Father Raymond Brown (1928-1998) was perhaps the greatest biblical scholar (certainly the greatest among Catholics) of the 20th century. As he did in his masterful book on the infancy narratives (The Birth of the Messiah: A Commentary on the Infancy Narratives in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke (The Anchor Yale Bible Reference Library)), in this book (which received both the Nihil Obstat and the Imprimatur), he turns his keen analytical reasoning to the gospel accounts of Jesus' passion.
Brown describes the primary aim of this book as "to explain in detail what the evangelists intended and conveyed to their audiences by their narratives of the passion and death of Jesus," adding, "I do not think of the evangelists themselves as eyewitnesses of the passion; nor do I think that eyewitness memories of Jesus came down to the evangelists without considerable reshaping and development. Yet as we move back from the gospel narratives to Jesus himself, ultimately there were eyewitnesses and eyewitnesses who were in a position to know the broad lines of Jesus' passion." He candidly admits that "I can scarcely reconstruct how a book of mine published twenty years ago was composed. Therefore, I, for one, cannot hope to reconstruct with great exactitude the interrelationships of the Synoptic Gospels."
"Too often, however, the truth has led people to assume that everything related in the NT about Jesus has to be historical. The problem is compounded when it is assumed that the Gospels, the NT writings centered on his life, are historical biographies."
Raymond Brown
The Death of the Messiah
Introduction
"In particular, E.L .Martin assumes Matthean historicity and harmonizes Matt with Luke, which he assumes to be equally historical... It is regrettable that Martin mars his thesis with such extravagantly precise hypotheses reflecting overhistorizing."
Raymond Brown
The Birth of the Messiah
On WCG's Ernest Martins taking the story of Jesus birth too literally
Pg 608
Father Brown also always intended to stay in the good graces of "The Magisterium" of the Church and could pull a good punch leaving it up to the reader to draw their own conclusions without danger to his status in the Church
Brown describes the primary aim of this book as "to explain in detail what the evangelists intended and conveyed to their audiences by their narratives of the passion and death of Jesus," adding, "I do not think of the evangelists themselves as eyewitnesses of the passion; nor do I think that eyewitness memories of Jesus came down to the evangelists without considerable reshaping and development. Yet as we move back from the gospel narratives to Jesus himself, ultimately there were eyewitnesses and eyewitnesses who were in a position to know the broad lines of Jesus' passion." He candidly admits that "I can scarcely reconstruct how a book of mine published twenty years ago was composed. Therefore, I, for one, cannot hope to reconstruct with great exactitude the interrelationships of the Synoptic Gospels."
"Too often, however, the truth has led people to assume that everything related in the NT about Jesus has to be historical. The problem is compounded when it is assumed that the Gospels, the NT writings centered on his life, are historical biographies."
Raymond Brown
The Death of the Messiah
Introduction
"In particular, E.L .Martin assumes Matthean historicity and harmonizes Matt with Luke, which he assumes to be equally historical... It is regrettable that Martin mars his thesis with such extravagantly precise hypotheses reflecting overhistorizing."
Raymond Brown
The Birth of the Messiah
On WCG's Ernest Martins taking the story of Jesus birth too literally
Pg 608
Father Brown also always intended to stay in the good graces of "The Magisterium" of the Church and could pull a good punch leaving it up to the reader to draw their own conclusions without danger to his status in the Church
Dennis-
ReplyDeleteThe title of this site is "Banned by HWA! Books, News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Churches of God"
Your constant essays as an apologist against the existence of God , and the validity of scripture is really a bad fit here. People who are seeking answers about their respective cults, find this important information marginalized or discredited because "The non believing devil is there" , so thus, the baby is tossed out with the bath water.
May I suggest a completely different forum or blog, as what you are doing here is potentially counterproductive, and is frankly , off topic.
I know for myself, I come here specifically for COG universe underground free press. I know where to access agnostic/atheist stuff if I want to. Again, I think posting agnostic/atheisistic material here , undermines the whole productiveness of the site.
Hey, Im just a reader here, and claim no ownership, or editorial right, however, I do believe my thought here has some merit in being considered.
The fact that Jesus & the heavenly Father are one and the same would make reading this pointless.
ReplyDeleteConnie
ReplyDeleteI really dont see why of all available options Dennis's contributions should have no place.
They are a 1000 times better and more accurate than comparisons of wcg experience with those in branch davidians.
And I have not seen you complain against such stupidity.
What "news" are you looking for? Of people no one has ever heard about, Bob Thiel, Malm? The best reactions are of that anonymous person who constantly asks, who are they? I wet my pants everytimme that anonymous shows up.
