I rarely post much from COGWA (Church of God a Worldwide Association) here because perusing their website is one of the most mind-numbingly boring things one could imagine. Given that COGWA is nothing more than a dissident carbon copy of United Church of God, they have never set out to reimagine their church or the things they preach into a new and relevant model for the world today.
So thanks to a reader here we have this little tidbit, on how things have NOT changed in the church, to examine.
Starts around 35:29:
A second category we'll quickly go to it show honor to the Brethren show honor to the Brethren. We saw in previous scriptures how especially there in first Thessalonians how the brethren were just doing a fine job of honoring each other of caring for each other. Are there ways we can improve there? Let's look at Romans chapter 12 in verse 10. Romans chapter 10 12 in verse 10 we'll read verses 10 and 11
Now the New King James starts out by saying “be kindly affectionate to one another” “be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love” I like to read that to you in the new American Standard translation. It says this, “be devoted to one another in brotherly love kindly affectionate” I don't know I often wondered what is why the emphasis? We could say be kind to one another be affectionate to one another but apparently Paul said there's a “kindly affectionate”. I'm not sure there can be an unkindly affectionate. But he's emphasizing that be really affectionate... be and that's why I think the new American Standard says “be devoted to”.
So one of the trends that we've always been concerned about in the church is our lives getting so busy with other stuff that no longer does our life revolve around the church. Now the gray heads among us remember the days when everything in your life revolved around the church. Did it not? Every week revolved around the Sabbath and the Sabbath was the most important thing and everything went leading up to the Sabbath. And you got to the Sabbath and you went to Sabbath services and then you ate together with the Brethren. Then you went to spokesman club for a couple hours then the next day you got up and drove halfway to Timbuktu to do some YOU activity because all your kids were involved first with basketball and then with track and then with... you go on and on. Volleyball and okay what just it wasn't one basketball team it was an A team and a B team and a C team. And was there ever a weekend we didn't travel? Caring for those things?
My wife got out to our first assignment and oh you're the cheerleading coach, oh really? So we spent how many fundraisers raising money to do what? To buy cheerleading outfits for our girls. Because they couldn't do cheerleading in school. Now why we thought cheerleading was that cat's meow I'm not sure but we did at the time. And that's not to say it's a bad thing but anyway. Won't get off on that.
But everything revolved around the church. And so we had what? We had food co-ops. You have any here? Food co-ops were where you could get stone ground whole wheat. Not just not as regular whole wheat. Now why stone ground is better than metal ground I don't quite recall. But everything... we had Church cookbooks right? Some of you still got those right? Church cookbooks that you baked stuffed you made stuff out of the church cookbook.
So everything in life revolved around the truth. And troubling at times is to see instead of the truth in the church being the hub of the wheel upon which everything else revolves… The concern is and that maybe is what being talked a little bit about here when he says be be devoted to one another. That the church cycles in instead of being the hub, it's kind of out here on the rim somewhere. And it cycles into our life once a week as it comes around but other than that we may not think of it much. Maybe that's what Paul was concerned about here? When he tells the Brethren to be devoted to one another and I really would like to help out so-and-so but man I got so much going on here. I don't have time to serve. I don't have time to take care of others.
That's a sad thing there was a time we had a woman back 30 years ago in Massachusetts a woman who's stricken with cancer sad situation but we were able to do such a thing that I had 24-hour a day care for this woman by church members. Now again it's a different culture most of the women didn't work outside the home and I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing, it's just the way it was.
But everything revolved around the church and around the Brethren. So Paul may be lamenting a little bit to say “be sure were devoted to one another” and preferring and it says to “give preference” Continuing here Romans 12 verse 10. “Be kindly affectionate be devoted to one of the brother love” and then it says “in honor giving preference to one another”. In honor giving preference to you, putting others first, you first attitude. Verse 11 “not lagging behind in diligence fervent in spirit serving the Lord” You see when we serve others were serving God Himself, serving Christ. With that turn over to Matthew chapter 25. Matthew 25, in verse 37, you're very familiar with this section of Scripture without a doubt. Because every time we read it it kind of sticks us a little bit. Kind of prods our conscience, or pricks our conscience. Proverbs 25 verse 37, remember the scene here there's the the picture of who will be in the kingdom. And what did they do in order to be able to be brought into God's kingdom?
