2 Kings 20:
1
In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, “This is what the LORD says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover.”
2
Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the LORD,
3
“Remember, LORD, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
4
Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him:
5
“Go back and tell Hezekiah, the ruler of my people, ‘This is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you. On the third day from now you will go up to the temple of the LORD.
6
I will add fifteen years to your life. And I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. I will defend this city for my sake and for the sake of my servant David.’ ”
7
Then Isaiah said, “Prepare a poultice of figs.” They did so and applied it to the boil, and he recovered.
8
Hezekiah had asked Isaiah, “What will be the sign that the LORD will heal me and that I will go up to the temple of the LORD on the third day from now?”
9
Isaiah answered, “This is the LORD’s sign to you that the LORD will do what he has promised: Shall the shadow go forward ten steps, or shall it go back ten steps?”
10
“It is a simple matter for the shadow to go forward ten steps,” said Hezekiah. “Rather, have it go back ten steps.”
But it gets worse. Joshua stopped the Earth in it's tracks for a whole day and there was no going backwards. It just slammed to a stop!
Joshua 10:
12
On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: “Sun, stand still over Gibeon, and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.
(Once the Earth stopped, I do wonder how the author could figure out it delayed sundown "about a full day."?)
14
There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the LORD listened to a human being. Surely the LORD was fighting for Israel!
Surely...….
Of course, both of these accounts are cosmological nonsense. In those days it was assumed that it was the Sun that moved around the Earth. We know this is not so. So in reality it would be the Earth that would needs stop dead for a moment and then rotate backwards about 40 minutes into the past for Hezekiah or in the case of Joshua's "Long Day" simply stop for a whole day and evidently INSTANTLY!
But for the Earth to stop dead in it's rotation, well......
Any way you look at it, it spells disaster
http://thescienceexplorer.com/universe/what-would-happen-if-earth-stopped-spinning
"Have you ever wondered what would happen if the Earth stopped spinning? You can probably guess that it would not result in anything good, in fact, it would be disastrous. If the Earth stopped spinning suddenly, most people on Earth would die. If the Earth slowed down gradually, it would be absolutely devastating, but there is a chance some people could survive. Here is what would happen.
If Earth Suddenly Stopped Spinning
Our atmosphere is rotating at the same rate Earth is spinning: approximately 1050 miles per hour at the equator, with the speed decreasing the further north or south you go from the equator. The rotation is effectively zero at the north and south pole.
If the Earth suddenly stopped rotating, the atmosphere would still continue moving at 1050 miles per hour, and anything not attached to bedrock would be ripped off the surface of the planet. This includes rocks, trees, buildings, people — all thrown sideways at a speed of 1050 mph (at the equator). Could you imagine the oceans being pushed inland with that speed? Oceans would travel approximately 17 miles (28 kilometers) inland in just 60 seconds. Yikes. If you are undergound far enough, such as a subway, or at either pole, you might be okay.
If Earth Gradually Stopped Spinning
You may be thinking that, if Earth gradually stops spinning, we won’t be flung around like rag dolls and everything will be okay. Wrong! It would be a disaster.
Oceans
Our Earth is not a sphere; it is bulbous, meaning it bulges at the equator (Earth is 26 miles larger around the equator than it is from pole to pole), all thanks to its spinning motion. If the Earth gradually slowed, the bulging water from the oceans would begin to move away from the equator towards the poles. Once Earth stopped spinning completely, leaving it as a sphere, the oceans would flood most of Earth leaving one giant megacontinent around the middle of the planet.
Atmosphere
The atmosphere rotates in sync with the Earth, however with Earth’s rotation slowing, the atmosphere begins to follow the flow of the oceans toward the poles. This flow would eventually lead to air being thicker at the poles and thinner at the equator. There would exist only four spots around the mid-latitudes where humans could survive.
