That gang of fun-loving boys in Cincinnati held another Conference of Elders recently. This is always that fun time when the UCG ministry from around the world gathers to hear words of encouragement, learn that budgets have been set ensuing their salaries for one more year, and hear important topics that the world is soooooo interested in, like British Israelism. It seems like after 24 years things still have not changed.
Of the 300 some elders pastoring in UCG, only 144 even bothered to show up. Seriously dudes, get your act together! You have a great commission in front of you, act like it! Sheesh!
Anyway, at this conference, like ALL the other conferences, goals were set out for the church to aspire to. UCG is still desperately seeking to make itself relevant to the world of 2019/20. They want their members to be filled with joy and so warm and loving that people will flock to join up. Yeah, right. I'm going to start holding my breath right now that this will be accomplished. I just know it will! Cough....
UCG elite from Cincinnati will be traveling to as many UCG churches as possible this year to show the members that they love them and care for them, so much so that they will continue to pay tithes and keep the church afloat, which is the ultimate reason behind these trips.“I would like to share with you the nine primary goals I have as Operation Manager for Ministerial and Member Services:Develop close relationships with all pastors and elders. Together we want God to be pleased with our service to His children and called-out ones.Encourage all pastors to be helpers of our members’ joy and to involve all members in service wherever possible. Develop church congregations around the world that are warm and inviting to new attendees.
The Boys in Cincinnati are also going to survey the members of UCG to see if they are satisfied with the church and its ministry. Just how many more of these surveys does UCG need to do to figure out things are not right in the church? The huge implosion that formed the Church of God a Worldwide Association should have been a warning sign that things were NOT going well!Visit as many church areas as feasible with the intent to meet as many members as possible and to cultivate a relationship of mutual trust and openness.
They are going to implement annual pastor and elder self-evaluations. Seriously? Self-evaluations? Can UCG members honestly expect ministers to properly self-evaluate? Why not let the members evaluate the ministers and elders? That will quickly hold ministers accountable and swiftly ensure some will be losing jobs! Oh, wait! This is UCG after all, and they protect their own. No minister needs to ever worry.Survey every congregation to determine overall satisfaction level of members and to help pastors and elders improve in their service to our local congregations.
The ministry is also encouraged to head off conflicts in the church by invoking Matthew 18. (In case you forget what Matt 18 is about, it is posted below.) Many, if not most of the conflicts in the church have been caused by ministers, elders, and the leadership in Cincinnati. That doesn't matter though, its the members who will be accused of causing problems. They always have been.Implement annual pastoral and elder self-evaluations, in collaboration with regional pastor and pastors.Improve regional ministerial conferences and ministerial education, Leadership Workshops, Pastoral Development Program, all programs and online training.Respond to international requests and needs for training and help.Encourage all pastors to mentor others in their congregations to serve in the ministry.
Endeavor to head off conflicts in the early stages–point everyone involved to follow Matthew 18 carefully.I asked all pastors and elders to be actively involved in helping these goals to be realized. I would ask that you, too, where applicable, also help in the achievement of these goals for Ministerial and Member Services.”
Matthew 18 New International Version (NIV)
The Greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven
18 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
Causing to Stumble
6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
The Parable of the Wandering Sheep
10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. [11] [a]
12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.
Dealing With Sin in the Church
15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[f] loosed in heaven.
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant
21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[g]
23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[h]was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[i] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
Funny thing is, they’re probably patting one another on the back and thinking about how momentous and profound this all is.
ReplyDeleteBB
They and most of the splinters are succeeding brllliantly with their great commission of full employment for the ministry with paid vacations.
ReplyDeleteMembers - give your hearts to the work and your pocketbooks to the preacher!
"..important topics that the world is soooooo interested in, like British Israelism."
ReplyDeleteLMAO
How can you go wrong following High-School-Dropout Herbert Armstrong?
Did you know the Vietnamese are actually Israelites?
Just follow 'Dan's Trail' using Herbert's contorted 'logic':
DaNang, DongHoi, DongHa, LongDai, DongSim, DucTh, ThanDinh...
