In the middle of the summer in 1984, Herbert Armstrong flipped his lid about music at SEP. Jowels were probably flapping fast and furiously. You could probably hear him yelling down the 3rd floor and in the elevator. It probably wasn't a good time in Headquarters!
It seems that he was very upset about the choices of music that were at SEP back in the 80s. Apparently, somebody told him that they were going behind his back playing "Unacceptable Music." Which led to an immediate press release from Armstrong himself. That was to be read to EVERYONE.
In short, he had a tantrum.
I wonder exactly what music was playing that he got so offended about!
Madonna's "Like a Virgin" didn't come out until October in 1984. So that wouldn't have done it.
One of the biggest hits of 1983 was Toto's "Africa". Nothing offensive about that one!
Of course, Micheal Jackson's Billy Jean was a huge hit clear up through 1984. This could have done it.
For a variety of reasons!
Lionel Richie's "All Night Long" came out in late 1983 as well.
There weren't other songs that were especially scandalous in the Mainstream in 1984. To most of the world.
But in Armstrong-Land, anything except classical music, musicals, Young Ambassadors, and Dwight Armstrong - and a few easy-listening stars and muzak type songs were scandalous. And somehow, the other music "Damaged" the kids.
Herbert probably thought that the beat of the music would arouse all of the SEP'ers into wild parties of forbidden fornication. He always said fast beats were too "sexual". Of course, though things did happen at SEP, most of the campers just enjoyed music that was a little different than "Praise Ye The Lordo" or "Oklahoma" or "Singin' In The Rain".
Well, you might ask - what happened? We don't know. But this happened just a day later.
Guess what folks?
No clarification was ever issued. And nobody knew this ever happened, because it was never read.
Could Herbert Armstrong have become enraged at the rumor mill?
Did someone give Herbert misinformation?
What REALLY went down at SEP camp - or Headquarters - that summer? We may never know. If someone here knows, it would be interesting to know the backstory on this.
But what this was is an example of the many rumors, conspiracies, and incidents that happened frequently at Headquarters as detailed in the Ambassador Reports, and from first hand reports of life in Pasadena. This one just happened to make it to the Pastor General Report. It never made it to the general membership - this kerfuffle about the music at SEP that get Kermit Nelson appointed as the Camp Director, where he remained for many years later. Wes White, a contributor here at Banned, has detailed other controversial incidents that have happened at Headquarters as well. The atmosphere at Headquarters was often not what we thought it was, out in "the field".
submitted by SHT
Whatever was listened to, I can guarantee you that neither HWA, nor the ministers would have been familiar enough with the various genres of what is commonly called rock n roll to identify them or the era from which they came. Take my word for it, HWA would have been just as outraged over the playing of some instrumentals by the Ventures as he would have been by Black Sabbath's "Sweet Leaf" or Wilson Pickett's "I Found a True Love". It all got glopped into one single genre: "Devil Music" Or as HWA would say "tuned into Satan".
ReplyDeleteStevie Ray Vaughan was voted "Entertainer of the Year" in 1984 by the Blues Foundation. I'd like to think that the campers had the good taste to be all over that. HWA. would have opined that it sounded like roosters screaching.
Another example of the church culture in which a accusation is a sentence.
ReplyDeleteIt was rampant while I attended. And when proved wrong, the ministers never apologized. Nope, it had nothing to do with members being denied due process. Rather it was always the snitches fault. How could the ministers possibly know that people sometimes lie or distort the truth. Yep, the ministers were so pure and virtuous that their minds couldn't comprehend that people lie.
The ministers are innocent of any wrong doing.
I know in 1983 we had campers taking Harold Faltermeijer (Axel F) on their Sony Walkman to camp. Music on electronic instruments. There was the first Hip Hop. Queen's "We are the Champions (1977) was a big thing.
ReplyDeleteOf course we had the Ross Jutsum "Welcome Mr Armstrong song" featured in the 1984 "Heart of the children.
