Well, we did it again. We have ticked off God's end most holy and righteous end time leader of the one and only TRUE church incarnation. This time I am not talking about Gerald Weston or Dave Pack who is upset, but another church leader. As one of Banned's most avid readers, this guy gets butthurt very easily and then lashes out.Almost-arrested, but not-arrested Elijah, Elisha, Joshua, Amos, Bwana Bob Thiel has mentioned us in his latest Letter to the Brethren.
It would be legitimate to be antagonized by us if we were actaully harassing a true church of God and not some man-made organization.
He writes:
Criticism in Advance
As many of you are aware, certain anti-Church of God often bloggers mislead and improperly criticize us.
Last week, I announced that the Continuing Church of God plans to use animation as a means to reach people that we otherwise may not be able to reach (see Letter to the Brethren: March 8, 2018).
Even though we have not yet made any animation publicly available, notice parts of something that was written and posted against that project today:
Last week, the Church of God’s most perfect end-time leader (sorry Dave Pack, it’s not you) announced he is writing a new booklet on dating. Dreamy Bob Thiel is its author. …Thiel is going to present this new booklet in an awe-inspiring new way on the Internet. He is going to have ANIMATED videos! …The Internet will have a field day when he starts posting these. then watch, he will start screaming PERSECUTION when they are mocked. …Apostate Thiel believes that these animated videos have the potential to start the persecution of his improperly named “continuing” Church of God. YouTube may pull them for being too controversial. PERSECUTION I SAY! PERSECUTION!
Satan is the accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10), and many unwittingly do his bidding. We tend to be criticized daily, but I rarely report about it in the Letter to the Brethren.
In this case, we are being told our animations will be mocked before we have even finished any (cf. Proverbs 18:13). Expect more negative comments on this and other doors we work to go through to as we strive to fulfill Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19-20.
Apostates are those who turned against the true faith, which is not something I did, but is something that the author of that post has done (he was once part of the old Worldwide Church of God–but now is opposed to practically all COG teachings, and seemingly cannot accept that God answers our prayers).
Jesus said:
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you (Matthew 5:10-12).
Anyway, expect that we will have to endure more improper and unfair criticism.
The day you self-appointed yourself and started telling huge whoppers about Gaylyn Bonjour, the dreams and other malarkey you use to elevate yourself into a church leadership position, is the day you opened yourself up to criticism. Just because you are a beta-male and can't handle criticism proves you are unfit to lead a COG. If you suffer this much butthurt over blog posts, what will happen when you really are "persecuted" as you dream you will be in the future?
Apostates are those who turned against the true faith, which is not something I did
ReplyDeleteActually, HWA taught the brethren to stay in the Church. HWA taught that God was working through WCG and that you would lose your salvation if you left. That's why so many stuck around in WCG after the apostasy. They followed HWA's exhortation to endure to the end.
Not only did Butthurt Bob apostatize from WCG, he apostatized a second time when he left LCG. Bob was a pretty lousy prophet if he could not discern Rod Meredith's problems, and if he didn't trust HWA's own judgment about Meredith. Which is more likely, that Big Baby Bob is a true prophet of God, or that he is a delusional narcissist with daddy issues who latched on to RCM when RCM began to flatter him as a generous donor and big tither?
When you put yourself out as a messenger to the world, you are open to critique. When Jesus started his ministry, the religious leaders were, to a degree, obliged to "check him out". But, false accusations and name-calling get mixed with legitimate questioning.
ReplyDeleteBob should not be so sensitive and dismiss critique so readily. He was in Spokesman's Club (and complained about how his attack on football was under-rated) so he would have been drilled in the iron sharpens iron approach to evaluation. And as the COGwriter website has numerous articles that compare his CCOG to each xCOG, he should be expecting similar comparisons.
And, while we're at critique, in his last post on prophecy, I disagree with his analysis of Zephaniah 2, but I'm not going to call him names about it, I'll just state that I think he's wrong, as is the whole HWA-COG paradigm...
