Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
If those regular posters here were to follow the advise of these videos, they would let go of their victimhood and hatred for human religious leaders who were blinded by their egos and non Christ like attitudes.
The record in scripture throughout the thousands of years is continual failure to understand, obey and connect to the Creator. As Jesus said at the last super, the world would reject His disciples and Christ's message. Nothing has changed and the prophesies for the future show the two witnesses being murdered and the world rejoicing while seeing it on their IPhones.
I am grateful to have been taught about the Sabbath, Holy Days and plan of God for the Hope for most humans to make it. Only when God's Spirit fills the Earth and Christ's examples are taught in every school and home will peace be on this suffering Earth.
7.13 AM Nope. The human religious leaders were not blinded, They knew perfectly well what they were doing. God holds responsible for their criminal behaviors. Back to the moral drawing board for you.
These videos are just another type of indoctrination. Fine to let things go when you are young and have your whole life ahead of you, definitely you should. BUT I see no old people in the video, the bit I watched (sorry couldn't get past the first few minutes), were all young and good looking (in a hippy way).
Now when you are old and wondering how many new years you will see, if you let it all go and forget the past your family will probably think you have alzheimers and lock you up somewhere. Beware.
I can agree with some of what you said. I do think you are underestimating the psychological damage that was done to people. To color every person's experience with simply not moving past being a victim is naive.Some people were exposed to the church from the cradle had no choice in that regard. Some other people need psychological help to get their lives back together (everything is not just spiritual). I think the only person's that speak like that are those who are unfamiliar with cult dynamics and it's psychological impact on the human psyche. I know a young person that left a Cog and she told me she was having severe panic attacks, would just talking about the love of Jesus or Gods laws help a person like that. You dont preach righteousness to people suffering psychological trauma,you would only become a miserable comforter, just like Job's friends. Its easy to sit on our high horse and preach away,I would have probably be doing the samething if I didn't experience and witness what I did. I unfortunately found that non-religious people were generally more sympathetic and understanding than religious people when I tried to discuss my experience in COGdom( many religious people were too busy trying to preach lol). Non-religious people did less talking and more listening it seemed religious(Christians generally) people had to always think they had an answer to your problems or judged you in someway(you need to get back in a church now). Note I have nothing against religious people or Christians and I am not an atheist(no offence to atheist either).
We are our memories. It's who we are. I can think of a few science fiction movies and TV episodes that ignored or made light of this. The movie 'Star Trek V: The Final Frontier' made mention of this by means of a Vulcan with the ability to cleanse people of their emotional 'pain.' At least the character captain Kirk (the movie writers) partially understood the importance of the past, when he refused the offer to have his pain removed, replying that its his pain that makes him strong. These videos are only part correct.
It struck me to post something with a bit of a larger view of properly dealing with the WCG experience lest one destroy only themselves and the one life they have to actually live well. It was motivated by a couple of emails that, while over the top, did show just how embedded the bitterness of an experience can get and serve absolutely no good purpose save to destroy one's life.
They were as follows and forgive the language.
"Dennis, I want to know why that Fucking Cunt that runs "banned" will not allow my goddamn comment to go through? My comment under "anonymous" said that I believe in a god but I hate him! I want my comment to be allowed so I can piss those goddamn Armstrong fuckers off! I thought the Banned blog was for the purpose of shitting on those Armstrong cults! I'm not going to forgive the Armstrong cults! I WILL go to my goddamn grave hating them! In the name of Jesus Fucking Christ, (Name withheld) ��"
" I want to know why you are such a Fucking Cunt that you don't put my comment on that goddamn banned page? I said I hate your Fucking God & I hate Jesus Christ! I want to Fucking piss those Herbert Armstrong Lovers off !!!!!"
While the people one hates are out to dinner not thinking of you or me, this can't be the way to go. Poisoning oneself does not teach anyone else a lesson as far as I can tell.
While I have lived long enough to know that sometimes one can write and drink at the same time, I felt it might help to remind ourselves, myself included, that we are not our story. We have a story, but that is not who we are and when a story doesn't serve us anymore, it might be good to find a positive way to move on lest what eats us eats us....