And so there's this explanation, this kind of proverbial explanation, of what these people did to be considered worthy of being brought into God's kingdom. Christ said, you know to the righteous, come on. In verse 37 “the righteous will answer him saying Lord did we see you hungry and feed you or thirsty and gave you drink?”, remember what Christ said? The reason I'm having you all in is because when I was sick you took care of me. When I was down and out you watched over me, thirsty you gave me drink. And they're saying, “why we didn't do that”, verse 38. “When did we see you a stranger and take you in or naked and clothe you? or when when did we see you sick or in prison and come to you? and the king will answer and say to them assuredly I say to you and as much as you did this to”... who? “one of the least of these my brothers”. Not to the general world we can't care for the whole world. That's not wrong to do that kind of kind of thing for the world. But I guess our our thought really would be is that once everyone in the church is taken care of, great, let's go help others. But until that time let's make sure the Brethren are cared for. “...in as much as you did this, these things - one of the least of these my brothers you did it to me.”
This continual looking back on the "glory days" of the church from decades past is a denial of how sick the church was at its core. It is one thing for members to care for one another with godly works so that no one is uncared for, but letting the church tell you that you need to reorient your life so that the church is central to everything you do is bordering once again on cult speak.So we're to show honor to the Brethren by caring for them by fellowshipping with them by doing all we can to help. By encouraging them so we ask how might we show honor to the Brotherhood of believers? Well we can all meditate on that and maybe come up with some good suggestions even for the seminar this afternoon.
No Church of God member needs to let any of their organizations control their lives with one activity after another, till they are exhausted and compliant when they are preached to on Saturdays. Look at how it wrecked thousands of lives over the decades in the WCG and then on into the hundreds of splinter groups. The typical church member's life is between them and God first and not between them and the church first.
Did you notice Myers' sneaky bait-and-switch? He wrote:
ReplyDeleteBut everything revolved around the church.... So everything in life revolved around the truth.
Christ tells His followers to be lights to the world, not just lights to other church members. A healthy Christian's life will of course revolve around the truth, and those around such Christians will notice their shining examples. But notice Myers' assumption that if your life revolves around the church it is revolving around the truth. That's a dangerous fallacy, and it is at the heart of what distinguishes toxic cults from healthy churches.
Myers is paid by his church, so of course his whole life revolves around his church.
ReplyDeleteAs for the members Myers pastors, wouldn't a healthy minister be proud of his members who are mature in their Christianity and don't need to come running to their pastor for guidance? Wouldn't a healthy minister be proud that the businessman he sees at Sabbath services is so successful that he often flies out of town during the week and as a result can't make it to the Wednesday night activity very often? Myers, however, seems to long for the days when members knew they were supposed to buy a blue Buick, but felt obligated to consult the minister regarding which model of Buick to buy.
Fifty years ago, when Myers was young in a church with exploding growth, most of the members were newly attending within the last five years. Today, the typical "first generation" member has been in the church for 40 years or more. A healthy church that teaches its people the doctrine and practice of Christianity should have a lot of mature members who aren't constantly running to the minister for approval. The fact that Myers thinks of this as a problem tells us a lot about him and his church.
My parents always taught us to put our lives in this order: (1) God. (2) Family. (3) Church.
ReplyDeleteChurch was #3, not #1. This message inverts the order of things, and not in a good way.
And as 11:42 AM alluded, if your entire life is wrapped up with church and church people, how on earth are you supposed to be a light to the world? You can't light up something that you rarely encounter!
This may be a little off-the-main-point but an observation nevertheless.
ReplyDeleteYou want to know exactly how much our lives revolved around the church? Because when I was reading the transcript of Dave's Sermon, I literally - and I'm not ordinarily good at all at picturing things in my head - could see this man preaching right down to how he said the scripture, repeated the scripture - and I did not watch the video.
There were certain patterns and nuances, vocal-isms and stances, inflections and tonal qualities that were so ingrained in the services week after week after week that when Gary said "numbing" I knew exactly what he was talking about. You don't have to "watch" a COG sermon to hear the COG sermon in your head.
I think what drove me crazy the most was the fact you nearly nodded off when the speaker paused for 30 seconds between quoting scripture verses....
"Let's turn to Psalm 23 and verse 1...." .... Pause..... pause..... pause.... "Psalm.... 23... and... verse 1...." ... Pause.... Pause....