Geological Disturbances
Earth is comprised of three main layers — the core, the mantle and the crust. Since each layer is composed of different material, as the Earth’s rotation slows, each layer will slow at a different rate, creating massive friction between the layers. This friction would result in earthquakes where there had never been earthquakes before and enhanced volcanism, especially on the ocean floor. Once earth stopped spinning, the geological disturbances would decrease.
The Bible is full of balderdash, but this one is easily explained away. Look at the context, as well as the Hebrew. It's the shadow -- the IMAGE -- of the Sun that is being discussed. Even an advanced alien, not a deity, could arrange mirroring/reflection to produce the effects in the sky as described in the Biblical text, giving the appearance of the Sun stopped in place while the Earth continued to move.
ReplyDeleteDennis - have you forgotten Velikovsky?
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky
Or are you a skeptic like his critics?
In general, Velikovsky's theories have been ignored or vigorously rejected by the academic community. Nonetheless, his books often sold well and gained an enthusiastic support in lay circles, often fuelled by claims of unfair treatment for Velikovsky by orthodox academia. The controversy surrounding his work and its reception is often referred to as "the Velikovsky affair".
It did make for fun reading at the time.
If God could change the rotation of the earth, he could no doubt change the other physical effects described here. Sheesh.
ReplyDeleteWhat atheists like the author of this article don't get is that God does not force them to believe in Him. They are on a need-to-know basis, and God does not need them to know about Him. The universe ran just fine before they came along and it will keep on running when they are dead and buried. He does not need those all-important nothings for anything.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how this article has anything to do with Velikovsky. Red Herring.
ReplyDeleteEven an advanced alien, not a deity, could arrange mirroring/reflection to produce the effects in the sky as described in the Biblical text, giving the appearance of the Sun stopped in place while the Earth continued to move.
ReplyDeleteThat comment gave me an idea: all God would need to do is create a vision in the minds of all those in Judea at the time.
I wish we had someone from creation.com to come on here as often as Dennis, just to balance things out. Not that I believe everything they say, but they do make you think.
ReplyDeletePerhaps it's just a Grand Illusion...
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/_9OYHqJ6t6I
I believe that only total literalists are confused or troubled by this. It is so obviously a mass illusion, just like the two-sided pillar of fire that suppressed the Egyptians pursuing the Israelites. God also used illusion for confusion of Israel's enemies in key battles of the Old Testament, and it's also pretty plain that the transfiguration in which Moses and Elijah appeared to Peter, James, and John was a vision, or illusion.
ReplyDeleteThing is, ol' literalist Herb treated Joshua's long day literally in his booklet "Has Time Been Lost?", so nobody in Armstrongism is ever going to even entertain the possibility that it could have been an illusion, despite the fact that Star Trek reruns have been around since 1967.
BB
Since I seem to be the exact opposite of Dennis, let me chime in some personal opinions here - just for musing and thought.
ReplyDeleteThe notion that God is bound by the laws of physics is, to me, untrue. God is beyond the laws of our universe, and our dimension - even beyond time and space itself, and has complete control and dominion over the laws of physics, time and space. The notion that God is subservient to physics lowers God to a "lesser god", and not The God. Lesser gods, or beings, known as demiurges - put in charge over the realms we know, regardless of what we know them as - still are subservient to "THE God" - or "the Unknown God". The entire concept that God is completely subservient to the laws of Physics and that God is bound by physics is ridiculous, to me. No offense, Dennis, I'm offering some counter-thought, not trying to disrespect your post.
This brings to mind the concept of Star Trek's "Holodeck", which in itself is a simulation. Captain Picard, Riker, LaForge - the REAL crew - are the "gods" of the holodeck. They command, the holodeck obeys, regardless whether or not what happens in the holodeck is "real", or "not". Picard says "freeze program", the program freezes. Picard says "reverse program", the program reverses. It obeys Picard's word, because Picard commands the computer. Picard has authority over the holodeck, and the "created universe" of the Holodeck. He can do whatever he wants, because he is the creator of the Holodeck. To me, in the same way, God can do what He wants, because He is the Creator of OUR realm, which is infinitely larger, and infinitely smaller - than anything we could possibly comprehend. Imagine being a holodeck creature stepping off the holodeck for the first time and seeing the REAL world. That, to me, is what my mind comprehends the realms outside our own universe as being like. I hesitate to use the word "simulation", but maybe in our minds, that's as close as we can come. That WE are in the "holodeck of God", so to speak.