I do love 90% of what happens here, though it majors in the minors except for the largwr lcg criticism for which there are dissenting insiders contributing, I guess.
I did love the former Connie. But the late Doris has been busy. Unless of course you are also one of the male anonymouses.
Armstrongism would have played its last trick on me if the 14 regulars would actually only be 3 anonymouses and poor me as advocate of the devil(s).
Nck
Where can I get my free copy?
ReplyDelete@ connie Schmidt. Totally agree!!!
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteYour constant essays as an apologist against the existence of God , and the validity of scripture is really a bad fit here. People who are seeking answers about their respective cults, find this important information marginalized or discredited because "The non believing devil is there" , so thus, the baby is tossed out with the bath water.
May I suggest a completely different forum or blog, as what you are doing here is potentially counterproductive, and is frankly , off topic.
People come to this site for more than one reason. I come to help make sense of, and process, the WCG experience. Maybe some come to check up on their parent's religion. Maybe Dennis can save them from fundamentalism. Others come to get gossip. But while they are here, they might learn something more important, like, why the bible can't be taken literally.
I don't think what Dennis does here is off topic. The validity of the bible is very much relevant. And I don't think it is unproductive. I learn a lot from it.
Connie, you don't have to read every article if you don't want to.
But nobody cares what I think anyway. I'm just a hideous "troll". If you are right, Dennis is another troll, just not as hideous.
People who are not brave enough to question the bible already have the ESN site. And there are no "trolls" there, only censorship.
ReplyDeleteI am one of those that enjoy Dennis Diehl's posts here. I may not always agree, but at least they present new facts to ponder that I may not have heard before. So please keep it up!
ReplyDeleteNCK-
ReplyDeleteDoris day is not "Late" and is alive and well living in California, now almost aged 96. I use her picture because I resemble her. Care to tell us what NCK stands for??
I remember reading a WCG booklet in which they quoted a Catholic priest as saying that the bible alone is not a sufficient guide to salvation, i.e. the Catholic church is also necessary, according to the Catholics. So, the book presented in this article would be, I guess, in keeping with that Catholic tradition.
ReplyDeleteAs an aside, the WCG condemned the Catholic church for saying the bible was not a sufficient guide to salvation, but in practice, they really believed the same thing. They still taught you needed to go to church, but you needed the WCG instead of the Catholic church. So they were guilty of the same thing that they condemned (as I recall it).
I agree with Connie. If you [Dennis] want to preach atheism, cheer for Aron Ra, etc., why not start another blog and do that there. I don't think this is the forum for that. I like coming here to get news on what's going on in all the different Armstrong COG's out there and how Armstrongite leaders or members think they possess some insight into God and the Bible. I don't want to read how Dennis thinks his background as a former WCG pastor turned Atheist gives him a more accurate insight into God and the Bible. Here's an idea. Why don't you start a Blog or YouTube channel and invite Christian Apologists to debate with you about God and the Bible on that forum? It would be better for you.
ReplyDeleteLet’s get real. There actually are people who come here to validate one another’s atheism. Years ago, when I was an atheist, that’s one of the reasons why I visited dissident sites. There is also such a thing as an evangelical atheist. Most of us are big boys and girls who are willing to pick up the tab for our lifestyles. I don’t believe we’ve got any hapless “little lambs” floating around here.
ReplyDeleteBB
Connie Schmidt said...
ReplyDeleteDennis-
The title of this site is "Banned by HWA! Books, News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Churches of God"
Your constant essays as an apologist against the existence of God , and the validity of scripture is really a bad fit here. People who are seeking answers about their respective cults, find this important information marginalized or discredited because "The non believing devil is there" , so thus, the baby is tossed out with the bath water.
I know for myself, I come here specifically for COG universe underground free press. I know where to access agnostic/atheist stuff if I want to. Again, I think posting agnostic/atheisistic material here , undermines the whole productiveness of the site."
Connie,
Then I suggest you only read the postiigs pertinent to your needs and interests if stepping outside the very narrow and shallow box of Church of God theological understanding bothers you. As I have said before, I fill in the spaces while news of the Churches of God lunatics accumulates for other posts.
And... As a former minister in WCG, taught the "deep things of God" by men who weren't even qualified to brush the surface and taught the shallow Bible reader approach, I want to know what I missed that would have made me a better pastor in what I thought a long time ago was a sincere calling personally. I also may have picked a better affiliation to do so. I assume that here on Banned there are some who also wish they had better training and teaching so as to avoid the many pitfalls of WCG and splinter membership issues and expectations.