It struck me to post something with a bit of a larger view of properly dealing with the WCG experience lest one destroy only themselves and the one life they have to actually live well. It was motivated by a couple of emails that, while over the top, did show just how embedded the bitterness of an experience can get and serve absolutely no good purpose save to destroy one's life.
They were as follows and forgive the language.
?Dennis, I want to know why that Fucking Cunt that runs "banned" will not allow my goddamn comment to go through? My comment under "anonymous" said that I believe in a god but I hate him! I want my comment to be allowed so I can piss those goddamn Armstrong fuckers off! I thought the Banned blog was for the purpose of shitting on those Armstrong cults! I'm not going to forgive the Armstrong cults! I WILL go to my goddamn grave hating them! In the name of Jesus Fucking Christ, (Name withheld) ��"
" I want to know why you are such a Fucking Cunt that you don't put my comment on that goddamn banned page? I said I hate your Fucking God & I hate Jesus Christ! I want to Fucking piss those Herbert Armstrong Lovers off !!!!!"
While I have lived long enough to know that sometimes one can write and drink at the same time, I felt it might help to remind ourselves, myself included, that we are not our story. We have a story, but that is not who we are and when a story doesn't serve us anymore, it might be good to find a positive way to move on lest what eats us eats us....
This posting is already three behind in just a day so it will pass soon enough for comments
Wow. Now that is what I would call true bitterness. I am sure he or she may have been hurt by their experience(but they are hurting themselves more) but Dennis this also shows you are indeed a gentleman(for not condoning that behavior) despite what you went through and what people try to say. I see you are really trying to move on and put the past behind as much as you can. Maybe this site can focus more time on articles and information aimed at helping others heal and deal with the pain, the scars of their bad religious experiences(at least those who really want to heal). I tried moving on by going from one Cog to a next but it didnt work i was too traumatized by my Experience in a Cog to the point of Deep Depression so i know it isnt easy. I never experienced nothing like this feeling I didn't even know such psychological pain could exist, leaving my COG after being there for many years felt like.....
"They wages of sin is death." This means permanent damage if the sin is great. Dennis by contrast talks of 'moving on' as if all that exists is trivial offenses. As far as I'm concerned, this is Dennis whitewashing his minister pals and profession. How about detailing and affirming the crimes of the ministers, rather than lecturing the victims?
Anonymous said... "They wages of sin is death." This means permanent damage if the sin is great. Dennis by contrast talks of 'moving on' as if all that exists is trivial offenses. As far as I'm concerned, this is Dennis whitewashing his minister pals and profession. How about detailing and affirming the crimes of the ministers, rather than lecturing the victims?
As far as I'm concerned about as far as your concerned you the crimes of ministers and members alike is well affirmed and that I am not lecturing the victims. The concept of moving on in any way that gives a more positive view of ones experiences is obviously not for you. That's ok. But giving someone who might otherwise fall into the abyss of depression and anxiety or even suicide, and who just might find a little courage to move on just enough to have a life no matter what the experience was is a good thing. Some other shallow thinker thinks it's "just more indoctrination" which is also a lame perspective and obviously not for them either, which is fine.
And don't lecture me about my motives, which you have no clue about, or whether you think I have any minister pals or a profession that I care about whitewashing. I have no minister pals. I have few former member friends left. Very few and as for the profession, I regret ever having taken that path in the naivete' of my youth. I don't belong to the good ol' minister club. If I did, I would have agreed to take churches offered to me or organizations to jump and skip to and keep it all going. But in my world, once was enough. Instead for the last 21 years I have picked another caring profession that works for me and earn every damn dollar coming to me for it all. At near 70 I work 5 days a week, 8 hours a day and see up to sometimes 30 clients a week who really love what I do for them. I thank myself, not any god, that I have not spent the last 21 years playing church or undertrained minister in the Wildworld Churches of God.
However, I can't unring the bell but having thought of ending my own life back in the day when depression and anxiety was considered a weakness and when I went for some positive help was told by the church "we think you are just hiding here" (here being in mental health counseling outside the church), I think I can speak up for rising a bit above that perverse mentality.