In the manual there were quite a few beatle songs also.
I wasn't really used to the new electronic music but what shocked me most were the (2 of 3 Rocky Balboa films the entire trip to camp. I found "modern" music ghastly at the time.
!985 There was a lot of Neil Diamond tapes in the kitchen area, then campers started inserting their own tapes during kitchen duty with was swiftly changed to YA music after complaints about the loudness in nature. (but perhaps the lyrics too)
Then there was lovely/ tough Becky with whom I listened to "The Beasty Boys" on the Walk man. (One at the time of course) Also there was some mild rock music with the line/barn dance. I thought the type of music less shocking than the dancing in a line, clapping your hand in the air and not hold a lady.
There was the ski crew singing "All my exes come from texas that's why I hang my head with sweet Eileen at Abiline....." But I believe that was before camp, no campers around yet.
nck
I also recall the Smithy of Buchanan presentation, where a world renowned sword maker would expound upon his craft and the use of it. I know some Anglo (NZ, AUS, US) male responded by getting themselves a Kilt but some of the young ladies from AC were quite dismayed by the horrid descriptions of what a skilled swordsman might wreac upon their little homestead in the millenium.
ReplyDelete1983 was also the year Mr Armstrong did a surprise inspection of one of the girls dorms and instead of a symbolic peak inside decided, to the horror of the counsellors, to look under the matrass/sleeping bag. All could imagine what teenagers could have hidden there besides the usual dirty undies, or knickers as they called them.
I recall Michael Jackson THRILLER was huge at the time. I think if someone had played the Thriller album some AC staff from "Salem" might have gone into a hissy fit with all the demons and witches. But I am not in the know as to what report caused HWA to write what he did. In later years Bruce Springsteen, Born in the USA was played by campers.
nck
Did Armstrong even write the first press release ? Did not read like his writing voice.
ReplyDeleteLife for the normal ministry in WCG was, as Churchill is said to have noted, "One damn thing after the next". (His definition of history) I went to WCG to be a pastor. No bones about it. I grew up Presbyterian and its ministry was a calm, educated and impressively sincere in my experience as a kid. There was NO hint of scandal, personality conflicts and certainly was not lead by one man who thought he knew it all and others praised him for it.
ReplyDeleteThere were many "to be played in the churches" tapes I never played. There were "rules" and "updates" I never applied to my local church. For example, In Kentucky, we sponsored the most popular "Prom" for kids for three states around. It was amazing and the kids did a great job in every way. Somewhere two kids screwed each other at a church "prom" and so now we can't have anymore of them. Oh hell no, that's not going to happen and we continued to sponsor our prom with much success. To this day, grown adults, then teens remind me just how much fun that was in Somerset, Kentucky.
Joe Tkach called to tell me that a local member must deleaven his convenience store for UB. I had told the member it was merely an object lesson and that home deleavening was just fine and not to worry about it. I never bothered to pass Joe's edict on to him. Nothing came of it and rarely did.
Stand your ground lurkers, with men who oppress you with nitpicking edicts meant to control and homogenize you.
I learned real quick in the ministry "ask and you shall not have, do not ask and all things are possible."
I read WCG literature for about 7 years and when I made the decision to contact "HQ" for a minister to visit it was around 3 days latter the minister came to my home and it was after that visit I knew I didn't want to be a part of that church. The minister made it clear that my taste in music, movies, and television shows was unacceptable within WCG.
ReplyDeleteThe songs that HWA heard was Abba's "Fernando" and "Dancing Queen", both of which greatly disturbed him.
ReplyDelete...and frankly, I dont blame him ;-)
Dennis
ReplyDelete"Stand your ground lurkers?" You seem to be blind to the fact that other ministers left you alone because they considered you one of their own, plus you had considerable performance power. This is not the case for ordinary members. Ministers give themselves the right to verbally bash and tear down those who ignore their nit picking edicts.