This is of course just my speculation and thought. Now, at the present time, I am reading a book called "Proof of heaven" by an accomplished neurosurgeon, Eben Alexander, M.D., who had total brain dysfunction and experienced "heaven" (or whatever you want to call it), and wrote about it. He had complete brain cessation, and writes about his experience with vivid detail. He says this world is dreamlike compared to the reality of the beyond. His account and educated opinion cannot be dismissed. I'd encourage the readers here to buy and to read it for further discussion and thought.
These responses take me to end of the yellow brick road where the Wizzard is pulling the levers.
ReplyDeleteThere is no arguing with philosophers, just polite discussion of concepts.
Nck
If you are going to credit God with stopping the earth rotating for a while (which in effect the Bible does), then you also have to credit God with having a bit of intelligence.
ReplyDeleteIf He has the power to stop the earth itself rotating, do you really think He is stupid, and didn’t realise the waters, the atmosphere, as well as any other loose objects (such as people!) are also rotating???
Clearly, if He has the power to stop the earth rotating, He also has the power to ensure that all the other ‘loose’ objects stop at the same time, in harmony with the earth slowing, stopping or reversing.
Of course, He also could have done it in some other way, as has been suggested by others here, by making it just appear that it was happening.
If the story is one of illusion, mirroring, reflection and such, then it is a story of deception on God's part who really could not allow the earth to stop for Hezekiah's need to believe. The text admits that moving it ahead ten degrees would be easy but going backwards would hard. It is also hardly easy to quickly move the earth ahead ten degrees suddenly where I"d imagine the whiplash would send everyone and every thing West not East and the ignorance of the day shines through in the whole story.
ReplyDeleteI understand the need for everything stated in the Bible to be absolutely as presented. I did it from my childhood through my experience with WCG. But even as Paul is said to have said, "When I was a child, I thought as a child, I understood as a child, but now that I am a man, I have put away childish things."
The apologetics we can come up with to explain something that obviously needs an explanation because in our times it makes no sense, can't possibly have happened and completely reflects the lack of understanding of how things work and are can be amusing. When we try to come up with long convoluted explanations we are in effect "rewriting" the story, speculating and adding ideas, thoughts and beliefs to the text in the hope to explain it all so it comes out as really true.
NCK said it well,
These responses take me to end of the yellow brick road where the Wizzard is pulling the levers.
Why are we threatened or afraid to say "that is just a story." It had a purpose but it reflects the times in which it was written. Why do we not think there is something wrong with King Hezekiah for asking for such a thing to happen to prove that he really was going to be healed? That's not even normal to think that way. Take the healing and don't blow it! And all over a BOIL that got infected or something.
Why would we think a god would stop the earth's rotation for ONE human who wants proof he gets 15 more lousy years to live? Overkill it seems. Same for stopping the earth for a full day so one people can defeat another. Or even a Moses having help holding his hands/arms up to give his army the advantage and final victory or lose if he doesn't keep them up in the air. It's tale weaving for some reason then that escapes us now. We simply don't think like that, know more and thus struggle to come up with an explanation to keep the story literally true as if our faith would crash if it was not so.
Christian apologetics can separate one from their common sense, critical thinking and admitting that they even live in a time where knowledge has indeed been increased and it's a good thing. It can keep one's mind stuck in the Bronze and Iron Age which is nothing to brag about.
Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. In these and many other Biblical tales the simplest explanation is that it is a just a story that meant something to them, and writing such tales was not tale weaving or even lying, but escapes us today and it's OK.
and too,
ReplyDeleteNew Testament examples of making up stories to explain things we have no actual explanation for was very common. I have shown over the years that Matthew's "thus it was fulfilled" scriptures that he uses to tell the story of Jesus Birth Narrative was a writing style of the day. The original anonymous author, not Matthew, had no idea where or how Jesus was born or the circumstances. But since the Kings and Caesars of the day were all born in fantastic ways and of Virgins on their way to becoming deified, so was Jesus going to be evidently.
Luke comes up with a completely different story of Jesus birth and like it or not, they are not the same story, not even close. It is not two people seeking the same thing from a different perspective. It is two authors who never read what the other said. If Matthew cobbled a tale together from OT scriptures (The same thing was done for unknowable events and facts of the crucifixion. No one knew what Jesus said on the cross so let's go back and use Psalm 22 to tell the story), and Luke comes up with another story, not only is one not telling the literal truth but neither are. They just did not know where Jesus came from but he needed to come from somewhere and in a special way. Thus the Birth Narratives, which by the way, were inserted years later to counter charges against Mary and Jesus that Mary was a loose woman and Jesus born of fornication (John 8)
Perhaps it would have been a better tale with a better lesson for all had the God, Isaiah, King Hezekiah exchange ended with "Hey, Hezekiah, do not tempt God! Take the healing or the offer is going to be rescinded". It would have been a better lesson through the ages and not such a head scratcher for those living in times where we know better.
ReplyDeleteDeut 6:
ReplyDelete…15For the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God. Otherwise, the anger of the LORD your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth. 16 DO NOT TEST THE LORD YOUR GOD as you tested Him at Massah. 17You are to diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God and the testimonies and statutes He has commanded you.…?
Unless you a King with a nasty boil evidently. When the people wanted proofs for this or that they just got yelled at.
if God decides to stop the rotation of the earth, He will stop every molecule at the same time, then restart them together...no biggie.
ReplyDeleteCan you have 3 opposites?
ReplyDeleteMy opposite view to Dennis and SHT is that ware in a huge simulation. Of course the Great Designer can do whatever He wants.
Are we just AIs or are we or some of us avatars for people outside of the game - who have no knowledge of their real selves while they are playing? Maybe get new avatars (reincarnation) as the game progresses?
Perhaps the story was meant to convey that even a dying King Hezekiah had the power over prophets and even getting God to cater to his wishes? You know...a Dave Pack kinda view of himself.
ReplyDeleteDennis:
ReplyDeleteBut even in the atheist world, there are great mysteries that defy physical laws , that end up being difficult to explain or justify, like...
A singularity, with no beginning, and eternally existing, in a state of stability, woke up one morning and decided to blow itself up in the Big Bang without any external cause or explanation and the wonderful ordered universe was the result.
OR- Some chemicals and aminos SOMEHOW linked together, and decided to have the will for life, and have replicating DNA, and a cell membrane and lived happily ever after.
And many more. IF there is a God of the Universe and he is in control of the "forces" and can resurrect from the dead, etc. OBVIOUSLY he can suspend naturalistic laws for a time , or any given space.
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteBut even in the atheist world, there are great mysteries that defy physical laws , that end up being difficult to explain or justify, like...
A singularity, with no beginning, and eternally existing, in a state of stability, woke up one morning and decided to blow itself up in the Big Bang without any external cause or explanation and the wonderful ordered universe was the result.
OR- Some chemicals and aminos SOMEHOW linked together, and decided to have the will for life, and have replicating DNA, and a cell membrane and lived happily ever after.
And many more. IF there is a God of the Universe and he is in control of the "forces" and can resurrect from the dead, etc. OBVIOUSLY he can suspend naturalistic laws for a time , or any given space.
