Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
▼
Wednesday, November 7, 2018
HWA: Words from my mouth are directly from God! Do you tremble before them?
PGR 6/26/78
And to think we swallowed this crap, hook line and sinker!
HWA was right. The WCG church members are in mortal danger. Vicious false prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack are eating them alive and then pooping them out in the dust.
2.54 PM I've red religious books by protestants. Their theology is different to Herbs, but their moral teachings are not. All the abusive cult tactics one finds in protestant churches, are also found in the COGs. It was obvious by comments made in services, that our ministers were reading protestant books. Listening to Kenneth Copeland or Joyce Meyer will confirm this. So in practice, HWA only used the bible as a reference book. He did not conform to the 'live by every word of God' instruction.
While Herb was Globetrotting on his Herbert Armstrong Traveling Autobiography Lecture, Garner Ted Armstrong was in charge. Supposedly without HWA's knowledge, the College had gone liberal, immorality had crept into the college and church, the Systematic Theology Project watered down core doctrines of the church and was threatening key dogmas, intercollegiate basketball and a "spirit of competition" had also invaded the Church, and other liberalized tendencies. GTA was on the TV show Hee Haw with Buck Owens, who also was performing at some Feast sites. So to answer your question - it was both.
When HWA was overseas, he claimed that everything went haywire behind his back - that there was a massive conspiracy to keep things from him, with ministers being threatened to stay away from HWA and if they talked to him about things they would be fired. When HWA came back and "realized" the enormous nature of the problems, he acted as if he was the savior of the church, cleaning house and straightening it all out.
The "off track", then, was everything - brethren and ministry - going off and doing their own thing.
This type of God complex rubbed off on many who came out of AC. I had a minister years ago in writing that said to me: Just so you understand how important this issue is before you, my words to you, are the same as Gods 10 commandments to him.
“Well, how can you repent of something if you are not sure you did it?”
Answer: Make a reparation offering:
Lev 5:17 And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity. Lev 5:18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
The Seventh-Day Adventist Roy Gane explains:
“The sin is inadvertent violation of any of the Lord’s prohibitive commands (doing a “Thou shall not”) without knowing it and continuing to not know about it. Whereas in chapter 4 a purification offering is required when the offender finds out what he is she has done wrong (4:13-14, 22-23, 27-28), in 5:17-19 a reparation offering is required even though the sin remains undisclosed to the sinner.
“The stative verb ’sm (“experience liability,” v.17) indicates that the unknowing individual has a kind of negative experience (suffering, pain, etc) involving cognitive dissonance (pangs of conscience) associated with consequences of sin, suggesting that all is not well with the divine-human relationship. Beyond this vague prompting, the sinner is clueless. So how does the sinner know that the wrong is sacrilege, which requires the reparation offering. He doesn’t. Neither does he know that it is not sacrilege, which is the worst-case scenario. So to cover any contingency, he offers the sacrifice that would cover the worst possibility: the reparation offering. However, without knowing for sure that sacrilege is involved, it is impossible to make prior reparation, so this requirement is waived” (Leviticus, NIVAC, pp.133-34).
7:19PM, that "God complex" is still around. In LCG, minister Mike DeSimone lost a lot of people's respect when he started telling members that a word from Rod Meredith was just as good as if it had come from the Bible. Such idolatry probably helped Mike advance in LCG, but we know how much God hates it.
In services, a minister once quoted a scripture, and in his tone of voice contradicted what it meant. After services I had members parroting the ministers 'interpretation.' In other words, many members believed the minister over the bible. Even when the bible truth was obvious. So ministers exalt themselves over Gods word, and members tag along. Plain Minister worship.
"But I'm awake and going to have the guts". This coming from man that didn't have the guts to talk about God in front of world leaders other than, "A strong hand from someplace" crap.
So exactly what were the big issues back then that got the Church off track? Was it the brethren or the ministry that were off track?
November 7, 2018 at 2:16 PM SHT said...
2:16 -
While Herb was Globetrotting on his Herbert Armstrong Traveling Autobiography Lecture, Garner Ted Armstrong was in charge. Supposedly without HWA's knowledge, the College had gone liberal, immorality had crept into the college and church, the Systematic Theology Project watered down core doctrines of the church and was threatening key dogmas, intercollegiate basketball and a "spirit of competition" had also invaded the Church, and other liberalized tendencies. GTA was on the TV show Hee Haw with Buck Owens, who also was performing at some Feast sites. So to answer your question - it was both.