The churches of God are light years behind in understanding the origins, intent, politic and message of the scripture. Especially the NT which last time I looked was the Christian side of the equation. Their, your as I sense you might be UCG?, pastor is not well trained and yet they pontificate with authority over the lives of those under their "care."
Flurry, Pack and Weinland are dangerous in their mistaken theology. Thiel and Malm are just amateur wanna be's along with many others who are kidding themselves about who they think they are. I have offered three times, publically, to debate Pack. Nothing....These men don't want to be called out on their phony and dangerous theology. That's a Banned and COG issue to be dealt with.
I don't know if there is a "God" but the originally Canaanite God that evolved into the God of the OT ruling over an obscure people is not it. Judaism did not spring out of a vacuum nor did Christianity. The COG view is way too small and way too literal causing untold misery to members living and gyrating on the edge of their seats for no good reason as time will tell.
If Gary tells me enough, then I shall disappear having greatly appreciated a place to process my poor choice of ministry and theological training back when. I am processing member issues like most here with the additional ministerial ones unique only to my journey and experience.
I may be mistaken but my sense is that you are in UCG. Forgive is wrong. Sometimes I also sense you write like a Connie and sometimes like a guy. Perhaps you could share your affiliation? I'd understand your unease better perhaps, with me and topics outside the shallow WCG ministerial training and experience in Theology.
And too Connie... Father Raymond Brown , author of the topic of the posting, was hardly an atheist or trying to undermine the Bible. But he had a wonderful grasp of scriptural intent, problems and politics and walked a fine line with the Magisterium of the church because he did not wish to get bounced explaining. John Shelby Spong, who as Episcopal Church Bishop and author of Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism was also a shining light explaining well what the average church member did not know and was not told by most Episcopal Priests who knew the bigger Biblical issues. I've had more than one well trained pastor or priest tell me that they KNOW the things he and I talked about were true.."But I can't say that in church or I'll lose my job. The average church member is not ready for such realities of the Bible."
ReplyDeleteI suppose most are happy with the Sabbath or Sunday school version, but I felt, as a minister and certainly now, I simply can't afford to be so shallow and mistaken in the time I have left in life.
I’d have to agree with Connie, at least in some ways.
ReplyDeleteI really come to this site for insight into what has or does continue to go on in the ACOGs. Where I do think Dennis adds to this venue, is in giving us a look under the tent as a past minister and reinforcing or revealing what many of us see through his own past experiences.
What I really don’t like here, are when people’s agendas start to become almost as odious in nature, as the experiences of the church. This includes the nonstop “preaching” about the “new religions” or whatever you want to call them many now embrace, that seems just as self centered as the church environment.
I ignore Dennis when he goes on and on about some subjects, but he pales in comparison to whoever nck is, who seems to never make sense, but is either too stupid or vain to even know it and continues to just ramble on like a nonsensical Gerald Waterhouse sermon.
If this is truly a place to heal or get solace, then all the atheistic, agnostics, Jewish and whatever other viewpoints just seem to cloud the issue, and frankly inhibits any way to truly move on.
I’ve been around the church for nearly 50 years and see even here, that the COG isn’t the only place where people want the spotlight, as happens here pretty regularly.
So while this may be on the surface, a place to get various viewpoints, the cast of some characters here, make strange bedfellows with those they lambast on a regular basis.
Maybe to coin a phrase from the old TV show Dragnet, maybe “just the facts” for why this site is said to exist, might be better served without all the whacko nonsense that isn’t much better than where most of us came from.
Connie Schmidt said...
ReplyDeleteDennis-
The title of this site is "Banned by HWA! Books, News and Observations About Armstrongism and the Churches of God"
Your constant essays as an apologist against the existence of God , and the validity of scripture is really a bad fit here. People who are seeking answers about their respective cults, find this important information marginalized or discredited because "The non believing devil is there" , so thus, the baby is tossed out with the bath water.
May I suggest a completely different forum or blog, as what you are doing here is potentially counterproductive, and is frankly , off topic.
I know for myself, I come here specifically for COG universe underground free press. I know where to access agnostic/atheist stuff if I want to. Again, I think posting agnostic/atheisistic material here , undermines the whole productiveness of the site.
Hey, Im just a reader here, and claim no ownership, or editorial right, however, I do believe my thought here has some merit in being considered.
March 30, 2018 at 8:52 AM
Good luck Connie...
The dudeness does not take suggestions very well....trust me I've tried.
TK
I see nothing in the post claiming Brown was laying out a dispute re: the existence of God?