Just looking at the list of scriptures shows plainly that the flocks are the ones that need correcting. Casting all the blame on the flocks for the demise of the church will never solve their problems. They need instead to look upon themselves to see what changes they need to enforce.
ReplyDeleteComments regarding $SELF$ made were: "...That gang of fun-loving boys in Cincinnati held…fun time when the UCG ministry from around the world gathers to hear words of encouragement, learn that budgets have been set ensuing their salaries for one more year…It seems like after 24 years things still have not changed.
ReplyDeleteOf the 300 some elders pastoring in UCG, only 144 even bothered to show up...UCG elite from Cincinnati will be traveling to as many UCG churches as possible this year to show the members that they love them and care for them, so much so that they will continue to pay tithes and keep the church afloat, which is the ultimate reason behind these trips...The Boys in Cincinnati are also going to survey the…Just how many more of these surveys does UCG need to do to figure out things are not right in the church? The huge implosion that formed the Church of God a Worldwide Association should have been a warning sign that things were NOT going well!..."
If that weren't enough, some of United's current situation was thought about in May 1997 when a sermon on God's Government, Part 1, was given predicting the results indicated by the above comments:
******
"......They’re still stuck back there in the sixties and the seventies. That’s where they’re stuck. That’s where all of these little organizations are. They have some truth, but they’re not being led!
Then, you look at UNITED! Now, I’m sure I’m going to offend a lot of people who will hear these taped sermons later out there, but this is a real mess! None of these men were even considered to be chosen by Mr. Armstrong; were they? None of them were, but they all voted themselves in anyway; didn’t they? Now, that’s not such of a firm foundation to have when you have to vote yourself into office.
Where was God? Oh, they may say that: “Well, look at the Apostles! They cast lots.”
Yes, but they were already Apostles!
You guys weren’t even that. None of you were the leaders. You really weren’t, and GLOBAL was already going at the time. They were already following what you knew and perceived to be right, but do you see? All of these ministers who went with UNITED: they never liked being under authority and they wanted their say-so. They wanted their opinions to be heard, so they all joined in one big mass.
Now, why start a church like that? You already have one going that was doing the same thing that Mr. Armstrong was trying to do, but they didn’t want to be under authority.
I look at this as: “This is the ‘Boys’ Club!’ We’re going to do it our way,” and they’re not going to give up that RULE. Now they all think that they have the authority and that’s really a shame.
What’s their first agenda? “We’re going to pay ourselves very well!” Some of their literature came out with the ranges of salary. All I can say is: “Friends, it’s a non-profit, ‘church,’ organization! Why are any of you paying yourself that much? Well, it’s free money coming off of the backs of the members, isn’t it? The members through God’s Spirit are loyal and they tithe. What are you doing with it?”
Well, one of the first things that they want to set up is, of course, their retirement fund. It’s one of the first things and, when you look at their budget after paying the ministry, there’s really no more money. There’s really not that much money to do anything, any work, whatsoever. I’m not saying that they have to do a work, but you can see that they’re taking care of self very well, and that’s too bad.
When they got together their attitude was: “We will vote ourselves to happiness! Every time we don’t like something, we’ll just take another vote! We’ll vote it our way again, and if we don’t like the other guy: we’ll vote him out!”......"
******
Will they continue to take care of SELF with $ while striving to vote themSELVES to happiness?
Time will tell.
John
In 1992, when Vic Kubik took over WCG Church Administration after Larry Salyer quit, and Vic Kubik began handing down the raw deals to the peons so the bigwigs could keep their pensions, it was about preacher's pensions.
ReplyDeleteIn 1995, when Vic Kubik, Tkach's hatchet man, wrote "Can It Ever Be," and formed UCG, it was about preacher's pensions.
in 1999, when David Hulme was spending too much, so they kicked him to the curb and he split off, it was about preacher's pensions.
In 2008, when Clyde Kilough started spending too much, so they kicked him to the curb, and COGWA split off, it was about preacher's pensions.