Wallow all you want. While damage can indeed be great, the degree of permanence can often be up to the person who has to deal with it. I guess your wages of sin is permanent but to me that's just more negative Bible blather that doesn't help anyone in the real world.
Since we cannot change the past, we should not be prisoners of the past either. A number of people suffered severely in WCG - especially those brought up as children with harsh parents. We were all deceived into thinking we had the Truth, and ignoring everything that disagreed with it.
When most of us hear or read angry, over the wall comments such as were excerpted from the emails Dennis received, even in spite of our own Armstrong experiences, those comments seem insane. The cunt tirade in particular made me wonder for the first time in decades if demon possession could actually be real.
Anger is often a good first emotion, but it's only of value if it can spawn a positive solution to whatever caused the anger. It's piss-poor as a final destination, so toxic and negative, and capable of contaminating one's entire life, actions, character, and relationships. It often gives birth to violence and destructiveness. The Bible actually warns about anger in numerous places.
Several years ago, there was a dissident blog in which some angry people who wanted to demonstrate their level of commitment took turns blaspheming the Holy Spirit. It's difficult to even imagine anger at such a level.
Dennis It's universal in all cultures to condemn murder, theft, lying, etc because of their destructiveness. So the 'wages of sin is death' is not mere bible blather, but a axiomatic truth. Neither is there choice in the degree of permanence of the damage done, as you claim. If a person loses a arm in a accident, there is no choice in the degree of damage. You are a member of a highly studied species, so I do not accept your claim of me having no clue what your motives are. To me, the only legitimate point that can be made is to not retire from life if you have been the victim of great evil/s. Do your best with your remaining time. 'Be strong, brave, courageous' (bible blather for the believers).
Anon, January 3, 2019 at 5:47 PM, said: "...They wages of sin is death." This means permanent damage if the sin is great. Dennis by contrast talks of 'moving on' as if all that exists is trivial offenses..."
How do you measure sin? Isn't sin sin? What sin, or types of sin, become so great as to mean permanent damage?
The Cat church has various amounts of sins: venial, mortal,...etc.
Sin is in each of our lives; we all will die once, b/c it has been appointed:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Heb 9:27
Wages will be paid, but what sin is so great that creates permanent damage? What permanent damage do you have in mind?
We are also told: "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;..." 2 Cor 5:19
If those words are true, then what sin is so great to cause "permanent damage?"
Like the words of Romans 6:23, 2 Cor 5:19 is not bible blather either.
Dennis is not, in my opinion, talking "...of 'moving on' as if all that exists is trivial..."
Sin is sin. There is no big sin and no small sin; sin is sin. Even the phrase "the unpardonable sin" cannot be found in the Bible.
Obviously, there are many different sins in existence and those sins will cause lots of pain and suffering to one degree or another for self and others, depending on the type of sin involved, but sin is sin and the wages are the same: death.
God intends to save all humanity and take/destroy Satan and his angels, but since most do not believe that, well, time will tell...
John So there is no big sin or small sin. Sin is just sin. You seem to be restating Dennis's position. Tha's no different than saying that there is no big crime or small crime. Crime is crime. Hence there should be no difference in jail sentences and/or fines This is so ridiculous.
Sometimes a persons moral assertions are a confession of their level of/lack of character.
I partially grew up in a cult, Armstrongism. In 1975, I realized that it and its teachings were bogus, and left. I did not worry about my friends remaining in the church turning their backs on me, because I was proactive, and turned my back on them when I left. Thus ended my Armstrong story. Clean break. If I ever say anything to anyone about that era, (except here) I usually just say that I grew up as a Messianic Jew and let it go at that.
Christ criticized the Pharisees for tithing on herbs, but ignoring the weightier matters of the law such as justice and mercy. Hence, some sins are more serious than others. The claim that all sins are equal isn't right.
Sins are proportional to the damage they do. They’re not all equal just because they bring the penalty of death. Which was worse? Hitler, or breaking the sabbath?
If those regular posters here were to follow the advise of these videos, they would let go of their victimhood and hatred for human religious leaders who were blinded by their egos and non Christ like attitudes.
