That list of names of ministers and wives may be just a list of names to most of you, but some of those are astounding individuals, others are unique and some are just well ......
Mr. and Mrs. Behrer - class acts - always talking with the lowly common folk. MR. & Mrs Capozzollo - both really good people and hard working. Kevin Denee - too much like royalty. The Goebels are fine minsters. And who wouldn't love Mrs. Goebel who came to her first sabbath service in the 1960's wearing a mini-skirt with go go boots. Davina Lischak (Mr. Pack's adopted daughter) is the ultimate girl next door. Tom Marchione was well loved in the New York area. The Mews and Quimby's all young and talented. Justin and Stacey Palm - Justin was Mr. Pack's personal assistant - both of them very nice people. James Turck, unfortunately, was around Mr. Pack for far too many years. Steve Wazny is a guy everyone would want as their best friend - he had to leave the ministry because he couldn't afford to feed his 4 teenage children. Mike Webster was very well liked by many. When he left many followed. Last I heard he had close to 200 with him. The Farrell's, Harrington's and Toews all had good reputations.
Shortly after Mr. and Mrs Behrer left and some of the others on this list as well, Mr. Pack commented; "Oh well, all the old ones are gone, that just leaves the young ones and that's the way I like it".
Real people, real lives and an unobstructed tyrannical church leader who claimed he was God. What of any good can come from that?
Reminds me of a song I used to hear back in the day....
ReplyDelete"Oh, that's the way, uh-huh uh-huh
I like it, uh-huh, uh-huh
That's the way, uh-huh uh-huh
I like it, uh-huh, uh-huh
That's the way, uh-huh uh-huh
I like it, uh-huh, uh-huh
That's the way, uh-huh uh-huh
I like it, uh-huh, uh-huh"
Dave Pack is a sick man. This will all end badly for him. Appreciate the insight from one who knows
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have an update on Dave's physical health? I seem to recall that he had some kind of major health issue several months ago - a heart problem, perhaps. Has he alluded to that recently?
ReplyDeleteDave Pack likes to be surrounded by young boys.
ReplyDeleteI get the feeling that it's more about unquestioning loyalty, rather than age, per se.
ReplyDeleteDave Pack is sort of like Donald Trump in that way.
I was a member during the departure of almost all of these ministers very soon after deciding to leave myself.
ReplyDeleteIt was the general consensus (not openly spoken) that every one of these ministers and their wives, tried their very best to exercise their duties as loving ministers while under the hawkish eyes of David Pack. I can write countless stories of my personal interaction with each of these ministers from the time before I officially became a member to my own departure from the cult.
Ministers and wives on this list have gone out of their way for many members in ways some will never realize, not even those members themselves because it was never about getting public credit. Some ministers on this list who in the past succumbed to dave pack's persuasion on handling member issues have wholeheartedly apologized because they realize what they did was WRONG, hence why they have left. They could no longer uphold the duties of a minister as taught by David pack himself because he undermined their every ability to practice their office.
Those current worshippers of packs and ministers will tell you stories to discredit the people on this list, not "all minister" who have recently left were good to the flock but it is safe to say the majority on this list are deeply missed and their departure has been a shock to every member.
I think dave packs quote should be read for the way the members relunctantly want to admit but know is true:
"Oh well, all the "UNCOMPROMISING" ones are gone, that just leaves the young "GULLIBLE" ones and that's the way I like it".
This is sad. Too often, in critiqing the hardcore groups, we forget that the long-suffering members are a church community, with shared beliefs, who honestly believe that they are participating in something of spiritual significance. They overlook the savage transgressions and ineptness of their “wolf”, because that is what they are programmed to do. We may rejoice in a ministerial exodus from the RCG, but it is possible that those who left are members’ last link to sanity, the one last factor that makes their church tolerable.
ReplyDeleteLet’s hope that more of the regular members take their cue from the ministers who have left. Dave is not going to change for the better.
BB
12:02
ReplyDeleteAmen to that!
