The strong hand from someplace
Church of God the Eternal has admitted one thing about Herbert Armstrong's trips to world leaders that I have never seen other COG's admit. This will sure frost the butts of certain self-appointed "men" who salivate at the mear mention of HWA's name.
From 1968 to the mid-1980s, did those national leaders receive a bone-chilling warning about the imminent return of Christ, with His new government soon to dethrone those current kings, presidents, and prime ministers? Did Mr. Armstrong speak to them the way Elijah spoke to King Ahab, and as John the Baptist spoke to King Herod? Was the entire world warned with mighty signs and miracles about their national sins and the need for repentance? Has there even yet been the kind of “witness” comparable to that which God prophesied will occur before the arrival of His Son? No such warning message was ever proclaimed by Mr. Armstrong to kings, and we have not even yet seen the fulfilment of that prophecy of a true warning Work. Instead, with Mr Armstrong’s visits to heads-of-state, diplomacy was the order of the day, including expensive gifts to dignitaries, and only a very veiled message about Jesus Christ—often without ever using His name! Is that really what we saw from Elijah and from John the Baptist? Is that truly the way we think God is going to make final preparation for Christ’s return?
So again, in evaluating Mr. Armstrong’s very strong and sincere belief in 1968 that God had tasked him with a brand new commission, what do the fruits actually show in hindsight? The nations were not warned as God promised He will do, and Jesus Christ did not return following the conclusion of years of those international state visits. According to Mr. Armstrong’s own standard of proof, this aspect of his work does not pass muster.
Besides warning the world before Christ’s imminent return, visiting heads-of-state was also expected to “open doors” to allow the Worldwide Church of God more access to preach the Gospel to these leaders’ peoples. But God had already opened doors for radio broadcasts and print publications in most of these areas, even without visiting their national leaders (like King Leopold of Belgium). But what about the bonds he forged with leaders in countries like Japan, especially? The hope was that this personal rapport with the Japanese Prime Minister and other officials would “open the door” for eventual church congregations in Japan. But that never happened! There were a whole lot of state banquets and formal meetings with dignitaries across Asia, but those contacts never produced congregations! The one country in that region where the church flourished was in the Philippines (a Catholic country), and that work had been accomplished beginning in the early 1960s, long before visiting world leaders became a goal."
And in every other country where the church had been previously shut out from operating (like most of the Buddhist nations), even after years of hob-knobbing with Buddhist dignitaries, the church mostly was still shut out from forming congregations there! So once again, what were the real fruits? The claim was made repeatedly that this activity would “open doors.” But the Gospel of Jesus Christ was never really preached there, and the church did not gain any significant foothold because of those meetings. No fruits!
The world travelling autograph, photo op tours that HWA paid big bucks to acquire and get were certainly ineffectual.
ReplyDeleteClose competitors were all the things related to AICF, like the concerts (which were held at a lost cost and were heavily subsidized by the Church) and the infamous "Human Potential/ Quest Magazine" fiasco.
All of these things have evaporated into the ether as useless and fruitless.
Is this post not the same as picking at a healing scab ?
ReplyDeleteWhat did Herbert really achieve with visiting those world leaders?
I dont know their all dead. It was a different time and a different world.
Yes Herbert abused tithe money to achieve the meetings.
What good is it raking over it?
What kind of fruits were people expecting? Did anyone really expect the world to be converted?
ReplyDeleteWhat are the fruits of Church of God the Eternal? Not what they plan to do, what they have already done?
ReplyDeleteThat farce was one of the beginnings of my disillusionment. He'd spend big bucks flying his vanity jet to some third world country and brag about hobnobbing with some third world despot. About the time GTA shut down our department and left me without a job, I was disillusioned enough that I'd probably have voted with my feet soon anyway.
ReplyDeleteWhat utter nonsense by tbe uneducated. Some of the distuctions hwa was awarded with are not for sale.