ReplyDeleteThe record in scripture throughout the thousands of years is continual failure to understand, obey and connect to the Creator. As Jesus said at the last super, the world would reject His disciples and Christ's message. Nothing has changed and the prophesies for the future show the two witnesses being murdered and the world rejoicing while seeing it on their IPhones.
I am grateful to have been taught about the Sabbath, Holy Days and plan of God for the Hope for most humans to make it. Only when God's Spirit fills the Earth and Christ's examples are taught in every school and home will peace be on this suffering Earth.
7.13 AM
ReplyDeleteNope. The human religious leaders were not blinded, They knew perfectly well what they were doing. God holds responsible for their criminal behaviors. Back to the moral drawing board for you.
These videos are just another type of indoctrination. Fine to let things go when you are young and have your whole life ahead of you, definitely you should. BUT I see no old people in the video, the bit I watched (sorry couldn't get past the first few minutes), were all young and good looking (in a hippy way).
ReplyDeleteNow when you are old and wondering how many new years you will see, if you let it all go and forget the past your family will probably think you have alzheimers and lock you up somewhere. Beware.
I can agree with some of what you said. I do think you are underestimating the psychological damage that was done to people. To color every person's experience with simply not moving past being a victim is naive.Some people were exposed to the church from the cradle had no choice in that regard. Some other people need psychological help to get their lives back together (everything is not just spiritual). I think the only person's that speak like that are those who are unfamiliar with cult dynamics and it's psychological impact on the human psyche. I know a young person that left a Cog and she told me she was having severe panic attacks, would just talking about the love of Jesus or Gods laws help a person like that. You dont preach righteousness to people suffering psychological trauma,you would only become a miserable comforter, just like Job's friends. Its easy to sit on our high horse and preach away,I would have probably be doing the samething if I didn't experience and witness what I did. I unfortunately found that non-religious people were generally more sympathetic and understanding than religious people when I tried to discuss my experience in COGdom( many religious people were too busy trying to preach lol). Non-religious people did less talking and more listening it seemed religious(Christians generally) people had to always think they had an answer to your problems or judged you in someway(you need to get back in a church now). Note I have nothing against religious people or Christians and I am not an atheist(no offence to atheist either).
ReplyDeleteWe are our memories. It's who we are. I can think of a few science fiction movies and TV episodes that ignored or made light of this. The movie 'Star Trek V: The Final Frontier' made mention of this by means of a Vulcan with the ability to cleanse people of their emotional 'pain.' At least the character captain Kirk (the movie writers) partially understood the importance of the past, when he refused the offer to have his pain removed, replying that its his pain that makes him strong.
ReplyDeleteThese videos are only part correct.
It struck me to post something with a bit of a larger view of properly dealing with the WCG experience lest one destroy only themselves and the one life they have to actually live well. It was motivated by a couple of emails that, while over the top, did show just how embedded the bitterness of an experience can get and serve absolutely no good purpose save to destroy one's life.
ReplyDeleteThey were as follows and forgive the language.
"Dennis, I want to know why that Fucking Cunt that runs "banned" will not allow my goddamn comment to go through? My comment under "anonymous" said that I believe in a god but I hate him! I want my comment to be allowed so I can piss those goddamn Armstrong fuckers off! I thought the Banned blog was for the purpose of shitting on those Armstrong cults! I'm not going to forgive the Armstrong cults! I WILL go to my goddamn grave hating them! In the name of Jesus Fucking Christ, (Name withheld) ��"
" I want to know why you are such a Fucking Cunt that you don't put my comment on that goddamn banned page? I said I hate your Fucking God & I hate Jesus Christ! I want to Fucking piss those Herbert Armstrong Lovers off !!!!!"
While the people one hates are out to dinner not thinking of you or me, this can't be the way to go. Poisoning oneself does not teach anyone else a lesson as far as I can tell.
While I have lived long enough to know that sometimes one can write and drink at the same time, I felt it might help to remind ourselves, myself included, that we are not our story. We have a story, but that is not who we are and when a story doesn't serve us anymore, it might be good to find a positive way to move on lest what eats us eats us....
