Ever since the United Church of God ruptured with an appalling number of ministers and members jumping ship to join Church of God a Worldwide Association, it has been going overboard on how "unified" it is as a church. The track record over the years has proven otherwise.
UCG struggles to remain relevant as it seeks to draw in members with personal appearance campaigns, billboards and other drastic measures that have all ended up being failures.
COGWA likes to portray itself as a better version of UCG. It is currently bragging that it has a 19% increase in income while UCG struggles. It also seems that Jim Franks is taking a big dig at UCG in the comment below:
On In Accord, 24 May 2018, President Jim Franks described how he spent the Pentecost weekend in North Carolina, attending services on both days, and driving more than 800 miles to hold discussions with all the elders in the four congregations there.
After quoting Acts 4:32, he commented, “Striving for unity is always something we do. We do it because we want to be more effective in preaching the gospel to the world and also caring for the brethren.
But you know, we live in a time 2018 when there is a lot of cynicism. I see it and I see the reasons why. We can have an organization that will make a claim, “We’re unified now.” Well sometimes the loud cries of unity are only a mask to cover up division. We’ve seen that as well, and it’s always disappointing, and sometimes disillusioning.” Church of God News
Jim Franks has a particular talent for promoting whatever he wants the congregation to believe. He commands authority, and the simple folk believe him. What he often said in private was very different from what he spoke in a sermon. He was a little man of insecurities and ego who followed instructions from Pasadena to the letter. Just looking at his face in the photo turns my stomach. Maybe it's the memories of duplicity, or his enforcement role in an organization that harmed and destroyed so many lives. So, so thankful to be out of the sickening political & religious b.s. nonsense that permeated the organization in its relentless appetite for money, power and control. Laughable that he thinks he is doing "God's Work" and the illusion of unity he portrays. Or more accurately, as he said in a sermon many years ago, "if you tell a lie often enough, people will believe it."
ReplyDeleteWell Jim, you and Clyde lied to your "members" that United was going change doctrines and go more Protestant to cause this split so you and Clyde could be the top dogs.
ReplyDeleteHow can you sleep at night knowing some day you will have to answer to Christ about your causing division by lying, so you be the ones in charge of tithe income?
Your deceitful behavior and others in the past have betrayed your Savior and have caused much distrust in the ministry.
UCG is becoming more and more Protestant... so what's your point?
DeleteThese groups are striving for something impossible (complete unity), and claiming they have it as a supposed proof that they are God’s one and only. I know that the phrase “e pluribus unim” does not appear in the Bible, but it usually reflects reality. People are generally united in different endeavors perhaps around one loose central theme, but maintain different individualized or personalized aspects to their support for that theme. Support often becomes the most intense and the most united when the group is under attack.
ReplyDeleteBB
ReplyDeleteThe disUnited Church of Godlessness seems to be united only by the people's common desire to do all the evil they can while playing church.
Perhaps the Holy Spirit has left the building, and the demons have moved in.
In the business marketplace, you must strive to achieve what is known as the "Unique Selling Proposition".
ReplyDeleteIn other words, what is it that makes you different so that a client chooses you.
There is little difference between attending church at UCG, or at COGWA from the consumer level. Both organizations are struggling with their marketing, have an aging ministry and membership, and are well past the "curve of relevance" to 1st world audiences.
So the trick is to "throw smoke in the air", praise this smoke with "oohs and aahs " in a pitiful attempt to ingather a few more COG refugees from other groups, perhaps LCG , besides UCG and maybe even a few from the absolute hellhole churches of Weinland, Pack and Flurry .
It also is done as a way to maintain power and position, as both UCG and COGWA do have elected boards, albeit not with general enfranchisement of the membership, but with at least those of their fellow ministers. A step in the right direction , similar to the Magna Carta giving rights to the Nobles, but real progress will not occur until the TRUE CUSTOMER ... the laity, have a voice and a choice , by vote, to hire and fire the ministry.
Old Rod Meredith just rolled over in his grave.
ReplyDeleteCOGWA is experiencing a 19% increase in income and they were already at the top of the leader board for money.
LCG loves money but they just can't seem to make the budget balance.
I predict this year will be even worse for LCG as many jump ship and make a move to COGWA.
A lot of people I know were hanging on in LCG hoping that the toxic atmosphere would improve when Mr. Meredith died but it hasn't. In fact, Mr. Weston is worse in many regards.