Now to the point of the post - If I recall correctly, Dave Myers, in the heyday of the church, was one of the elite Ambassador Students, Young Ambassador, cream of the crop popular students who had great joy in the popularity and favor of the church and the ministry. I'm certain for him it was easy street having his life revolve around the church. For those of us who were not in such a fortunate position, the experience was not as gratuitous. But the experience is not limited to WCG, COG's, or Sabbatarian sects as a whole.
In the mainstream Christian world, it is the same thing. Many churches, every week, have both morning AND evening services, (10:30 and 6:00), PLUS a Wednesday worship service. Sunday mornings is Sunday School or Christian Education classes, plus, there is Kid's Church. There are small groups, Bible Studies, outings, picnics, missionary activities, nursing home trips, progressive dinners, potlucks, talent shows, contadas, choir practices every week,worship band practices, senior activities, revivals (week-long worship services every day), praise services (for the contemporaries), youth events for the teenagers (much like the YOU program), youth SERVICES for the teenagers (with dedicated Youth Pastors), and the list goes on and on.
So it's nothing out of the ordinary or unique to have your life revolved around your social club, for those who do that sort of thing. If you can keep your congregation interested with activities, and they revolve around the church, they're completely and totally invested and tied in. Therefore, whether you know it or not, your life is the church, whatever kind it may be, for both the good, the bad, and the ugly.
UCG gives the same message. Recently one of the local elders spent time talking about how we don't "serve the brethren" enough. He insists the Sabbath should be the hardest working day of the week for "serving": bringing the most food, staying the latest, even having men's club on that day. I guess this guy has no friends or home life to enjoy. He wants to dictate each minute for the flock.
ReplyDeleteMyers says: "We had food co-ops. You have any here? Food co-ops were where you could get stone ground whole wheat. Not just not as regular whole wheat"
ReplyDeleteI have a food Co-OP , its called COSTCO !
@ 1:18PM, your parents may have heard something similar to what this LCG article is promoting. From what I heard from some friends around LCG, this simple message was very, very controversial and ruffled some feathers.
ReplyDeleteNot mentioned is that there is a dark side to the 'be kindly affectionate to one another.' As a member, I noticed that it's the most evil ministers that endlessly talked about togetherness. The reason being that these ministers and their minions needed victims to exploit. Verbal abuse and bullying was common. It was also common for one group to be doing the giving and another group to always getting the getting. For example, one single woman expected that members to pay her restaurant bill in a non dating situation. Many members were robbed by church parasites.
ReplyDelete'Kindly affectionate?' This is a good example of the church teaching members to fake reality - a bully trait. Affection has to be earned, it's not a right.
It's not unusual for ministers to be verbally bashing members in one sentence, and then demanding that they love the church (fake reality) in the next sentence.
The Fake Reality Church of God.
A family that's close, siblings that are close, behave much differently than most of those in the ACOG's. Those in a healthy, loving family are open and sincere through good and bad, the hard stuff and the easy stuff.
ReplyDeleteThe ACOG's never felt like a functional family. Too much churchitis, love of rules and ruling over, a love of we're better than you or them, and fear mongering for money, most of the time. Always feeling like you were under a microscope waiting for the judges to pronounce GUILTY!
There are a very few that stood out above the crowd. They were few and refreshing as a cooling rain in the hottest part of summer. After one of their rare sermons I felt like there was hope. They built up instead of tearing down.
There are a very few that stood out above the crowd. They were few and refreshing as a cooling rain in the hottest part of summer. After one of their rare sermons I felt like there was hope. They built up instead of tearing down.
ReplyDeleteJust enough to not completely drain your battery. Bring you down so low and then give you just a ray of hope to keep you in. At least, that's how I see it.
Like being in a desert and someone gives you an empty can of drink with just a few drops in there. Gives you hope, but no sustenance.
IMO, that's almost the definition of torture.
Also. I am not implying such a move is intentional. I can't really imagine people stooping so low as to do such a thing?
........
I imagine the ministers, such as Dave, and members still left no matter the splinter, feel somewhat nostalgic over what hindsight seems to convince us was a more simple time. It was hardly simple but may seem so compared to today and all that has gone down with the Church implosion over the past two decades.