749 I'm not convinced s jealous Cultic mountain God that demands worship, meat and blood offerings to forgive sins and can't defeat the people in the valley because " they had chariots of iron" would be a bit short of molecular information and know how
ReplyDeleteI agree, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The explanation is that Dennis is jumping through intellectual loops to rob people of their belief in God and the bible. This because he is jealous that others are qualifying for the kingdom, but he has failed to do so himself.
ReplyDeleteA very simply explanation indeed!
People with ideas different from your own can only “rob” you if you allow them to. Sometimes, they do offer the occasional useable nugget which you can borrow to your benefit. You get to evaluate and discern!
DeleteAs Armstrongites, we weren’t allowed to think things through to logical conclusion, to consider alternative possibilities, to trouble-shoot, or to seek out second opinions. Our approved role was to receive and to believe. In this way, we were disempowered. The “apostle” was not to be questioned, and his ideas were not to be subjected to testing or even basic logic. We were taught that this was for our own good so that we would not fall away. But, what they meant by this was falling away from Armstrongism, which they equated with falling away from God.
There is one major problem with that. HWA was not Jesus Christ, and certainly not infallible. So, HWA doesn’t get to set the tone or to define, and therefore you won’t qualify for anything by allowing him to do so in your life. He was just a man, who tried to convince, and place himself in a position of power over you. That was the grand illusion which he employed.
BB
9:14
ReplyDeleteIt's just that "we" are ready to take a relationship with God beyond a bronze age level. (In all humility.) (And arrogance) since he is not responding to our challenges except by threats through his adherents.
I am 100 percent a challenger. Then again I am listening to the last holocaust survivors. As a kid one of them looked at the treetops beyond the barracks where his family was burnedand prayed to God to "get him out of that hellhole and he promised to never ask for favors anymore" and now he is talking to me in the park. And now I am a 100 percent believer.
Nck
749 " I am convinced..."
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:14
ReplyDelete“Dennis is jealous that others are qualifying for the kingdom, but he has failed to do so himself.”
Please explain how one qualifies for the kingdom.
Jim-AZ
"I agree, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The explanation is that Dennis is jumping through intellectual loops to rob people of their belief in God and the bible. This because he is jealous that others are qualifying for the kingdom, but he has failed to do so himself.
ReplyDeleteA very simply explanation indeed!"
Very simple (minded) and self-congratulatory.
Oh yes.
ReplyDeleteHe said that after the war at one point in his development had a crisis of faith, because he could not reconcile a good and just God and the events that he had gone through and the injustices he and millions of others had suffered.
After a while he concluded that there must be a Creator, that was chrystal clear to him and that the Almighty had given us finite minds and which just cannot comprehend what we ve gone through and therefore it is gods will that we do not understand and that we do believe in him purely through faith and not logic. And so he remained a practicing believer.
Nck
The problem with Dennis is he “rubs” people the wrong way. We are told on one hand to “prove all things, and to hold fast to what is true.” But when we read a scripture and ask how did this happen. We are supposed to make sure the answer fits in our neat little box of beliefs. God always suspends his laws natural laws is the answer. I find it hard to prove something when rules change back and forth. 2+2=4 except when it doesn’t. The questions Dennis raises make sense to me.
ReplyDeleteJim-AZ
We have historical records meticulously preserved by several advanced civilizations and it's never mentioned that the earth stopped rotating for a whole day or that the sun went backward. Just didn't happen. I overhear fantastic statements by ignorant people every day I'm out in public for very long. The conspiracy and unscientific utterances boggle the mind.
ReplyDeleteJim AZ
ReplyDeleteChrist was asked that question by the young rich man, to which He answered 'keep the commandments.' If one doesn't have to qualify for the kingdom as some claim, please explain the lake of fire with the weeping and gnashing of teeth thingy. If you believe that everyone should unconditionally be allowed into the kingdom, let me introduce you to some of my relatives.