We get the occasional 'stand up to your oppressors' comment (often women) on this blog. They are plain naive about the real world. They seem to live in a ivory tower.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDid Armstrong even write the first press release ? Did not read like his writing voice.
October 23, 2018 at 4:54 AM
Very Good.
I happen to trust SHT on his research, not his analysis but his research.
If I personally would have to decide right now on the basis of the text I would be 100 percent sure HWA did not write that release.
I mean common:
-HWA apologizing??
-Calling upon his authority as pastor general ???? common an apostle maybe.
To me it sounds like some "illiterate wannabe company man burocrat" not a marvelous copy writer. Tkach himself possibly. And then the ridiculous revocation. As if HWA had to hide something. The more I think of it the more I read it as the writings of some lowly buttkisser.
But hey, HWA may have had his off days.
nck
http://www.herbert-armstrong.org/PGR/1984%200801%20PGR.pdf
ReplyDeleteThis sounds more like HWA.
A band of ministers informs him in a heated way about the modern music being played. HWA in typical mode immediately acts before thinking.
A day later he hears the music and frankly DOES NOT KNOW if the music is satanic or not. He may have even liked it since a couple of ministers liked it and he probably too. But he needs to back up two opposing sides of ministers. possibly two generations. So he writes the above and settles the manner and withdraws his earlier statement.
This is the typical type of entrepreneurial manager, personality types like Stan Rader or me could get a hold on real easy because of our emotional detachment, superior IQ, forward thinking skills and planning ability. I'm not sure if we would draw crowds like HWA though, for that you need the fatherly heart to heart emotional skills HWA had.
Real easy guy in my assessment.
nck
719
ReplyDeleteI was not and am not blind to anything concerning some ministers/members issues and experiences. In my personal world of members and myself no one had anything to fear from me. I let back into church any and all Gerald Weston bounced in SC if they wished to return. Gerald's loyal deacon crew in Greenville reported all this to Gerald regularly and faithfully.
Wow, Connie. So, the campers were using great restraint, listening to only the most lightweight possible "sissy-rock", and HWA still got pissed? Even Kermit the Hermit must have felt sheepish about enforcing this mentality, although I suppose he bit down hard on his lip and soldiered through it.
ReplyDeleteOh well. While the Strawberry Alarm Clock and Jefferson Airplane were topping the Billboard Hot 100 Charts, HWA, GTA, and the lackeys were complaining about the Ambassador Big Band playing Petula Clark's "Downtown" at student dances and sock hops.
Connie, what do you find wrong with Abba's 'Fernando' and 'Dancing Queen'?
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly, they are not my favorites when it comes to musical offerings.
We do plan to take our elderly parents (who were once in "The Church") to a production of Mamma Mia.
Fernando
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQsjAbZDx-4
Dancing Queen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFrGuyw1V8s
NCK
ReplyDeleteI asked if anyone knew the backstory, and you found it! Apparently the correction was sent just before - or at the same time - Tkach sent his message.
Even though this does tell a great deal of his view of the backstory of what happened somewhat - it does not negate the essence of the post. In fact, it confirms the main point of the post: HWA's hotheaded temper that caused action without self-control.
HWA flew off the handle completely - FIRST - and acted on impulse, rather then using restraint and investigating first before casting judgement.
It looks like he ended up "rejecting totally all the music that had accumulated through the years at Orr", and decided to "be responsible" for selecting good "popular music". Which itself is interesting.
By the way. I appreciate your trust in the research I do. I know you and I have strongly opposing viewpoints regarding Herbert Armstrong. At the very least, I'm glad you know that my research is genuine, trustworthy, and accurate. Everyone is entitled to their own view regarding analysis.
I wish someone could produce a copy of the sing-along book that we used at SEP in the 60's. It was from Imperial Schools and had quite a few "pop" songs from the 50's and 60's that had questionable lyrics. AND I could swear I remember GTA singing Smoke Smoke Smoke that Cigarette at a sing-along in front of all of us around '66/'67! Oh, but that was ok because it was GTA of course.