Well, Bob is right about football. According to Dr. Daniel G. Amen who wrote "Magnificent Mind at Any Age," football is bad for your brain. Even soccer players have brain damage from bouncing soccer balls off of their heads. Congratulations Bob. They will have to change the rules to make these sports godly.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Dr. Amen is not hard right, so that puts the lie to those who say I only quote people from the hard right. Jordan B. Peterson is not hard right either. By the way, American corporatism is much farther to the fiscal right than Hitler the socialist ever was. So who are the "far right"? Stop judging by self-serving media cliches.
What makes Bob a beta-male? He has more followers than most self-supposed alphas probably do. This whole alpha/beta thing is for monkeys.
ReplyDeleteBob Thiel was advised: "...The day you self-appointed yourself and started telling huge whoppers about Gaylyn Bonjour, the dreams and other malarkey you use to elevate yourself into a church leadership position, is the day you opened yourself up to criticism. Just because you are a beta-male and can't handle criticism proves you are unfit to lead a COG..."
ReplyDeleteAnd then Bob Thiel was asked: "...If you suffer this much butthurt over blog posts, what will happen when you really are "persecuted" as you dream you will be in the future?..."
Of course, Bobby may think he is so much greater than dust, but if Bobby reads posts here on this blog, he may be wondering: how does butthurt affect him, and will that creme displayed really be of any help to him?
In fact, Bobby may be familiar with butt dust, but still may be asking: "What is butthurt? Is butthurt anything like butt dust?"
Well, my wife shared the following with me, and she said outta the mouths of babes come some pretty amazing things:
"The Sermon I think this Mom will never forget was this particular Sunday sermon.
"With his arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look on his upturned face, the minister said, 'Dear Lord, without you, we are but dust.'
He would have continued but at that moment my very obedient daughter (who was listening!) leaned over to me and asked quite audibly in her shrill little girl voice,
'Mom, what is butt dust?'"
It's the Sabbath. Lighten up! I thought a little jocularity for the Sabbath would be nice!
John
@ 6:02 PM, you are probably under the misconception that Beta Bob has followers in Africa.
ReplyDeleteBob is financing a few African preachers who bring their followers to CCOG services when Bob is present. At least one of Bob's African preachers is taking money from two American churches, as a little Internet searching will confirm. Bob is too proud to admit the problem or fix it, as he would then be a pathetic little prophet with an entire church membership smaller than Gideon's army of 300.
If these leaders are all upset about the comments made, then maybe they should correct their course and start apologizing to those they have hurt, refund the thousands of dollars they've taken, and start teaching what they should have been teaching to begin with. In all honesty they should step down and realize that they have no place leading others, because they are leading people to their downfall and they don't have a clue of what any of it is about.
ReplyDeleteBTW love 6:25s comment.
In the 84 years of Armstrongism and its' claims of being the one true and only Church of God, there has not been one case of any REAL persecution that I am aware of. Nobody martyred "for thy namesake". Not one beheading, not one lynching and hanging, not one execution by lethal injection, etc. for being called the very elect of God.
ReplyDeleteI remember when I was growing up in WCG, sermons on Fox's Book of Martyrs. I remember one by Mr. Kellers on persecution who admonished my WCG congregation when facing death by persecution "to be brave and die faithfully".
Some of those considered by the Armstrong Churches of God to be nominal or fake Christians are suffering real persecution - DEATH for being Christians in some middle eastern countries, and in other areas of the world.
Almost arrested doubly blessed Elijah Prophet "Doctor" from a degree mill Bob Thiel wouldn't know real persecution as taught by the old WCG if it were a football hitting him in the face (because he can't catch).
To repeat, in the 84 years of Armstrongism and its' claims of being the one true and only Church of God, there has not been one case of any REAL persecution that I am aware of. A lot of talk about persecution, a lot of "make-believe" but no real persecution by death. Which in some ways disproves Armstrongism as being God's one and only true Church. Wouldn't that be a sign it was the true Church?