It struck me to post something with a bit of a larger view of properly dealing with the WCG experience lest one destroy only themselves and the one life they have to actually live well. It was motivated by a couple of emails that, while over the top, did show just how embedded the bitterness of an experience can get and serve absolutely no good purpose save to destroy one's life.
ReplyDeleteThey were as follows and forgive the language.
?Dennis, I want to know why that Fucking Cunt that runs "banned" will not allow my goddamn comment to go through? My comment under "anonymous" said that I believe in a god but I hate him! I want my comment to be allowed so I can piss those goddamn Armstrong fuckers off! I thought the Banned blog was for the purpose of shitting on those Armstrong cults! I'm not going to forgive the Armstrong cults! I WILL go to my goddamn grave hating them! In the name of Jesus Fucking Christ, (Name withheld) ��"
" I want to know why you are such a Fucking Cunt that you don't put my comment on that goddamn banned page? I said I hate your Fucking God & I hate Jesus Christ! I want to Fucking piss those Herbert Armstrong Lovers off !!!!!"
While I have lived long enough to know that sometimes one can write and drink at the same time, I felt it might help to remind ourselves, myself included, that we are not our story. We have a story, but that is not who we are and when a story doesn't serve us anymore, it might be good to find a positive way to move on lest what eats us eats us....
This posting is already three behind in just a day so it will pass soon enough for comments
Wow. Now that is what I would call true bitterness. I am sure he or she may have been hurt by their experience(but they are hurting themselves more) but Dennis this also shows you are indeed a gentleman(for not condoning that behavior) despite what you went through and what people try to say. I see you are really trying to move on and put the past behind as much as you can. Maybe this site can focus more time on articles and information aimed at helping others heal and deal with the pain, the scars of their bad religious experiences(at least those who really want to heal). I tried moving on by going from one Cog to a next but it didnt work i was too traumatized by my Experience in a Cog to the point of Deep Depression so i know it isnt easy. I never experienced nothing like this feeling I didn't even know such psychological pain could exist, leaving my COG after being there for many years felt like.....
Delete"They wages of sin is death." This means permanent damage if the sin is great. Dennis by contrast talks of 'moving on' as if all that exists is trivial offenses.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I'm concerned, this is Dennis whitewashing his minister pals and profession.
How about detailing and affirming the crimes of the ministers, rather than lecturing the victims?
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"They wages of sin is death." This means permanent damage if the sin is great. Dennis by contrast talks of 'moving on' as if all that exists is trivial offenses.
As far as I'm concerned, this is Dennis whitewashing his minister pals and profession.
How about detailing and affirming the crimes of the ministers, rather than lecturing the victims?
As far as I'm concerned about as far as your concerned you the crimes of ministers and members alike is well affirmed and that I am not lecturing the victims. The concept of moving on in any way that gives a more positive view of ones experiences is obviously not for you. That's ok. But giving someone who might otherwise fall into the abyss of depression and anxiety or even suicide, and who just might find a little courage to move on just enough to have a life no matter what the experience was is a good thing. Some other shallow thinker thinks it's "just more indoctrination" which is also a lame perspective and obviously not for them either, which is fine.
And don't lecture me about my motives, which you have no clue about, or whether you think I have any minister pals or a profession that I care about whitewashing. I have no minister pals. I have few former member friends left. Very few and as for the profession, I regret ever having taken that path in the naivete' of my youth. I don't belong to the good ol' minister club. If I did, I would have agreed to take churches offered to me or organizations to jump and skip to and keep it all going. But in my world, once was enough. Instead for the last 21 years I have picked another caring profession that works for me and earn every damn dollar coming to me for it all. At near 70 I work 5 days a week, 8 hours a day and see up to sometimes 30 clients a week who really love what I do for them. I thank myself, not any god, that I have not spent the last 21 years playing church or undertrained minister in the Wildworld Churches of God.
However, I can't unring the bell but having thought of ending my own life back in the day when depression and anxiety was considered a weakness and when I went for some positive help was told by the church "we think you are just hiding here" (here being in mental health counseling outside the church), I think I can speak up for rising a bit above that perverse mentality.