When HWA was overseas, he claimed that everything went haywire behind his back - that there was a massive conspiracy to keep things from him, with ministers being threatened to stay away from HWA and if they talked to him about things they would be fired. When HWA came back and "realized" the enormous nature of the problems, he acted as if he was the savior of the church, cleaning house and straightening it all out.
The "off track", then, was everything - brethren and ministry - going off and doing their own thing.
November 7, 2018 at 4:20 PM
SHT is describing Act 2 of the story.
Act 1 was when 1) HWA became mesmerized by this concept of taking God's message to the world leaders shortly after his wife's death (1967/68) 2)In 1974, he changed two basic God-inspired doctrines (Monday Pentecost and Divorce and Remarriage) to cater to the liberals' demands. In April 1973, in a Bible study, he warned the church that if he were to change D&R, God will spue the church out of His mouth. Ironically this prophecy by HWA came true!
WCG began to go downhill since then and changed to Grace Communion International, a truly falling away from the truth.
Mr Raymond Cole,one of the pioneer Evangelists, the one closest to HWA and knew him since the early days of the church as a child/teen was convinced that HWA was the end-time servant of God and that WCG (then Radio Church of God) was God's church. He maintained that since God does not change, His given truth also does not change. Either WCG was the true church or it was not. He disagreed with HWA's 1974 changes and was forced out. He started Church of God, the Eternal. This church still exists with the original faith once delivered.
A true servant of God can fail. Truth is truth. It cannot fail.
"And to think we swallowed this crap, hook line and sinker!"
Well, we were up against a lot of trickery. The bible is fake and so is the evidence for it. So is prophecy and a lot of history and news and scholarship. The sad thing is that some have not learned their lesson and think that once they are back in the mainstream they are safe again. Some people never learn.
So exactly what were the big issues back then that got the Church off track? Was it the brethren or the ministry that were off track?
ReplyDeleteSatan already won when worldwierd went protestant.
ReplyDeleteHerbie caused the church to fail by picking Tkach.
ReplyDeleteHWA was right. The WCG church members are in mortal danger. Vicious false prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack are eating them alive and then pooping them out in the dust.
2.54 PM
ReplyDeleteI've red religious books by protestants. Their theology is different to Herbs, but their moral teachings are not. All the abusive cult tactics one finds in protestant churches, are also found in the COGs. It was obvious by comments made in services, that our ministers were reading protestant books.
Listening to Kenneth Copeland or Joyce Meyer will confirm this.
So in practice, HWA only used the bible as a reference book. He did not conform to the 'live by every word of God' instruction.
6/26/78 was a few days after GTA was expelled for the last time.
ReplyDelete2:16 -
ReplyDeleteWhile Herb was Globetrotting on his Herbert Armstrong Traveling Autobiography Lecture, Garner Ted Armstrong was in charge. Supposedly without HWA's knowledge, the College had gone liberal, immorality had crept into the college and church, the Systematic Theology Project watered down core doctrines of the church and was threatening key dogmas, intercollegiate basketball and a "spirit of competition" had also invaded the Church, and other liberalized tendencies. GTA was on the TV show Hee Haw with Buck Owens, who also was performing at some Feast sites. So to answer your question - it was both.
When HWA was overseas, he claimed that everything went haywire behind his back - that there was a massive conspiracy to keep things from him, with ministers being threatened to stay away from HWA and if they talked to him about things they would be fired. When HWA came back and "realized" the enormous nature of the problems, he acted as if he was the savior of the church, cleaning house and straightening it all out.
The "off track", then, was everything - brethren and ministry - going off and doing their own thing.
That line has been used ever since the first shaman and witch doctor started their con game.
ReplyDeleteHe does not admit to slumbering, but he repented if he did.
ReplyDeleteWell, how can you repent of something if you are not sure you did it?
Weasel words.
Why Herbie! How blasphemous!
ReplyDeleteThis type of God complex rubbed off on many who came out of AC. I had a minister years ago in writing that said to me: Just so you understand how important this issue is before you, my words to you, are the same as Gods 10 commandments to him.
ReplyDeleteTalk about ballsy huh.
"Herbie caused the church to fail by picking Tkach."
ReplyDeleteHis advisors probably told him to pick Tkach because he was surrounded by closet liberals that wanted to radically alter the church.
8.08 PM
ReplyDeletePerhaps Herbie chose Tkach because he was a man after his own heart, i.e., both were morally challenged.
Anonymous asks:
ReplyDelete“Well, how can you repent of something if you are not sure you did it?”