ReplyDeleteIt was too much back then of course. I remember speaking twice in New York and then loading up kids for Basketball in Buffalo. I got about two miles and my temperature shot up to 104. I pulled over, said "I give up" and another car took the kids. I went home and found myself with pneumonia for the next five weeks. All the running caught up to me and it was typical
I know how devastating the demise of the church was for my Kentucky congregations, which were big and full of humble folk doing the best they could. I loved Kentucky. Deer rifles to my head and angry dogs and all! lol. The church was their life. Without it, the majority never went anywhere. The Feast was like going to Fantasyland. They shared and made sure everyone got to go. When it ended, a huge part of their life and meaning went with it. I remember on member sold his airplane to buy a bus to take kids to SEP because they had never been so far and one so much in their lives.
It was community, over done in places, some expecting everyone to do everything all the time. I recall "the great Orange sale" in NY where those before me required everyone to sell so many cases. It was a burden and members were buying up the cases they could not sell but were required to take home and sell. The second year I was there I simply told everyone to do what they could. Take nothing they could not sell and relax about it all. We'd do with the funds we raised. The local elder Gestapo enforcer was livid. So instead of making the $30,000, we made 28,500 and it was well worth the lay off the "required" stuff. The church got happier and the elder, who was friends to my face ended up telling everyone when I left I was the worst thing that ever happened to the church. They say that when common sense, love, mercy and understanding gets in their way I guess.
Anyway, lots of memories, good , bad and darn right ugly.
"So one of the trends that we've always been concerned about in the church is our lives getting so busy with other stuff that no longer does our life revolve around the church. Now the gray heads among us remember the days when everything in your life revolved around the church. Did it not?...My wife got out to our first assignment and oh you're the cheerleading coach, oh really? So we spent how many fundraisers raising money to do what? To buy cheerleading outfits for our girls. Because they couldn't do cheerleading in school...And so we had what? We had food co-ops...we had Church cookbooks right?...So everything in life revolved around the truth."
ReplyDeleteJust replace "the church" with "the party" and it all becomes crystal clear. One can easily imagine that the gray heads in Europe are waxing nostalgic right now too.
"Oh, for the good ol' days when we were young, ladies our age were still sexy, and everything was simple. Everyone knew that the nazi/fascist/communist party propaganda was true, and everything revolved around the party..."
Sure, the totalitarian regime in our lives was religious rather than (overtly) political, but a totalitarian regime is a totalitarian regime. If you're already in tune with the ideology, then you don't notice the loss of freedoms you weren't exercising anyway. And it makes the rest of life a lot simpler when someone else does the thinking for you and takes away all of those annoying uncertianties...
I loved Kentucky. Deer rifles to my head and angry dogs and all! lol. The church was their life.
ReplyDeleteAccent and all?
And with much respect to all people from Kentucky, I digress just a tad....
Ah, good ol CAIN-TUCK-EEE. :) When it rained, it was 'comin up a cloud'. Oil was ohlll... Everyone was fixin' to do stuff, Shower was "sharer", everyone was "gettin 'er done" when they wanted to do something. Brethren was "Brothern", and of course, "Y'all". Though I did know some church people in Kentucky for a few years, (I'm from north of there - we have a Midwest accent of our own LOL), I don't recall I had the experience of hearing a good ol' downhome Kentucky service. I'm sure it would have been downhome. And maybe with a banjo or two? :) I think Kentucky was what cemented my love for Bluegrass and country. I love listening to Foggy Mountain Breakdown.
They certainly do have their own culture. I remember passing a few moonshine distilleries on those hilly, hilly roads and thinking to myself that I was far from home!
But if there is one thing I am sure of. The KY churches must have been close bonded people. Because in those hills, there really isn't a lot of opportunities to branch out - especially with our church culture the way it was.
Thanks, 4:18. I can see how that would be threatening!
ReplyDeleteMy parents are pretty old-school, but they do have a good balance in this area.
I sometimes wonder if part of the reason we didn't do more activities back in the day was simply lack of money, and distance...
Dennis said, “I imagine the ministers, such as Dave, and members still left no matter the splinter, feel somewhat nostalgic over what hindsight seems to convince us was a more simple time. It was hardly simple but may seem so compared to today and all that has gone down with the Church implosion over the past two decades”.
ReplyDeleteMY COMMENT – From my perspective, it must be very difficult for anyone leftover from the glory days of the Worldwide Church of God who remains in an Armstrong Church of God today. I left the Church when it was at its near peak in 1976. At the time, the Church demanded your life being separate from “the world” and being God’s called out Elect. Let’s not forget, the Church at the time I left forbid members dating and marriage outside the Church. Every aspect of a WCG members life revolved around the Church with fellow “Called out Ones” so I guess it is no surprise that those remaining in ACOGs today still preach the Church is to be your life.
