For decades now we have seen hundreds and hundreds of articles, sermons and telecasts on the so-called "true church." It is now 2019 and the various Armstrong Churches of God are STILL trying to prove they are the only true ones. We've seen the self-appointed liars like Thiel, Malm, Pack, Wienland and others claim they were God's most highly favored sons and the rightful teachers of the "word".The Philadelphia Church of God, in its attempt to retain members, is trying to get its members to fall for the deception that Gerald Flurry's church is the "one and only".
Wik Heerama of the PCG has an article up on their website titled, "Where Is God’s True Church Today?" In it he says this:
“Throughout the Church’s history, though many fell away, Christ always led the faithful few. … There has never been a time that God’s Church did not exist after Christ built it. Its work may have been hidden, slowed down or nearly stopped. But the true Church always survived and revived!” (Philadelphia Trumpet, November 1996).
Not only did Christ found the Church, the Bible also reveals that He is its living Head(Colossians 1:18; Ephesians 5:23). That means He actively guides it.
Does it make sense that the Church Christ founded would be divided into many different sects and denominations? That Christ would be Head of many different organizations, each teaching different doctrines? God is not the author of confusion; He does things “decently and in order” (1 Corinthians 14:33, 40; the word “churches” in verse 33 merely refers to various congregations of the one true Church, as we shall see later). Teachings that contradict one another cannot all be true, and could not be inspired by Christ!Does it make any sense that the Armstrong Churches of God, which claims to be founded by Christ, are currently split into hundreds and hundreds of silly little groups? Hardly a year goes by anymore without some self-appointed turd claiming he is the new heir apparent. Do these idiots truly believe their "christ" is impressed by all of the divisions and organizations out there? Is that "christ" impressed by the blithering idiots that self-appoint themselves as Chief Overseer's or official Zealots?Is that "christ" impressed by the outright lies of Ron Weinland, Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry?
In fact, God inspired the Apostle Paul to write, “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (1 Corinthians 1:10). That is a deep level of unity! And we should expect to see that unity within the Christ-led Body of believers. There must be no division in what is believed, taught or preached (Ephesians 4:13).With over 400 some Armstrong Churches of God today, we have 400 some different interpretations of "truth". None of them speak the "same thing." They cannot agree on doctrine, prophecy, or even being followers of the "jesus" they claim to follow. They most certainly are NOT joined together in same mind and in same judgment!
Do the many differing and opposing churches of Orthodoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism “all speak the same thing”? Why is Christianity divided into many different churches, denominations and sects? Why do these different Christian groups believe such vastly different doctrines?The Philadelphia Church of God and the Armstrong Churches of God are in no position to criticize the various Christian denominations of Christianity. The questions Wik should have asked is:
Why is the Church of God divided into so many different splinter groups?
Why do these Churches of God believe such vastly different things?
It’s in the hearts and minds of various believers, crossing typical church boundaries. There may actually even be some members of the various ACOGs who, in spite of the Armstrong system, are quite by accident members of this true church of God! I am sure that a relative few of the people who were baptized into Armstrongism actually even received the Holy Spirit! There’re probably numerous surprises we’ll all receive in the next life!
ReplyDeleteBB
Strangely enough BB's statement is also in line with what used to be wcg doctrine.
ReplyDeleteEspecially when we take into account hwa's, "you are not getting it, mostly, well.......(pause) I hope most of you do."
The catholic church does NOT agree with BB since it requires the sacraments and stated this again. The current pope might agree with BB. But he is not regarded as a catholic by the local pharisees".
Nck
ReplyDeleteThe PCG needs a new booklet to tell about itself: Where Is Satan's FALSE CHURCH Today?
The first split in the early first century church came between Jewish Christians under James and Gentile Christianity under Paul. The only reason for this was that it did not matter because Jesus was coming back soon. The time was short and behold, Jesus was coming quickly because the night was far spent etc... When time went long and there was no imminent return of Jesus, even the NT shows there were more splits. Some, even at such an early stage became a group that believed the resurrection was already past. That was a split. Then came those that were cursed by another group because they said that Jesus had not even actually come in the flesh. How's that for having no recollection of a Jesus on earth so soon after he was supposed to be obviously on earth???