Wallow all you want. While damage can indeed be great, the degree of permanence can often be up to the person who has to deal with it. I guess your wages of sin is permanent but to me that's just more negative Bible blather that doesn't help anyone in the real world.
Since we cannot change the past, we should not be prisoners of the past either.
ReplyDeleteA number of people suffered severely in WCG - especially those brought up as children with harsh parents.
We were all deceived into thinking we had the Truth, and ignoring everything that disagreed with it.
When most of us hear or read angry, over the wall comments such as were excerpted from the emails Dennis received, even in spite of our own Armstrong experiences, those comments seem insane. The cunt tirade in particular made me wonder for the first time in decades if demon possession could actually be real.
ReplyDeleteAnger is often a good first emotion, but it's only of value if it can spawn a positive solution to whatever caused the anger. It's piss-poor as a final destination, so toxic and negative, and capable of contaminating one's entire life, actions, character, and relationships. It often gives birth to violence and destructiveness. The Bible actually warns about anger in numerous places.
Several years ago, there was a dissident blog in which some angry people who wanted to demonstrate their level of commitment took turns blaspheming the Holy Spirit. It's difficult to even imagine anger at such a level.
BB
Dennis
ReplyDeleteIt's universal in all cultures to condemn murder, theft, lying, etc because of their destructiveness. So the 'wages of sin is death' is not mere bible blather, but a axiomatic truth. Neither is there choice in the degree of permanence of the damage done, as you claim. If a person loses a arm in a accident, there is no choice in the degree of damage.
You are a member of a highly studied species, so I do not accept your claim of me having no clue what your motives are.
To me, the only legitimate point that can be made is to not retire from life if you have been the victim of great evil/s. Do your best with your remaining time. 'Be strong, brave, courageous' (bible blather for the believers).
Anon, January 3, 2019 at 5:47 PM, said: "...They wages of sin is death." This means permanent damage if the sin is great. Dennis by contrast talks of 'moving on' as if all that exists is trivial offenses..."
ReplyDeleteHow do you measure sin? Isn't sin sin? What sin, or types of sin, become so great as to mean permanent damage?
The Cat church has various amounts of sins: venial, mortal,...etc.
Sin is in each of our lives; we all will die once, b/c it has been appointed:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Heb 9:27
Wages will be paid, but what sin is so great that creates permanent damage? What permanent damage do you have in mind?
We are also told: "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;..." 2 Cor 5:19
If those words are true, then what sin is so great to cause "permanent damage?"
Like the words of Romans 6:23, 2 Cor 5:19 is not bible blather either.
Dennis is not, in my opinion, talking "...of 'moving on' as if all that exists is trivial..."
Sin is sin. There is no big sin and no small sin; sin is sin. Even the phrase "the unpardonable sin" cannot be found in the Bible.
Obviously, there are many different sins in existence and those sins will cause lots of pain and suffering to one degree or another for self and others, depending on the type of sin involved, but sin is sin and the wages are the same: death.
God intends to save all humanity and take/destroy Satan and his angels, but since most do not believe that, well, time will tell...
John
John
ReplyDeleteSo there is no big sin or small sin. Sin is just sin. You seem to be restating Dennis's position. Tha's no different than saying that there is no big crime or small crime. Crime is crime. Hence there should be no difference in jail sentences and/or fines
This is so ridiculous.
Sometimes a persons moral assertions are a confession of their level of/lack of character.
I partially grew up in a cult, Armstrongism. In 1975, I realized that it and its teachings were bogus, and left. I did not worry about my friends remaining in the church turning their backs on me, because I was proactive, and turned my back on them when I left. Thus ended my Armstrong story. Clean break. If I ever say anything to anyone about that era, (except here) I usually just say that I grew up as a Messianic Jew and let it go at that.
ReplyDeleteBB
Christ criticized the Pharisees for tithing on herbs, but ignoring the weightier matters of the law such as justice and mercy. Hence, some sins are more serious than others. The claim that all sins are equal isn't right.
ReplyDeleteSins are proportional to the damage they do. They’re not all equal just because they bring the penalty of death. Which was worse? Hitler, or breaking the sabbath?
Delete