Jim AZ
ReplyDelete'God always suspends His natural laws.' Not really. There are 'exceptions' but generally God honours His laws. For instance, Christ turned water into wine. Wine is mostly water, so the change in minimal. Christ used a few fish and loaves of bread to feed thousands. Again He was honoring that fish come from fish (fishing or animal breeding) and that grain food comes from grain (seeds plus farming). Notice also that God mostly uses other nations armies to punish evil nations, rather than direct miracles such as plagues. God has His miracle tool kit, but it's at the service of His ten commandments. There is no "2+2=4 except when it doesn't."
Here’s the way Dennis’s rubbing goes: To a practicing Armstrongite, just the fact that an ex-minister still exists and can publish his thoughts rubs them the wrong way. To some ex-members, Dennis is apparently their strawman stereotype of every mean and spiteful overbearing ACOG minister they ever met, and they’d confront him if he stated that water is wet. He rubs believers the wrong way because he is a nonbeliever, and regularly presents his case for non-belief.
ReplyDeleteMy point would be that none of these things should totally invalidate him as a person, or one to be discarded or disregarded. But, that’s what we were programmed to do with anyone who did not drink the Armstrong Kool Aid. “They” were all wrong, and one day we’d all be vindicated and shown to be right. That programming is not only hard to shake, yo, but some don’t even recognize it for what it is and attempt to shake it.
The guy is just someone who has different understanding from that of the different other tribes here. It would be extremely unusual if there were so many as two posters here who believed and felt exactly the same. Not even twins do that. Just as diversity in biology keeps the gene pool fresh, diversity in opinion sharpens our intellect. Except for people who have quit learning.
BB
This is a forum that supports opposing points of view.
ReplyDeleteLets not be like the looney left and looney right of today's politicians and believe it is my way or the highway.
We come from - or are still in - an organization where everyone was required to think exactly the same.
If God wanted perfect uniformity, He would have made robots instead of humans.
Suppose everything is a simulation. Did God ever say it's not a simulation?
ReplyDelete3:38 PM, we are a simulation being run during the Millennial rule of Jesus Christ, allowing people to see the danger and folly of living man's way apart from God.
ReplyDelete3.38 PM
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning, God created the simulation...
A simulation with no glitches or flaws is near impossible to create. It would require endless new music and discussion programs when people dial through their radio stations. And endless intelligent articles in magazine and newspapers when people browse through them. And all this to instantainiously response to peoples ongoing choices. Near impossible, even for God. Unless He dumbed down everything.
I do not believe any God deals in Fata Morgana, Wizzardry or Illusions.
ReplyDeleteGod must act through scientific laws.
Perhaps the Josua incident happened through God or it happened purely scientifically without any God.
But if in fact it happened perhaps the answer lies in Superposition or Entanglement, and qubits made for some amazing bible story.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612844/what-is-quantum-computing/
nck
“... and in prayer lord Agamemnon spake among them, saying.“Zeus, most glorious, most great, lord of the dark clouds, that dwellest in the heaven, grant that the sun set not, neither darkness come upon us, until I have cast down in headlong ruin the hall of Priam, blackened with smoke, and have burned with consuming fire the portals thereof, and cloven about the breast of Hector his tunic, rent with the bronze; and in throngs may his comrades round about him fall headlong in the dust, and bite the earth” ” (Homer, Iliad, Book 2, lines 411-18).
ReplyDelete“The significance of the sun stopping may simply be that the daylight hours were lengthened so Joshua had more time to defeat the enemy. This would make sense, given that battles in the ancient Near East ceased at sunset. But the fact that the sun and moon are both mentioned requires further explanation...” (Jerome F.D. Creach, Joshua, Interp., p.92).
My preference, FWIIW, would be that, as a result of God’s intervention, that instead of say 12 hours of light and twelve hours of darkness, on this day there was say 15 hours of light and 9 hours of darkness. But see below.
[Christ said that He would be three days and three nights [should He have said 3 nights and 3 days to be more accurate?] in the heart of the earth. The first day and night may have only been 2 hours - using ANE thought-forms; see R. Eliazar ben Azariah - last quarter of the first century and beginning of the second - on ‘onahs’].
