a documentary that stated that people who believed in the millennium could not be trusted and should be considered as potential terrorists. The fact that we in the Continuing Church of Godwould be considered pacifists, does not change the fact that, since we hold to millennial and other biblical views, we can be improperly classified as extremist by government employees with various agendas. Having biblical views are becoming more problematic in the world (see ZH: Germany has killed freedom of speech and expects the rest of the EU to do the same). Canada does not want certain biblical verses to even be quoted (watch Canadian censoring of the Bible).Elijah Thiel then says this:
Furthermore, perhaps I should add that certain Catholic writings support that the time will come when those that wear crosses will persecute those that do not. Actually, that is one of the items covered in our latest video:
The biggest persecutors of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God will be everyone who wears a cross or god forbid who owns a folk art Guatemalan cross. Granny down the street and the young housewife next door will soon be rampaging in the Quad-Cities of California, seeking to attack Almost arrested, but not arrested Thiel
So, an intelligent sort, a “doctor” (see Gavin’s archived site for a permanent reminder as to how Bob Thiel obtained his “credentials”) can’t find creative ways around these speed bumps and obstacles? He can’t conduct a ministry without mentioning gays? Why does he single out Germany and Spain, rather than Russia and China which are much bigger, more populous nations with more restrictive laws that actually forbid the body of the gospel rather than an occasional blaming of weather anomalies on homosexuals. LOL!
ReplyDeleteBB
So Bob gives us another cross to bear.
ReplyDeleteUnlike HWA, Bob just doesn't have the knack of making wedge issues interesting. But he does have a NAK.
Doc said: "I also saw someone once on a documentary that stated that people who believed in the millennium could not be trusted and should be considered as potential terrorists. "
ReplyDelete"Once?" Now there's an opinion worth quoting! lol. Actually it's a very good time in religious belief to believe in the Millennium, "The Kingdom", "The Law of God" etc since the one whose name must not be mentioned says "No one loves the Bible more than I do."
Most of the South wants God's Law as the law of the land (administered by themselves). They also will pick and choose which God's laws to administer.
Actually, after this political debacle passes, no Bible literalist , fundamentalist, Evangelical moron supporting Christian will ever have any credibility telling anyone how to be in Jesus name amen... They are shooting themselves in the head.
Doktor Bob has some issues with feeling a bit more important than he actually is.
Im not worried, ...
ReplyDeleteI will wear GARLIC around my neck and that will ward off the "Evil Spirits of the Crossed Ones".
I'm surprised that Bob missed THIS
ReplyDeleteThe obsession with prophecy,the end times, Germany, going to a place of safety keeps the cog members always fearful of tomorrow. Back in the 60’s at AC we as students were told we would never marry of if we did the time would be too short to have children. Members neglected their health often not even going to a dentist. Why waste the money? Time was short. We were on the gun lap. For years HWA said over and over we should send in money to finish the work, Time was short. Rod Meredith repeated over and over “we probably have only a couple more years left”. Bitter Bob is obsessed with Germany. Living in fear is so wrong. Living that way makes people neglect planning for the future. It has been over 50;years since I heard these warnings. For the first 30 years I never thought where I would be when I was nearing retirement. Why think about retirement, I would be a ruler in the kingdom and I would never retire. I am glad I woke up and realized if I don’t plan for the future I will be homeless living under a bridge. I did start to plan, I bought a house and it’s paid for now. I paid into social security, which we didn’t while working for the church. I invested in a 401k. My wife did as well. What saddens me is that most members in the ACOG’s don’t have anything saved for the future. I am not tooting my own horn about saving, I know events can wipe it all out. COG people scoff at the stock market. They say investing is like gambling. I just ended 2017 with my investment being up more than 30%. Rod wrote a letter asking church member to send in their savings, the equity they had in their homes to virtually ensure bankruptcy in their future. Yet I know that several ministers and at least three evangelist has evangelists had 100,000 plus dollars in investments. I know this because I had conversations with them about investments. This is not meant os criticism. COG people need to wake up and realize we might have only a couple more years or we might have 500 hundred more years. People need to take responsibly and not let the Bitter Bob’s, Flurry’s, the Packs’ s rob you of your future.