Richard
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ReplyDeletehttps://www.antimonkeybutt.com/13-men
No real persecution?
ReplyDeleteWell, if you stand up for what you believe and get fired and your career ruined and left dirt poor, and your friends and family all leave because they think you are nuts, you are gonna feel persecuted, and unless you are literally whipped or killed, it doesn't get much worse than that. In fact, it is perhaps a fate worse than death. Try it if you don't believe me.
The arrogance of power and no proper accountability from leaders for decades has produced a smorgasbord of mini divas who cannot comprehend the truth. Any remark that is not praising or embellishing their victim complex is labelled demonic inspired criticism. The truth hurts and like many corrupt leaders before them they cannot bare the truth to be told. Telling the truth gets you into all sorts of trouble. But keep telling the truth anyways.
ReplyDeleteI see Thiel as emotionally unstable. At some point he will break and what we will see should be spectacular as far as meltdowns go.
ReplyDelete"persecution"
ReplyDeleteDave Pack told his congregation that if they weren't being persecuted, they weren't true members. He then suggested things to do that would invite (unwarranted) persecution. Again, as others have mentioned, the COGs don't know what real persecution is...
The closest thing to persecution in his group Bob ever reported was in one of his CCOG letters, where he quoted one of his African pastors, who claimed he and others were being put in jail for Sabbath-keeping. But, from what I recall, The Overseer didn't treat this as important. What continues to be important is that he had a YouTube vid pulled. While LGBT-bashing isn't "preaching the Gospel", Bob claims to be the Ezekiel Watchman (if that's the correct buzzword) who must "cry out their (Israel's) sins". And he obviously feels that means he must condemn certain groups using YouTube.
So is he trying to say we ought to append a new aphorism to his moniker? "The Improperly Criticized"?
ReplyDeleteif a believer is offended by something a non-believer says or does, the believer needs to do a little more self-evaluation...
ReplyDeleteDepends on who is the true believer.
DeleteAnon 1158 wrote No real persecution?
ReplyDeleteTotally agree, as in Matt 10:34. That makes whining about a blog comment seem even more out of touch.
Bob does not need to use animation to make videos. He already IS a cartoon character....
ReplyDelete(Choose one Bob to be your "alter ego")...
Super Chicken
Atom Ant
Simon Bar Sinister
Snidley Whiplash
Eric Cartman - South Park
Dr. Zin - Johnny Quest
However, my 1st choice for Thiel, (and appropriately named as well) is...
SPLINTER - the mutant rat from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles !
Diversity and multiculturalism have minimized persecution, because the general population is more sensitive to people who are different. Also, if you happen to be tolerant of others yourself, you are less likely to be persecuted. These days, if you are being persecuted, it’s most likely because you live amongst ignorant rednecks (as opposed to more tolerant rednecks- there is a sliding scale).
ReplyDeleteBB
According to the Church of God (7th Day), Herbert Armstrong and all the WCG spin-off groups are the apostates.
ReplyDelete@ NO2HWA
ReplyDeleteIf you could please clarify ... when you wrote:
Bob Thiel was advised: "...The day you self-appointed yourself and started telling huge whoppers about Gaylyn Bonjour, the dreams and other malarkey you use to elevate yourself into a church leadership position, is the day you opened yourself up to criticism. Just because you are a beta-male and can't handle criticism proves you are unfit to lead a COG..."
What are the "huge whoppers about Gaylyn Bonjour" that you refer to? Please be specific. What lies did Bob Thiel say or write about Mr. Bonjour? And, when you reply, please tell us how you know they are lies.
Thank you.
If you want to know real persecution, let me introduce you to my sister and brother in law.
ReplyDelete@ 10:57 AM,
ReplyDeleteGaylyn Bonjour and Bitter Bob differ as to what was said and done when Bob got his "double portion" anointing. Their stories cannot be reconciled; either one or both of them is not telling the truth. Bonjour has no reason to lie about what happened.