And make no mistake, in 2019, can you guess what they're still "United" about?
ReplyDeleteFrom the Silenced website:
Crisis and Split
A decision to move the Church’s home office to Texas was rescinded in 2008, causing considerable tension within and between the Council of Elders and the General Conference of Elders. In 2009, two members of the Council of Elders resigned. This included then-president Clyde Kilough, whose resignation was effective July 28th, 2009, and Richard Thompson, effective July 27th, 2009. Personal reasons were cited by both members. In 2010, disunity started to tear UCG apart.
An anonymous blogger going by the handle ‘Abigail Cartwright’ launched a blog entitled UCG Current Crisis leaking insider information surrounding a spat amongst UCG leadership that lead to the ouster of then-president Clyde Kilough. This was information being purposely suppressed by the ministry, even by those who disagreed with the official propaganda being distributed to the masses, out of fear of losing their jobs. The blog contended with issues regarding censorship, baseless rumors, and outright lies being perpetrated by ministers, elders and laymembers alike within the church.
Essentially, Abigail Cartwright’s revelations single-handedly led to a massive schism within UCG. The posting of internal GCE and presidential emails and letters revealed the controversy surrounding the cancellation of plans to relocate the church’s home office to Denton, Texas and a disagreement between factions over whether to concentrate media projects on the internet or on cable television. The letters also revealed an increasing paranoia on the part of the newly-elected ‘interim’ UCG president Dennis Luker, who comes off as a vindictive, emotionally unbalanced and untrustworthy leader who fired ministers and staffers based on even the slightest rumor of disloyalty.
Luker, in response to growing unease from most of UCG’s ministry, fired all of the regional pastors and put a ‘trinity’ of Roy Holiday, Victor Kubik and himself in charge of all the daily operations of the church.
Those who knew about the corruption and scandal, aka the reasons why their ministers were losing their jobs left and right, officially split on January 8, 2011 along with 75 percent of UCG’s ministry, taking 5,000 members from their fold and forging a new organization, Church of God a Worldwide Association, essentially resurrecting WCG in name.
The aftermath of the schism quickly revealed the reasons why UCG pushed out so many dissenters and abolished their presence in Latin America, Africa and other third world countries. COGWA is now saddled with funding these poor congregations, has no media projects, and now there are no dissenters against Holiday, Luker, and Kubik. By failing to fight for their church, the dissenters in COGWA essentially surrendered the future of UCG, most of whose members still have no concept of what the split was truly about: their tithe money, who gets to spend it and on what.
Most people who left did so based on an emotional response to the posts made on UCG Current Crisis, which were presented sans commentary or context from Abigail Cartwright. This was one of the few occasions when COG members got to think for themselves, however armed with only the partial facts, they made a decision that has left both organizations weaker than ever before.
In 2011, UCG had roughly 5,000 of its members split from the church over disputes over leadership, a home office move, the Latin American and African congregations, and the perceived hostile takeover of Dennis Luker and his allies of the organization’s leadership reins.
The church culture has never been one of members privately rebuking other members, as taught in the bible. Rather, the ministers put themselves between the members. Ministers get involved with every petty complaint, every dirty look, every disagreement. Instead of teaching Gods way, these churches keep feeding their members spiritual meat, and choose to micro manage members lives instead. They follow members like dogs. This is condemned many times in the bible. Robbing members of their adulthood is a defacto version of Moses's sin of pushing God to one side. We all know how God reacted to that. It's interesting that the ministers aren't deterred by that example. It shows the wisdom of God in refusing Moses's plea to allow him into the promised land.
ReplyDelete10.02 AM
ReplyDeleteNice write up. But it sounds as if you are blaming the COGWA dissenters for the split by accusing them of failing to fight for the church. Avoiding difficult people is the most common piece of advice given on blogs dealing with toxic personalities. Prophets, including Christ, hid from others on occasion. This solution shouldn't be condemned.