ReplyDeleteOf course, I'm still waiting to hear why Connie was using an internet porn performer's image as a userpic, so I guess that some things don't have to make sense.
We have been down this path before. Diehl seems to be the focus of the controversy. But then Diehl is advertised on the marquee on the first page. And to my knowledge the moderator has never posted any guidelines about what is appropriate and what is not for this blog. The only thing that I know to be prohibited is any negative discussion of Donald Trump although some other really puerile stuff seems to easily leap the fence - especially if it reflects some dark, Saturday-Night-Live humor. I assume that the predilections of the moderator illuminate the pathway.
ReplyDeleteConnie's Issue: This blog does not seem to be about helping people come out of the more extreme sects of Armstrongism into mainstream Armstrongism as Connie may think. At least, I see no evidence of that.
Dennis Diehl is an ex-WCG Minister. As such, I think his viewpoint and knowledge are valuable as we dissect Armstrongism to examine its curious innards. He knows the anatomy. Otherwise, in my mind he is a war criminal like all the rest of the ex-WCG ministers. I, too, am a war criminal. I used to give sermonettes that encouraged people to believe all manner of harmful Millerite drivel. People who did nothing more than sit obeisantly in the audience promoted participation and belief in Armstrongism.
It's an ugly picture, isn't it.
Maybe the moderator will publish some guideslines on what he expects this blog to be. Or maybe he will just "let 'er rip".
Note: Do you think Neo is one person or several? Curious. I think Connie is a woman but she is a lot older than many would guess.
DeleteI don’t mind a negative comment about Trump or Obama or any of the other politicians. The problem is once someone makes a negative comment someone else gets major butthurt and then the name calling starts and so forth. Peaceful respectful debate is enriching.
PS. If it helps, I'm running errands in Portland listening to Hymns Triumphant Vol II. They are the great classic hymns if my naive youth and still relax and pause. I am not singing Praise Me The Lordo or Climb me through any windows leaping however, or reminiscing about how death shall them seize.
ReplyDeleteDennis
ReplyDeleteAt 1:03 when you start "and too connie", I thought you alluded too Julius Ceasars' ( Ku Sai Teknon, or rather , ET TU BRUTE) when he was stabbed in the back.
Ah those pesky pagan Romans. What did they ever do for us, besides .....running water, straight roads, organization, peace on huge geographical scale and freedom to worship as one pleases.........after giving the emperor its share......of course.
Nck
"Sometimes I also sense you write like a Connie and sometimes like a guy."
ReplyDelete1) Perhaps there are times when Connie's hubby is writing under her name or telling her what to say?
2) Radical. The very idea that men and women are not interchangeable. Apart, from the plumbing, there's actually a difference? This site will soon be banned by Google for allowing that opinion to be voiced.
Dennis- I am affiliated with the COG 7th Day. I have family that attend United.
ReplyDeleteSadly, what goes on here is sometimes politics. Why do the usual suspects on here IMMEDIATELY discredit, denounce, and pigeon-hole information sources they have never heard of before without even checking them out?
ReplyDelete2:56 ~ Are you talking about pigeon-holing all of Adolf’s shit, as if common sense were somehow a detriment?
DeleteBB
I understand fully with where Dennis is coming from. At AC we were spoon fed what HWA wanted us to know. In RCM’s first year bible, Rod gushed on about how every fit together perfectly. I never knew the New Testament was not written til somewhere 40 or more years after the events described. Sadly I was a bible reader, not one who studied the Bible. I also pastored churches in WCG, I tried to help people, I tried to give sermons that would inspire. Sometimes I did and I never felt I was above the members. With that being said, I still preached the HWA party line. I saw a lot of crap that went on but like so many I thought we had the “truth.” I am so fortunate because both my wife and I came to see how foolish we had been.. so gullible to believe without question what was taught as truth. I remember HWA would thunder out that he got the truth directly from God. He said he never got the “truth” from any man. What a load of bull.i am an atheist to the god WCG and the ACOG worship. I think Dennis is an atheist to that god as well. However I firmly believe in a God who is loving.
ReplyDeleteThanks Dennis, I have learned a lot from you.
I told Dennis I don’t always agree with everything he writes, but I have learned to read, ponder, consider, think and dig deeper into what I believe. I also have learned a lot from others on here. I am enjoying my life apart from WCG, after WCG I went into construction, I helped build some of the parking structures some of you have parked in. I helped build some bridges some have driven ove. I did get my hands dirty.
Dennis my have left WCG but he is still a teacher. I enjoy reading what Connie, Byker Bob, Gary and all the rest have to say. I hope that those who are wrestling with their conscience about being a part of any ACOG can find hope through our experiences. There is life after COG.