ReplyDeleteDD states: "Most of the South wants God's Law as the law of the land (administered by themselves). They also will pick and choose which God's laws to administer."
ReplyDeleteThis was a brief statement and I think it needs some elaboration. Southerners may give lip service to the Ten Commandments but they do not practice the Ten Commandments as stated. The South and Greater Appalachia, in general, have a defined political agenda and they interpret the Bible through that lens.
The empirical evidence is, though concealed behind political correctness, is that the American South is a degenerate culture. Visit Mississippi sometime. Talk to its people. You will think you are not in the United States. The people that form the backbone of this region came out of the borderlands between Scotland and England where they warred against each other incessantly. Stealing livestock was a way of life. When they came to North America they immediately began a campaign of genocide against Native Americans. They were reinforced by a large criminal population ejected from the British Isles and sent into exile in the American South. While writers refer to them as WASPs(White, Anglo-Saxon Protestants) they by far and large are not Anglo-Saxons. They are Celtic borderers or sometimes referred to as Scots-Irish.
So it is not surprising that they also have a degenerate theology. They have a Whites Only Christianity, believe that slavery was justified by the Bible, hate Jews even though Jesus was a Jew, believe that Blacks are pre-Adamic, and worship Donald Trump and Rush Limbaugh as new messiahs. It has always surprised me that Armstrongism, with its distinct White Supremacy orientation, did not become more popular in the South.
These people gave a distinct spin to the AC BS campus.
The statement that they want "God's law as the law of the land" must be tempered by these facts.
Correct NEO. It is Baptist lop service and what they are supposed to day based on their upbrang'in. Alcoholism, stds, obesity, illness, smoking and all sorts of emotional abuse and repression is sky high. Generally they mean "you" should keep God's law.
ReplyDelete"It has always surprised me that Armstrongism, with its distinct White Supremacy orientation, did not become more popular in the South."
ReplyDeleteFirst of all interesting take on the South and the Celtic Borderlands moved to the Apalachians. There are some nice movies about the feuds between the "McCabes" and the
"Mckintyres" clans of the Apalachians.
Now about your surprise about Armstrongism.
That is because the people of this blog do not understand the politics of Armstrongism and BI.
They believe it is racist which is only so through modern eyes and definitions.
The politics of BI&US in prophecy is about the dominant culture of the NEW ENGLAND STATES with HARVARD AND ESPECIALLY YALE as their dominant institutes of learning. During the inception phase of the USA the personel for the State Department was largely drawn from Yale (of Skull and Bones fame). These secret societies recruited from the elite of the elite even before the USA decided to break its splendid isolation.
Then we have Woodrow Wilson who won the battle between internationalists and isolationists.
The USA went on its course to become involved with the major world powers like the British and French empires through the league of nations.
On and on and yadda yadda.
Later WWII, United Nations. `1942 CIA for services abroad. etc etc etc.
Then I come in and chart the route of the GIII and mentioning all of HWA appointments.
The man spent 360 days per year abroad during the seventies. As one particle in the webweavers of the American Empire meeting more heads of state than Henry Kissinger BEFORE THE AGE OF FAXES. Webweaving went through personal contacts and the Israeli prime minister rushed out of cabinet meetings to drive from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv to immediately speak to HWA when the GII arrived at Ben Gurion.
At the end of his career he sat at the head table next to the Secretary General of the United Nations. (that powerful instrument of the American Empire through SOFT POWER during the cold war.)
Now does this answer your question about why WCG was not necissarily speaking to "the racist south" but more a proponent of the dominant Anglo Saxon culture (the I am dreaming of a White Christmas culture) extending abroad and with powerful megawatts changing the world out there through the sponsoring of leveraged programs that Americanized the rest of the world. (through popular culture (radio pirates that needed major sponsors like WTM to survive and feed the young generation with AMERICAN culture and pop music.