If COGWA does start a Charlotte congregation (I read that on this site somewhere but have not seen evidence that it is actually true) I suspect LCG will slowly begin to hemorrhage people.
UCG seems to be in the left ditch (very liberal) and LCG has fully committed to full-on Pharisee/ Gestapo land while COGWA seems to avoid a lot of the negative press while walking the middle ground.
What's funny is I can also predict that Mr. Weston will spin the continued loss of members. Instead of taking responsibility for the problem by recognizing the bully mentality of the ministry he will some manage to accuse the brethren of not being "fully converted" and spin that it's actually a good thing and somehow making "God's true church more pure". I can hear it now.
@ 9:49AM,
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, most of the senior LCG ministers who are widely respected by the brethren as being true shepherds rather than sheriffs are old and are completely dependent on LCG for salary or retirement income.
If, however, just one conscience-stricken senior LCG minister in Charlotte were to jump to COGWA and either lead or simply attend a congregation there, I expect that LCG's Charlotte congregation would hemorrhage members. LCG employees and their families would have to stay with the LCG congregation, but many if not most of the others would eagerly leave.
Dick Ames probably won't leave LCG, because he is old and tired and has spent his lifetime as a cheerleader for the leader, whether that leader was HWA or Tkach or Meredith or Weston. However, if he were to move to COGWA, I am sure that hundreds if not thousands in LCG would follow his example. COGWA won't accept his Wedding Supper in Heaven doctrine, though, so his pride may keep him in LCG even while he sees the organization crumbling around him.
Doug Winnail probably won't leave LCG, because he is old and tired and COGWA will not accept his pet new doctrine that changes HWA's understanding of the end-time falling away. However, if he were to move to COGWA, I am sure that hundreds if not thousands in LCG would follow his example.
Wally Smith probably won't leave LCG, because he would no longer be a bigshot in his new organization. However, if he were to move to COGWA, I am sure that many in LCG would follow his example.
Charles Ogwyn may be an interesting person to watch. Seeing how far LCG has drifted from the doctrines and values that his father espoused, he very well might leave LCG, and as an unpaid elder he wouldn't suffer financially. If he were to move to COGWA, I am sure that many in LCG would follow his example.
One way or another, the Laodicean Church of God (LCG) is beginning to lose its grip on its members. Many are already listening to sermons from other groups to gain the spiritual sustenance LCG isn't providing. All it will take is one major crisis in LCG, and Weston may find himself left with a literal Gideon's army of a few hundred remaining members in the United States.
Unity is the effect, the consequence, the result of loving God and man. Contrary to what these church leaders teach, it's not a primary to be commanded.
ReplyDeleteIt's like loyalty, it has to be earned.
Anon 7:15 You are wrong. Kilough and Frank's did not lie. UCG has changed. certain fractions of UCG have tried apostacy on with members ever since 2010. What has gone on in UCG since the split has been a total disgrace. The truly converted members know it.
ReplyDeleteUCG has not wholesale changed doctrine, but those of us here who watched the rush to ordain men to replace all the elders who left know that it just isn't right. We have people serving as elders and pastoring congregations now who many UCG members know have no business doing those things. There are still good, solid people in UCG, but the effect of Victor Kubik's leadership has set this organization on a bad course that probably cannot never be reversed or fixed.
ReplyDeleteAmon 3:14 These good solid people you mention still in ucg are very few and far between. They have turned a blind eye too much.
DeleteI did a google search to find out how many still attend UCG. I found out that their estimated weakly attendance was 7500 and they have 408 congregations. I did the math. That is an average of about 18 per congregation. That means that many congregations have less then 18 members and my guess would be that less then half of the congregations have more then 18 members. Since 18 is the average there most likely are very few congregations with 50 members and even fewer with 75 of more members. My question is---"How can a church so small support a 12 man council of elders that are do doubt highly paid?". I did the math again. There are only 625 members per each elder on the council.
ReplyDelete4.43 PM
ReplyDeleteI can still remember my WWCG congregation of about 200 and the combined local area get togethers of one thousand. How times have changed.
Isn't it a interesting phenomenon that I still think of the members as they looked decades ago, even though they have obviously changed.
"UCG is struggling"?! The UCG Treasurer claimed at the Conference of Elders meeting that income this fiscal year has been beating the budget.