What has to be hard is watching and experiencing the Church implosion that occurred over the past two decades. Consider Mt. Pocono Feast of Tabernacles regularly had 12,000 in attendance, and Jekyll Island had 8,000 in attendance in the 1960s and 1970s. Today, we see ACOG Feast sites reporting 400 in attendance and it being considered a large Feast gathering. The combine Baltimore/Washington/Annapolis – Eastern Shore 3 congregations had a combined attendance of 1,300 people. Then later 2 Washington/Baltimore congregations turned into 4 congregations with each City having a North and South/East and West congregation. In other words, the Church was growing. Today, a typical ACOG congregation has maybe 40 – 60 in attendance. Smaller ACOGs have less. Where 12,000 brethren in one Worldwide Church of God came together annually, small multiple groups gather annually – and don’t even speak to one another.
Young people in WCG raised separate from the world had two brick and mortar campuses of Ambassador College – the semblance of a real college. Ambassador College is gone and liquidated. Today, young people have laughable Church Colleges in Herbert W. Armstrong College (PCG), Ambassador Bible Center (UCG) and Living (but now defunct & dead) University (LCG).
Mr. Herbert Armstrong, who was supposed to lead us into the Wonderful World of Tomorrow, is dead and gone. His religious empire that the remaining ACOG members helped build through multiple tithes, offerings, and Building Fund Offerings over the decades is now gone. Grandson Mark Armstrong’s feeble Work and the grossly misnamed InterContinental Church of God is the only ACOG with an Armstrong attached to it.
To watch and experience NOTHING turning out the way Mr. Armstrong said it would almost 50 years ago has to be hard.
So Dennis’ point about members still left no matter the splinter, feel somewhat nostalgic over what hindsight seems to convince us was a more simple time and all that has gone down over the past two decades rings true. For many Dennis, the WCG was the Church’s glory years.
Richard
To watch and experience NOTHING turning out the way Mr. Armstrong said it would almost 50 years ago has to be hard.
ReplyDeleteUnderstatement of the century. For all of us, no matter which direction we ended up going from 50, 40, or 30 years ago, when virtually everyone here on this very forum (or at least, a great many of us) were singing the same songs at the same time at the Feast either together as a church or, later on, during "The Transmission". I think it's safe to say that no one prepared for what happened. The reality we live in now wasn't anticipated by anyone - and all of us, I am sure - were shell-shocked into trying to adapt - like if you suddenly fell out of an airplane and had to learn how to pull the chute to save yourself for the first time in mid-air.
Oh yeah. Dying at age 27 and becoming a spirit being would have been easy. The hard part was figuring out what to do with life after he disappointment, after of course blowing about 5 years partying. Most of us had relatively early life bucket lists, and we missed out on some of the things that would better have lent themselves to timelines in the teens and early twenties, but it could have been a much uglier thing to watch than it actually turned out to be for most of us. It actually provided much more zest for life because of the many deprivations.
DeleteBB
Most of the ACOG cult members I've been around are not nice people and would stab you in the back Givin half the chance.
ReplyDelete1.14 AM
ReplyDeleteThat was my experience as well.
1:18 said, "And as 11:42 AM alluded, if your entire life is wrapped up with church and church people, how on earth are you supposed to be a light to the world? You can't light up something that you rarely encounter!"
ReplyDeleteI've attended with COGWA and LCG for many years. They absolutely do not care about being "a light to the world". They admonish members to come out of the world, segregate themselves, etc. They warn us that having "worldly" friends is a great way to fall prey to losing our crowns by becoming corrupted by our neighbors and co-workers.
These churches are turned completely inward.
I don't think members would ever be overtly rude to their neighbors or co-workers but they certainly aren't going to give them more than the time of day.
The reason we don't often see stories on Banned about COGWA is because the are still on good behavior.
ReplyDeleteThis is standard operating procedure for ACOG splinters.
As soon as they split/form they work hard to be on their best behavior so as to bring as many brethren to their group as possible.
But, and it's almost like these men can't help themselves, over time they fall right back into the overbearing, lording-over, power tripping know-it-alls that they were trained to be at AC.
When LCG 1st formed they were nothing like they are now (I know, I went with them and stayed for 15 years). COGWA is no different.