And Dennis keep writing. BB do you still have a bike, my wife says i am too old to ride, sold my chopper, had a nice ride with SS 113 ci engine. Now I just look at my pictures. Sigh
Jim-AZ
TRUE-My husband does inspire my posts at times. We both love to laugh together and enjoy Banned and I have used his suggestions many times in writing here, and yes, sometimes we have even posted together having a great time while doing so!
ReplyDelete2) Dennis , sometimes I think you write like a woman!
3) The internet is a dangerous place, and who wants to be associated or tainted by any of the Armstrong universe. My pictures have been close facsimile of my actual looks, even the Doris Day one.. Im a mom and very protective of my children and do not want my actual digital picture floating around especially in the kooky COG world.
Schmidt is not my married name BTW, and very few people actually know that my maiden name was "Schmidt". My husband has family that attend the UCG, and as stated above , we identify as Church of God 7th Day. Like many of you , there are people to protect, and reputations and family that are "innocent" and do not need to be harassed.
I hope this answers some questions of inquiry here.
Dennis said:
ReplyDelete"PS. If it helps, I'm running errands in Portland listening to Hymns Triumphant Vol I"
Found this album quickly on YouTube. Definitely has the classic hymn sound to it. A nice suggestion to possibly add to my music playlists. It does remind me of sitting at the Arena during the Feast and listening to the Festival Choir. A bit. The Festival Choir always had one or two off-key people who inadvertently went off-key and off-pitch. (and the Orchestra too - I still hear the Clarinet squeaking in my head.)
I have found that many people from many faiths (or non-faiths) love the classic hymns and orchestra tunes from decades ago. No matter what you believe, or don't believe, music gets right down to the mind and helps you relax and calm and think.
Now those other tunes you alluded to about jackals, and windows and before me i constantly it is ever with me and ancients of old and between the cherubim he sits blah blah blah have never really done much for relaxing me. All they do is bring back memories of a very strange and unusual alternate experience worlds behind me.
So, thanks for the suggestion. I'm finding the music very serene and peaceful.
Oh. And, Trigger warning. This is a mainstream church in cleveland NOT WCG, traditional: But MAN, their song service is absolutely "triggering". Don't watch this if you want a flashback. It's really.... weird how similar this is.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umVh_J020ug
"I agree with Connie. If you [Dennis] want to preach atheism, cheer for Aron Ra, etc., why not start another blog and do that there."
ReplyDeleteIn theory, we would all like to have a blog exactly tailored to our own views, and catered to where we are at right now, but that's not realistic, and would only serve to keep us in our boxes. In practice, do we really want to be fragmented into several blogs? We would each have to start our own blogs, write our own articles, develop our own information sources ("informants") etc. None of us have the time or energy for that.
People people people - here today I walk through the doors of my new church (Banned by HWA) and some members are trying to throw out other members and all this is happening less than 24 hours after the Passover.
ReplyDeleteIt is nice to have such a wide spectrum of thought, of narration, of experience and of course the craziness that comes about here on a sometimes daily basis. I used to have wait every 7 days to converse about the weather or how the local sports teams was doing or what restaurant I was going to eat at or even how the newly planted grass was doing in the back yard.
One of the major concerns for me coming back into the COG spectrum was seeing the taking on of the aura of elitism by some of the membership which was was inherited from the leadership. The continual condemnation of others especially fellow members attending the various splinters was continual - they don't dress properly, they drink too much, they wife swap, they are lazy, they watch the wrong movies, they are so much like the world that they might as well be in it was heard often enough to be like a sickness that wouldn't go away. It is a shame that some would take on this trait from the character of their leader and leadership - but it is just one of many negative character traits inherent in these men from being in and administering a false government within a church of God.
Paul said let us partake of the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. That is a subject of which I have never heard a sermon given in all my years in the COG. I honestly don't think any of the leaders of the COGs could give it, for it is so far afield from the self edification and misguidance that emanates from these men.
There is much sincerity on this site, with it is mixed some truth and some error. But honestly, those three are the driver for this site whether we like it or not.
I, for one, enjoy the wide-ranging opinions on this blog. To my taste, NO2HWA is doing a great job of managing the discussion. Even though the pissing matches between True Bread and his various adversaries often get tiresome, they do school the rest of us in the ritualized give-and-take of insults that men with testosterone poisoning engage in just before a bar fight. It is a relief that our guys throw pixels instead of fists. But most arguments here are more nuanced than that, and like an in-person bull session, they digress wildly. I know the digressions irritate some here. To me, they are a welcome contrast to the constraints that fenced in discussions in my dorm at Ambassador. Somebody would propose an edgy, interesting idea, and it would get shut down with a comment like, "No, you have to stop there."