ReplyDeleteI spent many postings explaining who gave them and for what reasons. And still you come up with a crappy posting by somw splinter of whom non ever engaged with real people of consequence. I will resume my poatings on the handover of okinawa, the american king of thailand, the britiah king of jordan, the anerican 5 block embassy in tiny neoal, marcos investmwnts in new york, ambassador college on the swiss italian border next to the cia predecessor. etc etc etc You utter inconsequential ninkompoops.
Nck
The american emissaries thanking hwa for the Syria mari digs as they reflected well on the american people in a russian sphere of influence.
ReplyDeleteJapanese diplomacy and foreign investment in East Africa, Israel, South America, american covert support for the apartheid systen to keep South Africa in the Western Fold, worldwide sponsoring ig operating costs for cia radio stations programming western news and promoting western culture.
And I am not even starting.
You are so incredibly ignorant.
Nck
How could the church have ever expected fruit from these visits when Herbert was too embarrassed to talk about Jesus. “A strong hand from someplace” is a crock of steaming bullshit. All Herbert was ever concerned with was the publicity and the photo ops, it certainly was never witinissing about Christ. What witness was it to help build The Globe Theatre in London or the Reagan Library with tithe money? Even Prince Charles found him embarrassing.
ReplyDeleteTonto is right! The church dropped millions of dollars on AICF that never broke even. Performers were wined and dined with the finest of foods and Dom Perigon champagne. None of them and none of the public ever joined the church because of AICF. In fact, I saw them many times standing in the student center mocking the booklets on display. It was all about shedding the "cult" label and trying to look charitable and mainstream.
ReplyDeleteIf you include things like the makeup rulings or trying to "get the church 'back on track,'" then probably meeting with powerful dictators and thugs who he admired and wished he could be more like—well let's just say that besides being a con-artist, thankfully, at least everything else he did was ineffectual!
ReplyDelete"meeting with powerful dictators and thugs"
ReplyDeleteI don't get this idea that dictators are thugs. There were good kings and bad kings, there were good emperors and bad ones. The current crop of politicians are pretty much ALWAYS liars. In the fake democracy (run by the media and special interest groups, not the people) you HAVE to lie and cheat and manipulate and back-stab to get into power. A monarchy is much cleaner. You just inherit the throne. No corruption is needed.
well, at the the very least, when some come before the Great White Throne they wont be able to use the excuse: "but nobody ever told us! if you had only sent someone to warn us, Lord, we might have had a chance to repent of our evil ways"...
ReplyDeletec f ben yochanan
11.33AM,
ReplyDeleteI too would like to know the fruits of Church of God, the Eternal as they claim to be following the original faith once delivered. Dennis, Byker Bob, Tonto, Kevin, anyone?
11:33 ~ When members and ex-members of WCG reminisce about the ‘70s, and the so-called great rebellion/falling away, most cite the liberals as the crux of the problem. Original Evangelist Raymond C. Cole was a one man conservative backlash to this, a man who believed that in changing the original D&R doctrine and others, HWA had essentially left his own church. Mr. Cole, as a matter of conscience, left to start an organization supposedly preserving HWA’s original “truths” in Eugene, Oregon.
DeleteThat COGE would criticize HWA’s post-1974 activities comes as no surprise, because those activities validate Mr. Cole’s reason for leaving. He seemed to feel much the same about them as many of the rest of us do here.
I have no idea what the fruits of COGE might be. They might resemble those of the New York City church of 1960-67, which was Mr. Cole’s district. It just depends on how meticulous Jon, his successor, is about preserving that Raymond Cole “zeitgeist”.
BB
Nck, as a former member, I didn't care at all whether HWA received awards. They were completely beside the point of "the work". To me, the justification for the jet, the Steuben Crystal, the meetings and the photographs would have come in the form of HWA clearly preaching the gospel to these leaders, with their attention then going to Jesus Christ. I was astounded when during one of HWA's regular Friday night "dumb sheep" rants he stated that God had given him the wisdom to preach the gospel to these leaders in such a way that they would not realize that it had been preached. I am certain that Billy Graham would have shaken his head in dismay had he encountered such an abysmal lack of understanding and common sense. Dr. Graham never, ever, preached a subliminal gospel. He always made it front and center.