Till the sponsoring of agricultural reform programs in South East Asia as powerbase for the American friendly dicators. Not only american friendly but even having american citizenship. (The Thai king, Jehan Sadat, The Jordanians, etc etc etc)
Now does this sound as the dominant culture of the South. No, in the south they are agricultarists, focussed on their land, their near vicinity. While the culture of the North knew the true potential of "America" if its power would extend abroad.
Through the Yale schooled State Department. Yale where BI originated and was brought to Oregon which was an ALL WHITE STATE (NORTH WEST to the SOUTH (ring a bell north west was where the tribes would go) From Oregon the ideology spread to California where it ultimately split into benign Armstrongism and the horrible IDENTITY Movement.
This is all recorded history. And those interested could start their search at Pam Dewey'site Meet myth America and follow the trail of BI from Oregon to California. What preachers were involved and how the Identity movement evolved and split to at worst avenge WACO by blowing up the Murray building. It is all very easy for those willing to follow the trail of the persons and ideas involved.
nck
Gotta turn off the word suggested...
ReplyDelete"Lip" "say"
ReplyDelete"This is not meant os criticism. COG people need to wake up and realize we might have only a couple more years or we might have 500 hundred more years."
YES FLOYD
People involved in COG's should at least LIVE like Jesus could return tomorrow but PLAN like there might be some delay for reasons only known to the Universe.
nck
Living in the damn south as I do, I can't say NEO is completely wrong.
ReplyDeleteNck, I got the DNA. Speaking with the son of the hitherto unknown grandfather tonight.
Nck you have the Armstrongism and the South issue much more accurately than does NEO or Dennis (sorry y'all).
ReplyDeleteRSK
ReplyDeleteWhat? Am I going to see you at "Who do you think you are?" Are you a "Jefferson"? Gimme data to process! Please dont tell me you are related to the Kaananites or mighty hunters of old!
Congratulations anyway, its an important thing!
Nck
Nck
ReplyDeleteBI originated in Yale?? Google BI. As I have pointed out before, BI was the official doctrine of the Anglican church during the 1800s. Millions were exposed to this belief. This was before Herb was born.
Please, no re writing of history.
There were numerous books in the Pasadena AC library on British Isrealism that were from England and published in the 1800's. The Yale excuse is fake news.
ReplyDeletenew nickname for Dr Bob....."curtains"...
ReplyDeleteHasn’t it ever occurred to Dr. Bob that of all the Christians who have been martyred and tortured over the past 2,000 years, the churcofgoddians have been a statistically negligible percentage? And, that’s being generous and even spotting him the ones from the false history Armstrong, Dugger and Dodd cobbled together to give their movement any sort of credibility in the first place!
ReplyDeleteIf ultra-leftists ever set up camps and re-education centers, they’ll be rounding up the evangelicals from the local megachurches, the Christian patriots holed up in militia compounds, the Mormons from the LDS temples, and the Jehovah Witnesses from Kingdom Hall. The safest place for a Christian to be might be in one of the nearly imperceivable ACOGs.
BB
3:07
ReplyDeleteYes correct! And even older traces during the reformation and before that.
I was talking about the specific american incarnation of the ideology.
In conjunction with the "go west young man", "shining city on the hill" and "manifest destiny" as translated in a foreign policy ideology for America.
All formulated end 19th century, then wilsonian translation etc as the isolationists lost until perhaps this administration.
Nck
Really, all that we have is what we have now. If the British and American melting pots were ever mostly pure Anglo Saxon, or Celt, or whatever the pure (they never were because Manasseh and Ephraim were half Egyptian) tribes, they are not now, and have not been for some time. The USA had huge Native American and African American populations from the very beginning of the European conquest. Pennsylvania was virtually founded as a haven of religious and ethnic tolerance by William Penn, unlike the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Regardless of centuries old British thinking, the USA was never purely or predominantly Anglo Saxon, although the original pilgrims who came over on the Mayflower were certainly influential to the extent that English was voted in as our official language.