ReplyDeleteConnie, I am surprised and a little disappointed at your reaction to Dennis's posts. You always give the impression of being so solidly grounded in your belief that competing ideas could not faze you--somewhat like Byker Bob. Even with that small flaw (if it is one), I am still convinced that, if your real-life personality is close to your on-line persona, you are a thoroughly admirable woman, and your husband and children are very lucky people.
12:05 Connie
ReplyDeleteYet another spelling/typing thing.
I meant "latest Doris".
I know she's kicking. Saw one of her distant family lately.
Nck is many things exactly describing my time space continuum and befitting the 3 requirements for drama since ancient times. Extremely simple, like a magic trick once explained. The perfect monniker for me.
Connie your behaving like a hypocrite. You exposed yourself months ago as being very close to the leaders in UCG. You wrote how you knew what they were saying behind closed doors. No mere member knows such things. No 7th day Adventist would know either.
ReplyDeleteIt is well known amongst brethren from all Churches of God groups that high ranking pastors, ministers and their wives and flunkies are constantly evaluating this site to seek out anyone who is whistle blowing. It is rife and rarther Nazi. You only want certain articles to hone in on yours and others real objectives.
Never underestimate how this site is being monitored. I cannot emphasise that enough.
Dennis has caused me to pause and think more than any minister of COG cults. That's helped my exit out of insanity.
ReplyDeleteDennis's posts are a package deal. There's some worthwhile church material, together with debatable anti God stuff that's not really in keeping with the purpose of this blog.
ReplyDeleteAs already stated, people can just ignore his articles. It's the nature of everyday reality that sometimes there's only various package deals to choose from.
12.47 AM
I recently watched a early episode of the X files (I think it was season 1 episode 8) where a character states that "there's always someone listening." It wouldn't surprise me if sermons/sermonettes are given on the basis of some comments made on this site.
Bob, you need to learn the difference between common sense and the misrepresentation, stereotyping and bigotry that you engage in.
ReplyDeleteNo, I don’t, 7:16. The correct stance IS to be bigotted against Hitler, the Nazis, and the neo-Nazis. It’s a matter of recognizing what is right, and what is wrong. We ought to be very closed-minded towards wrong.
DeleteBB
" ... men with testosterone poisoning engage in ..."
ReplyDeleteWe must never promote the idea that testosterone is toxic, for it plays into the idea of toxic masculinity, which is anti-male rubbish. Masculinity is not toxic. The real issues are a lack of civility, and an excessively competitive spirit, not too much testosterone. Then there is a practical matter ... how does one respond to verbal abuse without fighting fire with fire?
I will make this comment and cease spending time reviewing this Blog. I spent 42 years as a member of WWCOG. I do not claim to be an expert in theology, but I have a large personal library of books on religion and the Christian faith written by those who are experts. I have read and still read those. I also use my computer to read things posted on the Christian faith revealed in the Christian bible. I have written articles and given speeches regarding what I believe a Christian should include in this life. To me the Christian bible has information about building a life that would enjoy eternity. That is what I believe needs to be focused on.
ReplyDeleteWhy am I posting this comment? One reason is that most of what is posted here questions the value of the Christian faith and supports a personal value. That may not be understood, but a person has little value without other human beings. To me the Christian faith points a person to the need for other people and the importance of other people. When we focus on destroying the bad relationships rather than improving good relationships we have lost the relationship the bible is focused on. I left the WWCOG 18 years ago due to the destruction of relationships. Due to aging I turned to improving relationship with our personal families. I do not need to be updated on what the cogs are doing nor do I need to know a world view of the written word that reduces Christian faith. The world has enough problems without destroying the Christian faith.
AB
Annonymous @ 12:47
ReplyDelete--I have never wrote that I am close to leaders of UCG, for certainly I am not, and I have no idea what they say behind closed doors. James Malm is the one who claims "inside information". You have got me confused with someone else me thinks.
--I am not a Seventh Day Adventist- I am Church of God 7th Day
--My concern with Dennis' Posts have nothing to do with his content "per se" , but RATHER that his anti-Christianity content may cause those who are seeking escape from the likes of Pack, Flurry, Cox, Thiel, ad nauseam , reason to dismiss all the valuable information that is indeed posted here. I am asking Dennis to consider the fact that he may be counter productive to that process in his anti-Christian apologetics.