The difficulty for today’s readers of the Bible, informed by Modern Western thoughtforms, is that the Bible was written by writers informed by ANE thoughtforms - the previous paragraph highlights this difficulty in interpretation - some take the time-frame literally, when it should be taken idiomatically - cp. “I will be there in a minute”].
“The interpretation of verse 12-14 is difficult, but an important starting point is to take seriously its poetic nature - that its thought world is phenomenological and metaphorical rather than historical or scientific. The best option is to read verses 12-13 figuratively as a poetic depiction of the military conflict on a cosmic scale. It compares to the claim of another poem, the Song of Deborah, that “from the heavens the stars fought, from their course they fought against Siserta” (Judges 5.20)...” ((Robert L. Hubbard Jr., Joshua, NIVAC), p.297).
(In regard to “cosmic reality that underline history” cp. the six angels killing the inhabitant of Jerusalem in Ezekiel 9 with the Chaldeans in 2 Chr 36:17; and the cosmic calvary of Rev 9:13-19 with 2 Kings 6:17).
Jos 10:13 And the sun and the moon stood still, until God executed vengeance on their enemies; and the sun stood still in the midst of heaven; it did not proceed to set till the end of one day” (LXX, Brenton).
Jos 10:13 And (still) the sun in the middle of the heavens, and did not hasten go to (down) for a day full (IHGEB). ( “a day full” equals an onah?)
“What is the precise meaning of this passage it is difficult to say. The language is very obscure. It has been usually interpreted to mean that the sun remained in the heavens twelve hours longer than usual. But this, though the most natural [at least from a modern western perspective], is by no means the only interpretation of the passage. The words, "did not hasten to go down as a perfect day," cannot be proved to have this meaning. In fact, it is difficult to fix a precise meaning on them. They belong rather to the domain of poetry than history, and their language is that of hyperbole rather than of exact narration of facts. Consequently, we are not entitled to build conclusions upon them, or draw arguments from them. It seems tolerably clear that twelve additional hours could hardly have been required by the Israelites for the complete extermination of their enemies” (Pulpit Commentary).
The above hopefully highlights some of the points that need addressing in an attempting to gain some understanding of what may have actually happened from this ANE historical account.
Wow if course.
ReplyDeleteYes and no raised the bar here.
Those scientifically inclined might still take a look at my quantam leap article.
But hey I like poetic license even more.
Nck
From a practical point of view - fighting for 36 hours straight without a break????
ReplyDeleteThat would be a HUUUUGE miracle - enough to even impress our President.
Well, BB, you're part way there, but you've never been able to abandon the crutch of belief in inanity. I do appreciate that you defend Dennis's approach to reason and facts. I used to preach to you in New York, and I'm sorry to say that you haven't progressed much beyond the gullibility of childhood since you still think there's a magical being "up There," wherever that might be.
ReplyDeleteAllen, as a young Ambassador College student, didn't you do an Abraham Lincoln impersonation for the talent show at the F/T in Big Sandy, Texas? I seem to remember it being based on the Gettysburg Address, but incorporating elements from the cigarette commercials of the day in key places.
ReplyDeleteBB
Yes, BB, I did an impersonation Lincoln. Made the big hat out of cardboard and the whole works.
ReplyDeleteAl Dexter, as you know, my own unbelief is just about as deeply entrenched as yours. However, I do not join you in urging Byker Bob to abandon his belief. He's already spent several years as an atheist and discovered it did not work for him. The faith he now has does.
ReplyDeleteHis personal life satisfaction aside, his belief in a magical being "up There" does not detract from his considerable value to other readers of this blog--both believers and unbelievers. In fact, I suspect that his world view gives him credibility in the eyes of many readers that encourages them to accept his wisdom.
Retired Prof, I recognize that BB is a good man. I respect him as an individual. Why he returned to "faith" is beyond me, but I guess it filled some psychological need.
ReplyDelete