ReplyDeleteEven the author of Mark acknowledged a story or rumor that Jesus mom and brothers came down to get him and take him home "because they thought he was insane".
" Mark 3:21 21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind." This Mary seems to have forgotten about his miraculous birth circumstances that she was the main star in and the incident of his brilliance at age 12 debating the Priests in the Temple. The fact is that the author of Mark never heard such birth stories about Mary and simply reported that she thought he had gone nuts. Because it is such a negative comment and never repeated again or edited out of other Gospels, it probably has a kernel of truth to it. It certainly did not help the cause to hear that view Mary had of her son.
The longer it went with no return, the more splits and schisms. God may not be the author of confusion but he certainly allows it to propagate and prosper in his name.
It is the human ego that has run amuck amongst the Church of God Prophets, Priests Watchers, Elijahs, Joshuas, Zerubbabel's and all 37 of the Two Witnesses. These men are ignorant of the scriptures they claim to be experts in and delusional in their self absorb foolishness.
Even Christ posed the question to His disciples, "...when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8). The Greek reads "the faith" so perhaps He was asking whether "the true Faith" will even exist at His return due to so much loss in between then and His return. For instance, even now looking at Christianity as a whole it's nothing, but "babylon" or confusion and the Armstrong churches are definitely no different. The Western Christians (Catholics/Protestants) follow the Gregorian calendar. The Eastern Christians (Orthodox) follow the Julian calendar. In the Armstrongist movement it's no better with one family I know of each member follows a different calendar. So one keeps the Jewish calendar. Another follows the local new moon sightings. Another keeps the Sabbath according to Jerusalem time (ie on Sunday!). And everyone thinks they alone are right and everyone else is wrong! What a sorry state of affairs Christianity is in! So much for love and unity! SMH I can only say to all this, "Come quickly Lord Jesus!"
ReplyDeleteTo the theist, the true church is in your heart (Thomas Paine).
ReplyDeleteWhy so many denominations, because each church head wants to be the head. I give the orders, not take them. Mr. Thiel wants to be numero uno, as does Mr. Pack, Mr. Flurry, etc. If it wasn't for the religious business, does anyone in their right mind think that Mr. Flurry would own a jet?
ReplyDeleteThe reason that there are so many splits in the COG's is that they like any church are nothing but human institutions started by humans and ruled over by humans. The Churches of God are nothing but Churches of Men.
ReplyDeleteYears ago, when I was a member of the WCG, I sent a letter to someone in the C of G 7th Day and asked him about the split between HWA and the C of G 7th Day. He said that the issues were not just doctrinal, but personalities and the seeking of power. So it has been for centuries. As long as there is power, money, influence, status to be obtained, there will be splits. Many members couldn't tell you the difference between the many splinters. Why do so many people form their own churches? Not because of serious issues of doctrine, but because they thought that they should be the successor to the founder. In John 17:20-21 Jesus prayed for unity, not uniformity. As long as the cults insist on uniformity, there will be more splits. The WCG just can't seem to be able to distinguish between essential and non-essential doctrines. As long as people are not causing divisions, why can't they hold different views in non essential areas?
ReplyDeletePaul beseeched the Corinthians to all speak the same thing because they weren't! Go back to the beginning of Paul's first letter to them - different groups claimed to follow different leaders. As Dennis has pointed out, there were many divisions within the early church. According to the book of Acts, they had to have a grand council to settle the disputes between Jewish and Gentile Christians. We are informed that Peter and Paul, and Paul and Barnabas had major disagreements over their faith perspectives. John wrote that Diotrephes was casting people out of his church.
ReplyDeleteWhy were there divisions in the church? Why are there currently divisions within the church? Because they are made up of people, and people are subject to things like anger, jealousy, ambition, resentment, etc. God isn't the author of confusion - WE ARE!