They honeymoon is just about over.
Anon 5:00AM said:
ReplyDeleteWhen LCG 1st formed they were nothing like they are now (I know, I went with them and stayed for 15 years).
By "1st formed" are you including GCG, meaning you were with GCG/LCG from 1993/95 to 2008/10? Or were you with LCG alone, from 1998 to 2013? I ask because in my experience LCG took a major turn toward cultishness after Doug Winnail became CAD Director in 2005, and even more so after Meredith had his stroke in 2008 and in some ways became more unhinged than before. Ironically, Winnail seems like far less of a "cultie" than his predecessors Bryce and McNair, but what I think happened is that previous CAD Directors had the spine to confront Meredith over some of his more cultish tendencies, while Winnail's approach was to avoid conflict and fly around the world, leaving Meredith unchecked.
cogwa is the epitome of the cogs masquerading as sheep in wolves clothing. While the hypocrisy and self-righteousness of many cog leaders are blatantly apparent, cogwa lies low in a sinister way. Judgmental and condemning attitudes from the self-righteous hirelings are as rampant in cogwa as in other cogs, but just more carefully concealed from public view. cogwa is a splinter founded on lies and slander more than anything biblical, harshly ruled by the cronyism, and for the financial support of, the good ole boy's country clubbers. It is a whited sepulcher to beware of. And right, it is so mind-numbingly boring without an original thought of its own!
ReplyDeleteJon Pinelli, one of the mindless and arrogant hirelings of cogwa and entitled son of the infamous Richard, openly spoke badly of those whose lives were not entirely wrapped up in the organization. Many members lived hours away from the meeting place and could not attend regularly due to distance and finances, but by his standard of righteousness they were not true members if they weren't there, and were treated as scum and spoken badly of to others. Their lives were not committed to God if they couldn't be there to hear his mindless sermons or watch a video, he implied often.
ReplyDeletePinelli was as closed-minded as any of the wcg inbred hypocrites of the classic hwa era. In response to a discussion about the Noachian flood and overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary, he lambasted in a sermon those who believed the evidence and shouted, "The flood covered the whole earth. I don't care what anyone says." Case closed. How can you have an honest discussion with someone as arrogant as that? Another frequent favorite subject of his was to ridicule Obama in sermons. Also, while condemning to some those who utilize channeling and new age supernatural healing techniques as being demonic and witchlike, he later openly accepts an openly-adulterous woman into his congregation who makes a business of channelling and divine healing.
Its not surprising that his boot-licking tactics have brought him favor with the cogwa hierarchy. That is the mold they are from.
This attitude reflected in the above comments are sadly not limited to COGWA. I have encountered the same attitude in UCG. It is an attitude that prevails througout many cog groups. Those that serve despise those who they perceive as not serving, attending, working as much as they do. The them and us attitude is rampant. Pharisees without a temple. Kings without a throne. Does God walk with such cold hearted despising men ? They haughtily despise you for not being clones of themselves. If they cannot control you they will despise you. They falsely accuse the brethren of all sorts even when you do good with a clean heart. Despisers and accusers of those who are good. We are looking at the complete death toll of leadership within the cog world.
ReplyDeleteGood comments 11:42 and 5:00.
ReplyDeleteThe ministers still just do not get it. I guess their life didn't change as much as the members. They are paid to make the Church their life and when Myers talks about making a schedule for church members to give 24/7 help to a hospitalized woman he forgets that congregations were much larger and localized back in the day.However, the work required for Myers would be the same--create a schedule for the members to follow. But, with congregations of 40 or less where some people are 2-3 hrs away the scheduling would not work. They talk about the golden days, but moved even further from it when they split UCG in half.
The second HWA died without fulfilled prophecy, and without leading them all to the place of safety, it became a nostalgia act. The nostalgia act was lessened in effectiveness from what it could have been by those leaders’ ego problems. Instead of working together, they started their own little groups, with each leader bringing into play the changes for which they fault one another.
ReplyDeleteIt is ironic that someone from the COGaWA, the latest splinter, would be complaining about some of the results, having been the most recent to exacerbate the problem.
BB
Biker, your comment at 10:32 is the most inane comment ever.
ReplyDeleteRSK, Israel's chief Rabbi just referred to black people as "monkeys". Do you think he'll get called on it by the MSM?
ReplyDelete