This leaves us with the conclusion that Bitter Bob didn't tell the truth. But did Bob "lie," or did he "hear what he wanted to hear"? Many people who have known Butthurt Bob have observed that he has a habit of interpreting conversations in a very self-serving way that borders on delusional. Bob clearly isn't telling the truth about his anointing from Bonjour, but he may not consciously be lying; he may be so deluded that he seriously believes that he is telling the truth.
Most likely, though, as with megalomaniacs such as Gerald Flurry and Dave Pack, is that "there's something Bob isn't telling us yet." We now know that Flurry privately believed he was That Prophet for several years before he announced it to the world. Dave Pack's most recent rantings are consistent with what a person would write if he thought he were somehow the second coming of Christ. Bob can't keep something so important bottled up indefinitely. Eventually we will see him express the fullness of his delusion... and when he fails we may have another Terry Ratzmann or David Koresh on our hands.
BB
ReplyDeleteDiversity is a recent misleading label for the preferential treatment of some racial groups. Multiculturalism is a code word for the claim that all cultures are equal. This places the Taliban culture, which forbids educating women, on the same level as American culture.
Contrary to what its adherents claim, this injustice does not lead to tolerance and peace. That is, unless one believes that victims intimidated in silence is 'peace.'
That's the same 'peace and 'unity' one finds in the Armstrong abusive cults.
Aaaannntt! Wrong answer, 1:15! When I left the WCG, I remembered how the ministers had taught us that if we ever left “God’s Church”, we just wouldn’t fit in anywhere ever again. So, starting back in 1975, I found that by intermingling with those from other cultures, my new friends were much more accepting of my differences, and welcomed me into the fold. The Latino community were especially happy to have me, but also Asians as I studied the martial arts. I had already spent many hours being an insurance agent in the black community, had grown up amongst Jews, and had friends from many different backgrounds.
DeleteWhat I found, especially in the beginning before the mainstream became more sensitive towards minority people was that the minority people did not want special treatment. Most of them simply wanted to be seen and treated equally with the majority. Black people did not want to be pulled over and hassled by the police for “driving while black” through white suburban areas. Third and fourth generation Mexican Americans did not wish to be thrown to the ground and asked for their papers in illegal alien sweeps. People of color felt included for the first time when members of their particular groups began appearing in advertisements, in positive roles on television and in films, and they were no longer automatically excluded from home rentals, job interviews, and awards for achievement.
Acceptance, inclusion, and equal treatment under the law does work, and has worked for decades, now, and has resulted in large numbers of hard working minorities arriving solidly into the middle and upper classes. The only people for whom diversity and multiculturalism does not work are the people who are the saboteurs who are determined that it will not work. Nearly ever civilized contemporary nation today has diversity. This was inevitable the moment international travel became so easy with the jet age. The internet, a recent addition to daily life, has further facillitated it.
I don’t understand why the most backwards amongst us have suddenly come out of the woodwork following the most recent election, and apparently are willing to start a series of civil wars to reverse decades of success and progress. Internationally, diversity and the understanding of other cultures has kept us out of devastating world wars, and has elevated the lifestyles of most citizens of the world. We are able to live amongst the people we could only study about in our junior high Social Studies textbooks.
Had I not embraced all of this, I would not have had the career and life that I’ve enjoyed. A Pakistani millionaire, and personal friend of long time standing hired me in the late 1980s because he knew that of all the applicants, I was the one who had friends of all colors, and could increase business for him. There was a time when our secretaries would see a minority person walking for the front door, and they’d automatically say, “Call Bob! That’s got to be one of his customers!” I’ve been fighting and countering ignorance such as what you spew here for decades now, and have witnessed the enlightenment and elevation of humanity as more have joined me. So, yeah. I’m going to be fighting your ignorance at every turn. Oh, and by the way. Women have been part and parcel of the great struggle for equality. So, looks like you’ve got just about all of the white women against you just as a starting point.
BB
Anon 1151 wrote ...he [Bob Thiel] may not consciously be lying...