ReplyDeleteI remember a red paper back sing along book and I think I have one in the attic.
DeleteNck, there were always ministers who tried to out-Herbert Herb for brownie points ( Dave Pack comes to mind), and if they exceeded HWA’s comfort level, he would diplomatically countermand them.
ReplyDeleteYou realize, Anonymous 11:36am, that song about cigarettes mentions people die from them!?
ReplyDeleteModern music is clearly degenerate and promotes no end of anti-Christian values.
ReplyDeleteStand up to your oppressors and you will get fired or kicked out of the church. That has been my experience.
ReplyDeleteStand up to defamatory liars and you will be called a troll. Every time.
ReplyDeleteYes.
ReplyDeleteThere are many ways of analyzing a problem.
One could point at the detoriation of the frontal lobe of the elderly. Causing primary filters for social contact to function less.
Also there is the infighting and show of loyalty as BB points out. Clearly the issue was brought to HWAs attention through "direct access". So it is not about music but about a ministerial dispute.
I just don't see HWA on his way to Amman or the Austrian president listening to 55 sep songs to establish their satanic origins. I can gather however that he is balancing out two factions of ministers on the issue at hand.
The deeper case in the early 1980's is first the awareness of the huge attrition rate of teenagers in the church. Hence Youth 81 magazine et all.
But WHY would music and teenagers suddenly become an issue?
In the 1980's the first post 1972 wave of ministers's kids are turning 12, 13, 14. Thats why the topic is trending.
With the former acceptance of huge attrition rate the concerns of the young were of less importance. Suddenly they are and in 1984 we see the "hearts of the children campaign."
It's like the analysts who did not see the "arab spring" coming. Huge group of people/demographics turning 20 years old with good education and no jobs. Recipe for revolution.
Or the European populist parties who speak of "waves of immigrants flooding Europe." While the overall feeling of unease or friction was caused by the sudden bursting on the scene of millions of kids turning 25 in about the year 2000 who previously hid behind mammas skirt and not being noticed and now claiming a place in regular society.
Ah well. Statistics, youth and the side effects of demographics.
Nck
6.11 PM
ReplyDeleteNot all modern music is degenerate. Christ in the book of John asked the Father to not take Christians out of the world. That is, we are to remain in the physical society, but to pick and choose our music and other values. If society was 100% rotten, why would have Christ made the request?
One of the reasons I find the topic of interest today is because at first sight it seems relevant today.
ReplyDeleteOne can look at it from the perspectives I cited. Organizational, demographic, religious.
Another perspective is that the early eighties brought "inner city" topics to mainstream. The new music styles came from the city "Breakdance, Hip Hop, etc etc. Armstrongism as an Adventist movement is for a large part agricultural.
So in the early eighties we see signs of the "culture war" that presently plagues this nation. The age old divide "city vs agriculture", inner city vs rural america.
The middle class vs the worker.
Today exarcerbated by the "haves vs have nots".
nck
There was a clear divide between people who grew up listening to the big band style music and rock and roll. The big band style aficionados are now over 70, and popular music in all its variety dominates. The younger people today can thank the boomers from the 60s and 70s for popularizing the current styles.
ReplyDeleteThere is so much variety these days, you can pick the styles you like.
I can still remember my primary school teacher saying "Elvis Presley is stupid, and he knows it."
ReplyDeleteWow, GTA really complained about the Ambassador Big Band playing Petula Clark's "Downtown" ?
ReplyDeleteI remember teens at Mt Pocono all excited one Feast (late 70's tho I forget the exact year) when GTA sang the Kansas song "Carry On Wayward Son" at a teen event there.
Pretty calm year for music... maybe heard Cum On Feel The Noize or Thriller, either way if it wasn’t a show tune or big band it probably was too much for him to handle.
ReplyDelete