Nck
Yes, thank you for mentioning that Dave Pack's craziness includes Dave Pack's stupidness.
ReplyDeleteI knew Charles and Pat bishop when they were in the PCG in Houston. They were very fine people. I am glad to see them high tail it out of that cesspool. Have not seen them in in 10 years. Wonder where they went.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThe Devil and David Pack orchestrated a very nasty betrayal indeed. Hopefully any decent people who got deceived initially by the RCG scam will smarten up and be able to overcome the ravages of the Devil and David Pack.
You have to wonder how these far-extreme COG ministers who have started their own crazy and wacky church were so willingly enabled by the mother church. Instead of being dealt with, they were shuffled around from circuit to circuit, from area to area, bringing controversy and dread to each area that they were assigned to.
ReplyDeleteI personally think that it all had to do with HWA's policy of taking the word of the pastor far and away over the word of a congregational member. This policy pretty much made any complaint by a member null and void if a person as cunning as these people display they are can explain it away by verbal trickery. Perhaps a compromise was made internally to not fire them, but simply ship them away. I don't consider that an excuse at all because the complaints, so far as I can recall, were numerous, confirmed each other, and severe. To simply move an extremist from one congregation to another to ravage the same treatment on another group seems unconscionable, by any standards.
I'm sure many a member of the old WCG congregations in Akron, Ohio have many a story to tell. I remember well I was at a Family Weekend in Akron, Ohio, and I had asked a particular member how things were doing over there. He said something along the lines that the defecation was hitting the rotary oscillator, not in those exact words. I can recall the expression on his face. It was much like "Well, here we go again. I'm getting so tired of this".
Many times I saw Pack when I was at these sporting events over in Akron. I always got a bad vibe near him. He never seemed to acknowledge you - and you really never wanted to acknowledge him. Wearing that black trench-coat was foreboding when he would walk around in that high school. The only moment with Pack that made me laugh was when he was playing around with his height-adjustable podium. Even so, I didn't dare laugh out loud. I was well aware of his reputation.
It's kind of scary thinking back that I listened to him preach, was around him at outings and events, and saw him many times throughout the year. I hadn't a clue back then that someday he would go the direction he went. He wasn't the only one that I had encounters with throughout the years. I have stories about Weston, Pack, Weinland, McNair (Raymond), Schurter, McCrady (Sr.), who can forget McCrady, Sergeant, and others that makes me wonder how in the world things happened that happened. But then I recall the whole story and all I can say is - yep, when you're that into a cult, you can sure think some weird and crazy things that really make you do some pretty far out there stuff. It's just too bad that this far out stuff has effected so many people so horribly.
As the Most High, Most Holy and Specially anointed Presiding Evangelist of the Lucifer Camp of Gehenna, I would like to say that I approve of this type of hierarchy and wish to implement it in LCG when I get the chance to do so.
ReplyDeleteI would also like all of you to congratulate me on my reselection....ummmm, I mean re-election as President of the LCG Federation. The majority of the youth (being as few as there are to begin with) supported me with over 80 percent approval rating.
I would also like to say that I once called the police and sent a lawyer after a young man in the Mississauga congregation who shall remain nameless because I found a young twenties something year old guy to be such a big threat to my power.
I ended up criticizing the Garay behind their back while I was at the Howard Johnson and Inn in Scarborough, Ontario because they were rebelling against me like Korah and his gang. My using the podium to speak out against them was justify in the eyes of my God (which is obviously myself).
I did not allow the blind guy in Ottawa to get money from other brethren for his braille machine because I knew that it was a fraud. How ridiculous that a blind man (Charles Pond) needs money to help him get a braille machine. Everyone knows that a blind man can read and write just like everyone else, which is by paper and pen (well, touchpad and keyboard nowadays.....I am showing my age since I am over 65 like most Pope in the Universal Church).
I would also like to say that all of you who are slandering me on this website shall be throw into the lake of fire. My God, who is on His throne and that shall never chance will never allow his fourth (right after Jesus, Hebert and Rod) most important servant to be slander. Remember, GOD IS ON HIS THRONE. THE BIG PICTURE!