I was one of those people who went with UCG when it started. Like many others, I thought it was a chance for the church to reinvent itself and become more grace-filled and loving. Boy was I wrong! It was obvious from the start that those in charge were ensuring that they had an income coming in and that their lifestyle would not change from what they were used to in WCG. I watched as the men who had been disfellowshipping people months before were now parroting a new understanding. It apparently never bothered them at all that they kicked out hundreds and hundreds of members for not agreeing with the changes as they now jumped right over in UCG, paycheck assured and continued on doing what they were used to doing in WCG. As the years went on the sermons became more and more boring as did the magazine articles. How many times do we need to read the same exact articles or hear the same sermon that were popular in the 1960s. The commentator above that claims the church is still stuck in the 1960s is absolutely correct. It is 2019 and the world is totally different than it was in 1960, 1975, 1986, and even 2016.
ReplyDeleteWe finally asked our teenage children if they were learning anything in church and they said no. We stopped attending a few weeks ago and now have quality family time. Their friends from church never even bothered to see why they were not there. So much for that love they want to exemplify!
Anon 10:02 What biased lies you write.
ReplyDeleteDennis Luker asked directly for a church divorce in a sermon that was played in every United congregation.
When the sermon was finished people chosen by the ministry including anointed deacons and deaconesses went directly up to fellow United members asking them directly 'Did you understand?''Did you hear what he said?' 'You must be upset'
As far back as 2007 United members were being told Mr ... United pastor seeks to take the place of Mr.... United pastor.
Many United members knew something was amiss within United Church of God for years.
John 13:35
ReplyDeleteBy this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Thanks UCG/COGWA/LCG//// for making it clear to us that you are not Christ's disciples.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Free at last!
The UCG has set its self up for failure. Yes there isn't one man who dictates from the top but there is a sort of dictatorship by committee. Yes there is more financial accountability but there is still an emphasis on tithing which robs the flock of much of their hard earned money. The UCG wants it both ways. They want to be accepted as mainstream but still hold onto the legalism of armstrongism. Their cultic beliefs are not going to attract more then a handful of new members and their desire to be accepted by mainstream Christianity turns off hardline armstrongites who view them as watering down the truth.
ReplyDeleteAnon 1:39 PM points out about UCG
ReplyDeletethere is still an emphasis on tithing
A strong emphasis on tithing has not stopped the Mormons from becoming one of the fastest-growing religious groups. Perhaps this is because Mormons can generally see the good that their tithes do for their church, which doesn't spend the people's tithes on a huge paid ministry (only a few top leaders receive stipends, and as of a couple of years ago the head of the whole Mormon church got just $120K/year, a pittance by Armstrong/Tkach standards).
ReplyDeleteThe Unbelieving Church of Godlessness, an International Abomination (UCGaIA)
The UCG is a godless mess. The old Tkach goons now running the UCG are bad news. The newly-credentialed fake “ministers” in the UCG are bad news. There is no longer any Good News in the UCG. The UCG is a bunch of bad people pretending to believe some of HWA's old teachings while they behave like a bunch of perverts. From the old minister's kids, to the new fake “minister's” kids, to the member's kids, everyone seems to marry completely outside of the UCG and want nothing to do with it. Unbelieving weirdos and stalkers hang out at the UCG and get their victims kicked out. The UCG is a godless mess.
UCG is a failing church, but let's be honest:
ReplyDelete"Of the 300 some elders pastoring in UCG, only 144 even bothered to show up."
This is a little unfair, many of those guys liver far away and it would be expensive, and are able to participate online. Some are really old too.
The COGWA split is not viewed well anywhere. I will help illustrate what this was like on the ground.
You current minister was given an ultimatum to obey the council or leave. So they quit. What do you do? Your previous two ministers, you find out the next day, were also given the same ultimatum.
Now, the only decent men you know were forced to chose between fealty to Vic Kubik or be fired. Maybe there was a conspiracy to have a backup plan, but a lot of men were forced out before COGWA was formed.
At the very least, we should applaud some of the COGWA ministers for doing at tiny part of what many of us on Banned expect them to do, stand up against other leaders.