The real ekklesia is composed of people who have been called together by GOD, not those who have been organized into groups founded by folks like Pack and Flurry. Everyone who has God's Spirit is a member of that church and is answerable to the head - Jesus Christ. And, as Byker Bob suggested, that probably includes some folks who belong to human organizations like the Roman Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church and the Philadelphia Church of God.
We might believe a lot of things that contradict each other's beliefs and aren't necessarily true. Fortunately, that is NOT the standard. Whether or not God's Spirit resides within you - what's in your heart - THAT is what determines whether or not you are a part of the TRUE ekklesia. Hopefully, we understand that different people start at different places and respond to the leadership of the Spirit differently (the Holy Spirit leads, guides, directs - it doesn't dictate).
The fact that Jesus says in Revelations chapter 1 verse 13 that HE stands in the MIDST of the 7 churches (all different problems in them by the way), tells me that no one group holds exclusivety with him.
ReplyDeleteNck,
ReplyDeleteThat is not what used to be the WCG belief. Many sermons and instructions from the pulpit, HQ, and AC tried to explain away "Christians" that mightily sacrificed or dedicated their lives and love for others. this was simply "worked up" in the individual without the holy spirit even though these "Christians" were exhibiting all the fruits of the Spirit.
Now, they made room for the very very very rare exception as God may choose in His master plan, but for virtually everyone alive, membership in the WCG or being "worked" with pre=membership in the WCG was the only way as it was government and truth from the top down. Undoubtedly there were some sentences in print that gave plausible deniability to outsiders looking in, but then they would be explained in-house as really referring to those in the 2nd resurrection.
This was the understanding of everyone I knew and if Armstrong believed otherwise his communication skills failed him, but apparently his marketing skills did not.
Flurry and his ilk are so unoriginal that they still have their booklets in the same shape, color schemes, layout and fonts as those from 1967 WCG!
ReplyDeleteI guess they believe this is the "Holy Layout and Look" for the distribution of information as they do "all things Armstrong"!
Nice comment Miller 6:00. We know Paul accounted for different beliefs regarding days and food, etc. AND he instructed that these should not divide but rather we show love to those that think differently on some issues.
ReplyDelete6:56 You are correct, the WCG may have given lip service to there being other in the church besides WCG and maybe a few other Sabbath keepers but that isn't what most believed.
ReplyDeleteI remember back in 1991 a 27 year old me, after the Berlin wall came down and we found out about the Sabbath keepers in the Ukraine, asking men in their 50's and 60's in the church, "Are they part of God's church?". Their answer was only if they join the WCG.
That, and Stavrinides articles in the WWN that it was impossible for Christ to sin and we're already born again is why in Feb. 1992 I called the local hireling and quit. Should have done that long before 92!
Kevin McMillen
Kevinmcmillen64@gmail.com
"Undoubtedly there were some sentences in print that gave plausible deniability'
ReplyDeleteJim. I do agree with you somewhat. It was not just some sentences. It was for example in the STP which is the best reflection of what we believed.
I said I do agree with you.
It seems however that "plausible deniability sentences" could be interpreted completely different by members with different backgrounds.
Your regular southern baptist wcg convert might just interpret and believe those sentences differently in private than someone with a catholic background in wcg.
The differences are even more apparent with wcg converts from france, germany and the philipines with those from the southern USA.
The differences are EXTREME with those like BB raised in a pre 1974 context and me wcg in a post 1974 context.
Not it was not plausible deniability. I claim to understand Dennis like NO other on this blog. Since I know EXACTLY what his background is and the journey that followed.
His musings are like the complete body of literature of certain nations that followed the exact spiritual journey. My point. It depends where you were coming from in what manner one was "assimilated" (as BB would put it).
nck
Hi Jim.
ReplyDeleteI remember one time that BB exploded after I said that WCG was breath of fresh air in a stifled religious environment. This was anathema to his experiences in the sixties.