ReplyDeleteYes, Armstrongism is almost a bullet-proof scam. Much can go wrong, backfire and fail, and it still continues to pay off the scammers. Look at all the mistakes Weinland made, the failed prophecies, and his conviction for tax fraud. His income has diminished, but he’s still making a living.
DeleteBB
HWA was right about one thing: traditional Christian holidays are rooted in ancient paganism. But he didn't go quite far enough. All of Christianity is rooted in ancient pagan religions -- including the central figures, which have prototypes in other pagan religions spanning B.C.E. as well.
ReplyDeleteIt hit me with almost paralyzing force the day I understood that modern Christianity is nothing more than ancient pagan theology that has been re-packaged, re-marketed and re-sold as modern Christianity. Jim Franks might be sincere, but that doesn't make him beliefs and teachings correct. His alleged unity is about as accurate as the religion he preaches. If it had any legitimate substance, the COG's wouldn't be scrambling so hard to be relevant.
12:44 PM says
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:15 "You are wrong. Kilough and Frank's did not lie. UCG has changed. certain fractions of UCG have tried apostasy on with members ever since 2010. What has gone on in UCG since the split has been a total disgrace. The truly converted members know it."
Some examples please, but I doubt you can come up with one!
7:53 PM says
"UCG is becoming more and more Protestant... so what's your point?"
What's your point? Give examples. Bet you can't.
they lied !!
DeleteAnon 4:53 AM, now it's you who isn't going far enough. Judaism, even as Jesus practiced it, is rooted in ancient pagan religions.
ReplyDeleteYHVH was around before Judaism, as one of several minor Canaanite deities later associated with particular tribes. The Hebrews were monolatrists long before they were monotheists. Anciently, the Hebrews did not deny that Chemosh was validly the god of the Moabites, nor that other peoples had their own legitimate deities. The Babylonian Captivity is what radically changed the religion of the Hebrews, as exposure to Zoroastrianism led to what became "Second Temple Judaism" -- a newly monotheistic faith that nevertheless was divided into several major and many minor sects. Some of those sects relied on the Temple; others, such as the Essenes, had little contact with the Temple cultus, accusing the Jewish leadership of impurity and improper religious conduct. When the Temple was destroyed in 70AD, the Temple-based sects suffered irreversible defeat, and the main surviving competitors were the sects that became forms of Rabbinic Judaism and those that became forms of Christianity.
Anon 7:11 oh I can come up with many instances. But i gain nothing in being smug. I like many others have repeatedly told UCG Cincinnati. I very much doubt anon 7:11 that you are a mere member. This straw man's argument of shouting loudly that nothing has changed has also been rife over the past eight years. No one is fooled.
ReplyDelete9:37 AM says
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:11 oh I can come up with many instances. But i gain nothing in being smug. I like many others have repeatedly told UCG Cincinnati. I very much doubt anon 7:11 that you are a mere member. This straw man's argument of shouting loudly that nothing has changed has also been rife over the past eight years. No one is fooled.
But I am a mere member and you can't come up with any examples, because there aren't any. Just give the readers here one.
9:37 AM says
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:11 oh I can come up with many instances. But i gain nothing in being smug. I like many others have repeatedly told UCG Cincinnati. I very much doubt anon 7:11 that you are a mere member. This straw man's argument of shouting loudly that nothing has changed has also been rife over the past eight years. No one is fooled.
But I am just a "mere" member and you can't come up with one example! Give the readers here just one.
To: Anon 8:28 AM
ReplyDeleteYes, I have known since exiting the WCG that the Jewish high holidays also have pagan origins. Good summary though, thank you. Can't help but wonder if someone like Jim Franks, who is very much into history, has ever pieced all this together; or if this religion power-control-money thing is just a job because he isn't qualified for much else with a worthless degree from AC.
It is clear that this blog will give preference in their opinions to those who are against the truth group. It is obvious that UCG is a liberal group in every sense, with washed out doctrines, very short skirts, long hair in men, informal dress in services, in COGWA change represents power and money, inflated egos, double nuptials in deacons, ministers, these facets in COGWA and UCG are laodicea, on the one hand the lukewarmness on the other hand they think themselves spiritual rich, LCG instead is the group that defends with zeal the truth and practice, that is for me, they are not rich or liberal, They assume that they are not perfect, but they ask God because they help them to find their truth .... What do they think about this? ..... Who is more like the grub that the bible describes as Laodicea?
ReplyDelete