Answer: Make a reparation offering:
Lev 5:17 And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
Lev 5:18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
The Seventh-Day Adventist Roy Gane explains:
“The sin is inadvertent violation of any of the Lord’s prohibitive commands (doing a “Thou shall not”) without knowing it and continuing to not know about it. Whereas in chapter 4 a purification offering is required when the offender finds out what he is she has done wrong (4:13-14, 22-23, 27-28), in 5:17-19 a reparation offering is required even though the sin remains undisclosed to the sinner.
“The stative verb ’sm (“experience liability,” v.17) indicates that the unknowing individual has a kind of negative experience (suffering, pain, etc) involving cognitive dissonance (pangs of conscience) associated with consequences of sin, suggesting that all is not well with the divine-human relationship. Beyond this vague prompting, the sinner is clueless. So how does the sinner know that the wrong is sacrilege, which requires the reparation offering. He doesn’t. Neither does he know that it is not sacrilege, which is the worst-case scenario. So to cover any contingency, he offers the sacrifice that would cover the worst possibility: the reparation offering. However, without knowing for sure that sacrilege is involved, it is impossible to make prior reparation, so this requirement is waived” (Leviticus, NIVAC, pp.133-34).
7:19PM, that "God complex" is still around. In LCG, minister Mike DeSimone lost a lot of people's respect when he started telling members that a word from Rod Meredith was just as good as if it had come from the Bible. Such idolatry probably helped Mike advance in LCG, but we know how much God hates it.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know where Tkach came from, his background? Long -time member?
ReplyDeleteIn services, a minister once quoted a scripture, and in his tone of voice contradicted what it meant. After services I had members parroting the ministers 'interpretation.'
ReplyDeleteIn other words, many members believed the minister over the bible. Even when the bible truth was obvious.
So ministers exalt themselves over Gods word, and members tag along. Plain Minister worship.
I think Tkach came from Chicago and Dean Blackwell ordained him - possibly in the 50's.
ReplyDelete"But I'm awake and going to have the guts".
ReplyDeleteThis coming from man that didn't have the guts to talk about God in front of world leaders other than, "A strong hand from someplace" crap.
Dumbhead said...
ReplyDeleteSo exactly what were the big issues back then that got the Church off track? Was it the brethren or the ministry that were off track?
November 7, 2018 at 2:16 PM
SHT said...
2:16 -
While Herb was Globetrotting on his Herbert Armstrong Traveling Autobiography Lecture, Garner Ted Armstrong was in charge. Supposedly without HWA's knowledge, the College had gone liberal, immorality had crept into the college and church, the Systematic Theology Project watered down core doctrines of the church and was threatening key dogmas, intercollegiate basketball and a "spirit of competition" had also invaded the Church, and other liberalized tendencies. GTA was on the TV show Hee Haw with Buck Owens, who also was performing at some Feast sites. So to answer your question - it was both.
When HWA was overseas, he claimed that everything went haywire behind his back - that there was a massive conspiracy to keep things from him, with ministers being threatened to stay away from HWA and if they talked to him about things they would be fired. When HWA came back and "realized" the enormous nature of the problems, he acted as if he was the savior of the church, cleaning house and straightening it all out.
The "off track", then, was everything - brethren and ministry - going off and doing their own thing.
November 7, 2018 at 4:20 PM
SHT is describing Act 2 of the story.
Act 1 was when 1) HWA became mesmerized by this concept of taking God's message to the world leaders shortly after his wife's death (1967/68)
2)In 1974, he changed two basic God-inspired doctrines (Monday Pentecost and Divorce and Remarriage) to cater to the liberals' demands. In April 1973, in a Bible study, he warned the church that if he were to change D&R, God will spue the church out of His mouth. Ironically this prophecy by HWA came true!
WCG began to go downhill since then and changed to Grace Communion International, a truly falling away from the truth.
Mr Raymond Cole,one of the pioneer Evangelists, the one closest to HWA and knew him since the early days of the church as a child/teen was convinced that HWA was the end-time servant of God and that WCG (then Radio Church of God) was God's church. He maintained that since God does not change, His given truth also does not change. Either WCG was the true church or it was not. He disagreed with HWA's 1974 changes and was forced out. He started Church of God, the Eternal. This church still exists with the original faith once delivered.
A true servant of God can fail. Truth is truth. It cannot fail.
"And to think we swallowed this crap, hook line and sinker!"
ReplyDeleteWell, we were up against a lot of trickery. The bible is fake and so is the evidence for it. So is prophecy and a lot of history and news and scholarship. The sad thing is that some have not learned their lesson and think that once they are back in the mainstream they are safe again. Some people never learn.