Did they do it perfectly? Nope. But it was a start. How many people here stayed with their church when they were treated badly?
I was a member of UCG during the crisis. I spoke to Vic Kubik about it. I told him that if it was indeed "united" as the name implied, then he needed to heal the rift, bring people back together, and find some common ground over which to barter a compromise.
ReplyDeleteBy sidestepping my talking points, he indicated in so many words that he wasn't interesting in "uniting," healing any rifts, or finding any common ground. He was bent on scorching the earth.
The only real defense he could muster for his own actions, and those of his cohort, was that they hadn't committed any crimes! That's right. That's the only standard he was willing to cite. Not Jesus, not the bible, not the golden rule, not turn the other cheek, not even fair and reasonable secular business ethics. Nope, the standard he espoused was the Unified Criminal Code. Any bar higher than that was too high for him. That told me all I needed to know. I knew then that there was no place for me in that damnable organization that, against all evidence and practice, dared to call itself "united." What a farce!
I left with COGWA for a brief stint on my way out of Armstrongism. COGWA wasn't for me either. There's little difference between them and LCG, but the sermons seemed even worse.
Now I realize that there's nothing "true" about the Armstrongist movement. If there's a path to finding the Christian God, Armstrongism will not help you find that path. Herbert knew nothing about it and neither do any of the ministers he "ordained," by nothing more than his own meaningless "authority." I have as much authority to "ordain" ministers of Jesus Christ as Herbert Armstrong did. There's absolutely nothing of value to be found in Armstrongism besides the cash which the peons like you and me bring to the table. The ministers bring nothing to the table in kind.
Anon,May 24, 2019 at 5:40 AM, wrote: "...In 1992, when Vic Kubik took over WCG Church Administration after Larry Salyer quit, and Vic Kubik began handing down the raw deals to the peons so the bigwigs could keep their pensions, it was about preacher's pensions.
ReplyDeleteIn 1995, when Vic Kubik, Tkach's hatchet man, wrote "Can It Ever Be," and formed UCG, it was about preacher's pensions.
in 1999, when David Hulme was spending too much, so they kicked him to the curb and he split off, it was about preacher's pensions.
In 2008, when Clyde Kilough started spending too much, so they kicked him to the curb, and COGWA split off, it was about preacher's pensions.
And make no mistake, in 2019, can you guess what they're still "United" about?..."
That was a good summary of voting leaders in/out of office when God does not provide a leader; however you said: "..Vic Kubik, Tkach's hatchet man, wrote "Can It Ever Be," and formed UCG..."
Some may be wondering: what is "Can It Ever Be" all about. I attended that Indy Conference and Victor read that memo on the last day of the conference just prior to everyone leaving to return back home. FWIIW, the memo said this:
******
CAN IT EVER BE? That cohesive, Christ-led entity that we all want so dearly? Or does Indy seal our fate to factions and factions? The hopes are high, the stakes are critical. Indy will be either a dawning of a New World Tomorrow, or the proof of our folly.
PIE IN THE SKY is what the detractors say. Some of them are us, you know. Our “leaders” have already laid foundations and are even laying superstructure. The meek words of just a few weeks ago… “We’ve just started this in case it’s of any help, but we’ll gladly dissolve it” are seemingly replaced with corporate structure lauding the wisdom of “follow me.” Has “unity” already slipped to a cliché, a buzzword of egotists? I’ve seen that once people invest time, money and gain supporters they “have God’s blessing.” After all, they prayed about it.
Dissolution of their structure for a greater cause becomes too great a defeat. The show must go on.
WHAT IS INDY? It’s a chance for a ground up, New Testament organized body of believers.
WHAT WILL INDY BE? I know what you and I want it to be. But do you know what many see it as? Separate leaders of several pre-formed groups pushing their system at each other, followed by the winner selling it to the ministry. The ministry is invited to view the outcome and cast in their lot, depending on who "wins" and if they like the smell of it.