ReplyDeleteBB
BB
ReplyDeleteI understand!
HWA's gospel was not ABOUT Jesus Christ, nor the winning of new converts. It was different from B Graham and you expected the same.
Btw Most of hwa's speeches to the elites featured god or jesus in a most cringing way to the elites. Just listen to his speech to the greel elites or the egyptians. Toe cringing. Not avoiding at all.
Nck
Who had access to these speeches in real time, when they happened, nck? Also, what is greel? What are you saying? That the HWA who staggered through numerous repeats of the two trees sermon as a rare treat for the dumb sheep was actually still capable of being an engaging or commanding speaker when in the presence of dignitaries?
DeleteBB
I"m sorry BB. I meant Greek!
DeleteYou tube is plastered with HWA speaking to the world elites and in dark corners on the internet you even have Rader speaking to the Chinese, for those who were not there.
HWA was very engaging speaking about his early work and those that predicted the 1929 crisis from the chicago chamber of commerce but the Greek got annoyed when he talked about religion. Just days later they had to decide whether to join EEC or not and HWA had delivered a powerful message on how the USA would destroy the world if there was not to be cooperation.
Go figure. Its on you tube for those who were not there.
And I could go on and on and on......
Ever seen the American mission in Nepal.
A tiny insignificant nation, one of the poorest ever. A laughing stock for the regulars here branding hwas travel there a waste of tithe money.
To nck the size if the us mission there resembles its significance between CHINA and INDIAN subcontinent during the cold war.
Ponder that for a minute.
Ever been to an intelligence gathering listening station?
Keeping the world safe for democracy. And dangle a carrot USAID and a stick. (the unseen hand of trade sanctions)
Nck
HWA preached a homeopathic gospel. As for results, he could say that he was told to preach the Gospel, and that he is not responsible for the results. What results from the "preaching" is between the world leaders and God. Preaching the Gospel is proclaiming, not a sales pitch. How effective was Noah's preaching? How about Moses? Elijah? or and even Jesus.
ReplyDeleteI think you are on to something, 4:56! Perhaps HWA was also homeopathicsexual. That would explain how he could rationalize in his own mind continuing to preach his half a gospel after doing such horrible things to Dorothy!
ReplyDeleteBB
This post seems to be good PR for Church of God, The Eternal. I almost want to think that their Pastor Director had something to do with the material being brought up here on this blog. Maybe, maybe not. Why is it good PR you ask? Because they are currently in the process of putting a book together that will give "their take" on the Worldwide Church of God.
ReplyDeleteThe whole exercise is laughable because the material the book will be based on is all from the current Pastor Directors writings. This was detailed in one of their monthly letters. This man was a mere child in the organization in the '60s and spent one year at Ambassador College in the early '80s, yet has seen fit to completely rewrite the history of the WWCG including what he thinks about all of the ministers who came through its halls. Convenient for him, because it leaves the door wide open for him to give his own interpretation of old doctrines, and new ones he continues to introduce. Yes, new ones. He would be wise to take counsel from his deceased predecessor Mr. Raymond Coles standpoint of deciding to never write a "tell-all" book on the organization, and if anyone could have, it would have been him. Mr. Cole would roll over in his grave if he knew this was taking place.
Oh, I believe this book is intended for Amazon to, so get your credit cards ready if you enjoy fairy tales because that is exactly what it will be. If you want a preview of the coming fairy tale, just go back and look at their monthly letters written by Mr. Brisby over the last 10 years or so. Some who are currently attending there at COGTE, are finally seeing through this hypocrisy, and I pray more soon.
Have fun.