DeleteWith the passage of time, and the continued stirring of the melting pot, British Israel becomes less and less possible, and more and more irrelevant.
BB
Anonymous Ekklesia said...
ReplyDeleteNck you have the Armstrongism and the South issue much more accurately than does NEO or Dennis (sorry y'all).
Ekklesia.
I like a little aplomb and polarizing in postings that I have only minutes for to compose.
I contrasted "Southern culture" with its "genteel" inward focussed (landownership) culture with the expansionist industrial culture of the North. This inner cultural struggle or difference was taken to the international level by the Northern Industrialists seeking markets.
Of course it far more complex.
Especially in the seventies when we have a "southern" president spearheading "moral diplomacy", therefore capacitating many evangelical speakers to set the agenda for american foreign policy in the seventies. (Carter and evangelical diplomacy, very interesting study in light of Hwa's many travels during that same time period).
After that we have a "Californian" president. The gung ho, go west young man, the end is near and I could be an instrument to end it all along with the evil empire, doubling the arms race, with the threat to take it into space aswell.
This period was the Zenith of WCG. Then of course the Communist Empire collapses, WCG is finished by Russians and all that remains of the American Empire is its sole leadership and dominance over the world through "the five eyes" and echelon as tools of the Anglo Saxon Empire.
Then we get the late nineties and now we stand where we stand, with a last grasp of White anger about the state of things by the election of the current president. Trying to restore what cannot be restored since other nations have learned about mistakes and applied/copied the best of America.
nck
Put into ancient terms, the USA was not “pure in its generations” from its very beginings. It was “Samaritanized” from inception. The Brits can do as they please with their Celts, Picts, Normans, Anglo-Saxons, immigrants from the nations in their pre-World War II empire, and renamed German royal family.
ReplyDeleteBB
BB,
ReplyDeleteYou are purposefully not wanting to get it.
Just look up 1970 footage of lets say the Nixon inaugaration or whatever footage of political rallies of the dominant parties.
EVERYONE is white.
It is about the powerstructure of the dominant elites upto the 1980's.
Within that dominant powerstructure and overwhelming "I am dreaming of a white christmas",
"Doris Day", culture EVERYONE was blond and white, Like the Posterboy on the AC booklets in front of the Egret fountain.
Barbra Streisand is not just a singer and artist. To many it was the first time they could identify with someone "looking strange", non blonde and "samaritan" as you call it. (how ironic for a jewish girl)
Even curly Jesus in the picture book look liked a Norwegian carpenter in the fifties.
That is the point.
Not racial purity.
Although that was nearly the same thing.
It is about Identity and Power. (Perhaps the reason the British Royal family changed their name.) Why do you call them German while the carried Saxon-(Gotha) Saxon whatever in their name too?
But you are right to point it out though but it doesn't matter in regard to the Identity of the Power brokers.
nck
Oh, for crap sake, nck! The state in which I grew up was predominantly white. White does not equal "Anglo Saxon". There is abundant and rich genetic or ethnic diversity amongst Caucasians. Of course we had Anglos and Celts. But there always seemed to be a large number of Germans, French, Italians, Polish, Slavs, Lithuanians, Russians, Hungarian, Norwegian, Swedes, Danes, in other words, every strain or breed from Western and Eastern Europe. If all of us Caukkers were Brits, we'd have those funny ears that stick out, grotesque noses, and when we got old, we would look like all the old British rock stars who have spent way too much time in the pub. Also, forget about British cuisine! Dayamn! Eel pie? Really???
ReplyDeleteBB
Oh,I forgot to mention. Only us Caukkers, or perhaps stylizing it a bit for street cred, Caukkaz are allowed to call ourselves that. Please observe proper racial etiquette here on Banned!
ReplyDeleteBB
BB
ReplyDeleteI believe in the customs records of 1925. Jews and Italians etc were stamped as non-whites. Or at least considered that way by the powers that be that ran the country.