Of course he was not privy to the body of literature relating to the stifling experience produced by writers from a confused and secularizing protestant world in my neck of the woods.
I also remember members coming into wcg from the "norwegian brethren" even worse than the ordinary fundamentalist experience at the time. They believed wcg to be heaven on earth with just one time fasting per year.
nck
Kevin 8:20.
ReplyDeleteI remember that very well and had high hopes with the talks wcg conducted with cog7 and other sabbatarians at the time.
Personally I considered GTA still part of "Gods Church" in the eighties, although I thought him to be the instrument that had ushered in the Laodicean era for the Church.
I believed this since 90 percent of gta's preaching mirrored wcg but he clearly broke away and the letters to the seven churches say 'but there are some among you ......etc....'
I also remember the lukewarm response by tkach when newsagencies inquired at hq about the fall of the berlin wall and how wcg felt about that. While I was excited enough to immediately go to berlin and literary chop the Wall down my long time church leaders who had preached about it for decades dismissed it as a non event. This sowed the seed for my later departure. (among many other)
nck
Sorry Jim for writing to 6:56, I didn't see your name.
ReplyDeleteKevin
Nck, I always got a kick every time "ministers" and GTA tried to pay lip service the the "there are a few others out there", they would always bring out that back in the late 60's or early 70's how they "found" a group of Sabbath and Feast keepers down in South America and the only difference was that they kept Pentecost on Sunday rather than Monday as WCG did at the time.
ReplyDeleteThey never gave credit to G.G. Rupert the former SDA "minister" who founded that group back in the late 1800's to early 1900's.
Just like Herbie never gave Rupert the credit for his learning of the Feast days.
Kevin McMillen
Kevinmcmillen64@gmail.com
Excellent, what a webpage it is! This weblog provides useful information to us, keep it
ReplyDeleteup.
Herbie did give credit in mass publication to millions of readers, to the Sunday keeping minister that baptized him!
ReplyDeletenck
Who knows for sure if the is any such thing as a totally true church of God group anymore. If God can destroy the Temple and bring Jerusalem to ruin as punishment then why not WCG. Jesus who shouted Blind Guides! at the religious leaders then, what does he think of the religious leaders now?
ReplyDeleteNoone seeks Gods opinion. Everyone is doing right in their own eyes. Blind eyes.
This is from the PCG news about Flurry’s health:
ReplyDeletePrayers for Pastor General Gerald Flurry are appreciated: Since his campaign in Portland, Oregon, he has experienced intensified discomfort and pain in his leg, which prevented him from speaking at headquarters during the spring holy days. He plans to resume his normal schedule as soon as possible.
Prayers for Pastor General Gerald Flurry are appreciated: Since his campaign in Portland, Oregon, he has experienced intensified discomfort and pain in his leg, which prevented him from speaking at headquarters during the spring holy days. He plans to resume his normal schedule as soon as possible.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4/25 5:42 AM said: "As long as people are not causing divisions, why can't they hold different views in non essential areas?"
ReplyDeleteExactly! Couldn't agree with you more!
But, sadly the problem is what is defined as "non essential" to one is the primary justification to break up groups and families to another.
C'mon everybody knows that the True Church(TM) is located in beautiful Wadsworth, Ohio (conveniently located next to Giant Eagle).
ReplyDeleteSorry, nck @8:52. WCG was bad halitosis, not a breath of fresh air. I've also compared it to Rappaccini's Garden. Baddd, bad dinner music!
ReplyDeleteBB
Concluding questions asked were: "...Why is the Church of God divided into so many different splinter groups?
ReplyDeleteWhy do these Churches of God believe such vastly different things?"
Is it possible Jesus Christ gave us, as a minimum, part of an answer via John 10 by mentioning some "big bad wolf" using his "little pawns/helpers/hirelings" (2 Cor 11:13-15) to divide and conquer (even murder!) and scatter God's flock?
John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
And yet allow the sheep to go in and out of some pasture (verse 9) and still, of all things, not be plucked out of Christ's hands (verse 28)!
Time will tell...
John