ReplyDeleteRemember: ...it's not a lie, if you believe it. - George Costanza
Anonymous March 16 at 11:58 PM said, “Well, if you stand up for what you believe and get fired and your career ruined and left dirt poor, and your friends and family all leave because they think you are nuts, you are gonna feel persecuted, and unless you are literally whipped or killed, it doesn't get much worse than that. In fact, it is perhaps a fate worse than death. Try it if you don't believe me”.
ReplyDeleteMY COMMENT – No thanks! There are degrees of "persecution". The Biblical definition of persecution as taught by the old WCG is either death or imprisonment. Nothing mentioned in the Bible about getting fired, being criticized on an internet blog, etc. The Bible does mention family estrangement for being a believer as well as Christ’s references that you will be hated among men, but offhand I don’t think it was considered persecution in the same connotation with the aforementioned Biblical definition. That is what I consider real persecution - like the people who Thiel considers to be fake or nominal Christians being put to death for being Christian.
Why wouldn't God bless people who lose jobs because of the Sabbath with better jobs?
Tax Cheat Ron Weinland was imprisoned and considered himself “being persecuted”. His imprisonment had nothing to do with his faith and had everything to do with being a thief.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion and requires employers to reasonably accommodate an employee’s sincerely held religious beliefs unless doing so would impose an undue hardship on the employer. We can thank our close Armstrongite relatives, The Seventh Day Adventist Church, for laying the legal foundation which protects Sabbatarian religious observance of the Seventh Day Sabbath. When I applied to Ambassador College, it was the only College I applied to that required taking the ACT entrance exams. ACT exams are given on Saturdays. I received special accommodation for a Sunday exam. When I arrived, I found a small classroom full of Jews and Seventh Day Adventists. I was the only one in attendance from the Worldwide Church of God.
I come from the old WCG of the 1960s/early 1970s. In that era, all sermons I ever heard regarding persecution involved death or imprisonment.
To repeat, in the 84 years of Armstrongism and its' claims of being the one true and only Church of God, there has not been one case of any REAL persecution that I am aware of.
Richard
BB
ReplyDeleteYour 'equal treatment under the law' and 'understanding of other cultures' is not the same as diversity and multiculturalism as its defined today. The problem isn't 'the most backwards amongst us' but rather Bob not willing to depart from the warmth of the crowd, when the crowd is wrong. It's cowardly to not face the problem by coming up with personalised definitions that evade the problem. Diversity and multiculturalism ( as defined by the media) are simply immoral.
By the way, financially, minorities do get 'special treatment' since they get government handouts at three times the rate of non minorities.
Back in the ‘90s when diversity and multiculturalism classes were beginning to have a major impact on large corporations, employees of my clients at the time which included Motorola, IBM, Allied Signal, and our local Pacific Bell outlet which is now Century Link freely shared the materials from their classes with me. They were excited by it, liked it, and it all sounded like the stuff our mothers taught us as part of being polite. The work environment has improved tremendously for the typical employees of these companies.
DeleteThe problem some have with this is that it is a drive towards inclusionism, and unfortunately some would prefer to see certain individuals continue to be marginaliized and excluded, rather than accept them and work with them.
I immediately recognized diversity and multiculturalism as a good thing, because as WCG members during my youth, we were often ill thought of, teased, and excluded. Last two years of high school, my family lived in a major metropolitan area where we had friends of all races and backgrounds. My quality of life vastly improved over what we had experienced living in an inbred, redneck town.
About 15 years ago, we started to see an influx of Arabic people move into my neighborhood. What most folks don’t realize is that the children of these immigrants, due to public schools, Americanize very quickly. Soon you see them staffing the registers at Walmart, and on dates at the movies and such.
Someone raised the issue that the there is a long history of diversity and multiculturalism not working. That is because these concepts were attempted during vastly more ignorant times. Most thinking people realize that if we all work together, it makes us stronger.
BB
Richard
ReplyDeleteLook at the way members are abused in the church. Many are abused even more so at work and at home. Some members are constantly verbally mistreated at work. Your comment seems so out of touch with the real world.