The elites of the steel cities, thr railroad men, the people along the Hudson. In short "the old guard". Jewish ladies were not invited to this exclusive swt. (no matter how much money thwy had) We had this discussion before and you are unfamiliar with official designations and policy dictated ro customs from 1890 - 1930. When the majority of immigrants and quota was frowned upon by the existing crowd. Henry Ford was not the only example who took it further than socio economic stratification.
I believe the last country club to not allow jews changed policy just a decade ago.
Catholicism was also a major point of contention because of possible loyalties to a foreign head of state.
As with many things and again you are judging by todays enlightened standards.
Altough its going a bit too fast for the trump constituency it seems.
Nck
By the way, I am not in any way endorsing the policies etc.
ReplyDeleteBut it seems people are not aware of the cultural context that shaped "armstrongism" in a pivotal time of transition in the United States and on what wave it rode to prominence.
Rather than solely attributing everything wrong to hwa, who in domestic affairs and relations was not revolutionary or rather conservative, but in international affairs was building toward a "new order" that coincided with Americas race to its Zenith.
I like Dewey's blog for starters but there is so much more on the internet like the statistics of spanking ones spouse in the fifties etc etc etc.
My personal opinion is that everything of the past can be called bad. But its hard to imagine life when a cold could mean death and mobile phone did not exist. People had a way of coping and sometimes it involved the hard labor of captured people. Wouldn't trade anything to live in the past.
nck
https://theundefeated.com/features/white-immigrants-werent-always-considered-white-and-acceptable/
ReplyDeleteI found this BB, since you mentioned all these peoples.
For the interested.
nck
See, the problem, nck, is that Armstrongism was totally FUBAR. So, the thinking behind it and historical context are irrelevant. It is a defective product, and universally produces bad fruits. Who even cares where it came from?
ReplyDeleteBB
Armstrongism is derogatory term for those who suffered it. Lots of extra biblical are pet theories of american culture.Scandaninavian members might not recognize that glynn washington crap. Occasionsl black member perhaps received respectfully receiving salted fish for potluck. Might explain many members in Caribean and Africa for those harping on american race relations. 5000 philipine members might not understand the child beating since it is not part of their culture.
ReplyDeleteHwa enlightened in a time of jeeish dicrimination in us by stating they were genetically related. Controversial and revolutionary. Especially in light of trump admin moving embassy to jerusalem not because of jewish lobby but because of calls from the americam heartland.
Wow bible belt made a huge transformation there
Nck
I just wish I had a time machine and a gross of strong condoms coated in spermacidal jelly, to go back in time, starting in the late 1800’s, and to provide for several key people, nck. In fact, it might be better still to start in 1781 to prevent William Miller as well!
DeleteActually, those who suffered it and then saw the error and repented of it love and appreciate the term “Armstrongism”, because it reduces HWA and his collection of junk philosophies to what they actually are, a very man-made thing. It’s the people still on the inside who despise the label. Somehow, they’re hung up on misleading and inaccurate phrases, like “God’s Apostle”, “God’s Church”, and “The Truth”.
BB
Yes. We encounter many philosophies, theologies and ideas in our lives. Or we are born into them unknowingly.
ReplyDeleteWe are to assess what works for us or not. We both share a decision that armstrongism was not what we would pursue.
I also think we share a desire for concrete results accomplishments.
Now when I'm talking about American particulars of the past it would be far fetched to claim that I am endorsing separate hispanic potlucks. Just as it would be farfetched to extrapolate that if one likes to distribute contraceptives among the parents of Miller, Savonarola or the Anabaptists of Munster one is actually saying I wish my parents had used them.
It is just impossible to have the time machine. Although one could say I wish ot didnt happen, personally I'd rather search for "explanations" and honest assessments of things that actually happened and recognize them good or bad.
So when someone deems all colonialism 150% bad. I would point to the current Indian railroads or administrative system or lingua franca for an honest asessment. I like to understand how southern farming worked until the civil war, even when it had always been an outdated model, regarding the distrubution of labor, to European farmers.
What remains of fallen empires are the tokens and medals in museums that bear no meaning for us today but at the time took considerable risk or courage to acquire.
(a bit like the token words you mention).
Nck