Now...to my main point, I have a product to sell you! It is known as the truth.....However, first, I need to fix the storefront that is apparently unappealing (cannot believe that I would utter such nonsense since I am infallible).
PRESIDING EVANGELIST AND MOST HIGH SERVANT OF THE MOST HIGH,
VLADIMIR WESTON OF THE LUCIFER CAMP OF GEHENNA!
Dave Pack and Trump?
ReplyDeleteHopefully Trump is cleaning up the swamp a bit. Dave on the other hand, is a swamp monster.
Sigmund Freud was a drug addict, a sex pervert, and a neurotic. He said his own father was a pervert who Freud blamed for screwing up his siblings. Freud also stole credit for the idea of psychoanalysis. Yet the psychology profession made him a near-god for decades. They still give him credit for the crap he stole. Shows what a messed-up world this is. No wonder Armstrongites yearn for a better world. No wonder people don't trust the lying commie fake academic establishment.
ReplyDeleteSeveral people & some ministers who left or were booted out of RCG have gone with The Abiding COG. This is a group where "like-minded" former RCGers can empathize with each other. They basically espouse the old WCG doctrines (whether right or wrong).
ReplyDeleteIt appears as though you can't hear any current sermons, unless you sign-in or go on board with them. Perhaps, they have some "secret" message that only an Abider can understand?
All of these COG's aspire to offer something the other does not. The number one reason why any of us seeks to go to church is becuase as scripture says: "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick."
ReplyDeleteWe know our lives are in shambles, being sick we sought Jesus to heal us beyond physical ailments. We yearned for someone who has answers to help us nagivation a life of suffering. Sometimes suffering can be too much for one's spirit to take.
So "enter" COG's claiming to preach and offer a way of life vastly different than traditional and pagan christianity. But in the end you end up finding your experience in dealing with the ministry to be much like attending your local protestant church.
Most people commonly say the reason they dont like church is because of the leadership being hypocritical, nothing changes in the COG's.
Human nature is human nature.
If I were one of the "young ones" located in Wadsworth I would be having second thoughts about being so closely associated with Pack. Oh, I am sure they think they will quickly rise up in the ranks, but those upper ranks are a deadly place to be. You won't last long. Plus the creep factor is glaringly obvious!
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:57 AM, I must disagree. You are absolutely correct, of course, to point out that many Protestant churches have hypocritical or venal leadership. However, the vast majority of Protestant churches do not equate their church government with the Government of God. If you withdraw your membership from First Presbyterian Church of Springfield, you can become a member of John Calvin Presbyterian Church down the road, and nobody will seriously or credibly threaten you with hellfire.
ReplyDeleteYes, human nature is human nature. However, the particular sickness of Armstrongism is that it encourages and rewards the worst in human nature as one goes deeper and higher into the movement.
You can't really equate Packism and Flurryism with Armstrongism because life in the WCG was much different than what it is under Pack or Flurry. Pack and Flurry are a lot more strict and controlling. They have gone off the deep end.
ReplyDelete2.54 PM
ReplyDeleteI had WCG ministers in the 1980s that went 'off the deep end.' The first minister I had considered it theft if a member made a independent decision. He believed that only ministers have the right to make decisions. You had to hide any choices you made from him and his boot licking minions. He's still a active minister in some splinter.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous on March 20, 2018 at 2:54 PM said...“You can't really equate Packism and Flurryism with Armstrongism because life in the WCG was much different than what it is under Pack or Flurry. Pack and Flurry are a lot more strict and controlling. They have gone off the deep end.”
Gerald Flurry and David Pack both pretended to be HWA's faithful followers in order to attract HWA's followers and their money. Then, both Gerald Flurry and David Pack went on to change, mangle, warp, and pervert HWA's major teachings far worse than any of the other splinter groups that they had both criticized for making comparatively minor doctrinal changes.