-- I frankly dont give a hang who monitors this site. I hope that I piss them all off frankly. I have nothing to fear, nothing to lose, and nothing that "they can take from me". I have in law relatives who are in the UCG and they are really decent folks. Certainly , do not want them harassed by anyone, but I think they actually feel the same way about any "monitors" or "watchers" that I do, which is they can all kiss off.
-- My real objective is to get people out of iconic one man cults, ALL of which are evil.
-- Janis Joplin 1969 "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose". So just what is it Anon that Im supposed to be afraid of and "might lose"? COGs are crazy, but they are not at the level of Scientologists where they might kidnap you, physically harm you or the like.
So annonymous, what is the source of your information about the so called "monitors", high ranking pastors, their wives and flunkies and just what exactly Im supposed to be afraid of? Tell us your story!
Seems like all the regulars with names or screen names have picked up anonymous trolls over the past several months. I wouldn’t worry too much. I’ve got a theory that these trolls are probably into eproctophilia, and as soon as they discover that we lost our flatulence when we gave up the standard Armstrongite diet, they’ll most likely lose interest and glom on to others.
DeleteBB
"I frankly dont give a hang who monitors this site. I hope that I piss them all off frankly."
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that having ministurds, COG bean counters and lay asskissers "monitor" this site in hopes of catching whistleblowers would be a serious exercise in futility. Especially since only 2-3 posters use what appear to be their real names and little personal info is volunteered in the posts. Of those 2-3, I doubt any of those are interested in joining a COG!
But as illogical as it seems, I knew plenty of WCGers in my day who were ridiculous enough to make a fetish of such things. So hey, you "monitors", if you're out there, enjoy wasting your time with that.
Connie
ReplyDeleteI don't think you comprehend how dangerous the world can be. Perhaps you are too small a fish for some to bother with. But it's not true for everyone.
Some provoke a powerful Cain versus attitude no matter where they go. I have experienced relatives, people in the workplace, who on discovering my religious beliefs, have tried to pick physical fights in order to bloody and shatter me. Slanderous attacks from my former COG have made the jump to my gym. I am not safe anywhere, and need Gods constant protection.
Sun Tzu points out that "information is ammunition.' There are readers of this blog gathering information about you and everyone else here. They hope for a opportunity to weaponize this information.
You never know what's around the corner. You could be stripped of your safe environment overnight. Your enemies know this. Evidently Connie doesn't.
Anon March 30, 2018 at 1:06 PM,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote
If this is truly a place to heal or get solace, then all the atheistic, agnostics, Jewish and whatever other viewpoints just seem to cloud the issue, and frankly inhibits any way to truly move on.
Jewish viewpoints? Try to remove all Jewish viewpoints from your Christian bible. Start with the Old Testament which is 962 pages, vs 292 NT pages, on a bold 10/11 point double column with center column chain reference KJV bible (page size 8.75 x 6 inches). The OT is 3.29 times as much as NT. To put it another way, the NT is just 30.3% of the OT, not even 1/3 in comparison.
Wait, you're not done yet. You still have to take out from the NT all OT quotations, misquotations, allusions and, finally, viewpoints. Did I miss anything else?
After doing all of the above, please tell me what you are left with.
For those thinking that the Jewish viewpoints destroy the Christian faith, have you considered how the claims of the NT destroy not only the Jewish faith but also the Jewish people? You have read 'Jewish viewpoints' on how the NT writers have tampered, twisted and appropriated Jewish scriptures. Yet you still believe the claim of the author of Hebrews that God disregarded Israel, which he made (Heb 8:8-12) while quoting Jer 31:31-34. Nowhere in Jeremiah 31 did it say that. In fact in Jer 31:34-37, God made it clear that it is impossible for Him to cast off Israel.
Notice the similarites between Kristallnacht and Martin Luther's admonition on "On The Jews and Their Lies":
First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly and I myself was unaware of it will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.
Give it a rest Ben. We all know you are the Jewish expert, or at least think you are. We don’t really need every Hebrew word spelled out here or your every thought on them.
DeleteIt's not what Dennis writes that I find annoying, but rather the 'nag' factor. A certain point should only be made so many times unless new information or slant is presented.
ReplyDeleteTwo things to consider. One is when people reach a certain age, they’ve got a collection of about twenty things they repeat over and over and over. The second is, when a younger person repeats the same things over and over, he’s mostly processing stuff externally, and doing it for his own benefit, dealing with something he’s trying to get resolved in his own mind. Most of us are content to let Dennis skate on this either way because he’s had a rougher time than the rest of us. And we do learn stuff from him occasionally. Why not just let it be?