WHO LOOSES IF INDY FALTERS? The churches back home. The little flocks who are staking their faith in Indy. The loyal pastors who have forfeited everything to wait on Christ and to come learn his will for their next step. I hope He’s there. He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
Just some concerns and fears…I don’t know what it WILL be, I know what it MIGHT be and what it CAN be. I’ll be there in support. Be careful who gets control. Make sure it’s God.
******
To my knowledge, Vic did not write that memo. I asked Vic to send me a copy, which Vic did do, and in his letter to me he wrote: "...Here is the memo that was sent to me by a minister regarding our hopes for Indianapolis..."
Yes, it's about finances, but it's also about control and some other things.
Do the contents of this memo, today, regarding "some concerns and fears" still have any meaning to those who attended that conference and heard Vic read it to one and all there? Would it have any meaning for Vic today? And what does the minister that wrote it, if still alive and is still supporting the United Ass., now think about those concerns and fears? It wouldn't surprise me if the author bailed out, no longer supports United, and shifted over to the CogwAss.
Time will tell...
John
3.48 PM
ReplyDeleteAccording to my Google search, the Mormons have held their membership numbers at 2% of the U.S. population in the last few years. Their resilience in numbers is put down to their strong emphasis on traditional marriage and family.
No tea or coffee allowed by them??? It seems all religions have their killjoy element.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous on May 24, 2019 at 4:50 PM said...“The only real defense he [Victor Kubik] could muster for his own actions, and those of his cohort, was that they hadn't committed any crimes! That's right. That's the only standard he was willing to cite.”
In his own mind, the apostate Tkach's goon Victor Kubik has never “committed any crimes.” He was always “just following orders.” He just did what any good Nazi would do.
At least one Council of Elders member was on the road weeks before this year's GCE, visiting small congregations in the Midwest and "representing the Council."
ReplyDeleteI hope he's really receiving helpful feedback, and not launching a campaign for UCG President.
The idea of "self-evaluations" is straight from II Corinthians 13. Will they occur in the weeks before Passover, when all the lay members are supposed to do it?
And as for the Dennis Luker "church divorce" sermon (I assume from the Winter Family Weekend of 2010) - the UCG congregation I attended at the time never showed or played it. Instead, there was an unusual "open discussion" after the sermon at the following week's service. Then, in the Pastor's words, "we're moving forward."
Tkach's goons had the responsibility of protecting the sheep. Instead they aided and abetted the wolf in devouring the sheep. This is worse than a Nazi "just following orders." It's history that one Nazi soldier was acquitted in a Allied military court for dropping poison gas canisters into the death chambers. They reasoned he would have been executed otherwise. By contrast, no one put a gun to the heads of these goons.
ReplyDeleteAnon 425, the united leaders definitely had the ick factor, but the cogwa-ites were disingenuous and lied about their plans and purposes. There was talk about a different focus and structure, but then they chose the worldwide name, leadership that can only be those deep in Armstrongism for 20 plus years as a minister, hymnals that matched the colors of the two original Armstrong hymnals, sermons about the golden age of armstrong, etc. And, once they believed themselves to be stable (by having an inexpensive online work allowing the ministry better pay), they marginalized those that thought differently even though these individuals supported them during the split. Like clockwork.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThe UCG had produced some half-decent literature in the past. The problem is that the weirdos, rebels, gossips, perverts, and stalkers who went to the UCG did not even bother to read it. They just went there to spout off all their own stupid ideas.
????
Delete
ReplyDelete“United Church of God Still Cannot Figure Out How To Properly Run Itself After 24 Years”
The UCG figured out how to RUIN itself.
Close enough.
ReplyDeleteLessons From Conflict in the Church of God (or, ‘How to Prepare for the Big One’)
Presented by Joel Meeker
He says some interesting things about what was happening to the minsters in the UCG before the split off of COGWA. Available at the COGWA website at the following address (copy and paste it into your browser):
https://members.cogwa.org/fnl/lessons-from-conflict-in-the-church-of-god-or-how-to-prepare-for-the-big-on/