DeleteWe ought to be more worried about whoever monitors our cell phones. I had a conversation with a customer about an anti-static ionized air box last week. His cell phone was setting on a table about 3 ft away from us. Shortly thereafter, ads for ionized air boxes began mysteriously popping up as he surfed the internet. I keep my phone in stealth mode and with the locator off, so didn’t receive ads.
ReplyDeleteBB
The correct stance IS to be bigotted against Hitler, the Nazis, and the neo-Nazis. It’s a matter of recognizing what is right, and what is wrong. We ought to be very closed-minded towards wrong.
ReplyDeleteWell at least you admit to bigotry. But why do you keep lying about who is or is not a Nazi and about what Nazis were really all about? Lying is not recognizing what is right and wrong.
Don't confuse bob with the facts, his mind is made up, and he is okay with lying to defend his ignorant stereotypical bigoted Hollywood version of the truth.
You don’t exist, 6:06. You are a cartoon, a figment of our imagination.
DeleteI grew up in a largely Jewish community. There were still people walking around with their tattooed numbers from the death camps, survivors of the holocaust. The Jews didn’t cause the pre-WW II problems in Germany. The victors of WW-I held Germany accountable to pay war reparations, and the Germans themselves ruined their economy with hyperinflation by printing up funny money with which to pay that debt.
I am hoping that minority people marry into your family. That’s the only way you have any hope of becoming educated.
BB
Are the Jews victims? What were the poor "persecuted" Jews told to do to the inhabitants of Palestine? They were told to go in, steal the land, and then genocide/exterminate ALL of them, men, women and children. Even the animals were slaughtered on occasion. Anything the Jews suffered in history was retribution for their persecution of others and their control, rape, and exploitation of the societies they invaded by stealth. That included Germany before Hitler took it over. They had to be removed from power before Germany could get out from under the economic chaos of the 1920s.
ReplyDeleteProf said:
ReplyDeleteEven though the pissing matches between True Bread and his various adversaries often get tiresome, they do school the rest of us in the ritualized give-and-take of insults that men with testosterone poisoning engage in just before a bar fight.
Sounds like someone is trying to start a pissing contest.....you ever been in a bar fight, prof...???
TK
Blogger Byker Bob said...
ReplyDeleteWe ought to be more worried about whoever monitors our cell phones. I had a conversation with a customer about an anti-static ionized air box last week. His cell phone was setting on a table about 3 ft away from us. Shortly thereafter, ads for ionized air boxes began mysteriously popping up as he surfed the internet. I keep my phone in stealth mode and with the locator off, so didn’t receive ads.
BB
March 31, 2018 at 4:22 PM
Agreed....ironically several times last week this topic came up from two separate sources. You can go to YT and search for "Facebook cat food". It describes a couple saying "cat food" by the wife's phone and lo and behold cat food ads popped up on her screen....they don't have cats.
Also, the word is now that you can get every instance of Google and FB grabbing your data...they will send you the complete file. It is terrifying.
TK
some clown said:
ReplyDeleteSun Tzu points out that "information is ammunition.' There are readers of this blog gathering information about you and everyone else here. They hope for a opportunity to weaponize this information.
You never know what's around the corner. You could be stripped of your safe environment overnight. Your enemies know this. Evidently Connie doesn't.
March 31, 2018 at 1:32 PM
Don't worry....I'll protect you Connie...
TK
Anon March 31, 2018 at 5:27 PM,
ReplyDeleteIt's necessary to discuss the Hebrew words in order to clear up the mistranslations and misconceptions. I'll try to limit them.
Thank you for your advice.
Jewish professor says some of greatest murderers, under Stalin, of modern times were Jewish.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
Excerpt:
And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."
6.15 PM
ReplyDeleteYou obviously worship Hitler and his Nazi party.
You are also obviously on the wrong blog.
Perhaps you can start you own GOG. Call it the Nazi Church of God.
You can state its doctrines, such as the elimination of Jews, the conquest of Russia and the gospel of world domination.
We here at banned, would have regular articles rubbishing you.
Please start you own Herb splinter. Zig Hale.
Bob's view of history is the official one-sided sanitized version. It's the version written by the winners, not by truth seekers. It's pure politics. He will remain ignorant because he refuses to even consider another point of view.
ReplyDeleteYou don’t know shit about me, or what I think, or what I read, Adolf. You just come here to bait people. That’s what you are, a master baiter. Too bad the negative reactions to your baiting are the only recognition or validation you’ll ever receive for your miserable existence. Hope the JDL catches up with you some day, or you get sent to a re-education camp. Or that your wife or daughters run away with some of the minorities you despise.
DeleteBB